Eircom stealing broadband subscriptions

recycler1

APM wrote: »

Your broadband hardly just dropped from 7 to 1mb without changing settings?

That depends on how eircom configure their lines. The technology supports rate adaptive operation, or fixed speed. If set to rate adaptive, the modem will continually adjust the speed, depending on the prevaling line conditions. With that mode of operation it is entirely possible that the speed would drop from 7Mbit/s to 1Mbit/s, without user intervention.

dub45

recycler1 wrote: »

That depends on how eircom configure their lines. The technology supports rate adaptive operation, or fixed speed. If set to rate adaptive, the modem will continually adjust the speed, depending on the prevaling line conditions. With that mode of operation it is entirely possible that the speed would drop from 7Mbit/s to 1Mbit/s, without user intervention.

I think the point that is being made is not so much about the speed drop as actually getting connected to the Eircom network without changing the password from the BT one to an Eircom one.

lucernarian

recycler1 wrote: »

You are misnformed. My origional post was correct.

That's fair enough, but could you explain or back up why this is the case? 8 mbps is the max that ADSL 1 supports anyway. All exchanges that have been enabled for DSL by eircom offer the 7.6mbps package/whatever max package at 7 mbps or 8 mbps they now offer.

Trogdor

APM wrote: »

How did you log into eircom's broadband network with putting in a username and password + changing settings?

Your broadband hardly just dropped from 7 to 1mb without changing settings?

Tbh i have no idea, I have never gone near the settings in the router and the ISP is still reading as ESET! But BT are saying we are no longer with them and eircom are saying we ARE with them on a 1mb connection..

Sponge Bob

I think eircom accept any user and password , go to www.ripe.net, the IP is top right , copy it into the database search beside it and press go, what does it say??

recycler1

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

That's fair enough, but could you explain or back up why this is the case? 8 mbps is the max that ADSL 1 supports anyway. All exchanges that have been enabled for DSL by eircom offer the 7.6mbps package/whatever max package at 7 mbps or 8 mbps they now offer.

Firstly, its not just eircom......

Its not enough for the local line to support the max speed - though it certainly helps.

There has to be enough DSL capacity between the local exchange and the rest of the network. Outside urban areas, that is not always the case.
Say you only have two 8Mbit/s links between a local exchange and a parent exchange. That would support around 100 customers at a 20:1 contention ratio.

If only four or five of those customers were upgraded to 8Mbit/s you would quickly run into issues as they could hog the bulk of the bandwidth. Therefore, it would also be necessary to upgrade the network infrastructure, before higher speed services can be rolled out. The cost of that upgrade could be substantial, and not warranted for a small customer base.

The same issue arises regardless of speed. If you move up to 100Mbit/s access speeds over fibre, you need fibre access backhaul with aggregation switches capable of handling the traffic for hundreds of users - i.e. 40Gbit/s, and higher, switching capacity. A typical example of the hardware required is here

Its an ongoing race. As higher speed products are rolled out, early adopters get an excellent service. Then other customers join and everyone finds new applications for the additional bandwidth. The backhaul cannot support the increased demands and service slows during peak hours. Sound familiar?

lucernarian

In this case, we're talking about eircom as they provide the infrastructure that other broadband sellers use, except in the case of LLU. And eircom-based DSL is by far more available than LLU providers. Also, the situations here are dealing with eircom's network.

Anyway, exchanges don't use 8 mbps links from what I've found in historical documents or from speaking to a couple of experts in recent years. They mainly use E3 lines (34 mbps) or STM1 (155 mbps ATM traffic) or STM4 (630 mbps ATM traffic?) connections. Right now, they're replacing many of these ATM-based connections with Gigabit ethernet and 10GigE connections. Yes I know PPPoE is used for connections but the backhaul is still mainly ATM in Ireland.

What you're saying does make sense though. I just haven't seen or heard of eircom refusing a 7.6 mbps order because of contention. The line test yoke doesn't take contention into account. It wouldn't really be possible as contention varies a lot during the day and upon how many lines are being added or disconnected every day etc.

I'm pretty sure people have had to wait to get eircom broadband because there weren't enough ports for the DSL lines, but their lines still showed up as a pass. I've read about this on boards previously.

recycler1

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

In this case, we're talking about eircom as they provide the infrastructure that other broadband sellers use, except in the case of LLU. And eircom-based DSL is by far more available than LLU providers. Also, the situations here are dealing with eircom's network.

I was merely pointing out, in order to be fair to all parties, that the situation I was describing was not unique to eircom.

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

Anyway, exchanges don't use 8 mbps links from what I've found in historical documents or from speaking to a couple of experts in recent years. They mainly use E3 lines (34 mbps) or STM1 (155 mbps ATM traffic) or STM4 (630 mbps ATM traffic?) connections. Right now, they're replacing many of these ATM-based connections with Gigabit ethernet and 10GigE connections. Yes I know PPPoE is used for connections but the backhaul is still mainly ATM in Ireland.

I would be wary of "historical documents" - the backhaul networks are changing constantly.
A wide range of technologies are used and, like other countries, there is a move away from ATM.
(I used 8Mbit/s, purely for illustrative purposes.)

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

What you're saying does make sense though. I just haven't seen or heard of eircom refusing a 7.6 mbps order because of contention. The line test yoke doesn't take contention into account. It wouldn't really be possible as contention varies a lot during the day and upon how many lines are being added or disconnected every day etc.

Its difficult to be everywhere, all the time.

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

I'm pretty sure people have had to wait to get eircom broadband because there weren't enough ports for the DSL lines, but their lines still showed up as a pass. I've read about this on boards previously.

As you stated, the "yoke" doesn't factor in port availability.

lucernarian

...Ok then. You're not actually addressing the issue at hand. Eircom's test result system and what does and doesn't consider in giving an amber result.

I maintain that if someone lives beside an exchange and their new(or possibly "back with eircom") line shows up as amber, it's only down to the fact that it hasn't been properly logged in the system. Once it's measured, and when there's no fault on the line, there's nothing stopping anyone from ordering 7.6 mbps packages.

Pointing out differences in backhaul is irrelevant to a pass/fail issue with eircom, as the system is not there to account for that. Eircom sells all customers the highest speed package if their line is short enough, regardless of contention. The only issue that can over-ride that is a delay because of port availability.

recycler1

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

...Ok then. You're not actually addressing the issue at hand. Eircom's test result system and what does and doesn't consider in giving an amber result.

Not quite. I was responding to....

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

For your information, 7 mbps or 8 mbps or whatever is the max ADSL1 speed that eircom offer is available on all exchanges that have DSL enabled. Higher speeds are only available on the more recently enabled and the largest exchanges. If your line is good enough (<5 km long I think?) and it's connected to a DSL-enabled exchange, then you are automatically able to order up to 7.6 mbps.

I was explaining why the above is not always the case.

Where higher speeds are available, the max distance depends on the particular line. Factors that influence the range include the gauge of the cable, the cable dielectric, the electrical loading of the cable and the number of joints. As a rule of thumb, you'll get 25%+ greater range in a non-urban area.

Anyway, I'm signing off this forum, now. I hope that I've helped put a few myths to bed and helped raise the overall understanding. I'm not in a position to provide more detailed information, or ongoing responses. Do remember, just because something is posted on boards doesn't make it accurate. Some of the "theories" going around would put Mulder and Scully (remember them?) to shame.

I know many people in the industry, in many companies, ranging from front-line agents to technical experts. In my experience no-one sets out to mislead and perceptions of lies, stealing, etc. are due to having limited information, only.

The majority of front line agents, with all companies, are just trying to do their job. Mostly they do it well, sometimes they get it wrong. It is not that they are trying to mislead,rather, some situations require a depth of knowledge that they simply do not have. This is no different than call centre staff in any industry.

When things go wrong a friendly, non-confrontal approach can go a long way towards getting things fixed. Some of the language used on this thread, and on others on the forum, will never be helpful. Call centre staff have stressful jobs and can well do without accusations of lying.

lucernarian

What facts would these be?? Whenever I post here, it's just to help out other posters and set things straight. I'm luckily in a position where I don't have an agenda. When I talk about distance, I really mean attenuation. Eircom only give a distance "figure" by taking an attenuation reading and dividing by 12 to get line length in km. I didn't want to confuse the matter so I stuck to the real-life outcome.

What I mean is, all lines below a certain attenuation and without pairgains will be able to order 3 mbps or 7.6 mbps on eircom's system (provided the line was already tested). It's easy to see that splices, joins and cable routes are going to affect how far the "range" actually reaches. But if the attenuation is higher because of line quality issues, the test already would take that into account. Once the line states "pass", there's no stopping someone ordering whatever ADSL product they want.

I'll leave it at that too as this thread is becoming confusing to me let alone everyone else! I also think that eircom's systems need to cover for all possibilities and not leave front line staff with inexplicable results. As for that shower BT, they need to look after their customers better, on the front line and as a whole.

Trogdor

Sponge Bob wrote: »

I think eircom accept any user and password , go to www.ripe.net, the IP is top right , copy it into the database search beside it and press go, what does it say??

netname: IOLBBDSL-ESAT-2005090209
descr: Ireland On-Line Broadband Customers
remarks: For SPAM/UCE complaints, please email "abuse@esatclear.ie"
country: IE
admin-c: ESAT1-RIPE
tech-c: ESAT1-RIPE
status: ASSIGNED PA "status:" definitions
mnt-by: IEUNET-NOC
source: RIPE # Filtered

role: Esat.Net NOC
address: Unit 4029 National Digital Park, CityWest Business Campus,
address: Naas Road, Co. Dublin, Ireland.

etc

remarks: Esat Net is now part of BT Ireland.
remarks: Esat Net is the trading name for EUnet Ireland Ltd.
remarks: Also formally known as IEUnet Ireland.

lmimmfn

trogdor wrote: »

netname: IOLBBDSL-ESAT-2005090209
descr: Ireland On-Line Broadband Customers
remarks: For SPAM/UCE complaints, please email "abuse@esatclear.ie"
country: IE
admin-c: ESAT1-RIPE
tech-c: ESAT1-RIPE
status: ASSIGNED PA "status:" definitions
mnt-by: IEUNET-NOC
source: RIPE # Filtered

role: Esat.Net NOC
address: Unit 4029 National Digital Park, CityWest Business Campus,
address: Naas Road, Co. Dublin, Ireland.

etc

remarks: Esat Net is now part of BT Ireland.
remarks: Esat Net is the trading name for EUnet Ireland Ltd.
remarks: Also formally known as IEUnet Ireland.

your ISP is BT, however Eircom do own the DSLAMS so they might have tampered with your connection speed with your changes, get onto BT and tell them you've been knocked down and to reinstate your correct download/upload speed.

cuppa

feels like two different topics been talked about here. Im only intersted in the op's .

Trogdor

lmimmfn wrote: »

your ISP is BT, however Eircom do own the DSLAMS so they might have tampered with your connection speed with your changes, get onto BT and tell them you've been knocked down and to reinstate your correct download/upload speed.

I feel like i'm going round in circles here:pac: Just rang BT and got a decent guy first who actually seemed like he'd look into it and seemed to agree eircom was messing us around, I was then put on hold and got a new person who told me that on the date the phone lines had transferred to eircom, our broadband connection had migrated to Vodafone and gave me their contact number.

So i rang vodafone and they said that connection had migrated to them on that date and been cancelled on the same date and suggested i should contact with eircom. I tried BT again and was told to ring vodafone by a different person again. So BT are now transferring me to vodafone and vodafone to eircom. And yet my ISP still reads as ESET BT i'm getting more and more confused:p

Trogdor

Just another quick update, so i tried BT one last time and managed to keep the guy talking for a few mins before he sent me to vodafone again. He was very confused, but confirmed our IP address was with ESET BT and then told us to contact vodafone!!