The Rafa Thread (READ THE OP CAREFULLY)

kida

Rafa when he joined - he looks 20 years older now

He's gone if Liverpool don't make top 4 imo and I'd imagine if the owners had sense (which is unlikely) that it's written in his contract that his payoff would be substantially less if they didn't make top 4.

That's why I think he will be given until May. I don't think any caretaker boss could do too much in the last few months of the season unless Rafa has lost the dressing room.

Unless, we lose to Stoke and Spurs. Then I think he will be forced out.

Dont be at yourself

Jimmyboss wrote:

Benitez is really only holding onto his job by virtue of his European record, but let's have a look at that.......2005 Champions League Final, Milan going in at half time 3-0 up, thinking game over, didn't come out to play in the second half, fair enough Liverpool took advantage, but let's be fair, there was a huge amount of luck involved.

This is brilliant. Slate Rafa's achievements in the CL based on 45 minutes of football against a vastly superior AC Milan squad? What about our wins over the likes of Barca, Inter, Real, Juve?

This is a manager who deemed Traore and Kewell good enough to start the game???

Tell me, wise one, who of the 2004/2005 Liverpool squad would you have started at left-back in the final?

redzerdrog

people are forgetting that is was a bloody cup game the other night we are still in same position in the league as we were at the end of december. while our form this year has been terrible beyond belief we should really be no where near getting top 4 but the reality is we are only 5 points behind city in 4th, 5 bloody points:eek: 4 points behind spurs who we play next week, 2 points behind the mighty villa, all these teams that people are banging on about have improved so much while liverpool stood still.

The reality is while yes man city have improved the others are still about the same level and are playing just about as well as they can, liverpool are playing no where near what they can and are still only 5 points off 4th with our next 4 games against stoke, spurs, wolves and bolton. while our form this season as a whole was brutal over the last 6 league games we have 10 points, it is the same as man utd and 1 point more than chelsea.

so forgive me if i am not blowing the head gasket and believing the media that we are going to to miss out on europe and rafa should be sacked and gerrard doesnt want to play for him and any other bollox tablaid papers want us to believe. I have faith in rafa that he will pull us out of this.

scudzilla

I have a question about this 15-20 mill payoff he would get if fired.

If they fired him this week and paid him the cash, he then walks into another job in June will he have to pay some of the cash back??

I'm sure i heard something like this happen some years ago, a manager got fired, they paid him comp then he got anopther job and had to give some back

IMO though Rafa's doing an awesome job and should be allowed to fulfill his contract

scudzilla

scudzilla wrote: »

I have a question about this 15-20 mill payoff he would get if fired.

If they fired him this week and paid him the cash, he then walks into another job in June will he have to pay some of the cash back??

I'm sure i heard something like this happen some years ago, a manager got fired, they paid him comp then he got anopther job and had to give some back

:eek:

Please tell me you are not being serious.

Please.

event

scudzilla wrote: »

I have a question about this 15-20 mill payoff he would get if fired.

If they fired him this week and paid him the cash, he then walks into another job in June will he have to pay some of the cash back??

I'm sure i heard something like this happen some years ago, a manager got fired, they paid him comp then he got anopther job and had to give some back

IMO though Rafa's doing an awesome job and should be allowed to fulfill his contract

i said this before on the liverpool thread

liverpool will not have to pay him the entire length of his contract

usually there is a compensation fee agreed in contracts if a contract is terminated early

or the club will continue to the pay the manager until he gets another job

Liverpool will not have to pay benitez the entire amount of his contract if he were sacked

givyjoe81

bayviewclose wrote: »

They may have been top four material under Houllier initially but we were not doing well in Europe (bar the UEFA cup final). Again look at our record under Rafa in Europe. Two champions league finals and another semi final. Yeah I would Rafa to take us to the next level (and that isn't looking likely at the moment0 but again Ill say that when you combine our record in Europe along with top four finishes he has been our most successful manager since Dalglish

You'd swear that was some sort of Herculean achievement...!! Who have we had since Dalglish..Lets see, Souness, the worst Liverpool manager in decades, if not ever. Then Roy Evans, won a league cup, thats it, then Houlier who faired slight better and has actually won more trophies and has also a second place finish under his belt (i seem to remember, we blew a decent lead one year).

scudzilla

rarnes1 wrote: »

:eek:

Please tell me you are not being serious.

Please.

Yes, problem???

Iago

redzerdrog wrote: »

people are forgetting that is was a bloody cup game the other night we are still in same position in the league as we were at the end of december. while our form this year has been terrible beyond belief we should really be no where near getting top 4 but the reality is we are only 5 points behind city in 4th, 5 bloody points:eek: 4 points behind spurs who we play next week, 2 points behind the mighty villa, all these teams that people are banging on about have improved so much while liverpool stood still.

but at this stage last season you were top of the league, 10 points clear of 5th. You were 23 points ahead of City, 25 points ahead of Spurs, & 7 points ahead of Villa.

So that's a 28/29/12 point shift. That's massive at the halfway point in a season, clearly they have improved greatly this year, and people saying that it's the case are correct. There's no doubt that all of the top 4 are performing worse this year than last, but the issue is that of the Top 4 managers Rafa seems to be having the hardest time getting his team playing the way they should.

scudzilla

scudzilla wrote: »

Yes, problem???

So he will have to pay some money back if he secures another job soon after a possible sacking?

Sounds like bs to me. I apologise if I'm wrong.

scudzilla

rarnes1 wrote: »

So he will have to pay some money back if he secures another job soon after a possible sacking?

Sounds like bs to me. I apologise if I'm wrong.

I'm sure i'm right, i think some manager got sacked, took the club to a tribunal for his compensation, but in the meantime he got another job so the tribunal ruled that he was only entitled to compensation up until he started a new job.

Can't remember who it was though

Now if they fire him and he decides to spend the next 5years sitting on a beach then it'd be the full amount

Iago

scudzilla wrote: »

I have a question about this 15-20 mill payoff he would get if fired.

If they fired him this week and paid him the cash, he then walks into another job in June will he have to pay some of the cash back??

I'm sure i heard something like this happen some years ago, a manager got fired, they paid him comp then he got anopther job and had to give some back

This can happen, although it's rare.

Far more likely that they would instigate some type of "gardening leave" period where they would continue to pay him but block him from working anywhere else. Similar to what's happened to Megson at Bolton.

Dublin_Gunner

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

Tell me, wise one, who of the 2004/2005 Liverpool squad would you have started at left-back in the final?

I know this wasn't directed at me but, Riise.

givyjoe81

rarnes1 wrote: »

So he will have to pay some money back if he secures another job soon after a possible sacking?

Sounds like bs to me. I apologise if I'm wrong.

Im taking a logical guess at answering this one but... imagine terminating someone's contract and paying them off for the three remaining years, i.e. til 2013.. Why on earth should they not be able to recoup money if the chap ends up in paid employment by lets say august 2010. The point is to compensate him for losing his job, if he gets another then well, less compo needed. Complete guess though.

astrofool

The compensation will be set in his contract, and will specify if taking another job will effect the compensation or not.

It was a ridiculous contract to give a manager, and Liverpool will pay for it.

Jimmyboss

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

This is brilliant. Slate Rafa's achievements in the CL based on 45 minutes of football against a vastly superior AC Milan squad? What about our wins over the likes of Barca, Inter, Real, Juve?



Tell me, wise one, who of the 2004/2005 Liverpool squad would you have started at left-back in the final?

Far be it from me to denigrate the famous victory, just that circumstances favoured Liverpool in the second half, Milan mistakenly thinking that the job was done, not forgetting Shevchenko's incredible miss.

What about Riise at left back, with Hamaan or Biscan in midfield??

It just seems to me that Benitez got too much credit for that win, not taking away from the actual achievement.....but that's only my opinion......:D

Bandit12

redzerdrog wrote: »

people are forgetting that is was a bloody cup game the other night we are still in same position in the league as we were at the end of december. while our form this year has been terrible beyond belief we should really be no where near getting top 4 but the reality is we are only 5 points behind city in 4th, 5 bloody points:eek: 4 points behind spurs who we play next week, 2 points behind the mighty villa, all these teams that people are banging on about have improved so much while liverpool stood still.

The reality is while yes man city have improved the others are still about the same level and are playing just about as well as they can, liverpool are playing no where near what they can and are still only 5 points off 4th with our next 4 games against stoke, spurs, wolves and bolton. while our form this season as a whole was brutal over the last 6 league games we have 10 points, it is the same as man utd and 1 point more than chelsea.

so forgive me if i am not blowing the head gasket and believing the media that we are going to to miss out on europe and rafa should be sacked and gerrard doesnt want to play for him and any other bollox tablaid papers want us to believe. I have faith in rafa that he will pull us out of this.

Agreed. The amount of dignity and humility Benitez shows is incredible. He is being lambasted from every single corner, yet he is still standing tall, wanting to do the very best for LFC football club and all the fans.

Of course, actions speak louder than words, and 3 points tomorrow would be a good follow up, but Rafa, you have my eternal respect and trust, and I believe you will turn this around. It's what being a supporter is all about

ShamoBuc

Quite correct, it is always easy to be a fan when you are winning. Far harder to see through the haze that is the media hype at the moment to follow and believe he can turn it around. I believe he will.

kippy

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Quite correct, it is always easy to be a fan when you are winning. Far harder to see through the haze that is the media hype at the moment to follow and believe he can turn it around. I believe he will.

Can I just ask, what makes you believe that?
Have you seen signs in recent games to justify that?
Rafa has NEVER brought Liverpool back from the position they are in right now, obviously he never has had to.
He's got very little to "turn around" at this stage............


There is a difference between being a supporter and being completely blind to the realities of the situation at hand.

Rafa, while he may appear to be coming across as funny and he appears to be showing dignity and humilty, you only have to look at the position he is in to realise why.
1. On circa 5-5 million per annum.
2. STILL in the eyes of many fans not at fault at all for the current issues.
3. If he gets fired he is PAID until he gets a new job.
4. If he gets fired, theres enough out there in the public domain (from Rafa) for the fans and others to squarely put the blame on the owners, the players and almost all else.
5. He knows he is in a win win situation.

Maybe I am being cynical, but lets be honest, in the past few years he has blamed his own players (which the best managers tend not to do in public anyway), even mentioning names in the process. He has blamed the owners and board from Parry right up to the top (Fair enough in some instances, blamed the setup of the youth system which has since been changed and of course the usual referees etc.
He and many others should look at him and see why a LOT of the players he has right now appear to be suffering from lack of form, interest and passion.

As I also said before, even with the last few games, the performances have been nothing special and the opposition poor, even when the won some big games earlier in the season the went on to lose far "easier" games after.

Baffling stuff.

x in the city

Rafa has bad man management skills, very bad.

he has failed to get the best out of a number of signings, bellamy, hellooooo.

he ain't exactly a castaway, likewise crouch. they would die for players like that now.

I am not trolling any treads, just speaking my mind and opinion.

I would be delighted if he stays on, the chances of Everton finishing above them would increase 10 fold if they keep him. Ronnie voiced his opinion, and Mark Lawrenson said they would do well to finish in the top half without torres and gerrard, and he is not wrong either.

He has simply run out of excuses at this stage., and the worst thing is he cant say he has not been supported by the club, he has been given loads of monies but failed to deliver.

Having said that, there is the issue of who to replace him with, Hodgson for fulham would be a good manager, he is no nonsense and takes no crap and he also is sound and doesnt speak bs for post match interviews. He has worked miracles at Fulham, he got continental experience and with sufficient funds he would do even better id say.

200motels

BastardPrince wrote: »

this shows you know nothing about what rafa has done for the club, and the state of the club when houllier left and how it is now. how can you comment when you don't even know the facts?

Don't talk to me about facts, you want facts, out of CL, CC, FAPL, FACUP, and still in the losers cup, 10 losses in the last 20 games, plays probably the worst player ever to put on a shirt in Lucas, who couldn't pass water, I've been watching the Pool for near on 40 years and in all probability this is the worst squad of players we've ever had, we won't get 4th, and all ye Rafa lovers better get over that fact, 2 trophies in nearly 6 years is a joke, everyone says that last season was great, how? First is first and second is nowhere. I can't stand him, he's a cancerous growth on our club and the sooner it's removed the better for the club.

scudzilla

If i was in Rafa's position i wouldn't budge for anything, what would you guys do?

A. Resign cos people are shouting mean stuff at you and lose £20mill
B. Keep going, hoping you get fired with a £20mill payoff??

It's a no brainer for me

kippy

scudzilla wrote: »

If i was in Rafa's position i wouldn't budge for anything, what would you guys do?

A. Resign cos people are shouting mean stuff at you and lose £20mill
B. Keep going, hoping you get fired with a £20mill payoff??

It's a no brainer for me

Again lads,
He wouldnt get anywhere near 20 mill.
That is the estimated total cost of sacking him and HIS STAFF should they not get jobs until the ends of their terminated contracts with Liverpool.
If he and his backroom team get a club in a few weeks the payoff will be far less.

ShamoBuc

I do not think anyone is blind to the situation at the moment. Not wanting to sack him immediately is simply giving him the chance to prove himself in this situation. He has not been here before so why not give him the chance?
Getting a different manager at the moment is a bit like ' the grass is always greener on the other side' - sometimes it isn't!
Some people would say he cannot get the best out of the players he has. Last year saw us play some great football, score a shed load of goals and no one - NO ONE - was saying sack him.
We are in a shocking place at the moment, but I don not believe he is the root problem. There is a combination of problems. Carra, always an honest performer apologised and expects more from the players, I cannot agree more. Should it take a bollicking from Rafa to want to do your best for the pool? If it does, the players in question should take a long look in the mirror.
Others might say 'first is first second means nothing' and ' 2 trophies in 6 years' - both are very true statements but over the last 40 yrs we have had 20 years of unbelievable success and then the last 20 yrs seem to be blamed at Rafas doorstep. Not quite fair I think. Time for Rafa to prove he is capable of bringing us out of the current slumber if by the end of the season he has not, then it might be time to go. But he must be given the chance to turn things around - even with the Yanks in charge, even with little or no money, even with two of the World eleven in your squad but unfortunately hardly ever playing fully fit, even with..... give him a chance, seriously, the grass is not always greener on the other side!

redzerdrog

it does my ****ing head in time after time people saying rafa is useless and using lucas as an example. lucas cost 5 million thats right 5 ****ing million he is still young and improving he is one of the only player to play well and fight this season, he is also after getting into the brazil squad this season and is no way to blame for the current decline. people blaming lucas are idiots they either havent got a brain in there head and just jump on the media bandwagon or they havent ****ing seen a game this year. ggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

kippy

ShamoBuc wrote: »

I do not think anyone is blind to the situation at the moment. Not wanting to sack him immediately is simply giving him the chance to prove himself in this situation. He has not been here before so why not give him the chance?
Getting a different manager at the moment is a bit like ' the grass is always greener on the other side' - sometimes it isn't!
Some people would say he cannot get the best out of the players he has. Last year saw us play some great football, score a shed load of goals and no one - NO ONE - was saying sack him.
We are in a shocking place at the moment, but I don not believe he is the root problem. There is a combination of problems. Carra, always an honest performer apologised and expects more from the players, I cannot agree more. Should it take a bollicking from Rafa to want to do your best for the pool? If it does, the players in question should take a long look in the mirror.
Others might say 'first is first second means nothing' and ' 2 trophies in 6 years' - both are very true statements but over the last 40 yrs we have had 20 years of unbelievable success and then the last 20 yrs seem to be blamed at Rafas doorstep. Not quite fair I think. Time for Rafa to prove he is capable of bringing us out of the current slumber if by the end of the season he has not, then it might be time to go. But he must be given the chance to turn things around - even with the Yanks in charge, even with little or no money, even with two of the World eleven in your squad but unfortunately hardly ever playing fully fit, even with..... give him a chance, seriously, the grass is not always greener on the other side!

No one was calling for him to be sacked because ye were in the title race almost till the end but were ahead right till yer semi implosion.

It was Rafa that signed ostracised Alonso the season before last and signed Aqua to replace him.

When May comes and ye find yerselves in 5th or sixth, it may be too late for a new manager.....no CL football next year, do you think the "world class" players will hang around? And its the footing that a club such as City.Villa, Spurs or whomever gets fourth to bring in bigger players and perhaps begin a phase of replacing LFC in the "top 4".

ShamoBuc

Lucas has improved alot in the last few months, so much so that people stopped giving out about him for a number of weeks. Recently high profile players have been dire in the extreme and all the anger at Lucas should be applied to them, there are enough of them!
You must admit his work rate, tackle count etc. shows he is trying his hardest which alot of the first team at the moment are not. Carra HAS to go for EVERY ball and cannot pass straight. Insua is a stone over weight and gets under enormous pressure from championship players, Stevie is coming and going in games when he used to be dominating them - still a legend of course - Kuyt seems shattered , I could go on, but I'm pissed off enough. 3pts please tomorrow and all will be well , wellish anyway, until the next game.

kippy

redzerdrog wrote: »

it does my ****ing head in time after time people saying rafa is useless and using lucas as an example. lucas cost 5 million thats right 5 ****ing million he is still young and improving he is one of the only player to play well and fight this season, he is also after getting into the brazil squad this season and is no way to blame for the current decline. people blaming lucas are idiots they either havent got a brain in there head and just jump on the media bandwagon or they havent ****ing seen a game this year. ggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Yeah its not Lucas' fault but if yer manager hadnt replaced Alonso with a crock, Lucas may have been used more sparingly.

everdead.ie

redzerdrog wrote: »

it does my ****ing head in time after time people saying rafa is useless and using lucas as an example. lucas cost 5 million thats right 5 ****ing million he is still young and improving he is one of the only player to play well and fight this season, he is also after getting into the brazil squad this season and is no way to blame for the current decline. people blaming lucas are idiots they either havent got a brain in there head and just jump on the media bandwagon or they havent ****ing seen a game this year. ggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

How many caps did he have before he signed for you after all he couldn't of gotten a work permit without one right?

ShamoBuc

wrote:

No one was calling for him to be sacked because ye were in the title race almost till the end but were ahead right till yer semi implosion.

It was Rafa that signed ostracised Alonso the season before last and signed Aqua to replace him.

When May comes and ye find yerselves in 5th or sixth, it may be too late for a new manager.....no CL football next year, do you think the "world class" players will hang around? And its the footing that a club such as City.Villa, Spurs or whomever gets fourth to bring in bigger players and perhaps begin a phase of replacing LFC in the "top 4".

Is there a guarantee of 4th if a new manage come in ? NO
Would Gerrard and Torres leave if we do not have CL next year, I hope the wouldn't, they both love the club, don't they?
No matter where the likes of Man city finish, money talks, they can get the 'bigger' players whenever they want!

kippy

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Is there a guarantee of 4th if a new manage come in ? NO
Would Gerrard and Torres leave if we do not have CL next year, I hope the wouldn't, they both love the club, don't they?
No matter where the likes of Man city finish, money talks, they can get the 'bigger' players whenever they want!

Have you looked at recent performances and attitudes of the players in them? A new manager would at least gee them up a bit and perhaps get a lot more out of them than Rafa currently is.
May not be enough for fourth, but keeping Rafa may not either.
"love the club" - give me a break, whatever about Gerrard, not playing in the CL would defo test Torres love of the club.

They will be getting BIGGER players if they get into the CL and get that global exposure.

eagle eye

Imo the big problem with Rafa has been the formation he plays, it just doesn't inspire players. It works against the top teams most of the time but against the poorer sides Liverpool's advantage is not what it should be.

For me you play either Lucas or Mascherano against your average Premier League side, not both they don't offer enough going forward and you need players who can go forward and exploit weaker defenses when you are playing one striker most of the time. His system is far too dependent on the health of Gerard and Torres and on not conceding goals which has become far more difficult in the Premier League of late.

I don't think Liverpool are finished yet this season, I was saying the other night that I expect Rafa to be sacked but having thought more about it and read and listened to others I do think he should be given the full season and see how things turn out.

The guy has been an excellent manager for too long to be just shipped out over one bad half season. He seen a way to win La Liga with a side which had less money and nothing close to the squads of Barca and Real. He won the Champion's League for Liverpool with a team that shouldn't have been anywhere close to a final. Even the second place finish last season was remarkable with the lack of depth in that squad, although I still think they could have won it if he had a different approach against the weaker teams. The draws against Stoke and Hull cost them the league imo, games they should be winning comfortably. Its the one thing with Benitez, he doesn't seem to have learned how to beat teams that park the bus. The Villa game at Anfield this year is one that comes to mind. Villa played on the counter only and with very very few chances they scored 3 goals, while Liverpool only converted one chance with all their possession which is not uncommon for them under Rafa.

Beast ASI

Wait it out for the moment, if we're in 4th at the end of the season - Great. If not, get Hiddink in. I'm still a supporter of Rafa but with the amount of money he has had to spend, he should not be in this mess.

joe123

Racing Flat wrote: »

I think the latest injuries might be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Unfortunately. I'll be very sad to see him go. Granted things haven't gone well this year, but I'd love to see us winning a League with him there. A bit like you'd rather win a local Cup with your own friends rather than the manager bringing ringers in. For that reason I'd stick with him, but that's maybe just sentimentality. Fingers crossed it will all come good Rafa.

This actually sums up the exact way im feeling.

L'prof

Mourinho somewhat interested in job!

EDIT: Just read it there, no direct quotes!

jesus_thats_gre

deisedevil wrote: »

Are you not understanding what Mitch has been saying or are you deliberatly dodging it?

You stated that Rafa had done exceptionally well to turn Pool into a top four team. Mitch has stated that Pool were already a top four team for 8 of the ten seasons before rafa took over, so no change there.

So you think he has done exceptionally well in the EPL to do the exact same as his predeccessor.

It's a valid point but you need to consider who and what the pedidree of competion were for 3rd or 4th place at the time?

Was the calibre of the top 10 teams 10 years ago similar to those now when compared to the top teams?

Was there, at the start of the season anyway, 4 teams that were considered genuine contenders for the league?

Was there the likes of City or Spurs who have managed to outspend the biggest clubs in the league over the past few seasons?

There probably was in the 80's but I can't remember there being anywhere near this level of quality (in terms of financial backing, stability and quality manahers) in the league since the inception of the Premier League.

Achieving 4th place now is a more significant achievement to achieving 4th place 10 years ago in my opinion.

Mitch Connor

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

It's a valid point but you need to consider who and what the pedidree of competion were for 3rd or 4th place at the time?

Was the calibre of the top 10 teams 10 years ago similar to those now when compared to the top teams?

Was there, at the start of the season anyway, 4 teams that were considered genuine contenders for the league?

Was there the likes of City or Spurs who have managed to outspend the biggest clubs in the league over the past few seasons?

There probably was in the 80's but I can't remember there being anywhere near this level of quality (in terms of financial backing, stability and quality manahers) in the league since the inception of the Premier League.

Achieving 4th place now is a more significant achievement to achieving 4th place 10 years ago in my opinion.

so what if the caliber of the sides of the top four sides was different 5 or ten years ago - Liverpool have maintained position in the league in comparison to everyone else.

Leeds managed to outspend some for a while. As did Blackburn and Newcastle in their time. Spurs have always spent good amounts.

The fact is, Liverpool consistently finished top 4 before Rafa. Rafa getting them a top 4 place consistently is not new for them nor reason to call it an exceptional job done.

Mr. Incognito

Liverpool supporters are being very very unfair imo.

Rafa has had his hands tied in the transfer market with no money in comparison to the other big 4. He has had some succsess and some failures in the transfer market but heck all managers have- show me one manager who has never signed a duck- Ferguson has a list a mile long of flops. In addition he has only recently been given full control with tinkering from the chairman.

He has spent a lot on the academy and it's only a matter of time before these young players come through.

Has anyone copped the fact that if Benetiz goes- Torres will most like walk out in the summer too?

In short the man has worked miracles- with all that nonsense last season he still almost won you the title and now you want to sack him after Tottenham AND City spent a fortune to break into the top 4. I think Liverpool fans are in denial. If you can't afford to keep your best players or replace them you are going to drop in the premiership. That's what's happening. No point blaming the manager. He can only build a fire with the sticks he has at the moment.

I do admit I find his tactics baffling at times but I'm not a premiership manager and there are too many "experts" lurking on boards and in bars that wouldn't know one end of a training cone from another when it comes to tactics and repeat sky sports commentry verbatum.

I think he should be given the chance to finish the season and the anger should be directed at the two American clowns who have saddled the club with debt and couldn't give a monkeys.

jesus_thats_gre

Mitch Connor wrote: »

so what if the caliber of the sides of the top four sides was different 5 or ten years ago - Liverpool have maintained position in the league in comparison to everyone else.

The fact is, Liverpool consistently finished top 4 before Rafa. Rafa getting them a top 4 place consistently is not new for them nor reason to call it an exceptional job done.

Do you really not see my point?

Maybe this might explain it better. Do you think it is harder for United to win and be dominant in the league now than it was when AF won his 3rd, 4th or 5th titles?

While Liverpool have remained 3rd or 4th, the quality of 1st and 2nd has sky rocketed in quality and the the following pack are now actually competitive. Maintaining 3rd/4th place is an achievement in itself.

Mitch Connor

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Do you really not see my point?

Maybe this might explain it better. Do you think it is harder for United to win and be dominant in the league now than it was when AF won his 3rd, 4th or 5th titles?

While Liverpool have remained 3rd or 4th, the quality of 1st and 2nd has sky rocketed in quality and the the following pack are now actually competitive. Maintaining 3rd/4th place is an achievement in itself.

but all you are saying is that he has improved liverpool at the same rate everyone else has improved. that is not exceptional.

jesus_thats_gre

Mitch Connor wrote: »

but all you are saying is that he has improved liverpool at the same rate everyone else has improved. that is not exceptional.

That is where you start comparing the the support that he has had in doing so. Ultimately, it will boil down to what he has achieved with the 80m that the club gave him to invest.

Some believe that he wasted 230 million and only signed 2 good players while others are in awe with how he managed to clear out the dead wood, build a completely new squad of his own and also sign world class talent like Reina, Mascherano and Torres with 80 million.

It boils down to what you find relevent and what you want to believe. I like to think that I can be objective, as I am sure that you do too, but I honestly cannot look at how Rafa Benitez has performed and come to the conclusion that he has performed badly.

We all know the various arguments regarding spend. I feel that if he maintained the same net spend that he had from the first three seasons for the past two seasons there would be questions to answer. Considering that virtually every penny that he spent on players in the past two seasons has been the result of player sales, I don't believe that there are any questions to answer.

d22ontour

bayviewclose wrote: »

Dont think it will ever come down to fans running him out of town.

Seems quite melodramatic.

bayviewclose wrote: »

He has done exceptionally well to bring this club to being a top four outfit

Considering your fans are the skewiest of fans when it comes to stats, surely you should know you were a top 4 team for 5 years previous to Rafa taking over ?

bayviewclose wrote: »

his record in champions league for most part has been terrific.

He is a pretty good tactician when it comes to technical games, of that there is no doubt.The problem is he won't be playing Barcelona or one of the other top 4 every other week and that is a major tactical failing of his.

bayviewclose wrote: »

Think fans were booing the players on Wednesday not Rafa.

They told you this ? When you call yourselves the greatest fans on earth and boo your own team off after topping the league which happened last season against the Hammers, well i doubt anyone can really know what the boos were for, this time, eh ?

bayviewclose wrote: »

Time for them to realize that they are being rewarded for an honour that most people would kill for.

Melodramatic bull tbh.

bayviewclose wrote: »

To put on a red shirt would be most school kids dream.

Seriously, you are making an unimaginable scenario out of nothing but a fanatical notion that, you, yourself concocted that most kids dream of playing for LFC. What are you basing this on ?

ditpoker

Mitch Connor wrote: »

so what if the caliber of the sides of the top four sides was different 5 or ten years ago - Liverpool have maintained position in the league in comparison to everyone else.

Leeds managed to outspend some for a while. As did Blackburn and Newcastle in their time. Spurs have always spent good amounts.

The fact is, Liverpool consistently finished top 4 before Rafa. Rafa getting them a top 4 place consistently is not new for them nor reason to call it an exceptional job done.

Spurs are one of the FEW teams that make a profit in the transfer market.
we buy alot, but when we sell we bring in the $$$. Berbatov / Carrick?

leninbenjamin

ditpoker wrote: »

Spurs are one of the FEW teams that make a profit in the transfer market.
we buy alot, but when we sell we bring in the $$$. Berbatov / Carrick?

Profit? Spurs 5 year net spend is around £15m p.a., slightly less than Liverpool's but not by much.

Mr.Nice Guy

Watching Rafa on Friday take out a piece of paper and go on about his facts before a Stoke encounter was a bit like Groundhog Day. The Sky Sports News people noted it too I noticed. With Babel's 'tweets' and murmurings about dressing room unrest it would appear that he has lost the dressing room. For a season that started with such promise to wind up with him in January only realistically going for a trophy in a competition he wouldn't have wanted to be part of in the first place is a shambles. If he finishes outside the top four it's a disaster.

kryogen

if he has in fact lost the dressing room, and i am not saying i think he has yet, he is a dead man walking......

i would be very upset if he goes......best possible manager liverpool could have to me and i would hope he is there for many more seasons

Mr Alan

anyone who didn't spot that the fahcts thing was a light hearted bit of self mocking needs to get a bit of a grip tbh.

imo Rafa should get all this season, irregardless of what happens with our final league positioning, then he should get until Christmas or so next season to see how things are then. if we are till struggling at that point, then do what needs to be done.

Smegball

Mr Alan wrote: »

anyone who didn't spot that the fahcts thing was a light hearted bit of self mocking needs to get a bit of a grip tbh.

imo Rafa should get all this season, irregardless of what happens with our final league positioning, then he should get until Christmas or so next season to see how things are then. if we are till struggling at that point, then do what needs to be done.

He won't get to next Christmas if Liverpool finish 5th though, can also see Mascherano leaving after having a excellent WC.

kryogen

Mr Alan wrote: »

anyone who didn't spot that the fahcts thing was a light hearted bit of self mocking needs to get a bit of a grip tbh.

imo Rafa should get all this season, irregardless of what happens with our final league positioning, then he should get until Christmas or so next season to see how things are then. if we are till struggling at that point, then do what needs to be done.

but leaving him till next christmas, if he still hasnt turned it around would put you in the same spot as now, hard to get a top manager in at this time of year and im not a huge fan of changing managers mid season

keep him for life ftw!