The Rafa Thread (READ THE OP CAREFULLY)

therokerroar

If Liverpool's owners had the money, he'd be sacked. They obviously don't have the funds to sack him and therefore he won't be sacked.

He should do the honourable thing like say, Roy Keane did last year, and walk away himself without looking for his compensation.

He doesn't deserve a penny for what he's done at Liverpool, he won a Champions League with Gerard Houllier's team and then proceeded to create teams which failed time and time again in the quest to win the Premier League. I actually find it a minor miracle that, in 5 years, he's managed to create a side that his successor would only definitely keep 4 players from (Reina, Carragher, Gerrard, Torres) and he only signed two of those. I don't include Maxi Rodriguez as we don't know how his Liverpool career will go but if it's anything like Rafa's it will be downhill and Mascherano is as good as gone to Barcelona.

The man has been a failure and if Liverpool appointed a top class manager in the Summer, which they could easily do providing they get the ownership sorted out, they could become a serious force as opposed to the laughing stock they have now become.

But hey, let's not forget, Rafa also won an FA Cup eh? :rolleyes:

MementoMori

ditpoker wrote: »

Spurs are one of the FEW teams that make a profit in the transfer market.
we buy alot, but when we sell we bring in the $$$. Berbatov / Carrick?

Cost of current Spurs squad = £180m
Cost of current Liverpool squad = £140m
Cost of current Arsenal squad = £90m

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha.

MementoMori

kryogen wrote: »

keep him for life ftw!

+1

vincenzo1975

Here is the transfer history of benitez at liverpool. I find the limitations in the squad hard to justify when considering these. I also think his biggest downfall is choosing players that can work in a system and league that is as intensive and unforgiving as the premiership.


2004/05

£2m – Josemi: peanuts and was moved on in a swap for Kromkamp 18 months later
£1.5m – Antonio Nunez: part of the Michael Owen deal and filled a gap for a while. Peanuts.
£10.7m – Xabi Alonso: Massive success and sold for £30m+ in the summer when he wanted to leave
£6m – Luis Garcia: Massive success and sold to Athletico Madrid for £4m
Free – Pelligrino: Stop gap that allowed us to rest Sami for league games, benefitting us massively in Istanbul. Now on the coaching staff.
£6.3m – Fernando Morientes: Pretty much everyone made up when we signed him, top class, but never settled. Sold for £3m to Valencia.
£1m – Scott Carson: One the most highly rated young keepers around. Lost out through injury and signing of Reina when Dudek left the club. Sold for £3.25m.

Total bought: £27.5m

Free – Marcus Babbel: Released to Stuttgart at the end of his career.
£2.5m – Danny Murphy: Xabi Alonso signed to fill the role Murphy had in the side
£8.5m – Michael Owen: Wouldn’t sign a new contract and sold before he left on a free. He’s done nothing since that is a masterstroke with hindsight.
Free – Stephane Henchoz: Released to Celtic at the end of his career

Total sold: £11m

A total of £16.5m net spend in his first year at the club, with the vast majority of that being spent on Xabi Alonso.

2004/05 net spend: £16.5m

2005/06

£240,000 – Antonio Barragan: Kid for the future. Sold for £675,000 to Deportivo a year later.
Free – Boudewijn Zenden: Signed for nothing and released for nothing. Did a job for us.
£6m – Pepe Reina: In the top 3 or 4 keepers in the world now and still young. One of Rafa’s best signings.
£5.6m – Momo Sissoko: Brilliant for a few years, had that eye injury and sold to Juventus when his form dipped for £8.2m. Replaced by Mascherano.
£7m – Peter Crouch: One signing I did question but proved to be a great bit of business. Turned him from a laughing stock into an international. Sold for £11m.
Unkown – Miki Roque: Kid bought for peanuts. Sold again for an unknown amount.
£150,000 – Jack Hobbs: Highly rated 16yr old signed from Lincoln. Didn’t progress as hoped and sold to Leicester for a reported £1.5m, although figure not confirmed.
£190,000 Besian Idrizaj: No idea who he is
£1.5m – Mark Gonzales: Cheap player to provide back up for the left wing. Sold for £3.5m to Real Betis.
Exchange – Paul Anderson: Swapped for John Welsh. Sold for £250,000.
Exchange – Jan Kromkamp: Swapped for Josemi. Later sold for £1.75m
£5.8m – Daniel Agger: Blighted by injuries but potentially top class and great signing for the money.
£250,000 – David Martin: Young reserve keeper
Free – Robbie Fowler: Pay as you play deal and no risk involved. Scored a few goals. Released in the summer.

Total bought: £26.73

Free – Vladimir Smicer: Out of contract and released. Played a small part in Istanbul.
£3.5m – El Hadji Diouf: The best £3.5m Rafa has ever recieved.
Free – Pellegrino: Filled the gap in the last 5 months of the previous season, not good enough and released.
£2m – Alou Diarra: Sold for £2m. One of Houllier’s buys.
£2m – Antonio Nunez: Bought for £1.5m and now sold for £2m when didn’t work out.
£6.5m – Milan Baros: A Houllier signing sold at a profit. He’s done nothing since.
Exchange – John Welsh: Swapped for Paul Anderson
Exchange – Josemi: Swapped for Kronkamp.

Total sold: £14m

2005/06 net spend: £12.73m
2006/07

£6m – Craig Bellamy: Good signing and later sold for £7.5m to fund Torres deal.
£2m – Gabriel Palletta: Played a few league cup games, not good enough and sold for £1.2m
Free – Fabio Aurelio: Very injury prone but a good player when fit. Great signing for nothing.
£6.7m – Jermaine Pennant: Second choice after missing out on Alves. Ran his contract down and released. Attitude stank.
£9m – Dirk Kuyt: Has his critics, but has been brilliant for the money. 15 goals last season from wide and vital to the way we play. Ultimate pro. Great signing.
£200,000 – Nabil El Zhar: Few cameos last season and improving. Injured now. Promising still. Peanuts.
£750,000 – Astrit Ajdarevic: No idea who he is, and released on a free to Leicester.
Loan – Daniele Padelli: Reserve keeper, made one appearance and never seen again.
Undisclosed – Jordy Brouwer: Young reserve.
£2.5m – Alvaro Arbeloa: Bargain signing, great service for a few years and sold for £3.5m when running his contract down.
Loan – Javier Mascherano: Rescued from West Ham, now one of the best defensive midfielders in the world and will probably be sold to Barca this summer for a massive profit. Paid £18.6m for him a year later at end of loan deal.

Total bought: £27.15m

£200,000 – Zak Whitbread: Youngster
Undisclosed – Bruno Cheyrou: Houllier flopped, sold for a reported £1.5m.
£3m – Fernando Morientes: Didn’t work out. Cut his losses.
Free – Didi Hamann: Great servant, released at the end of his career
£675,000 – Antonio Barragan: Paid £240,000 for him.
£2m – Djimi Traore: Houllier signing and daylight robbery getting £2m for him
£500,000 – Neil Mellor: Signed as a kid and did a job for a while. Not good enough and released.
£1.75m – Jan Kromkamp: Nunez bought for £2m, swapped for him, who then sold for £1.75m. Stop gaps at minimal expense.
£525,000 – Darren Potter: Acadamy lad, not good enough and robbery getting that much for him.
£1.5m – Steven Warnock: Probably sold to cheap and looks a mistake with hindsight. Good squad player.
Free – Salif Diao: The clearout of Houllier’s flops continues.

Total sold: £10.15m

2006/07 net spend: £17m

2007/08

£5m – Lucas Leiva: Brazilian player of the year when signed. Could still go either way but a lot to prove.
Undisclosed – Krisztian Nemeth: Promising youngster currently out on loan in Athens.
£270,000 – Mikel San Jose Dominguez: Youngester plays in the reserves.
£1.8m – Sebastian Leto: Left winger signing but refused a work permit. Sold for £3m.
£20.2m – Fernando Torres: Bargain of the century
Free – Andriy Voronin: Free transfer to strengthen the squad. Plays well in Germany, garbage over here.
£5m – Yossi Benayoun: Took a while to settle but now a key player. Superb signing and an absolute bargain.
£11.5m – Ryan Babel: Highly rated dutch international. Absolute waste of space. Bad signing on reflection, but nobody knew how he’d turn out. Still got potential but he can’t be arsed.
Undisclosed – Charles Itandje: Back up keeper signed for peanuts. Now released.
£1.3m – Emiliano Insua: Youngster who is now a full Argentinian international and massive potential. Bargain.
£6.5m – Martin Skrtel: Been off form this season so far, but brilliant last year and a good signing for the money.
£18.6m – Javier Mascherano: Completion of loan deal

Total bought: £70.7m

£2.7m – Florent Simana-Pongolle: Houllier youngster sold wanting first team football.
£100,000 – Daniel O’Donnell: Kid sold
Free – Jerzy Dudek: Released at end of contract
Free – Zenden: Released at end of contract
Free – Robbie Fowler: Released at end of contract
£4m – Luis Garcia: Wanted to return to Spain. Great service.
£6m – Djibril Cisse: Houllier signing sold to part fund Torres deal.
£7.5m – Craig Bellamy: Sold at profit to part fund Torres deal
£3.5m – Mark Gonzales: Signed for £1.5m and sold when didn’t work out.
£1.2m – Gabriel Palletta: Bought for £2m but never worked out. Young defender.
£3.5m – Chris Kirkland: Houllier signing. Injury prone and wanted first team football.
£8.2m – Momo Sissoko: Great signing, good service, sold when lost his form at a profit.

Total sold: £36.7m

2007/08 net spend: £34m

2008/09

Free – Philip Degen: Garbage, but free.
£7m – Andrea Dossena: Italian international left back. Hasn’t settled. Bad signing.
£3.5m – Diego Cavalieri: Reserve keeper. Only played league cup games so far.
£1.5m – David N’gog: Young French striker. Promising.
£19m – Robbie Keane: Everyone made up when we signed him. Didn’t work out and sold back to Spurs for £16m.
£8m – Albert Riera: Spanish international. Started well but jury still out.

Total bought: £39m

£4m – John Arne Riise: Good servant but form tailed off. Snapped their hands off at £4m.
Free – Harry Kewell: Harry who?
Undisclosed – Anthony Le Tallec: Houllier youngster finally released. Fee not known.
£11m – Peter Crouch: Laughing stock bought for £7m. Great signing. Wanted first team football.
£2.25m – Danny Guthrie: Youngster from Acadamy thought not good enough.
£3.25m – Scott Carson: Injury prone and Reina now first choice. Sold at profit.
Undisclosed – Steve Finnan: Sold for a fee believed to be £1m
£16m – Robbie Keane: Didn’t work out.
Undisclosed – Jack Hobbs: Young defender that didn’t progress. Sold for believed to £1.5m.

Total sold: £36.5m

2008/09 net spend: £2.5m

2009/10

£17.5m – Glen Johnson: Big fee, but has been brilliant so far.
£17.1m – Alberto Aquilani: Injured so far but meant to be a class act. Highly rated in Italy.
£2m – Sotirios Kyrgiakos: Last minute signing to fill Hyypia’s shoes. Only money we had to spend.
£160,000 – Daniel Ayala: Young defender, played a few times this season and looked promising.

Total bought: £36.76m

£250,000 – Paul Anderson: Youngster that didn’t progess.
Free – Jermaine Pennant: Out of contract. Poor signing.
Free – Miki Roque: No idea who he is. Bought for peanuts.
£3m – Sebastian Leto: Signed for £1.8m but didn’t get a work permit. Had to sell.
£3.5m – Alvaro Arbeloa: Wanted to leave and out of contract in the summer.
£30m – Xabi Alonso: Wanted to leave. Bought for £10.7m. Great signing.

Total sold: £36.75m

2009/10 net spend: £10,000

Total Players Bought: £228,976,000
Total Players Sold: £145,100,000

Total Net Spend: £83,876,000

this info came of empireofthekop.com, to give credit where credits due.

kippy

Mr Alan wrote: »

anyone who didn't spot that the fahcts thing was a light hearted bit of self mocking needs to get a bit of a grip tbh.

imo Rafa should get all this season, irregardless of what happens with our final league positioning, then he should get until Christmas or so next season to see how things are then. if we are till struggling at that point, then do what needs to be done.

Jaysus Mr. Alan,
I really thought you had begun to see the wood from the trees.
Till next Christmas next season, even if they dont finish in the top 4?
There is not a hope in hell he will get that long (he should step down of his own accord if they dont finish in the top 4 - he did give a personal guarantee to the fans of AT LEAST a top 4 finish this season.

PHB

Lads can we avoid the transfer discussion? There are a billion threads on it already. Anyone who thinks that he's had a significantly different amount of money to spend compared to United is just flat out wrong. Some will argue that the circumstances of spending is different, which is just a disagreement that people have, and it won't be solved. Ultimately, it's been done to death.

----

I think the talk about Benetiz goes from extreme to extreme. There is no doubt, whatsoever, that he has improved the club massively. You can't compare him to Houllier and his league positions, the standards for the top 4 have jumped massively, hell the points tally required to win the league have jumped massively. Chelsea set a new standard for consistancy which United rose to. This season is the lowest standard we've seen in a while.

I think Rafa suffers from a couple of major problems.

A. He is a world-class one-match tactician. What does that mean? He's outstanding at responding to other teams weaknesses and beating them because of it. However I think that won't win you the league, becauise to win it, you need to impose your tactics on them. Barca play the same way, week-in week out.

B. He is bad in the transfer market. I don't care about the arguments, ultimately, he's just made too many **** ups. Listen, everyone can see that Fergie and Wenger have made **** ups, Fergie's has a list a mile long. But for a 3-4 year period, he was outstanding in the transfer market, which meant that the team was produced at just the right time.

Rafa's successes have come in dribs and drabs. And each year, have been plauged with absurdity. I think it's fair to say, that in the last 2 years, Rafa's transfer tactics have not improved the club in any major way.

C. Ultimately, and most importantly, last year was the peak of his team. He built up a team, got them playing well, and they came close to winning. However, last summer, the team fell apart, and were not correctly replaced. Arbeloa and Alonso leaving were replaced by Johnson and Aquiliani, who have not been sufficient replacements.
This summer now, lots of players may consider moving, Mascherano being the most likely. Now this happens to football clubs, but it means that Benetiz has to now build a new team. Mascherano-Alonso compared to Lucas-Aquiliani? I just don't think he's got the talent to do it.

Ultimately, the only reason he hasn't been sacked imo is that they still think he can get 4th. To be honest, I think he can get 4th too. 5 points off 4th place is nothing. Stoke, Spurs, Wolves, Bolton. Liverpool can win those 4 games. If they do, people will begin to re-gain hope and there's no doubt they will have gained on 4th.

However if Liverpool lose/draw two of those games, I think its time to consider whether he can get them to 4th.

PHB

Also this whole, who else would replace him crap?

This has been said all season. Nobody think Mancini is doing a good job with City? He's been there. There's always someone out there, either an established old hand or an upcoming young manager who wants to take a shot at one of hte most famous clubs in world football. If you think the lack of a budget will put all top class managers off coming to Anfield, frankly you have too low an opinion of Liverpool Football Club.

ilovelamp2000

vincenzo1975 wrote: »

Total Players Bought: £228,976,000
Total Players Sold: £145,100,000

Total Net Spend: £83,876,000

this info came of empireofthekop.com, to give credit where credits due.

A lot of those figures are incorrect btw.

Warper

I see on the BBC transfer gossip page Juventus are keeping a close eye on events at Anfield suggesting they might move for Rafa if he leaves Liverpool. As Juventus are my favourite team in Italy I hope to God that they dont - things are bad enough in Juventus already and Rafa is the last guy i want to replace Ferrara. Liverpool can keep him.

L'prof

Rosco1982 wrote: »

A lot of those figures are incorrect btw.

To be fair, unless you're actually looking at the clubs accounts, I'd say most transfer fees bandied about the place are incorrect.