American are the real Terrorists

Wheely

digme wrote: »

Terrorist acts committed by the United States of America against a sovereign nation since WWII

1.China 1945-46
2.Korea 1950-53
3.China 1950-53
4.Guatemala 1954
5.Indonesia 1958
6.Cuba 1959-60
7.Guatemala 1960
8.Belgian Congo 1964
9.Guatemala 1964
10.Dominican Republic 1965-66
11.Peru 1965
12.Laos 1964-73
13.Vietnam 1961-73
14.Cambodia 1969-70
15.Guatemala 1967-69
16.Lebanon 1982-84
17.Grenada 1983-84
18.Libya 1986
19.El Salvador 1981-92
20.Nicaragua 1981-90
21.Libya 1986
22.Iran 1987-88
23.Libya 1989
24.Panama 1989-90
25.Iraq 1991-2002
26.Kuwait 1991
27.Somalia 1992-94
28.Croatia 1994 (of Serbs at Krajina)
29.Bosnia 1995
30.Iran 1998 (airliner)
31.Sudan 1998
32.Afghanistan 1998
33.Yugoslavia 1999
34.Afghanistan 2001-02
35.Iraq 2003 – present


My opinion:
I think Venezuela,Iran,Pakistan?,Yemen? and a few African nations are on the cards.
How can a country bomb, invade, arm, support,overthrow,kidnap,torture and kill be called anything other than a terrorist state?
Feel free to move this to the American politics forum if unsuitable.


Terrorism is the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion.

Coercion is the practice of forcing another party to behave in an involuntary manner (whether through action or inaction) by use of threats, intimidation, trickery, or some other form of pressure or force. Such actions are used as leverage, to force the victim to act in the desired way.

I wouldn't dismiss the list staright away but the OP is guilty of the same sort of linear thinking as those he'd oppose I suspect. "America are the real terrorist"-What does that even mean? They're the only terrorist? Or other terrorists are not of the "real" variety? Event the use the word terrorist, the defnition of which is highly debatable and has become almost synonomous with any guerilla resistance operating in opposition to Western interests is simplistic at the outset.

Victor

whynotwhycanti wrote: »

His list is accurate in that respect and it is well known that the US took part in these events. I'm surprised that there are so many posters who do not know of the USAs involvement in these events.

I think we are all reasonably familiar with some or most of the events listed. However, the OP is being simplistic and one dimensional in a three dimensional world.

Let us take the Vincennes incident which was basically down to negligence against a background of bias, hostility and actual violence. Not terrorism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

Grenada 1983-84 was a slightly misguided piece of real-politic to counter Soviet and Cuban power in the Caribbean

Libya 1986 was a "short or war" military reaction to military action by Libya.

Panama 1989-90 was to oust Noriega.

Kuwait / Iraq isn't limited to 1991-2002 and was hardly something the USA started.

Manic Moran

The definition of terrorism is acceptable and reasonable.

His definition of terrorism is useless. "Someone who uses terror". Even if we were to give it the loosest of meanings, to include guerilla warfare against legitimate military targets in order to gain victory by psychological and not military effect, some of the items on that list wouldn't fit it.

For example, Kuwait 1991 (Presuming (s)he means 'Iraq') wasn't anything to do with psychology. That was a good, old-fashioned, military ass-kicking with victory defined not by morale or will but instead by whose tanks were sitting on the Iraqi/Kuwaiti border and not burning.

NTM

digme

nesf wrote: »

Do not cut and paste such lists without genuinely making an effort to assess the sources for them. Korea was about as far away as you can get from a terrorist action!

digme, I want you to justify each element on the list individually.

I have no problem going through the list one by one with people who would like to take part in such a thread.Just like to say thanks to all who have participated already.If anyone is willing to dispute the list please let me know.I'd like to go through the list backwards from 35 - 1

Overheal

For all the fallacy in this thread I'll throw you all a bone and ask why you aren't discussing the Cold War or Nuclear Arms Race? I mean if you were going to muster the gall to call us a nation of Terrorists I think you would have started with that.

digme wrote: »

I have no problem going through the list one by one with people who would like to take part in such a thread.Just like to say thanks to all who have participated already.If anyone is willing to dispute the list please let me know.I'd like to go through the list backwards from 35 - 1

Go ahead im listening*. Please begin your list, 1 through 35. Well - 2, through 35. We got 1 already.

Well, im not Really listening. Im reading. And playing World of warcraft; popping in on boards when I need to take a flight between zones. But please, continue.

SLUSK

You have to understand when those islamists bombs World Trade Center it is terrorism when the Americans put Japanese people in concentration camps and nuke cities in Japan that is just acceptable "collateral damage" in the quest of defending the free world.

It is not terrorism when we do it.

digme

35 American illegally invades the sovereign country of Iraq.
Nothing to discuss here as we all know what happened.

SLUSK

digme wrote: »

35 American illegally invades the sovereign country of Iraq.
Nothing to discuss here as we all know what happened.

They had WMD! What they didn't?

digme

34 Again America the terrorists invade the sovereign country of Afghanistan.
Nothing to discuss here as we all know what happened.

digme

Victor wrote: »

Panama 1989-90 was to oust Noriega.

After the American terrorists blew up Omar Torrijos in his plane.

Manic Moran

SLUSK wrote: »

You have to understand when those islamists bombs World Trade Center it is terrorism when the Americans put Japanese people in concentration camps and nuke cities in Japan that is just acceptable "collateral damage" in the quest of defending the free world.

It is not terrorism when we do it.

The Japanese camps was something of an egregious violation of the civil liberties of American citizens, but not terrorism. The A-Bombs were part of open warfare, again, not terrorism.

After the American terrorists blew up Omar Torrijos in his plane.

You do realise that the claims for that came from Noriega after he had been captured by the Americans? Hardly the most unbiased of sources, in the circumstances.

35 American illegally invades the sovereign country of Iraq.

You can make an argument for it being an illegal invasion. You're pushing it to define it as terrorism.

34 Again America the terrorists invade the sovereign country of Afghanista

You'll be pushing it to even argue this one to be an illegal invasion, let alone terrorism.

By the way, saying "nothing to discuss" hardly qualifies as supporting argument.

NTM

Overheal

By the way, saying "nothing to discuss" hardly qualifies as supporting argument.

Pretty much. OP you're not discussing the points you've listed out, as you've Treated. You're just regurgitating the points, while Adding absolutely nothing to them.

Theres also a lovely and questionable ambiguity in the typo of your thread title: Did you mean to say America or Americans?

Nesf wrote:

digme, I want you to justify each element on the list individually.

nesf

digme your definition of terrorism borders on the absurd.

DERICKOO

sovereign wealth.
if you really want to know more i can tell you. money is made by war yes "war"

I'm home now free from governance. :P

FlutterinBantam

This thread has now descended into a zone where it would appear to be fair game to pop in and sling all kinds of 'rubbish' and off topic statements


:rolleyes:

SLUSK

Manic Moran wrote: »

The Japanese camps was something of an egregious violation of the civil liberties of American citizens, but not terrorism. The A-Bombs were part of open warfare, again, not terrorism.



You do realise that the claims for that came from Noriega after he had been captured by the Americans? Hardly the most unbiased of sources, in the circumstances.



You can make an argument for it being an illegal invasion. You're pushing it to define it as terrorism.



You'll be pushing it to even argue this one to be an illegal invasion, let alone terrorism.

By the way, saying "nothing to discuss" hardly qualifies as supporting argument.

NTM

Yes I know, it's not terrorism when we do it.

oscarBravo

I'm closing this - digme, I suggest you read posts #9 and #24 carefully. Then, if you're interested in explaining how the Korean war was an act of terrorism according to any generally-accepted definition of the word, you can PM me.