Enda Kenny on the Late Late (15/01/10)

Liam Byrne

Filan wrote: »

Well an articulate person does tend to convince one that they are up for the job.

If you're swayed by that sort of thing.

Actions speak louder than words, though.

It's true that the ability to do BOTH would help, but given the choice I'd take someone who can do the job over a con-artist (which actually means "confidence artist") any day.

lugha

Filan wrote: »

Well how else can Kenny be judged, other than on what he says? It's not as though he has a track record on action. Yes a plumber who spoke with confidence would inspire confidence in me, I would also seek a reference and try to view past work. What is there to go on with Enda?.

In reality there isn't an awful lot to go on. And most of what can be used, would serve more to rule a candidate out than in. For example, you could look to see at their history in public office to see if they were corrupt or incompetent. Granted, there is little ministerial experience amongst the opposition parties but you could look at how they performed as councillors. And yes you judge them on what they say, no problem with that. But how they say it should not be important, this isn't the X factor. I don't care if Kenny grins like a Cheshire cat (unless you can offer an explanation as to why said grinning would imply a lack of ability in office). Look punting for Kenny is like punting for anybody who has never being Taoiseach before, there is a huge unknown element. But the alternative is to have perpetual FF government.

CCCP^

darc wrote: »

If someone said that FF asked the guys from anonymous to do up a Enda Kenny mask and put it on the Late Late show and performed like Enda did last night, I'd believe that.

For those trying to defend enda and say Tubridy is a FF supporter - you need to get rid of the rose tinted glasses.

Firstly, when he was announced, the response from the audience was muted. This was the same for Cowen. The difference is that Cowen answered looking at the audience and into the camera whilst Kenny ignored the audience in totality. At the end of the interview the audience were even more muted. In Cowen's cases, he got a good response when his interview was finished.

Basically, Enda is not suited to leadership and the sooner Fine Gael do something about it the sooner we can get a change in government.


So for the Fine Gael activists out there - here's 2 things you need to do to guarantee election - possibly by overall majority.

1. - Get rid of Kenny and elect someone with personality that you would be proud to tell someone in another country that he was leader of your country.

2. Stop disagreeing with every single policy implemented by the current government and get a GOOD salesperson in to manage/promote your policies. - A good saleman NEVER knocks the opposition, but shows where their product is far better than the opposition and by saying the right things allows the person themselves to decide that the opposition's product is flawed.

EG.
Some FF policies are OK - even NAMA is quite good, but NAMA should NEVER have had to happen if the economy was managed properly in the first place. This is the way FG should have approached it - agree with the solution, but remind people that it should never have happened.

Accept that other events in the world contributed to the recession, but remind people that if it wasn't for FF policies we would be out of it now just like every other western economy.


Accept other things that FF are doing - some of the small minor things. Don't knock them on everything. (hell - they didn't create the weather of the past 2 weeks, but Michael Ring (FG) seems to think they were resonsible!) But wait for a major issues and go hell for leather on them.


The chances are at next election FF will have Michael Martin as leader or Dermot Aherne. The economy will have started to grow again. There will be a new dynamic out there and unless FG can give us a forward looking & positive alternative instead of the negative, dictorial style that is currently on offer, FF will once again rule the roost.

Your news letter.

I wish to subscribe to it.

Red_Marauder

Kenny gave a terrible interview without a doubt, and I say that as a firm Fine Gael voter. There was one memorable moment where he utterly failed to back up why FG won't share power with SF. For goodness sake Enda, as complex as the truth might be, it's a one line answer. Their economic policies make no sense.

The man has a serious image problem. Someone earlier described his smile as a 'deranged grin'. He can often come across as stiff and rehearsed, making him appear insincere. Swing voters don't seem to feel that they connect with him because of what comes across as lack of personality.

In an ideal world, none of this should matter. But the voting public are a strange lot and as successful as he has been as leader, and as much confidence as I have in him as a future Taoiseach, his image is a definite liability to our electoral prospects in the future.

With Richard Bruton at the wheel, I firmly believe that FG would have won the last election.

hallelujajordan

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I'm not particularly surprised (both in terms of reality and in terms of some of your previous posts), but I am wondering why you didn't post something similar following Tubridy's interview with Mr fake, vacuous, laugh-about-corruption Ahern ?

Because, whatever you say about our ex-Taoiseach you can't accuse him of lacking charisma . . . . .

oscarBravo

Red_Marauder wrote: »

In an ideal world, none of this should matter. But the voting public are a strange lot and as successful as he has been as leader, and as much confidence as I have in him as a future Taoiseach, his image is a definite liability to our electoral prospects in the future.

In an ideal world, that would point to a requirement for a better electorate, not a leader with a better "image".

With Richard Bruton at the wheel, I firmly believe that FG would have won the last election.

Strangely enough, Richard Bruton doesn't seem to agree with you.

thebman

Red_Marauder wrote: »

Kenny gave a terrible interview without a doubt, and I say that as a firm Fine Gael voter. There was one memorable moment where he utterly failed to back up why FG won't share power with SF. For goodness sake Enda, as complex as the truth might be, it's a one line answer. Their economic policies make no sense.

The man has a serious image problem. Someone earlier described his smile as a 'deranged grin'. He can often come across as stiff and rehearsed, making him appear insincere. Swing voters don't seem to feel that they connect with him because of what comes across as lack of personality.

In an ideal world, none of this should matter. But the voting public are a strange lot and as successful as he has been as leader, and as much confidence as I have in him as a future Taoiseach, his image is a definite liability to our electoral prospects in the future.

With Richard Bruton at the wheel, I firmly believe that FG would have won the last election.

TBH I really don't like Richard Bruton. However I respect his knowledge and he at least knows where he stands but as a person he doesn't come across as likeable.

Enda's problem is I don't know what he stands for as a person. He doesn't seem to have any ideals of his own and just seems like he a blank canvas that thinks what ever he thinks the public wants him to think.

Now almost all politicians are like that in some way or other but it seems to be the only thing we learn about Enda Kenny when he gets interviewed.

Now I'll still most likely vote FG in the next election (at least it won't be FF bar some miracle party transformation happens) but this issue needs to be tackled and the people around him don't seem to be able to get this across to him or are too much of yes men to admit to him that he even has a public image problem.

Liam Byrne

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Because, whatever you say about our ex-Taoiseach you can't accuse him of lacking charisma . . . . .

Actually, you can, depending on the definition that you use

personal attractiveness that enables you to influence others

Source: http://www.wordreference.com/definition/charisma

He might have influenced others, but there's nothing attractive / appealing about him.

syklops

1. - Get rid of Kenny and elect someone with personality that you would be proud to tell someone in another country that he was leader of your country.

I think the whole personality thing has been done to death on this thread. Bertie had the biggest personality in Europe. I even had a pint with him once, and had some craic, but if you choose the person who is most likeable to run the country then you are asking to be lied to.

As for the people saying why doesn't Enda step aside and let Richard Bruton lead the party. I will tell you why. That would be a very bad decision if he were to do that, because Richard Bruton is an Economist.

And before anyone asks, no Im not a member of FG.

As well as having a strong leader what we really need right now is a Minister for finance, someone who, you know, has experience in Finance. Get this: The Thesis he wrote when he was doing a Masters in, you guessed it, Economics, was on Irish Public Debt. He is, I think, our dream person for Minister for Finance.

So, why does Mr Kenny not step aside and allow Richard Bruton to be leader of the party? I'll tell you why because, Enda, FG, and Ireland need Richard Bruton doing what he does best which Economics, Trade and Employment. Thats what we need right now.

Red_Marauder

oscarBravo wrote: »

Strangely enough, Richard Bruton doesn't seem to agree with you.

If he did declare himself more suitable than the present leader, he probably wouldn't be very suitable to begin with.

thebman wrote: »

Enda's problem is I don't know what he stands for as a person. He doesn't seem to have any ideals of his own and just seems like he a blank canvas that thinks what ever he thinks the public wants him to think.

Personally I don't think that is a bad thing, and I think Kenny would make a good chairman of the cabinet, as opposed to a particularly strong leader without too much interfering into his ministers' work. However, I'm not sure that most people would feel hapy with that.

ninty9er

Red_Marauder wrote: »

If he did declare himself more suitable than the present leader, he probably wouldn't be very suitable to begin with.

Didn't Kenny do just that?

Red_Marauder wrote: »

Personally I don't think that is a bad thing, and I think Kenny would make a good chairman of the cabinet, as opposed to a particularly strong leader without too much interfering into his ministers' work. However, I'm not sure that most people would feel hapy with that.

Everyone else here has been harping on about leadership, but now because Kenny can't do that what we want all of a sudden is an invisible "chairman". I'm chair of a number of things, but the role is invisible in terms of outward information. It's a purely internal role. It would be like Barack Obama saying nothing and sending out some GIS equivalent to say everything.

hallelujajordan

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Actually, you can, depending on the definition that you use


Source: http://www.wordreference.com/definition/charisma

He might have influenced others, but there's nothing attractive / appealing about him.

Maybe in your mind but you can't rewrite history . . Ahern returned FF to government three times in a row and was well regarded throughout the country. The fact that he influenced so many for so long proves that by your very definition the man has charisma. .

nesf

oscarBravo wrote: »

Or maybe - just a crazy idea here - having worked with Kenny for the past several years, he judges him on something more substantial than how he comes across on the frigging television?

Honestly, we're reducing this country to the goddamn X-Factor, and it scares the hell out of me.

Not being able to answer why he took a particular course of action is hardly X-Factor style criticism. He may be very substantial in person, he's often regarded as charismatic in person from what I've heard but worries about the ability of a politician to answer questions in an interview is hardly a shallow concern!

FlutterinBantam

To be honest , the minute I saw the brown shoes, I knew he was fooked.

Not very scientific, but there ya go.!!

Sully

Only managed to watch the interview now. I remember both the Cowen and Ahern interviews. I am a FG voter and a Enda Kenny fan. Iv met Enda personally on a few occasions and listened to various talks/speeches given by him. Iv always found him to be a nice man, honest, caring and generally down to earth. A likable character when you meet him in person IMO.

His personality would be different to both Cowen and Ahern but after the Ahern era most people seem to be looking for the Ahern type personality. I think its obvious a huge amount of people still respect and appreciate Ahern - maybe it was a case of him getting out in excellent timing. Cowen is completely different then both of them but was able to handle the media and TV much better - that my friends, is experience and having a huge team behind him advising.

Anyway, with regards to this interview. I found Kenny to be fairly relaxed most of the time, taking the interview with ease and giving some very good responses. He did slip up big time with the Sinn Fein question and was not able for it - a weakness Tubridy jumped on and turned the screw very tight on him. The recovery was not brilliant but just about did the job. He walked into that himself. Should have focused on party policies and not the north/republican business. Yes we all may feel it (laugh at the audience for not agreeing with Kenny - I don't see you guys voting them in either!) and in some ways there is a general "SF? No way" feeling down here. We have a different attitude to them then they do in the North, right or wrong, its how it is. Tubridy was making him squirm - both made themselves like total idiots and the audience were stupid to laugh. Not the interview that I like personally, but its probably good to see our future leader getting an early grilling.

I would have just liked it Tubs mixed it up a bit. I would have assumed the people would have liked to see how FG can bring this country forward - something we badly need right now. The country is calling for a change and looking towards FG and Tubridy should have used this as part of his interview.

I can understand why Tubridy pressed hard and interrupted. For two simple reasons:-

1) Questions that were asked were of importance and he wanted straight answers and no dodging (an interview style I love). Pat Kenny never forced answers and moved aside if the politician did not want to answer. Right or wrong, I love this type of interviewing.

2) Politicians like to talk and use their air time well for them and the party. This needed to be controlled so the interviewer could question well and get the answers without delaying the whole interview. At times, Kenny needed to be stopped.

Kenny wanted to talk about other important political questions - but Tubridy it seems wanted to take a different line of questioning. Grill hard and grill well - see if any damage can be inflicted and how he handles it. That rather then a mix of grilling and seeing what Kenny/FG can offer. This was done with Cowen also. Again, I would have preferred a healthy mix - I think it would have done the country better but either way it gave an insight into the character of both politicians.

At times (mainly towards the end) Tubridy was rude in terms of his comments and responses to questions - which was very disappointing. Its not correct interview style and think it may have showed a slight swing to his FF grass roots. Those punches, I don't recall being given to Cowen.

Just a side note, the Bertie question had minor grumblings from the crowd. I think a huge part of society is in denial that this man was a major player in the problems and should be damned like the main party seems to. It could also just be hard core FF fans (or Tubridy family :P) in the crowd. A very similar question was given to Bertie in terms of Kenny but Bertie was more bold in his response.

Also, Bertie was never questioned hard at all in terms of Political and this is one character who should have been given the hardest interview considering he has a huge part to play in the mess we got in. Instead, it was more about good publicity for him.

FlutterinBantam

He might be a very nice guy, an able politician and a good Taoiseach, but he tanked that interview.

(cannot understand why he allowed Tubridy to cut him short in his answers, he just shut up abruptly instead of pressing his point)

In todays world it is not enough to be a good leader, you must demonstrate it in the media, and Enda did not do that.


I like the guy and would give him a chance, but he tanked that interview big time.

Sully

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

He might be a very nice guy, an able politician and a good Taoiseach, but he tanked that interview.

I would not go as far as saying he "tanked that interview" tbh. Considering the line of questioning he was given and the fact Tubs wanted straight answers (a rare enough interview tactic these days) - it was tough going. Kenny handled it very well and slipped in the final two questions. The Sinn Fein response was a big no-no for me tbh.

(cannot understand why he allowed Tubridy to cut him short in his answers, he just shut up abruptly instead of pressing his point)

He only did that when Tubs interrupted twice saying he would come onto it later. Tubs was interviewing - if the interviewer did not like the answers, what can you do? Everybody would say Kenny would be rude to ignore him and continue jabbering away about party policy, building a team and going for a mother of all elections. Kenny handled it well I thought and only stopped when Tubs insisted - and to be fair, I probably would have done the same.

In todays world it is not enough to be a good leader, you must demonstrate it in the media, and Enda did not do that.

Sorry, this is not the X Factor or Ireland's Got Talent. If he can put together an excellent team and make a party that will do very well for Ireland - that does it for me thanks. Look at Cowen - we have had nude paintings on him being the talk of the globe. His appearance is always being commented on and people complain he never talks enough to the media. Kenny is smart dressed, has a mayo accent (wtf like - who gives a **** if he sounds like a Deise man or a Dub!), is an excellent hard committed worker who has put together a fantastic party. He himself does fairly well in the media and I think he did pretty well (not perfect) in that interview.

Media is not the be-all and end-all folks.

GT Tdi

Turbidy seemed totally bias towards Enda Kenny i thought, did cowen get the same blast of questions? No questions Turbidy asked were about the good that he had done. Thought it was disgraceful

spadder

GT Tdi wrote: »

Turbidy seemed totally bias towards Enda Kenny i thought, did cowen get the same blast of questions? No questions Turbidy asked were about the good that he had done. Thought it was disgraceful

you obviously missed the Bertie luv-in?

Red_Marauder

ninty9er wrote: »

Didn't Kenny do just that?

I'm talking about leadership within the party, not the country.

Everyone else here has been harping on about leadership, but now because Kenny can't do that what we want all of a sudden is an invisible "chairman".

If you read what I said, I did say that I don't necessarily think most people would be happy with a chairman type of leader. Personally, it's a leadership style I would favour, but others may prefer more of an Il Duce.

I'm chair of a number of things, but the role is invisible in terms of outward information. It's a purely internal role. It would be like Barack Obama saying nothing and sending out some GIS equivalent to say everything.

When people talk about chairmanship of the cabinet I would take that to mean allowing ministers more leverage within certain parameters as according to best practice, but the buck still stops with him. Some of the most successful ministers in the history of this state were the ones who enjoyed a relative freedom of operations in their respective departments. Delegation and empowerment, just like in the business world, has a valuable place in terms of government administrations.

But like I said, many people see this as a failing and I believe his chairman style may well be part of Enda Kenny's lack of appeal. Just because I'm a FG voter doesn't mean I or others like me can't recognise the party's shortcomings.

FlutterinBantam

Just had another look and in fairness maybe 'tanked' is too harsh.

Screwed up the Sinn fein issue badly.

Brings up the famous quote made by Floyd Patterson after his first fight against Sonny Liston. Fight ended 2 minutes into the first round!!

" I was doing fine till he hit me'

Audience was very much against him , for some reason.

Filan

I really wanted to like Enda, and I'll certainly not vote for a government party in the next election (have never voted f.f. in my 13 years as a voter) ..... He just seemed so lacking in substance, he may well have it , but failed to express it. I've heard that person to person he's a lot better, a pity he didn't show it Friday.

Liam Byrne

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Maybe in your mind but you can't rewrite history . . Ahern returned FF to government three times in a row and was well regarded throughout the country. The fact that he influenced so many for so long proves that by your very definition the man has charisma. .

Oh, I forgot - it's only Ahern that's allowed to do that, aided and abetted by a PR stunt of an "interview".

Pity we can't quite compare like with like, as not even a biased hack like Tubridy could ask Kenny about writing blank cheques, running an economy into the ground and receiving unexplained monies.

If that's "charisma" then you can keep it; I'd prefer a leader with leadership qualities, morals and ethics any day.

Barname

seriously, were the audience supposed to be at a FF Ard Fheis?

just watched it now and could not but notice their baying

bizzare stuff, would they have behaved in such a manner for the disgraced ahern?

Paddy James

thebman wrote: »

I don't get the want to go for a pint with attitude.

Don't you have friends of your own to go for a pint with?

Why the hell would you want to go for a drink with a politician? What would you talk about? :-/

None of them are charismatic, you'd have to be crazy to find people that go out of their way at every opportunity to avoid making decisions but if anything good happens will be there grinning trying to take credit for it and if anything bad happens, the EU made them do it.

Irish politicians are almost all weasels and shouldn't be trusted. I wouldn't go for a pint with one. I'd buy the first round and he'd tell me he/she left their wallet at home when he came to their round.

Look what more can i say i am just making the point that the majority (not all) could relate to Bertie as when he was in the public eye he brought himself to the same level as the ordinary Joe Soap. Compare that to Endas teacher style which would scare the life out of you!

FlutterinBantam

Listen horse, Bertie would scare the life out of me a lot quicker than Enda.

Nehaxak

oscarBravo wrote: »

Honestly, we're reducing this country to the goddamn X-Factor, and it scares the hell out of me.

Well, given the party he represents having probably the highest chance of being elected next time around and him being our country's next leader, it would help if at the very least he had the composure, ability and confidence to push both himself and his politics.
Rather than coming across as he does now as a meek, limp wristed and naive imbecile who cannot perform in the slightest without his advisors and political consultants beside him to guide and craft his answers.
This is the man whom we have to depend and rely on now to lead our country ?
He'd want to get himself a nice big set of balls for a start as from what I've seen, Kenny has a mangina.

JonathanAnon

Barname wrote: »

seriously, were the audience supposed to be at a FF Ard Fheis?
just watched it now and could not but notice their baying
bizzare stuff, would they have behaved in such a manner for the disgraced ahern?

Phrased very well Barname. It was certainly a loaded audience .. It's just SUCH a pity that the audience wasnt loaded with a similarly Partisan audience the night Bertie was there.

They started heckling Kenny over a very small point about his reluctance to go into government with FF. And who are those in the audience that were heckling?.. if they were predominantly FF supporters.. FF say THEY wont go into government with Sinn Fein either. This is the party with the Ghandi of the west, Bertie Ahern, who will negotiate with Sinn Fein above a certain line of latitude but not below. In fact none of the main parties will go into government with Sinn Fein (correct me please if I'm wrong).

My point is... why were they heckling him over not being prepared to go into government with a party that they arent prepared to go into government with either. Unless, of course the audience were all actually Shinners.

Pedro K

Paddy James wrote: »

Bertie as when he was in the public eye he brought himself to the same level as the ordinary Joe Soap.

Which level is that? Because I would say Bertie would have to do a lot of climing to meet me on a moral level. Not saying I'm an angel by any means, but I'm no gangster.

Your mindset with regards to voting is dangerous man!
"I'd like to have a pint with him, feck it, run the country!"

Or you voted because a relation was in the party! Hell, that's just as bad as I'll vote FF because my daddy and his daddy did.

oscarBravo

Nehaxak wrote: »

Well, given the party he represents having probably the highest chance of being elected next time around and him being our country's next leader, it would help if at the very least he had the composure, ability and confidence to push both himself and his politics.
Rather than coming across as he does now as a meek, limp wristed and naive imbecile who cannot perform in the slightest without his advisors and political consultants beside him to guide and craft his answers.
This is the man whom we have to depend and rely on now to lead our country ?
He'd want to get himself a nice big set of balls for a start as from what I've seen, Kenny has a mangina.

Tell you what: we'll agree to differ. I'll vote for the candidates I feel have the closest thing to an ability to run the country, and the parties that have the policies I feel are most appropriate; and you can vote for TV personality of the year.