Renault have there heads Screwed on, and so ahead of everyone else (in my opinion)

cvisser

The best Car ad i've ever seen, Renault really get the message across, History of the car, global warming, C02, safety, and the Future of the Electric car, Well done Renault. With everything now in place There Gonna be a force in the Car Industry.

View ad: Fantastiqueeeeeeeee

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MmnV9tAFxE

SV

Have to agree, I seen that on the tv there the other day and was glued to it 'till the end.

Very good advert..not that I like the idea of electric cars but..

smcgiff

Come back when they've moved beyond a computer generated model.

Owen

The electric car is completely underdeveloped, and being launched far too soon. Plus, I wouldn't buy anything that required electricity to function from Renault - a company who couldn't even make their keycard system work, let alone a whole electric car.

The ad, while a little inspiring, is annoying. The guy ends up just shouting half way through to get the message, rather than using music, or subtle changes in his voice. On the subject of EV's, here's what I wrote in a recent thread, and why it's such a screw-up of an idea to release anything at the moment, everyone's raving about EV's being the way of the future, and clearly, they're not.

Some of the developing EV tech is promising, but I still don't see it replacing some form of cumbustion engine - be that hydrogen, or extremely high mpg diesels (We've already got Diesels reaching 75mpg and more, won't be long before they're hitting 100mpg at the expense of performance).

One I read about was a battery tech being trialled, that allowed the battery to be charged to 90% of capacity in about 30 seconds. That might never see production though.

Another was specifically for buses. It was to replace the battery with a capacitor - a bit enormous f*ck off capacitor. The capacitor could then be charged very rapidly at the bus stops when taking on passengers, but would only last about 2 stops distance owing to it's rapid discharge rate. Would be perfect if it charged up every stop though. Same principle could be applied to short haul taxis and taxi ranks.

The best was being developed by GM though, it was an EV, but the EV had a small engine which only had to charge the batteries, not run the drivetrain. It was capabale of ridiculous mpg figures.

The problem with EV's is that everyone's rushing towards it and suggesting ridiculous concepts, swappable battery packs, on street charging, etc. Swappable battery packs won't work because the public isn't patient enough to wait to fill their petrol tank, let alone a 10 minute battery pack swap, and the on street charging wont work because some little scumbag in a hoodie will buy a bolt cutters and have a whale of a time cutting the charging cables.

EV's should be allowed to mature, and undergo testing platforms for feasibility and to recognise weaknesses. The MINI-E project is one BMW have been using, and they've already discovered huge weaknesses in the tech, but have also learned a lot statistically. The next step in that project will be a 1 Series Coupé EV, but that will be based on making corrections they now know need to be made.

Maybe Renault's team will come up with something revolutionary, but I can't see it being more than what we already know, with a fancy body on it to attract the press/public.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pkiernan
3 minutes with a battery swap at new "petrol stations".

I can't see any battery swap being 3 mintues. Maybe at Renaults own testing with lighting fast techs, but in the real world with real people , I'd imagine it's more than 10. Plus, we're going to need a whole lot of these stations. Will they then have to have different ramps for different cars with different swappable battery pack architectures? The only standard agreed on so far in EVs has been the charging socket.

homer simpson

cvisser wrote: »

The best Car ad i've ever seen, Renault really get the message across, History of the car, global warming, C02, safety, and the Future of the Electric car, Well done Renault. With everything now in place There Gonna be a force in the Car Industry.

View ad: Fantastiqueeeeeeeee

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MmnV9tAFxE

Good to see the man who won the apprentice doing some good work then:D

Mr Benevolent

cvisser wrote: »

The best Car ad i've ever seen, Renault really get the message across, History of the car, global warming, C02, safety, and the Future of the Electric car, Well done Renault. With everything now in place There Gonna be a force in the Car Industry.

View ad: Fantastiqueeeeeeeee

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MmnV9tAFxE

Thread brought to you by Renault*

*Any Renault vehicles purchased may not work. No comebacks. We told you so.

hi_im_fil

Zero emissions electric car? But where does the electricity used to charge it come from :pac:

Owen

hi_im_fil wrote: »

Zero emissions electric car? But where does the electricity used to charge it come from :pac:

Thank you! All the tree hugging hippies seem to forget this one.

Mr Benevolent

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Thank you! All the tree hugging hippies seem to forget this one.

Irrelevant. The power station is going to pump that stuff out anyway. Might as well worry about the CO2 your dishwasher is spewing into the sky from the power it consumes.

homer simpson

hi_im_fil wrote: »

Zero emissions electric car? But where does the electricity used to charge it come from :pac:

The car produces zero emmissions, it doesn't boast about the electricty plany being zero emmissions, so i see nothing wrong with it?

hi_im_fil

homer_simpson wrote: »

The car produces zero emmissions, it doesn't boast about the electricty plany being zero emmissions, so i see nothing wrong with it?

Well the fact of the matter is that overall, emissions are still being produced in order to allow the vehicle move. Its just that the emisions are no longer coming from the car itself, but a power station now.

EDIT: And this ad would lead people who don't have a great knowledge about cars or new technology in general that overall the car doesn't produce any emissions

homer simpson

hi_im_fil wrote: »

Well the fact of the matter is that overall, emissions are still being produced in order to allow the vehicle move. Its just that the emisions are no longer coming from the car itself, but a power station now.

EDIT: And this ad would lead people who don't have a great knowledge about cars or new technology in general that overall the car doesn't produce any emissions

If you feel that strongly about it report it to the advertising commission :P, if there is such a thing, the car is more emmission friendly than a petrol/deisel car there can be no doubt about that and the car does produce zero emmissions, like i said its the electricity supplier that produces the emmissions not the car! sure when its being built ect there will be emmissions but the car itself still preduces zero emmissions sorry but i duno what your greivence is TBH

Tipsy Mac

Nice ad but you can't buy any of them yet so pointless.

Big Nasty

'Renault' and 'Electric' don't belong in the same sentence unless that sentence also has 'Broken' in it.

SV

MCMLXXV wrote: »

'Renault' and 'Electric' don't belong in the same sentence unless that sentence also has 'Broken' in it.

*yawn*
typical boards bullshít.

TheColl

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

Nice ad but you can't buy any of them yet so pointless.

and its going to be a long time before purchasing an electric car is realistic and feasible in this country... don't really see the big deal about this ad tbh, it's very premature. i know it's a UK ad, but still.

Big Nasty

SV wrote: »

*yawn*
typical boards bullshít.

Eh, no! Anyone I know who has ever had a Renault has had electrical problems with them. I'm not saying they're a bad car, I'm saying electrics isn't one of Renault's strong points. Therefore I believe they should try get what they have right before they start trying to develop electric cars.

hi_im_fil

homer_simpson wrote: »

If you feel that strongly about it report it to the advertising commission :P, if there is such a thing, the car is more emmission friendly than a petrol/deisel car there can be no doubt about that and the car does produce zero emmissions, like i said its the electricity supplier that produces the emmissions not the car! sure when its being built ect there will be emmissions but the car itself still preduces zero emmissions sorry but i duno what your greivence is TBH

I just think its a bit cheeky the way its marketed.

As an overall package (in order to enable the car to move) emissions are produced.

junkyard

The only thing clever about Renault is their advertising. I have a Clio in at the moment that drains it's battery over night, the hazard lights come on when they feel like it oh and the right indicators come on when you put up the electric window on the drivers door. I don't know wheather to get a priest to exorcise it or an auto electrician.

Shane732

SV wrote: »

*yawn*
typical boards bullshít.

You go and buy one then... Oh wait it's not actually in production is it?

"Next year Shane732 will introduce a line of zero emissions cars that will refine the worldwide motor industry....."

Decent ad, pity that was probably the entire budget for building the car...

Shane732

junkyard wrote: »

The only thing clever about Renault is their advertising. I have a Clio in at the moment that drains it's battery over night, the hazard lights come on when they feel like it oh and the right indicators come on when you put up the electric window on the drivers door. I don't know wheather to get a priest to exorcise it or an auto electrician.

That's obviously the first line of the electric Renault's you've got there. Renault are introducing them without telling people.

Oh one other thing - I wouldn't getting a priest or electrician. I'd drive it into the sea and make sure you get out before it goes in!

kdevitt

That advert makes me want to puke.

Drummerboy08

The EV is actually being made in conjunction with Nissan. How much Japanese electrics have you in your home? Dont knock it until you've tried it I say.

Shane732

cvisser wrote: »

The best Car ad i've ever seen, Renault really get the message across, History of the car, global warming, C02, safety, and the Future of the Electric car, Well done Renault. With everything now in place There Gonna be a force in the Car Industry.

View ad: Fantastiqueeeeeeeee

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MmnV9tAFxE

Yup Renault are years ahead behind other manufactures.

Yawn here's a BMW ad re zero emission cars that was released in hmmm.... 2007. That would put Renault 3 years behind?

The technology is there introducing it in a cost efficient manner is the problem.

SV

Shane732 wrote: »

You go and buy one then... Oh wait it's not actually in production is it?

"Next year Shane732 will introduce a line of zero emissions cars that will refine the worldwide motor industry....."

Decent ad, pity that was probably the entire budget for building the car...

Did I say I wanted one of them?
I own a Renault already actually, my second as it happens.

It's perfect, whaddaya know :rolleyes:

I just happen to think it's pathetic(well, it is) the way the *certain types* come on here and slag electrics or anything about Renault when 99% of them don't have a clue what they're on about or have 'heard off someone'

Shane732

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

The EV is actually being made in conjunction with Nissan. How much Japanese electrics have you in your home? Dont knock it until you've tried it I say.

Where do I try it? I'll do it tomorrow - oh wait.... *Yawns*

Shane732

SV wrote: »

Did I say I wanted one of them?
I own a Renault already actually, my second as it happens.

It's perfect, whaddaya know :rolleyes:

I think the fact that you went back and bought a second one speaks volumes!

How old is it? I wouldn't start boasting about it yet.....

SV

Shane732 wrote: »

I think the fact that you went back and bought a second one speaks volumes!

How old is it? I wouldn't start boasting about it yet.....

~I think the fact you talk like that without even knowing what kind it is speaks volumes.
9 years old, as was the other.

m-a-i-

I agree to a certain point. IMO I think Clio's are very safe cars however when it breaks down it doesn't do it in halves....I drive a clio and it was out of commision for three weeks all because the alternator was gone and it took an age to find one - I will point out the it is supposedly a "sport" version but I'm not sure

Drummerboy08

Shane732 wrote: »

Where do I try it? I'll do it tomorrow - oh wait.... *Yawns*

Exactly. What do you base your comments on? It seems to be based on your opinion of Renault (not even knowing that it will be built mostly ny Nissan) and your opinion isnt something I or anyone else on here seems to value much based on your previous comments in this thread.

Wait until you experience the car before you start spouting sh1te.

Shane732

SV wrote: »

I just happen to think it's pathetic(well, it is) the way the *certain types* come on here and slag electrics or anything about Renault when 99% of them don't have a clue what they're on about or have 'heard off someone'

Sorry - to explain myself... A family member bought a new Renault Megane in 2002 kept her for 3 years and did about 50,000 mls over the 3 year period. Never crashed or anything like that...

The car was traded in after a series serious of electrical problems. In a 3 year period the car lost 75% of it's value (I wonder why the residuals are so rubbish?)

Am I the *certain types* you are referring to above? If so the *certain types* would be people who have experienced the problems!

Matt Simis

cvisser wrote: »

The best Car ad i've ever seen, Renault really get the message across, History of the car, global warming, C02, safety, and the Future of the Electric car, Well done Renault. With everything now in place There Gonna be a force in the Car Industry.

View ad: Fantastiqueeeeeeeee

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MmnV9tAFxE

Wow, I thought it was preachy and pious, from a company that up to this point has made no effect to appeal to me (my demographic) on the technology front.

This ad is a major turn off for me for the marque. The (rubbish) 3D rendering of the electric car, missing all textures but presented as finished product was just confusing.

slimjimmc

PaintDoctor wrote: »

The ad, while a little inspiring, is annoying. The guy ends up just shouting half way through to get the message, rather than using music, or subtle changes in his voice. On the subject of EV's, here's what I wrote in a recent thread, and why it's such a screw-up of an idea to release anything at the moment, everyone's raving about EV's being the way of the future, and clearly, they're not.

Every change has its advocates, it's problems and it's opponents.
The CEO of a certain telegraph company once said that Marconi's wireless telegraphy would never replace the cable telegraph. People once said the motor car would never replace horse power, too expensive, too dangerous, nowhere to refuel, etc, etc. Thankfully for us, the opponents lost.

The electric car is the future, there is no doubt about it. Of course there will be problems such as developing a complete recharging infrastructure, battery duration, etc but all these will be overcome over time. Petrol stations and mechanics weren't exactly plentyful until the car gained widespread acceptance, the same will be said of EVs. For now, EVs will be targeted at the city user where journeys are short and where the higher population density makes it most economic to invest in facilities. As the market grows, competition and investment will increase.

Big Nasty

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

The EV is actually being made in conjunction with Nissan. How much Japanese electrics have you in your home? Dont knock it until you've tried it I say.

If Nissan have serious input I would certainly have more faith, although I still stand by my previous comment:

I'm not saying they're a bad car, I'm saying electrics isn't one of Renault's strong points. Therefore I believe they should try get what they have right before they start trying to develop electric cars.

Shane732

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Exactly. What do you base your comments on? It seems to be based on your opinion of Renault (not even knowing that it will be built mostly ny Nissan) and your opinion isnt something I or anyone else on here seems to value much based on your previous comments in this thread.

Wait until you experience the car before you start spouting sh1te.

Mostly built by Nissan? Apologies I wasn't aware of this. I thought that Nissan and Renault were working in conjunction on a lithium ion battery system that would be used in Renault's and Nissan's going forward.

I thought that the lithium ion battery system would be the only part of the cars the two companies would be working on together. I was of the opinion that Renault would use the ion system in their vehicles and Nissan would use the system in their vehicles, not that the companies were building a car under a joint venture. I could be wrong though.

If I am correct then the Renault's will presumably have similar reliability to other Renault's - and what's the reliability of Renault's currently like?

The Nissan Leaf looks like a reasonable car....

I won't be test driving the that Renault.

unkel

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Thank you! All the tree hugging hippies seem to forget this one.

And when they're starting to understand that one, tell them the leccy will have to come mainly from nuclear for the foreseeable and watch them turn truely green

Big Nasty

bostoncommon wrote: »

Renault must be getting better Dr. Bill gave €7500 for a 97 megene in Liffey Valley during the week? Beat Joe Mallons by €2500! Work that one out? Too be fair the 97 was always a good car...:D

Que?

KamiKazi

hi_im_fil wrote: »

Zero emissions electric car? But where does the electricity used to charge it come from :pac:

Did noone else see Boris Johnson on Top Gear??

JC: "But where does the electricity come from Boris?"
BJ: "From the plug Jeremy"

T-Maxx

Like yeah like my ex girlfriend's brother's friend's mom's cousin's boss's wife had a Renault like whatever model like and the electrics kept on crapping out so like yeah all Renaults are like garbage like.:rolleyes:

sk8board

I heard Dr bill on Marian Finucane this AM say that the Gormley has an order for 1000 of the renault/nissan fully electic cars this year.

She checked him on it; is it actually 1000, and FULLY electric, not hybrid; he confirmed it absolutely was both

will believe it when I see it; but if hes delivering them, how come I've never seen this vehicle?

edit: p.s I have a 10yo renault form new, and it never gave me a days trouble.

KamiKazi

T-Maxx wrote: »

Like yeah like my ex girlfriend's brother's friend's mom's cousin's boss's wife had a Renault like whatever model like and the electrics kept on crapping out so like yeah all Renaults are like garbage like.:rolleyes:

A wild Renault owner wanders in. Casts level 10 sarcasm.

It fails.

colm_mcm

sk8board wrote: »

I heard Dr bill on Marian Finucane this AM say that the Gormley has an order for 1000 of the renault/nissan fully electic cars this year.

They ordered them regardless of price? have they actually got pricing on them?

Shane732

bostoncommon wrote: »

Renault must be getting better Dr. Bill gave €7500 for a 97 megene in Liffey Valley during the week? Beat Joe Mallons by €2500! Work that one out? Too be fair the 97 was always a good car...:D

Seriously? That's amazing.....

Where did you hear this?

You can buy a 97 Megane for €750 - might pick one up and see how much Bill will give me for it!

colm_mcm

bostoncommon wrote: »

Renault must be getting better Dr. Bill gave €7500 for a 97 megene in Liffey Valley during the week? Beat Joe Mallons by €2500! Work that one out? Too be fair the 97 was always a good car...:D

was that on top of the discounts and scrappage, or was it just very tidy?

Shane732

sk8board wrote: »

I heard Dr bill on Marian Finucane this AM say that the Gormley has an order for 1000 of the renault/nissan fully electic cars this year.

She checked him on it; is it actually 1000, and FULLY electric, not hybrid; he confirmed it absolutely was both

will believe it when I see it; but if hes delivering them, how come I've never seen this vehicle?

edit: p.s I have a 10yo renault form new, and it never gave me a days trouble.

Well the Nissan Leaf is in existence so it is possible that we'll have 1,000 of them in the country by the end of the year. Its due to be released in the US in the summer. I've heard rumors that the price tag will be around €30,000. Of course this depends on the VRT treatment of the car.

The main problem is that the range is only about 100mls. You can supposedly charge them to roughly 80% in 30 mins. A full charge takes over 8 hrs (i.e. charge over night). Performance is also meant to be pretty bad ...

Owen

It's interesting that the people defending Renault's electrics and residual values on this thread have owned one, or maybe two, or know a family member or two that have them.

Then you see the flip side of the coin, where people like Junkyard and I have actually traded them in and tried to sell them, and had our hearts broken, and our pockets emptied, based on dozens of Renaults not just the odd one or two.

Seriously though, despite what anyone has said on this thread, electric cars are not the way of the future. Most journo's even accept that. Hydrogen is the way forward, we just need to develop the tech a bit more for refuelling and production. This EV bullsh*t is to keep the EU and the hippies happy.

unkel

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Hydrogen is the way forward, we just need to develop the tech a bit more for refuelling and production.

Only a tiny bit more.

Most internal combustion engines that we already have right now can run fine on hydrogen with only minor adjustments.

Hydrogen fuel costs is currently more than petrol, but only a bit more. And not for long with fossil fuel prices price trend of only upwards mid to long term (5-20 years)

Distribution network for hydrogen is non-existent, but this is the easiest of the issues.

If a major economy like the US would apply petrol excise on a similar level as average EU on petrol while keeping hydrogen excise free, the mass changeover from petrol to hydrogen would happen within 10 years.

Fuel cells to replace internal combustion engines is the next step, maybe 2025-2050

peasant

The good, old internal combustion engine is a total waste of energy

Modern gasoline engines have an average efficiency of about 20% to 30% when used to power a car. In other words, of the total heat energy of gasoline, 70 to 80% is ejected (as heat from the exhaust) as mechanical sound energy or consumed by the motor (friction, air turbulence, heat through the cylinder walls or cylinder head, and work used to turn engine equipment and appliances such as water and oil pumps and electrical generator), and only about 25% of energy moves the vehicle

Wasting more energy to produce Hydrogen (which is even less efficient than petrol) isn't going to improve things either.

Owen

I agree that Hydrogen isn't really efficient, but the public doesn't give a damn about efficiency, and neither does the global economy. We have 2 choices.

Buy electric cars which will be efficient, and run for 100 miles, stretching to maybe 170 when battery tech improves, and take all the oil companies out of the loop. We end up with pissed off consumers who have to take the bus/train/plane anywhere out of the way, or having to pay a hotel to charge their car so they can make the return journey home, and we end up with a real mess of an economic system because shell/exxon/texaco and co can't actually make a product anymore.

Or we go Hydrogen. We get vehicles which are more or less as efficient as now, but with less of an environmental impact. We get vehicles which can travel realistic distances, relatively happy consumers, and the oil companies can switch to manufacturing Hydrogen, and the economy keeps moving.

Guy:Incognito

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Eh, no! Anyone I know who has ever had a Renault has had electrical problems with them. .

I havnt. That's Between me and 6 family members and at least 2 guys I work with ( 15 cars at a rough count. Only one that actually died was a Laguna 1 that broke a well overdue timeing belt ).

unkel wrote: »

Hydrogen fuel costs is currently more than petrol, but only a bit more. And not for long with fossil fuel prices price trend of only upwards mid to long term (5-20 years)

Did the Honda one that James may did the test not only have a range of 250-300 miles though? IT'll need to at least match fossil fuel if it's around the same price per litre.



The main problem with electric cars is charge time. If it's going to take 16 hours to charge a car it's a non runner. End of. It has to get down to somewhere around what it takes to fuel a car now or everyone other than peoplke who take their cars 2 miles to the shop and back each day just wont be interested.No amount of environmentally sound bull will change that. People are only interested in being enviromentally friendly if it fits in with their lifestyles (generally speaking. Theres will of course be a hard core tree hugging element)

bongi69

What I can see happening in a hypothetical transitional phase between fossil fuels and alternatives, is your average 2 car family owning one of each.

The little electric for nipping down to the shops, going to work, school run etc (provided you can provide an electric with similar performance to a small runabout, the likes of a 1.0 corsa, fiesta etc.). And then you'd have the polar bear killer for longer/motorway journeys.

Then again, this solution would not work worldwide. People in developing countries tend to only have one car per household, if even, and cars have a longer shelf life. Having grown up in South Africa, I can safely say that you do see many 20 years or older cars on the roads. People tend to repair them if they are knackered, rather than sending them to the breakers. Hence why, for example a 2nd hand car could be 3 times the price there than it is here. I was there recently and saw a 98 Polo for the equivalent of €4500