Everton v Manchester City (Evening KO)

Esse85

The referee was absolutely 100% correct in giving the penalty, anyone that fails to see that is clearly nuts.

therecklessone

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

No it shouldn't, if it was a pull and the ref thought that the advantage was with the attacker then he did not have to stop play. The advantage that he got was that he made it into the box and then when he was pulled and gained no advantage it is a pen. Or at least that is how I would have called it.

Does that not suggest two separate offences? His hand never left Saha's shirt, no advantage then you bring the play back to point where offence occured first?

vestanpance

Esse85 wrote: »

The referee was absolutely 100% correct in giving the penalty, anyone that fails to see that is clearly nuts.

I must be nuts then, no doubt it was a foul, I hate to see defenders pulling someones shirt but it clearly started outside the box so it should have been a free kick.

therecklessone

Jebus, City have been woeful tonight. Credit to Everton though.

Instant Karma

therecklessone wrote: »

Does that not suggest two separate offences? His hand never left Saha's shirt, no advantage then you bring the play back to point where offence occured first?

sure that wouldn't suit the argument that it was a definite penalty.

Xavi6

Esse85 wrote: »

So, if a player pulls away on anothers players shirt for a split second outside the box yet continues this for a number of seconds inside the box, does this mean it should not be a penalty?

Exactly. If it is a continuous action that started outside the box then of course it's a free kick.

everdead.ie

Given was outstanding there with that save

Xavi6

What a save

Raskolnikov

Robinho is a disgrace. I'd ship the fooker out for a loan spell at Scunthorpe.

Everton have been really, really good though.

MagicMarker

Xavi6 wrote: »

Exactly. If it is a continuous action that started outside the box then of course it's a free kick.

The linesman didn't flag until they were in the box, we can only assume he didn't see it until then.

Raskolnikov

Ohhh Cahill.

everdead.ie

How has coleman been playing?

CR 7

Great control there by mancini. Everton are very unlucky not to be up by 3.

flahavaj

LOL at those predicting a title charge for City after the Blackburn game. Back to earth with a ump.

Liverpool for fourth, despite their scandalous form they're still better than City, Spurs or Villa tbh.

Xavi6

flahavaj wrote: »

LOL at those predicting a title charge for City after the Blackburn game. Back to earth with a ump.

Liverpool for fourth, despite their scandalous form their still better than City, Spurs or Villa tbh.

We were never going to challenge for the title.

Missing half a team doesn't help either.

Fuhrer

flahavaj wrote: »

LOL at those predicting a title charge for City after the Blackburn game. Back to earth with a ump.

Finally a challange for Mancini and he has been torn apart.

everdead.ie

Fellani cheeky chap with the control poor Bellamy

Headshot

that skill from Fellaini was magic

Xavi6

Lol magic from Fellaini. That was quality.

Esse85

vestanpance wrote: »

I must be nuts then, no doubt it was a foul, I hate to see defenders pulling someones shirt but it clearly started outside the box so it should have been a free kick.

See post 147

therecklessone

MagicMarker wrote: »

The linesman didn't flag until they were in the box, we can only assume he didn't see it until then.

In fairness, he didn't flag until Richards let go of Saha's shirt IIRC.

Esse85

Xavi6 wrote: »

Exactly. If it is a continuous action that started outside the box then of course it's a free kick.

Dont you understand that the ref played the advantage, the foul continued, a penalty was awarded and converted , therefore the ref played the advantage. I really cant see how anyone can fail to grasp this.

nullzero

I wonder if Mancini had started to think that this English football lark was going to be a walk in the park before today.
Great stuff from Everton, pity they suffered so much earlier in the season.

flahavaj

Xavi6 wrote: »

We were never going to challenge for the title.

Missing half a team doesn't help either.

Ye're not allowed use that excuse anymore.;)

leninbenjamin

therecklessone wrote: »

In fairness, he didn't flag until Richards let go of Saha's shirt IIRC.

lines man is obliged under the rules of the game to wait and see what the referee does. In other words the lines man has to be absolutely certain that the referee hasn't seen it before he is allowed flag an offence. Daft rule, but it's written.

All in all, we can't know exactly why the referee awarded the penalty until we see the match report.

Instant Karma

Fuhrer wrote: »

Finally a challange for Mancini and he has been torn apart.

LOL

How quickly the knives come out. One away defeat in 5 games and suddenly he's an abject failure. Get a grip.

flahavaj

Xavi6 wrote: »

Lol magic from Fellaini. That was quality.

He's some player, fast becoming one of the best midfielders in the Prem and a bargain at 15 mill. Yet another masterstroke by Moyes.

jaykay74

Enjoyed that a lot.

everdead.ie

Spurs and Liverpool both got a huge let off today credit to Everton they where fantastic and there full squad is very very good

Xavi6

Esse85 wrote: »

Dont you understand that the ref played the advantage, the foul continued, a penalty was awarded and converted , therefore the ref played the advantage. I really cant see how anyone can fail to grasp this.

Do you not understand that when a referee plays advantage but there is none then he brings it back to where the foul initiated from?

There weren't two seperate fouls, there was one, and it began outside the area. He blew up after there was no advantage so the play is brought back to where the foul was committed. Happens in every other part of the field.

The Volt

So happy we picked up a vital victory. City missing Ireland big time IMO. Difference for us today was instead of one or two players having a good game, everyone had a good game. Fellaini 10/10 for me. Heitinga's sweeper role is working wonders as well. Good to see Coleman getting a run out.

Fuhrer

Instant Karma wrote: »

LOL

How quickly the knives come out. One away defeat in 5 games and suddenly he's an abject failure. Get a grip.

One decent team in 5 games and he was completly played off the park.

vestanpance

Esse85 wrote: »

See post 147

Still doesn't make it a penalty.

leninbenjamin

Xavi6 wrote: »

Do you not understand that when a referee plays advantage but there is none then he brings it back to where the foul initiated from?

That is indeed the case that the referee has the authority to do so.

However you don't seem to understand the counter argument. If the referee played advantage and then another foul is commited, he is perfectly entitled to award the foul for the second instead of the first, because, wait for it... they gained an advantage!

Xavi6

leninbenjamin wrote: »

That is indeed the case that the referee has the authority to do so.

However you don't seem to understand the counter argument. If the referee played advantage and then another foul is commited, he is perfectly entitled to award the foul for the second instead of the first, because, wait for it... they gained an advantage!

Where was this second foul?

Richards held his shirt from outside the box and didn't let go until the peno was given.

leninbenjamin

Xavi6 wrote: »

Where was this second foul?

Richards held his shirt from outside the box and didn't let go until the peno was given.

I'll wait until I've seen the replay before I can say it with certainty, but at the time I thought I saw two separate pulls at the shirt.

Esse85

Xavi6 wrote: »

Do you not understand that when a referee plays advantage but there is none then he brings it back to where the foul initiated from?

There weren't two seperate fouls, there was one, and it began outside the area. He blew up after there was no advantage so the play is brought back to where the foul was committed. Happens in every other part of the field.

He played on to give Richards a chance to let go of the shirt, he didnt, therefore a penalty was given. If Richards had let go of the shirt before they entered the box and there was no advantage to Saha, then play would of been brought back and a free kick would of been given.

I repeat: So, if a player pulls away on anothers players shirt for a split second outside the box yet continues this for a number of seconds inside the box, does this mean it should not be a penalty?

Bluetonic

Good win, just a pity Lescott wasn't playing.

Xavi6

leninbenjamin wrote: »

I'll wait until I've seen the replay before I can say it with certainty, but at the time I thought I saw two separate pulls at the shirt.

Fair enough, I'll look at it again myself.

Xavi6

Esse85 wrote: »

He played on to give Richards a chance to let go of the shirt, he didnt, therefore a penalty was given. If Richards had let go of the shirt before they entered the box and there was no advantage to Saha, then play would of been brought back and a free kick would of been given.

So Richards held the shirt from outside the area and didn't let go? Therefore it was just the one long foul?

I repeat: So, if a player pulls away on anothers players shirt for a split second outside the box yet continues this for a number of seconds inside the box, does this mean it should not be a penalty?

And I'll also repeat: No it's not a peno if it is a continuous foul.

If I slide tackle a guy outside the area and the momentum carries us both into it is that a peno as well? Even though the foul began outside the area?

eagle eye

Everton have confirmed they are back with that performance. They looked good against Arsenal but I just wondered how letting that lead slip would affect them, clearly they took the positives out of that performance.

City I don't know what to say about them. Barry was poor today, but I'm wondering if it was Fellaini that was so immense he just made him look that bad today.

It will be interesting to see how City respond to this under their new manager. Aston Villa and their fans are the ones who will be most delighted by today's performances, all the teams in contention for that 4th spot dropping points today. A win tomorrow puts them level with City and Spurs.

Esse85

Xavi6 wrote: »

Where was this second foul?

Richards held his shirt from outside the box and didn't let go until the peno was given.

Are you 100% positive there has to be a 2nd foul??

If thats the case then wouldn't it make sense for defenders to grab hold of attackers shirts at every opportunity outside the box and continuing it well into the penalty area knowing that the only punishment will be a free kick outside the box??

leninbenjamin

Reporter: What went wrong today?
Macini: I think Everton played better than us... This is football.

Classic

Xavi6

Esse85 wrote: »

Are you 100% positive there has to be a 2nd foul??

If thats the case then wouldn't it make sense for defenders to grab hold of attackers shirts at every opportunity outside the box and continuing it well into the penalty area knowing that the only punishment will be a free kick outside the box??

It would make perfect sense yes, and you quite often see it when a winger cuts inside and wrong foots a full back. They grab hold immediately before the winger gets to the area.

Instant Karma

disappointing on City's part but fair play to everton and the fans, well deserved result.

Esse85

Xavi6 wrote: »

So Richards held the shirt from outside the area and didn't let go? Therefore it was just the one long foul?



And I'll also repeat: No it's not a peno if it is a continuous foul.

If I slide tackle a guy outside the area and the momentum carries us both into it is that a peno as well? Even though the foul began outside the area?

I would of taught, now i could be wrong, thats its up to the discression of the referee to award a penalty or to bring it back for a free kick.

Im gonna complicate thing here now but bare with me!!

Say i was marking you in a game, and i started pulling your jersey in your own box, your team made a break upfield, you ran from your own box into mine, all the time i was still tugging your shirt never letting go and the ref is watching every move, and you finally get into my box and fall down as a result from me tugging your jersey, are you telling me its in the laws of the game that the referee should award the free back in your own penalty box where the foul commenced and not in my penalty box??

vestanpance

Esse85 wrote: »

Are you 100% positive there has to be a 2nd foul??

If thats the case then wouldn't it make sense for defenders to grab hold of attackers shirts at every opportunity outside the box and continuing it well into the penalty area knowing that the only punishment will be a free kick outside the box??

But that would just give away a free kick every time, probably better that they actually try and defend within the rules of the game.

vestanpance

Esse85 wrote: »

I would of taught, now i could be wrong, thats its up to the discression of the referee to award a penalty or to bring it back for a free kick.

Im gonna complicate thing here now but bare with me!!

Say i was marking you in a game, and i started pulling your jersey in your own box, your team made a break upfield, you ran from your own box into mine, all the time i was still tugging your shirt never letting go and the ref is watching every move, and you finally get into my box and fall down as a result from me tugging your jersey, are you telling me its in the laws of the game that the referee should award the free back in your own penalty box where the foul commenced and not in my penalty box??

What ref would allow that to happen all they way up the pitch?

Fuhrer

vestanpance wrote: »

What ref would allow that to happen all they way up the pitch?

Mike Dean

Esse85

Xavi6 wrote: »

It would make perfect sense yes, and you quite often see it when a winger cuts inside and wrong foots a full back. They grab hold immediately before the winger gets to the area.

There's a big difference in what happens inside the box and what happens outside e.g refs are very inconsistent in that they would award a foul outside the box 99times out of 100, yet, if that same foul happened in the box, a penalty would not be awarded, even though in the laws of the game a foul is a foul be it inside or outside the box.