Interesting Irish Rail story

Hungerford

This thought-provoking piece appeared in the Irish Times today. Basically, it seems that Irish Rail's HR manager is fighting his dismissal by claiming that "differences over the level of fraud in the company, allegedly costing up to €8.7 million" between himself and Dick Fearn lie behind it...

Dismissed Irish Rail director alleges €8.7m fraud in company
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0116/1224262472357.html

Very interesting. One to watch for the future.

Judgement Day

Yes, but we have been here before on many occasions. Some years back another very senior manager was sacked and took the company car home with him - CIE took him to court and he kept the car...more waste of tax payers money wasted. Expect John Keenan to laugh all the way to the bank.

Victor

I'm not sure if this is completely new. I presume the €8.7m is the figure in the Baker Tilly report.

JHMEG

It's all very dubious sounding. Suspending him because he waited 10 days to tell the chief an equality tribunal ruled against him. Why didn't the chief know of the ruling the day it happened from his own admin staff, as it has serious implications?

dowlingm

the mention of tracking devices was a bit more interesting though...

Metrobest

Irish Rail and CIE really are the sickest companies. Their truly appaling internal cultures are projected onto external customers. A company where morale is in the basement and management style is something out of Are You Being Served should really be just wound up. This company is beyond change.

Hungerford

Victor wrote: »

I'm not sure if this is completely new. I presume the €8.7m is the figure in the Baker Tilly report.

What Keenan is claiming was that Fearn pushed for a much lower number in the report in the region of around €2m - €3m. If I recall correctly, both made it into the final report and Keenan is arguing he is being victimised because of that disagreement.

The whole thing sounds bizarre: what was Keenan going to benefit from concealing the details of the tribunal verdict from Fearn. It wasn't like it was going to go away.

Rev. BlueJeans

Metrobest wrote: »

Irish Rail and CIE really are the sickest companies. Their truly appaling internal cultures are projected onto external customers. A company where morale is in the basement and management style is something out of Are You Being Served should really be just wound up. This company is beyond change.

Ripe for privatisation tbh, with the infrastructure remaining in state ownership, and the companies subject to as heavy regulation as we've seen in the energy sector. As *should* have happened with Eircom.

Victor

JHMEG wrote: »

Why didn't the chief know of the ruling the day it happened from his own admin staff, as it has serious implications?

Well it seems the accusation is that a limited number of staff knew.

okioffice84

I'm pretty sure an old boss of mine colluded with IR people to have a premises shut down in order to obtain a huge insurance payout. (IR were the landlords of the premises and an insurance policy taken out by my boss provided for compensation if IR needed the property for 're-development') The business wasn't doing too well at the time so it was in my bosses interests to take the money and run.

BrianD

okioffice84 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure an old boss of mine colluded with IR people to have a premises shut down in order to obtain a huge insurance payout. (IR were the landlords of the premises and an insurance policy taken out by my boss provided for compensation if IR needed the property for 're-development') The business wasn't doing too well at the time so it was in my bosses interests to take the money and run.

That's quite an allegation to make. You should be taking this information to the Gardai and not posting it here.

BrianD

Metrobest wrote: »

Irish Rail and CIE really are the sickest companies. Their truly appaling internal cultures are projected onto external customers. A company where morale is in the basement and management style is something out of Are You Being Served should really be just wound up. This company is beyond change.

Well it would seem that CIE is no different to other national rail companies in Europe. In facr it seems that the gentleman named in the artlicle must have been taking a leaf out of Deutsche Bahn's book:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQQ/is_12_49/ai_n45145681/

Metrobest

BrianD wrote: »

Well it would seem that CIE is no different to other national rail companies in Europe. In facr it seems that the gentleman named in the artlicle must have been taking a leaf out of Deutsche Bahn's book:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQQ/is_12_49/ai_n45145681/

Spying is not part of the HR policy of most national rail companies. I don't know much about DB. Perhaps it also has a sick internal culture. Come to think of it, the workers on its trains are always very sour-faced.

If I want to see a train company where workers appear to be proud of their jobs and this is reflected in excellent customer service, I go for the Thalys. With a liberalisation of the market, there's no reason why a company like Thalys should not be able to pitch to operate the main line intercity trains in Ireland.

Imagine sitting in first class on the Dublin-Cork, using WiFi, eating Duck, drinking wine, and being served by professional train staff. That's what Thalys is all about.

Hungerford

Metrobest wrote: »

With a liberalisation of the market, there's no reason why a company like Thalys should not be able to pitch to operate the main line intercity trains in Ireland.

Erm... Thalys run only TGVs and focus on high-speed rail services only. But I accept your point about Iarnrod Eireann's appalling service ethos.

Judgement Day

Metrobest wrote: »

Spying is not part of the HR policy of most national rail companies. I don't know much about DB. Perhaps it also has a sick internal culture. Come to think of it, the workers on its trains are always very sour-faced.

If I want to see a train company where workers appear to be proud of their jobs and this is reflected in excellent customer service, I go for the Thalys. With a liberalisation of the market, there's no reason why a company like Thalys should not be able to pitch to operate the main line intercity trains in Ireland.

Imagine sitting in first class on the Dublin-Cork, using WiFi, eating Duck, drinking wine, and being served by professional train staff. That's what Thalys is all about.

On the 'Flying Pig Express'?

nanu nanu

From todays Sunday Independent,

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/a-spotlight-on-the-inner-workings-of-irish-rail-2017389.html

BrianD

Metrobest wrote: »

Spying is not part of the HR policy of most national rail companies. I don't know much about DB. Perhaps it also has a sick internal culture. Come to think of it, the workers on its trains are always very sour-faced.

If I want to see a train company where workers appear to be proud of their jobs and this is reflected in excellent customer service, I go for the Thalys. With a liberalisation of the market, there's no reason why a company like Thalys should not be able to pitch to operate the main line intercity trains in Ireland.

Imagine sitting in first class on the Dublin-Cork, using WiFi, eating Duck, drinking wine, and being served by professional train staff. That's what Thalys is all about.

I think the problem that rail companies historicaly tend to be large geographically spread companies with multiple locations. Whether state or privately owned their operating structures provide a lot of opportunity for fraud - especially at local level. Modern management methods and computerisation can help reduce fraud but many of these companies are old and procedures difficult to change. Often the fraudulent activity will transfer into a electronic management regime. I can kind of understand why the guys in DB cross referenced his employees andthe IR guy is snooping on his. I don't approve of it but one can understand it.

The problem is that privatisation hasn't been very successful either. So quite clearly both "communism" and "capitalism" aren't benefiting the railway industry. One wonders if there's a form of "socialism" taht would work.

Personally, the last IR journey I took from Limerick went like clockwork and the trains were new and comfortable. It didn't have wifi and I'm not one for duck nor would I see how it would improve my travel experience. The staff were all professional and seemed efficient.

Metrobest

BrianD wrote: »

Personally, the last IR journey I took from Limerick went like clockwork and the trains were new and comfortable. It didn't have wifi and I'm not one for duck nor would I see how it would improve my travel experience. The staff were all professional and seemed efficient.

I know it's not comparing like with like, and I'm not saying every Irish Rail service has to be at Thalys level. But the intercity routes in Ireland should be flagships routes where you get top quality service. Service and passenger experience are the only areas where Irish Rail can compete with a car or a bus. On journey time, flexibility, connectivity, the bus and the car will win on the key routes to Cork, Galway and Belfast.

Last time I was on an Irish train (at Christmas, due to the icy roads) I saw that the vast, vast majority of passengers were over the age of 65. Irish Rail should be very worried - the majority of its clients are on free travel passes, so the state is subsidising the rail service twice over.

Trains feel slow. Unannounced stops mid journey with no information. No staff visible on the train. Dreary-looking stations. People skulling cans of Bulmers and being obstreperious. All these aspects of my recent journey made me thankful for one thing. Ireland's new motorways.

I don't believe Irish Rail has a future. It's not a question of if, it's a question of when, somebody has the nerve to close it down and start a very different kind of train operating company, which might even charge higher fares, but will deliver a far superior service.

Judgement Day

One of the worst things about State companies in general, and CIE in particular, is the lack of incentivisation to encourage management and staff to be productive. Salaries and wages are paid no matter what the performance of the individual concerned and while I don't know I should think it is virtually impossible to be sacked in CIE - especially in the light of the present story. The unions bring the whole company to a standstill if it is one of their own members and the legal eagles are called upon whenever a manager is in the spotlight.

In years gone by staff were encouraged to drum up new business and paid a commission for same. Likewise innovation was rewarded albeit in only a token way but all that seems to be gone. Not that I approve of privatisation but the situation at Aer Lingus where the staff hold a percentage of the shares in the company would seem to be a worthwhile idea. However, I suspect that there is more chance of CIE putting a man into space than encourage innovation and I remain of the belief that the company must be got rid of and a fresh start made.

Hungerford

Judgement Day wrote: »

One of the worst things about State companies in general, and CIE in particular, is the lack of incentivisation to encourage management and staff to be productive.

The problem with CIE is that some of its staff are productive... but not in the way they are meant to be.

The management of the organisation is a complete shambles too as Irish Rail's various misadventures over the years have shown. And now basic safety issues are emerging.

I am amazed that no heads have rolled over the Skerries derailment fiasco or the Malahide viaduct collapse and the irregularities that it showed in their maintenance regimes. Both events could have resulted in serious loss of life.

Judgement Day

Hungerford wrote: »

The problem with CIE is that some of its staff are productive... but not in the way they are meant to be.

The management of the organisation is a complete shambles too as Irish Rail's various misadventures over the years have shown. And now basic safety issues are emerging.

I am amazed that no heads have rolled over the Skerries derailment fiasco or the Malahide viaduct collapse and the irregularities that it showed in their maintenance regimes. Both events could have resulted in serious loss of life.

And better not mention the last Cahir Viaduct crash...oops.

Victor

Metrobest wrote: »

Last time I was on an Irish train (at Christmas, due to the icy roads) I saw that the vast, vast majority of passengers were over the age of 65. Irish Rail should be very worried - the majority of its clients are on free travel passes, so the state is subsidising the rail service twice over.

I don't think there is a particular problem with having a free travel pass. It can provide passengers for public transport and service to passengers. However, there are huge problems in how it is run.

Pineapple stu

BrianD wrote: »

That's quite an allegation to make. You should be taking this information to the Gardai and not posting it here.

He/she wont because they only think it happened. There is a big diffrence from " im pretty sure " and " They did ". That type of accusations shouldnt be made on forums like this if it cant be backed up with proof.

thebman

Judgement Day wrote: »

Not that I approve of privatisation but the situation at Aer Lingus where the staff hold a percentage of the shares in the company would seem to be a worthwhile idea.

Em eircom staff also have shares and the company has consistently refused to invest while requesting ever increasing line rentals with no justification all approved by comreg the supposed regulator of the industry.

So the real answer seems to privatisation and heavy regulation. I can't believe comreg is still going at this stage.

Until we change parties in government, I don't think we'll ever see that failure admitted to