Before considering medicine as a career READ THIS!

Jessibelle

sam34 wrote: »

as an intern, i was told by the consultant my most important function was to ensure that the consultant didnt leave his glasses at a patients bedside.

one day, when i was busy attending a cardiac arrest, he left his glasses behind him

guess who had to retrace his steps and find them? (but not before getting cursed at and told i was incompetent- despite the fact that the patient was successfully resuscitated)

Words cannot express :eek:
One of my cousin's often tells the story of how he was slammed by a consultant for missing rounds for a period of time. His 'excuse' that he was in a serious situation which resulted in the permenant loss of the use of his legs was only deemed to be valid the day he returned in his wheelchair, whereby the consultant begrudingly conceded he was possibly telling the truth as opposed to trying to scam out of rounds ..:mad:

sam34

Jessibelle wrote: »

Words cannot express

oh, and i forgot to mention that when i returned his glasses to him he condescendingly patted me on the head and said he was sure if i applied myself i would do better every other day :rolleyes:

Jessibelle

sam34 wrote: »

oh, and i forgot to mention that when i returned his glasses to him he condescendingly patted me on the head and said he was sure if i applied myself i would do better every other day :rolleyes:

Was it at this point he started singing soprano?
Despite reading all these stories and knowig a few more myself, I still want to do medicine, but now I'm worrying if I'd be able to bite my tongue for the good of my career, if someone treated me like that, I'd be fighting hard not to tell them where to get off! Does anyone know what happened if someone stood up to the consultants? Did it lead to poor marking/bad reviews/worse??

RobFowl

Jessibelle wrote: »

Was it at this point he started singing soprano?
Despite reading all these stories and knowig a few more myself, I still want to do medicine, but now I'm worrying if I'd be able to bite my tongue for the good of my career, if someone treated me like that, I'd be fighting hard not to tell them where to get off! Does anyone know what happened if someone stood up to the consultants? Did it lead to poor marking/bad reviews/worse??

No or bad referances and if they were particularly obnoxious a phone around to make sure you don't get any decent job's.

Narkius Maximus

sam34 wrote: »

oh, and i forgot to mention that when i returned his glasses to him he condescendingly patted me on the head and said he was sure if i applied myself i would do better every other day :rolleyes:

Suppose it's better than a pat on the ass!!!:D

I've seen that happen!

DrIndy

There was a consultant in a hospital I worked in who was doing a "grand round" with 10 other doctors, nurse specialists, pharmacists who stopped in the middle of the ward, sniffed hard 3 times and said to one of the female SHOs "Are you menstruating?"

**** you not. This was within the last 4 years as well.

Narkius Maximus

That wasn't in a southside dublin hospital by any chance? One consultant there who was notorious-he was rudely eccentric. The stuff he used to do....... He is my role model for being a dirty old man some day!

Jessibelle

HOW do they get away with this? If it was any other industry they'd be hauled in front of the courts!!

anotherlostie

And just in case anyone is thinking it, it's not just the men who know how to behave appallingly! I've heard some stories in relation to one of the Dublin maternity hospitals.

But surely if a consultant is known to be a complete pr*ck, then would others in similar positions take anything they say as kosher?

tracker-man

I'm in Leaving Cert year, have been aiming for medicine... Even recently before reading this, I was thinking to myself, why not go for a job that will pay higher sooner, only have to work 9-5 and not have to put up with the not so nice sides of becoming a doctor, and reaching the top of the ladder in it. I didn't realise the "not so nice" bits of becoming a doctor were quite as sh**ty as mentioned here. Why should I go for this career if what you say is a true representation of it, And if it is likely I will experience the same??

On the other hand I would love to be a doctor, I am really suited to the work.

I gotta weigh up the pros and cons, medicine is something I would love, but I am capabable of achieving a good leaving cert, I want a quality of life.

So now I've a decision to make.... medicine, or not... C-A-Oh God.

sam34

DrIndy wrote: »

There was a consultant in a hospital I worked in who was doing a "grand round" with 10 other doctors, nurse specialists, pharmacists who stopped in the middle of the ward, sniffed hard 3 times and said to one of the female SHOs "Are you menstruating?"

**** you not. This was within the last 4 years as well.

FFS thats beyond ridiculous :eek:

2Scoops

tracker-man wrote: »

Even recently before reading this, I was thinking to myself, why not go for a job that will pay higher sooner, only have to work 9-5

What is this magical job of which you speak?? :pac:

Piste

Jessibelle wrote: »

Was it at this point he started singing soprano?
Despite reading all these stories and knowig a few more myself, I still want to do medicine, but now I'm worrying if I'd be able to bite my tongue for the good of my career, if someone treated me like that, I'd be fighting hard not to tell them where to get off! Does anyone know what happened if someone stood up to the consultants? Did it lead to poor marking/bad reviews/worse??

Yeah I'm the same, I'm ok at holding my tongue and being obedient, but under a lot of stress with little sleep (I do very badly on little sleep, like I get properly physically sick and shaky if I don't sleep enough) I might just crack and tell the consultant where to go.

Has anyone thought of documenting the bullying by consultants? Like sneaking in microphones for evidence? Would your career really be ruined if you took a case of bullying against your consultant with ample evidence?

nesf

2Scoops wrote: »

What is this magical job of which you speak?? :pac:

Backbencher Opposition politician. Less hours than 9-5 and your chance of holding onto the job increases for every mistake made by the other guys. Recession proofed so long as you can manage to stay out of Government long enough.

Vorsprung

Piste wrote: »

Has anyone thought of documenting the bullying by consultants? Like sneaking in microphones for evidence? Would your career really be ruined if you took a case of bullying against your consultant with ample evidence?

Wouldn't be ruined, you'd just have to move abroad!

tracker-man

2Scoops wrote: »

What is this magical job of which you speak?? :pac:

There are some niche areas where a nice job like this can be found if you look for it! Lucky for me I am doing my leaving cert at the moment and have the opportunity to plan my future career

2Scoops

tracker-man wrote: »

There are some niche areas where a nice job like this can be found if you look for it! Lucky for me I am doing my leaving cert at the moment and have the opportunity to plan my future career

Seriously, like what??

jumpguy

I'm hoping to do medicine myself, but my God...this thread is making me think. I'm not disappointed, I'm ****ing angry. Minister of Health...HSE...the entire system is broken and cruel. I think everyone knows somebody who nearly died in a hospital due to some incompetance (not trying to rile doctors who do a fine job in Irish hospitals here, after 24 hours without sleep, I can't even do basic addition, never mind diagnose a patient's illness.)

This is incredible. Someone must do something soon...this is like something just waiting for a brave whistle-blower. Consultants...how an Earth can one human, well educated, well paid do that to another colleague?

Surely the solution to this is to get your medicine degree, do an internship in an Irish hospital, and then get the **** out of here as fast as you can? Why isn't every doctor doing this?

Not only is doctor's and other hospital workers quality of life at stake here, but also patient safety and comfort. I compell anyone in a position to do something about this to do it. Please, this is insane. Doctors should be among the most rewarded people in society, not ****ing fat-cat politicians, or high-up pen pushers.

jumpguy

jumpguy wrote: »

I'm hoping to do medicine myself, but my God...this thread is making me think. I'm not disappointed, I'm ****ing angry. Minister of Health...HSE...the entire system is broken and cruel. I think everyone knows somebody who nearly died in a hospital due to some incompetance (not trying to rile doctors who do a fine job in Irish hospitals here, after 24 hours without sleep, I can't even do basic addition, never mind diagnose a patient's illness.)

This is incredible. Someone must do something soon...this is like something just waiting for a brave whistle-blower. Consultants...how an Earth can one human, well educated, well paid do that to another colleague?

Surely the solution to this is to get your medicine degree, do an internship in an Irish hospital, and then get the **** out of here as fast as you can? Why isn't every doctor doing this?

Not only is doctor's and other hospital workers quality of life at stake here, but also patient safety and comfort. I compell anyone in a position to do something about this to do it. Please, this is insane. Doctors should be among the most rewarded people in society, not ****ing fat-cat politicians, or high-up pen pushers.

Yeah, I've been following this thread and the Two Weeks on a Trolley blog. I haven't been put off med, because I still find how the human body works and all fascinating, and want to work with people. But the horror stories of 72 hour shifts, unpaid overtime, bullying from superiors etc etc makes me so angry. No one should be subject to such downright inhumane working conditions. It's shocking that this is allowed to go on, but from my experiences with the Irish Health Care system I don't know why I'm suprised.

Med's still what I want to do, but I would seriously consider emigrating if the situation here hasn't improved by the time I'd graduate. At the end of theday, doctors deserve a life just as much as anyone else. Long term leep deprivation like that can cause serious health problems, I'm just so mad that basic human rights aren't being met here.

Diabhal_Glas

jumpguy wrote: »

This is incredible. Someone must do something soon...this is like something just waiting for a brave whistle-blower. Consultants...how an Earth can one human, well educated, well paid do that to another colleague?

Huge drop in applications for junior doctor posts

EITHNE DONNELLAN Health Correspondent

A HUGE DROP in applications for junior doctor posts in hospitals across the State which fall vacant in January has been blamed on the fact that many young doctors are now emigrating.

The Irish Times has seen internal HSE documents which show that applications for junior doctor posts which need to be filled by the new year have fallen by more than half, when compared to a year ago, at some hospitals. Both large and small hospitals are affected and the recruitment problems may result in “significant gaps in service areas” next year.

Many junior doctors in training rotate jobs every six months and a review of applications lodged for those jobs falling vacant in January 2010, now that the deadline for applications has passed, shows there has been: a 59 per cent drop in applications for NCHD (non-consultant hospital doctor or junior doctor) posts at Tullamore Hospital; a 56 per cent drop in applications for posts at Connolly Hospital in Dublin; a 56 per cent drop in applications for posts at Cavan/Monaghan hospitals; a 48 per cent drop at Waterford Regional Hospital; a 45 per cent drop at Cork University Hospital and a 35 per cent drop at Dublin’s St Vincent’s hospital.

Data from all hospitals is not yet available.

The HSE’s national medical manpower managers have discussed the issue at recent meetings and “are very concerned at the reduction in applications for NCHD posts in our hospitals”, an internal HSE document states.

The memo from one HSE official to another warns: “This substantial reduction in the number of applications will lead to major difficulties in filling these posts”.

It adds: “Where we can not directly fill posts, we will have to rely on medical recruitment agencies that are high cost and are not the solution to this problem.”

It goes on to state that the posts proving most difficult to fill are general surgery, anaesthetics, emergency medicine, radiotherapy, oncology, plastic surgery, cardiothoracic and orthopaedic surgery.

A separate letter states “it is likely that we will have significant gaps in service areas” as a result.

Dr Anthony O’Connor, a member of the NCHD committee of the Irish Medical Organisation, said the talk among junior doctors in all hospitals now was how quickly they could get out of Ireland. “There has been huge turbulence over the last 12 months for NCHDs,” he said, adding that their contracts had been unilaterally changed before the High Court intervened and then there had been a Labour Court recommendation on new working hours and rosters to ensure compliance with the European working time directive which states they should not work more than 48 hours a week.

He claimed the reduction in their hours was being introduced in a “ham-fisted” way.

“Earlier this year when that happened [contracts were changed], I was getting e-mails from recruitment companies in Australia and New Zealand saying we have heard about the difficulties people are having in Ireland and offering jobs,” he said.

“Every NCHD in Ireland would know at least five to 10 people that would have gone to Australia or New Zealand in the last few months,” he added.

Some NCHD posts would usually be filled by doctors trained overseas but Dr O’Connor said: “I think word has gotten out that Ireland is not as attractive a destination as it used to be for doctors any more.”

A HSE spokesman said that while there have been reductions in NCHD income arising from reductions in working hours related to the implementation of the European working time directive and the public sector pension levy, the HSE “anticipates that the new NCHD contract to take effect from 1st January 2010 will be attractive to those interested in working in Ireland”.

He added that while the HSE faced a challenging recruitment environment, the numbers of stand-alone NCHD positions to be filled should be fewer in January than in the previous year.

There are about 4,000 junior doctors working in Irish hospitals. The HSE plans to reduce their numbers by extinguishing two NCHD posts for each new consultant employed.

NCHDs are currently seeking pay rises of between 25 and 40 per cent to make up for loss of overtime since their hours were cut. The HSE has been paying €250 million a year in overtime to junior doctors.


'Now I do not want to come back to a system in chaos'

DR PATRICK O’Sullivan (25) began working as a junior doctor on July 1st this year at Tallaght hospital, Dublin, after graduating from Trinity College.

He plans to go to work in Australia once his intern year has been completed in six months time.

Several of his friends are also travelling, he says.

Dr O’Sullivan stresses that many junior doctors travel overseas to get experience during their careers but what made his mind up for him was the multitude of changes introduced for junior doctors in the healthcare system here in recent months.

“What made me decide to go was the kind of atmosphere that’s been created by these attempts by management to put the 48-hour week in place without employing extra staff,” Dr O’Sullivan says.

“We are expected to have the same productivity in less hours, which is unrealistic and unfair and it’s left a bad taste in the mouth,” he adds.

Many junior doctors had to work longer than the permitted 48 hours a week to ensure patients were cared for and there was then uncertainty over whether they would be paid for these extra hours.

“I’m going to be earning less in Australia, but it’s more the atmosphere and having a system that is adequately staffed and resourced and where you are not made to feel you are expected to compress all of your work into a shorter timeframe,” he says.

“In the beginning I was looking at going for 12 months but now I do not want to come back to a system that is in chaos and where you feel like you are under attack for doing your job.”

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/1128/1224259620164.html

sam34

^^^ reap what ye sow, and all that


the hse has been treating nchd's like crap for years, and now its coming back to bite them on the ass

Narkius Maximus

Aye.It will be awful interesting to see the July intake for medical and surgical sho jobs. I know rcsi had difficulties last year and I've no doubt it wil be compounded this year. That very recent high court settlement of not working more than one 24hr shift in a 1/5 rota just ain't going to cut the mustard and if you are on the trainee register you cannot do your own locum so it's going to get quite sticky!

Of course, the cynic in me sees the this whole debacle getting swept under the carpet with fudged figures etc.

Bring on July!!

Oh and God help the interns-any one hear about that hse centralised matching scheme for intern spots? If you don't nail an honours you could end up anywhere!!!? Bless all your cotton socks!

kev1

Is the outlook/current situation as bleak for wannabe gps?

Narkius Maximus

kev1 wrote: »

Is the outlook/current situation as bleak for wannabe gps?

TBH, I don't know. I do know a lot my mates are trying to run to GP, difficult ith every programme is that it can be difficult to get on. But there are supposed to be changes as recommended by the Competition authority, i.e. that training all ready done as an sho/reg in some specialities i.e medicine/paeds should count towards your GP experience so that onw would not have to repeat that rotation as a GP trainee. Also increased numbers going through etc etc...

leesmom

you think its bad for the med students, im a student midwife and we are like **** on their shoes the way they treat us, im only in first year and strongly considering dropping out , not sure id be able to deal with it for my entire career

Carsinian Thau

leesmom wrote: »

you think its bad for the med students, im a student midwife and we are like **** on their shoes the way they treat us, im only in first year and strongly considering dropping out , not sure id be able to deal with it for my entire career

But it won't be for all your career. Eventually you'll become senior and have the choice to behave that way or not.

Sorry to hear about the ridiculous pressure you're under though.

dissed doc

OK just being straight up, as a reasonably senior NCHD I make around 90-100k/year. In the past 18 months, I have seen my net salary drop to a take home pay of around €1800/2 weeks. That is due to the pension levy, higher prsi, income levies, etc., along with cancelling of other things like degree payments.

Roughly speaking, despite it being a large salary, I now make substantially less, despite doing the same job and hours, and am paying an average of around 53-54% in taxes. each paycheck per 2 weeks has been cut by around €300-400. Given a net salary of around 45-50k into my hand, I'd be better off on the dole with 3 or 4 kids, make the same income and have all my days free.

YOU ARE THE WEAKEST LINK GOODBYE

Diabhal_Glas

dissed doc wrote: »

OK just being straight up, as a reasonably senior NCHD I make around 90-100k/year. In the past 18 months, I have seen my net salary drop to a take home pay of around €1800/2 weeks. That is due to the pension levy, higher prsi, income levies, etc., along with cancelling of other things like degree payments.

Roughly speaking, despite it being a large salary, I now make substantially less, despite doing the same job and hours, and am paying an average of around 53-54% in taxes. each paycheck per 2 weeks has been cut by around €300-400. Given a net salary of around 45-50k into my hand, I'd be better off on the dole with 3 or 4 kids, make the same income and have all my days free.

YOU ARE THE WEAKEST LINK GOODBYE

Thats shocking, how many hours a week do you work on top of that?

Any Idea if you would be in a lot better a position in Australia/ NZ / USA?

Carsinian Thau

Diabhal_Glas wrote: »

Any Idea if you would be in a lot better a position in Australia/ NZ / USA?

It probably would but things aren't always so simple. That poster could have a spouse or children, other family commitments etc. that make moving impossible or at the very least, unduly difficult.

nesf

dissed doc wrote: »

Given a net salary of around 45-50k into my hand, I'd be better off on the dole with 3 or 4 kids, make the same income and have all my days free.

YOU ARE THE WEAKEST LINK GOODBYE

Dole + Wife + 3 kids = approx 21K

I don't think the Medical Card + Back to School Allowance etc would make up the rest of the 29K needed to equal your take home. I'd be the first to say our benefits system is too generous versus the lower paid careers but equal to a Senior NCHD's take home? Seriously, get some perspective ffs.