Yet another insurance Q!

Bonito · 16-01-2010 12:02pm #1

Hey lads. I remember being informed by a source (may be unreliable TBH) that whoever is registered owner of a vehicle they must be first insured and anyone else is just a named driver. Is this true? Just thinking about it becaus while I've been getting quotes for next year for my own car I have been asked a couple times who owns the vehicle. With options to choose from being spouse/partner, proposer of insurance, named driver on the policy etc. So could my dad become 1st insured on my car and I go as a named driver but with myself still as owner on the vehicle?

TBH if it's the case where 1st insured must own the vehicle I'll just change the log book over to his name, no skin off my teeth.

Tipsy Mac · 16-01-2010 12:19pm

Yes as far as I know whoever is on the logbook must be the insured, the insurance company asks if the policy holder is the registered owner, if you are not they will not insure you.

Bonito · 16-01-2010 12:22pm

I've no problems sending the logbook off and saving myself a bit of cash money

His no claims wont be effected though because I'll start another one on this policy for him.

oldyouth · 16-01-2010 1:03pm

The first rule of insurance is that you cannot insure something that is not yours. Insurers use the registration of the vehicle as a method to verify the ownership. Therefore the policyholder must register the vehicle in his/her name.

Bonito · 16-01-2010 1:05pm

What happens when you give them the reg and they say they can't find your details so they get you to list the type of vehicle, engine, spec etc etc?

TestTransmission · 16-01-2010 1:11pm

Bonito wrote: »

What happens when you give them the reg and they say they can't find your details so they get you to list the type of vehicle, engine, spec etc etc?

You list the type of vehicle,engine,spec etc

Bonito · 16-01-2010 1:13pm

jackncoke wrote: »

You list the type of vehicle,engine,spec etc

hahaha FYP

Sorry I'll elaborate lol

If they ask you for your reg. and the pc tells them they don't have record of it. Doesn't that mean they don't know who the ownerr is :rolleyes:

Tipsy Mac · 16-01-2010 1:22pm

Bonito wrote: »

hahaha FYP

Sorry I'll elaborate lol

If they ask you for your reg. and the pc tells them they don't have record of it. Doesn't that mean they don't know who the ownerr is :rolleyes:

They don't check or look for proof who is the registered owner when you take out the policy but later if you try to make a claim and it's found out that you didn't own the car you will get a grand total of €0.00. The reg is merely checked to pull down the car details, similar to Cartell.ie so they don't have to manually enter all the details.

Bonito · 16-01-2010 1:25pm

Thanks for that

was just curious TBH about which what works :rolleyes:

Nice to see there's some way of not being ripped off by insurance companies

Del2005 · 16-01-2010 1:29pm

Bonito wrote: »

I've no problems sending the logbook off and saving myself a bit of cash money His no claims wont be effected though because I'll start another one on this policy for him.

You do know that he'll have to start this policy with 0 NCB and if you have a claim it may affect both his policies. They ask have you had any claims in the last 3 or 5 years, not have you had any claims on this policy.

Bonito · 16-01-2010 1:36pm

Yes I know this. His policy on his car wont be affected. He has 9+ years on his own cars policy. And with me setting up another no claims from scratch he can still have his 9+ years no claims on his car when he renews. As for his no claims being affected on his primary policy, it wont be, he pays the extra little bit to have his no claims protected. We rang his insurance company and they're fine with it and should, god forbid, there was an accident were either myself or my dad had to make a claim then THAT policies no claims would be affected and not his own. We confirmed this with them because I got a cheaper quote for the 2 of us on the vehicle from another insurance company.

oldyouth · 16-01-2010 9:21pm

Bonito wrote: »

Yes I know this. His policy on his car wont be affected. He has 9+ years on his own cars policy. And with me setting up another no claims from scratch he can still have his 9+ years no claims on his car when he renews. As for his no claims being affected on his primary policy, it wont be, he pays the extra little bit to have his no claims protected. We rang his insurance company and they're fine with it and should, god forbid, there was an accident were either myself or my dad had to make a claim then THAT policies no claims would be affected and not his own. We confirmed this with them because I got a cheaper quote for the 2 of us on the vehicle from another insurance company.

That's not fully correct. If your father is the policyholder and there is an accident with you driving, it could affect both of you. For ANY policy your father subsequently applies for he will be asked about any accidents, claims or convictions. You had the accident but HE is making the claim under HIS policy for a driver he has authorised to use the car. It is therefore part of his claims experience and your accident history

bongi69 · 17-01-2010 3:12am

oldyouth wrote: »

That's not fully correct. If your father is the policyholder and there is an accident with you driving, it could affect both of you. For ANY policy your father subsequently applies for he will be asked about any accidents, claims or convictions. You had the accident but HE is making the claim under HIS policy for a driver he has authorised to use the car. It is therefore part of his claims experience and your accident history

Quite correct.

I'll clarify, I work for a major broker, and this is quite a common occurence. Policyholder thinks because a named driver had the crash, it doesn't/shouldn't affect them. And on the flip side, someone taking out a policy who was a named driver on another and had an accident, thinks because it wasn't their policy it shouldn't count against them.

And answer the OP's question, Yes! You have to have "insurable interest" to effect a policy, if its for a car, a house, a boat, or even a pet (as in its your dog, not your brothers/sisters/friends :P)
So if you want to insure the car in your name, it has to be registered to you.

Bonito · 17-01-2010 4:22pm

bongi69 wrote: »

Quite correct.

I'll clarify, I work for a major broker, and this is quite a common occurence. Policyholder thinks because a named driver had the crash, it doesn't/shouldn't affect them. And on the flip side, someone taking out a policy who was a named driver on another and had an accident, thinks because it wasn't their policy it shouldn't count against them.

And answer the OP's question, Yes! You have to have "insurable interest" to effect a policy, if its for a car, a house, a boat, or even a pet (as in its your dog, not your brothers/sisters/friends :P)
So if you want to insure the car in your name, it has to be registered to you.

Don't you hate when insurance companies tell you a load of bull over the phone!

I went to switch my insurance over for 5-6 hours on my dad's car while my gear box was being done, I thought this was grand because when I got my full license they said my policy was upgraded to TPO cover on ANY vehicle I want so long as I have permission off the owner.

When I got my insurance cert it didn't have this on it so I rang and asked about it and they said sorry we'll print you another and send it out. Got the second one and that didn't have the bit claiming I can drive ANY vehicle so long as I have permission from the owner, it's not a rental car and not covered under Motor Trade insurance.

Insurance company turn around and say oh sorry we actually don't insure that type of vehicle do you have another vehicle we can put you on for the day.

I rightly should have demanded a days insurance back because I had to go a day without my car!

bongi69 · 17-01-2010 5:06pm

Bonito wrote: »

Don't you hate when insurance companies tell you a load of bull over the phone!

I went to switch my insurance over for 5-6 hours on my dad's car while my gear box was being done, I thought this was grand because when I got my full license they said my policy was upgraded to TPO cover on ANY vehicle I want so long as I have permission off the owner.

When I got my insurance cert it didn't have this on it so I rang and asked about it and they said sorry we'll print you another and send it out. Got the second one and that didn't have the bit claiming I can drive ANY vehicle so long as I have permission from the owner, it's not a rental car and not covered under Motor Trade insurance.

Insurance company turn around and say oh sorry we actually don't insure that type of vehicle do you have another vehicle we can put you on for the day.

I rightly should have demanded a days insurance back because I had to go a day without my car!

No matter what your licence, your insurance company should be able to do what is called a "Temporary Substituiton." Means that your normal car is taken off cover, and another put on temporarily, generally without charge. I once had a 2.5 TDI VW Touareg as a loan when I was on my provisional

Benefit of this is that the loan car is covered to the same level as your cover. So if you have fully comp on your car, the loan is also fully comp. For the period that you are using the loan car, your car is generally only covered for fire and theft (again depending on cover level), not to actually drive it (dealership will/should have insurance to test drive it if necessary.). The loan car will have to be covered under a seperate policy/dealership policy, and fully roadworthy (tax, nct etc.). So it is really important, that if picking your car up earlier than the time you told your insurer, or the car is going to take longer to be fixed, you should contact your insurer to inform them.

The benefit you're referring to above is whats called Driving Other Cars. Most insurers will offer this as a free extra when the policy holder has a full licence, but for 3rd party cover only. Your own car is still fully covered to be driven by any named drives. Again, the car you are driving should be insured by the owner elsewhere.

Again, this benefit is only really for special circumstances, and one off uses. If it transpired that you were driving another car regularly under this benefit, claims could be denied, as you should really have been a named driver under that cars policy.

In short, if you're getting a loan car from a garage/family member while yours is off the road/getting repaired, do the Temporary Sub. If you're just using another car to pop down the shops/short journey as a once off, you can drive under the Driving Other Cars benefit.

Bonito · 17-01-2010 5:09pm

Yeah but because it wasn't written on my insurance certificate that I can drive all cars but only on TPO cover (like they said over the phone) I would have been done for driving with no insurance if I got stopped by the guardaí

bongi69 · 17-01-2010 5:11pm

Bonito wrote: »

Yeah but because it wasn't written on my insurance certificate that I can drive all cars but only on TPO cover (like they said over the phone) I would have been done for driving with no insurance if I got stopped by the guardaí

Very True! I read through your post quite fast :rolleyes:

Bonito · 17-01-2010 5:14pm

bongi69 wrote: »

Very True! I read through your post quite fast :rolleyes:

Should have recorded the phonecall, that way I'd have proof they said "and your policy is now upgraded and you can drive any car you want so long as you have owners permission but it will only be under 3rd party and not the full cover of your own vehicle"

bongi69 · 17-01-2010 5:25pm

Bonito wrote: »

Should have recorded the phonecall, that way I'd have proof they said "and your policy is now upgraded and you can drive any car you want so long as you have owners permission but it will only be under 3rd party and not the full cover of your own vehicle"

Good old nokia's can do this, I recorded a phone call to meteor about my bill

Anyway, most Gardai would be understanding and give you 10 days to produce a cert of insurance stating the Driving Other cars at a station. I'll underline most Gardai, as some can be finnickity at the best of times :P

Bonito · 17-01-2010 7:06pm

bongi69 wrote: »

Good old nokia's can do this, I recorded a phone call to meteor about my bill

Anyway, most Gardai would be understanding and give you 10 days to produce a cert of insurance stating the Driving Other cars at a station. I'll underline most Gardai, as some can be finnickity at the best of times :P

Yeah but as I said when I noticed my certificate didn't say on it what they said over the phone I rang to complain, got an apology, said they'd sort it and send another, sent the other one and still the same situation, nothing about Driving Other cars.

So if I was pulled and then showed to the station 10 days later with a cert. that said nothing about driving other vehicles I'd bet they'd throw the book at me!

oldyouth · 17-01-2010 7:36pm

I'm not directly referring to the OP or the original question but I can see where a lot of confusion can happen.

Posters refer to MY car but in fact they have insured a vehicle in a parents name. ONLY the policyholder gets the 'driving of other cars' extension. Just because the reality of the situation is that you have a parent fronting the policy is of no use. Named drivers have no rights under a motor policy other than driving the insured vehicle with the policyholders permission. The benefits go to the policyholder only

Bonito · 17-01-2010 8:21pm

oldyouth wrote: »

I'm not directly referring to the OP or the original question but I can see where a lot of confusion can happen.

Posters refer to MY car but in fact they have insured a vehicle in a parents name. ONLY the policyholder gets the 'driving of other cars' extension. Just because the reality of the situation is that you have a parent fronting the policy is of no use. Named drivers have no rights under a motor policy other than driving the insured vehicle with the policyholders permission. The benefits go to the policyholder only

Oh no the policy I have at the minute is my own

like no named drivers etc. Just me insured on my car. But when I wanted to switch my policy for the day my insurance company said no.

yawn · 17-01-2010 8:31pm

Can I just point out that while everyone says that you can't take out an insurance policy if the car is not yours that this is not correct. I own a car but I don't drive. The girlfriend drives it. She has a policy in her own name on my car. Noone else is insured to drive it.

When the papers came for me to sign them they had the car in her name. I sent them back and asked for the papers to say the regstered owner of the car was her spouse. The next set of papers had this on it. So if she was involved in an accident, the car is not hers but she is the legal holder of the insurance policy on it.

If an insurance company sends you documents, read them carefully. Especially if you ask for somethign speciific over the phone. They will tell you anything over the phone then screw you when in an accident if it's not down on paper.

Bonito · 17-01-2010 8:36pm

yawn wrote: »

Can I just point out that while everyone says that you can't take out an insurance policy if the car is not yours that this is not correct. I own a car but I don't drive. The girlfriend drives it. She has a policy in her own name on my car. Noone else is insured to drive it.

So I can stay as owner on my logbook and my dad can be 1st insured and main policy holder and I can go on as a named driver on this?.

They will tell you anything over the phone then screw you when in an accident if it's not down on paper.

This is the exact reason why I didn't drive my fathers car, because even though they said over the phone I can drive ANY car on OTP cover my insurance certificate said otherwise.

yawn · 18-01-2010 1:19am

If they are telling you over the phone, just keep sending the forms back to them til they get it right. Don't take their word over the phone for it. It took an extra week for me to sort it out. If they want your money, make sure your getting the value for it

oldyouth · 18-01-2010 9:07am

yawn wrote: »

Can I just point out that while everyone says that you can't take out an insurance policy if the car is not yours that this is not correct. I own a car but I don't drive. The girlfriend drives it. She has a policy in her own name on my car. Noone else is insured to drive it.

When the papers came for me to sign them they had the car in her name. I sent them back and asked for the papers to say the regstered owner of the car was her spouse. The next set of papers had this on it. So if she was involved in an accident, the car is not hers but she is the legal holder of the insurance policy on it.

If an insurance company sends you documents, read them carefully. Especially if you ask for somethign speciific over the phone. They will tell you anything over the phone then screw you when in an accident if it's not down on paper.

Legally, your girlfriend is not your spouse. Different rules apply for spouses. You can't (shouldn't) insure a vehicle that is not yours. Do it at your peril is my advice. I don't mean to be argumentative but that is the way things are.

Chuchu · 18-01-2010 3:03pm

I didn't want to start a new thread as elements of this thread seem to cover what I'm asking about, I'd appreciate some of your opinions re what is the best to do in the following situation...
I own a heap of **** punto and am about to buy a new (second hand) car... husband is learning to drive and needs more practice. He is currently just a named driver on my punto policy. I would like to keep the punto (not worth a dime) for him to use. What is the simplest way to do this insurance wise with the two cars? I was under the impression that I can't be the policy holder of 2 cars for some reason, but from reading here that does not seem to be a problem. It would obviously be cheaper for me not to change ownership details and policy of punto and just keep him as a named driver on it and get out a new policy for just me on the new vehicle... apologies for ignorance, I will be ringing around companies in due course obviously but don't want to get stung.

yawn · 20-01-2010 12:03pm

oldyouth wrote: »

Legally, your girlfriend is not your spouse. Different rules apply for spouses. You can't (shouldn't) insure a vehicle that is not yours. Do it at your peril is my advice. I don't mean to be argumentative but that is the way things are.

In the eyes of the law we are common husband & wife. We live together and have done for a couple of years. Therefore no problem to have her policy read as car registered in name of spouse etc.

As for the rest of the topic I'd imagine that if someone somehow had 2 policies out on a car and a named driver of the lesser value car is in an accident it would affect the policy holder regardless of how many policies he had.

If you want to have a parnter drive another car in your policy I think you can just get multiple cars added to your existing policy but it would still apply if he had an accident it would affect the policy holder

Bonito · 20-01-2010 12:13pm

Chuchu wrote: »

I didn't want to start a new thread as elements of this thread seem to cover what I'm asking about, I'd appreciate some of your opinions re what is the best to do in the following situation...
I own a heap of **** punto and am about to buy a new (second hand) car... husband is learning to drive and needs more practice. He is currently just a named driver on my punto policy. I would like to keep the punto (not worth a dime) for him to use. What is the simplest way to do this insurance wise with the two cars? I was under the impression that I can't be the policy holder of 2 cars for some reason, but from reading here that does not seem to be a problem. It would obviously be cheaper for me not to change ownership details and policy of punto and just keep him as a named driver on it and get out a new policy for just me on the new vehicle... apologies for ignorance, I will be ringing around companies in due course obviously but don't want to get stung.

Firstly, check how much it is to insure your husband on the punto on his own against insuring both of you. As stated above I'd recommend leaving him on his own policy so A) He can build up a no claims discount and

If he, god forbid, happened to cause an accident as a named driver under your policy on the punto you could be looking at your main policy on your new car being affected. If the money savings is worth the risk then Insure both yourself and your partner on the punto, also just because you're insured on it you don't necessarily have to drive it.

bongi69 · 20-01-2010 1:39pm

Chuchu wrote: »

I didn't want to start a new thread as elements of this thread seem to cover what I'm asking about, I'd appreciate some of your opinions re what is the best to do in the following situation...
I own a heap of **** punto and am about to buy a new (second hand) car... husband is learning to drive and needs more practice. He is currently just a named driver on my punto policy. I would like to keep the punto (not worth a dime) for him to use. What is the simplest way to do this insurance wise with the two cars? I was under the impression that I can't be the policy holder of 2 cars for some reason, but from reading here that does not seem to be a problem. It would obviously be cheaper for me not to change ownership details and policy of punto and just keep him as a named driver on it and get out a new policy for just me on the new vehicle... apologies for ignorance, I will be ringing around companies in due course obviously but don't want to get stung.

You can insure as many cars as you wish, but any no claims bonus earned is only applicable to one car at a time, i.e. you cannot affect 2 policies using the same No Claims Discount.

So For Example:

You can leave the current policy in force on the punto to allow your husband to learn how to drive. Since he is your spouse, you wont run into the issues of ownership etc.
Should you do the above, you can take out a new policy to cover you on the new car, but you cannot use the no claims bonus from the Punto, as this policy is still in force. So the policy on the new car would start from scratch.

The second scenario is you buy the new car, and transfer the cover on your current policy from your Punto to the new car. You continue cover as before, and carry on earning a No Claims bonus.
You or your husband then take out a 2nd policy to cover the Punto, but would start from scratch i.e. No No Claims Bonus. If your husband takes out the insurance in his own name, he can start earning his own no claims bonus, and the new insurer will probably take any Named Driver experience on the current Punto policy into account.

Its a matter of personal preference which scenario you follow.

With the 1st scenario, the insurance on the Punto carries on being the same price, but the new policy on the new car might be more expensive.

With the second scenario, when you switch cover on your existing policy to the new car, you may not have to pay much extra if the new car is roughly the same engine size. Again, the new insurance policy on the punto will be more expensive as you are using the No Claims bonus on the new car. If the new policy on the Punto is taken in your husbands name, and He's on a provisonal, a loading will apply for this. However, if he does have the insurance in his own name, he will start earning a No Claims Discount, which could prove helpful in years to come.

I'm not going to give you a professional opinion as I'm not your broker and wouldn't have the necessary professional indemnity insurance to provide you with advice on this site, but personally, if it was me, I would go with the 2nd scenario and get the husband to take out insurance on the punto in his own name

Hope this helps

oldyouth · 20-01-2010 2:45pm

yawn wrote: »

In the eyes of the law we are common husband & wife. We live together and have done for a couple of years. Therefore no problem to have her policy read as car registered in name of spouse etc.

As for the rest of the topic I'd imagine that if someone somehow had 2 policies out on a car and a named driver of the lesser value car is in an accident it would affect the policy holder regardless of how many policies he had.

If you want to have a parnter drive another car in your policy I think you can just get multiple cars added to your existing policy but it would still apply if he had an accident it would affect the policy holder

You described her as your girlfriend, not your common law partner/spouse. As a 'girlfreind' my response still applies.
With regard to your other point, if there are 2 policies that cover a particular driver involved in an incident, both can come in to play and share costs.

Yet another insurance Q!

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