Have you ever had depression?

flyswatter

Noel2k9 wrote: »

Maybe just phrase it a bit differently or something so! I don't mean to offend you but saying it's more of a male/female thing just kind of attaches a greater stigma to some mental health issues!

What do you have issue with in what I said?

Nah, I'm far from offended, it's ok. I tend not to piss off people, well in real life.

I'm a forgiving dude.

Also it's the internet after all and it's just text.

Lawliet

flyswatter wrote: »

A bit harsh no?

I don't think anyone means to be harsh, it's just frustrating for people to see others have this sexist attitude towards a lot of mental illnesses. Frankly I think it's insulting to both genders.

Aoibheann

I think what Noel was saying is that if people were to go by a similar logic to the argument posed that self-harming is a thing women do, then mainly men would suffer from schizophrenia, i.e. I'm fairly sure there wasn't much logic to it (the original argument, that is, as I appear to have confused someone by this!)...

flyswatter

Aoibheann, a read through this thread should sort that, a balanced discussion is healthy after all.

Aoibheann

flyswatter wrote: »

Aoibheann, a read through this thread should sort that, a balanced discussion is healthy after all.

I'm not sure I get what you're saying here.. I've read through this thread countless times..? And I'm fairly sure that implying that a specific type of illness/harm/etc is tied to a specific gender isn't quite balanced. I do agree though, that these things should be discussed. People need to be informed and misconceptions need to be cleared up, and as this is one of the biggest sites going in Ireland - no better place!

EDIT: Also, apologies if I'm coming across as a bit harsh, it's just that bundling these sort of illnesses into neat little brackets is the absolute worst thing that can be done. People are already afraid to get the help they need, so to add further stigma to it could worsen the situation so much. I think it's amazing the power others being open has given to those who were struggling. People like yourself, Konata, degausser, etc sharing your experiences on this thread have probably helped more people than any of you know (we've an awfully large amount of lurkers here at times), so I just don't want all that work undone!

amacachi

Just an observation here, but it's amazing how out of whack people's perception can get sometimes. (Don't read the rest of this if you're going to be hypersensitive about it.)

For example eating binges. I'm not trying to belittle anyone or play down their problems but when I hear what counts as a binge for some people it amazes me that it's one of the things that gets to them. Tonight for example I had quite a bit of food and then passed out til nearly 2am. With each passing week I'm more sure I'm diabetic. :pac: It's just a perfect example of how certain imbalances make certain people (e.g. me) go to one end of the scale and not care while others wouldn't be halfway up such a scale and yet it seems like a big deal to them.

flyswatter

amacachi wrote: »

Just an observation here, but it's amazing how out of whack people's perception can get sometimes. (Don't read the rest of this if you're going to be hypersensitive about it.)

For example eating binges. I'm not trying to belittle anyone or play down their problems but when I hear what counts as a binge for some people it amazes me that it's one of the things that gets to them. Tonight for example I had quite a bit of food and then passed out til nearly 2am. With each passing week I'm more sure I'm diabetic. :pac: It's just a perfect example of how certain imbalances make certain people (e.g. me) go to one end of the scale and not care while others wouldn't be halfway up such a scale and yet it seems like a big deal to them.

Yeah, some sugary food and fast food is fine for most people.

It's when you eat several dinners and keep snacking on chocolate and sweets that you put on weight and the more weight you put on, the harder it is to burn it off with exercise.

It is easier for men to burn that stuff off and they have stuff like protein shakes and creatine that can get quicker results. I actually don't know what similar products there are for women to be honest.

amacachi

flyswatter wrote: »

Yeah, some sugary food and fast food is fine for most people.

It's when you eat several dinners and keep snacking on chocolate and sweets that you put on weight and the more weight you put on, the harder it is to burn it off with exercise.

It is easier for men to burn that stuff off and they have stuff like protein shakes and creatine that can get quicker results. I actually don't know what similar products there are for women to be honest.

Protein is full of energy, it makes it take longer to lose weight.

My point was more about how different perception can be depending on how people feel about what they're doing before they do it.

flyswatter

amacachi wrote: »

Protein is full of energy, it makes it take longer to lose weight.

My point was more about how different perception can be depending on how people feel about what they're doing before they do it.

Really? Protein is more important than carbs I think but you need both.

Whats your height if I can ask? I'm a good bit over 6ft so I guess I can handle more food.

amacachi

flyswatter wrote: »

Really? Protein is more important than carbs I think but you need both.

Whats your height if I can ask? I'm a good bit over 6ft so I guess I can handle more food.

Carbs are unnecessary but adding protein to one's diet will add a lot more calories so it'll take more effort to use them up short of heavy weight work.
I'm 6 foot 2 or so and very fat.

My perception is out of whack as well btw, I think I've gone very far to the other end of neurosis. When I drink over the summer it'll generally be an 8-10 hour binge and a dangerous amount. With college I care a lot but still can't be bothered to make any effort whatsoever. Making friends? In 2 year I've probably met 2 new mates. I do no physical activity and am developing some medical problems from it and smoking. As for relationships I'm not even going to go there.

What I'm saying I suppose is that perception is an odd thing. TBH other than drug-taking my behaviour hasn't changed much from when I was depressed to now. If anything it's gotten worse. Yet how I perceive things has swung from one ridiculous extreme to another.

Konata

amacachi wrote: »

Just an observation here, but it's amazing how out of whack people's perception can get sometimes. (Don't read the rest of this if you're going to be hypersensitive about it.)

For example eating binges. I'm not trying to belittle anyone or play down their problems but when I hear what counts as a binge for some people it amazes me that it's one of the things that gets to them. Tonight for example I had quite a bit of food and then passed out til nearly 2am. With each passing week I'm more sure I'm diabetic. :pac: It's just a perfect example of how certain imbalances make certain people (e.g. me) go to one end of the scale and not care while others wouldn't be halfway up such a scale and yet it seems like a big deal to them.

It is very true that different people will perceive a binge as something someone else would perceive as a normal amount of food. Quantities of food are very subjective but binge eating disorder and bulimia binges are so much more than just eating.

I've had anorexia and bulimia in the past. With my bulimia, I had many serious binges, several times a day at my worst. This is the hardest thing for me to admit, even to this day because I feel so, so ashamed at eating so much, especially considering I was once anorexic.

Binges are the most awful things I've ever experienced. You try so hard to resist but it's like you enter a trance. I used to walk over to Centra, keep my head down and just pack my basket full of as much food as I could find - pizza, rolls, buns, cakes, biscuits, chocolate, crisps, anything I could stuff in me as soon as possible. I'd rush back to my room, lock myself in and just eat and eat without stopping. You don't think about anything else when you're in that trance - only the food. And THAT'S what made me binge so often. Because in those little trances, I forgot about everything else that caused me pain. I thought about nothing but food for that period of time. It was just another escape from my world of inability to cope with anything.

But of course the trance doesn't last forever. Afterwards, my God, the guilt. The shame, the utter disgust. It's some of the most awful feelings I've ever experienced in my life. Yet the next day I'd do it all again. My entire life was taken over by food and I stopped going to college, stopped meeting friends, totally isolated myself. The more I ate, the more weight I put on and I couldn't deal with that.

Binging as part of an eating disorder is about so much more than just overeating and feeling a bit crap. That happens to everyone. That's what happens me now, frequently unfortunately but I haven't had a "trance" binge in a long time.

amacachi

Konata wrote: »

It is very true that different people will perceive a binge as something someone else would perceive as a normal amount of food. Quantities of food are very subjective but binge eating disorder and bulimia binges are so much more than just eating.

I've had anorexia and bulimia in the past. With my bulimia, I had many serious binges, several times a day at my worst. This is the hardest thing for me to admit, even to this day because I feel so, so ashamed at eating so much, especially considering I was once anorexic.

Binges are the most awful things I've ever experienced. You try so hard to resist but it's like you enter a trance. I used to walk over to Centra, keep my head down and just pack my basket full of as much food as I could find - pizza, rolls, buns, cakes, biscuits, chocolate, crisps, anything I could stuff in me as soon as possible. I'd rush back to my room, lock myself in and just eat and eat without stopping. You don't think about anything else when you're in that trance - only the food. And THAT'S what made me binge so often. Because in those little trances, I forgot about everything else that caused me pain. I thought about nothing but food for that period of time. It was just another escape from my world of inability to cope with anything.

But of course the trance doesn't last forever. Afterwards, my God, the guilt. The shame, the utter disgust. It's some of the most awful feelings I've ever experienced in my life. Yet the next day I'd do it all again. My entire life was taken over by food and I stopped going to college, stopped meeting friends, totally isolated myself. The more I ate, the more weight I put on and I couldn't deal with that.

Binging as part of an eating disorder is about so much more than just overeating and feeling a bit crap. That happens to everyone. That's what happens me now, frequently unfortunately but I haven't had a "trance" binge in a long time.

I understand that and it wasn't my point, my point was just the massive difference in perception of different people in different mental states that I just find interesting. I doubt most people could eat what I ate last night but I didn't feel bad about it, it's that difference in perception that I was just saying I find interesting. Along with alcohol and socialising as well as other things.

flyswatter

amacachi wrote: »

Carbs are unnecessary but adding protein to one's diet will add a lot more calories so it'll take more effort to use them up short of heavy weight work.
I'm 6 foot 2 or so and very fat.

My perception is out of whack as well btw, I think I've gone very far to the other end of neurosis. When I drink over the summer it'll generally be an 8-10 hour binge and a dangerous amount. With college I care a lot but still can't be bothered to make any effort whatsoever. Making friends? In 2 year I've probably met 2 new mates. I do no physical activity and am developing some medical problems from it and smoking. As for relationships I'm not even going to go there.

What I'm saying I suppose is that perception is an odd thing. TBH other than drug-taking my behaviour hasn't changed much from when I was depressed to now. If anything it's gotten worse. Yet how I perceive things has swung from one ridiculous extreme to another.

It's definitely the lack of exercise that's doing that. It also sounds like your drinking a lot of alcohol which is not helping as there is a massive amount of sugar content in that. I'd say go to the college doctor who can advise a diet plan etc. About the protein, it is important for men, I would seriously advise changing your diet. I was very worried that I might be diabetic for a good while.

IHeartChemistry

Wow...this has kinda gotten mega out of hand.

I understand flyswatter you need to ask questions and you want answers but theres just some things we can't answer. Unless you suffer from it, you kinda wont understand it.

Everyone has different mind sets and different brain chemistry. Some people get sick and some people don't. Some mental illnesses are genetic. Others aren't. People develop things for unknown reasons and suffer from them for reasons only they know.

People hide things (and when your as ill as some people are, hiding it becomes second nature, I became a pro at hiding everything I did) People are ashamed to suffer from mental ilnesses such as eating disorders because of the way society is. Reality is society doesnt accept mental illnesses and people are scared. That then makes the people who suffer from it scared because they feel the world will turn against them.

The world revolves around how other people see us, regardless if we want to believe it and accept it. Its why so many of us suffer from depression and eating disorders. Just society dictates how we take it and see it.

People become ashamed, vunerable, scared. Its why so many cases are unreported each year. Guys are also in a sense more afraid because of the image men have these days. Tough, strong and nothing can beat them. Women are in a sense seen as weaker.

Society really can be a bitch at times.

Insect Overlord

flyswatter wrote: »

It is easier for men to burn that stuff off and they have stuff like protein shakes and creatine that can get quicker results. I actually don't know what similar products there are for women to be honest.

I'm not a nutrition expert, but this has me baffled. Who says women can't use protein shakes and creatine?

Grindylow

Insect Overlord wrote: »

I'm not a nutrition expert, but this has me baffled. Who says women can't use protein shakes and creatine?

Because everyone knows it's a male thing.

I heard it off my friend. :rolleyes:

flyswatter

No, sorry about that IO, maybe I phrased that wrongly or you misunderstood. I didn't say women can't use them , I just don't know anything about the female products. I'm not an authority on fitness by any means but I do know what worked for me but I suppose it was because of my self discipline that helped. Noel, you're being a bit immature there. I'm not being sexist here. I was just asking a genuine question about an illness I don't understand. Looking back at this tonight maybe I came across as a bit forceful in my views. I haven't been to a certain ward in that hospital where a lot of the people most at risk would have been staying. So if I offended anyone, sorry. Didn't mean to seriously. Keep on going its worth it in the end

Aoibheann

flyswatter wrote: »

It is easier for men to burn that stuff off and they have stuff like protein shakes and creatine that can get quicker results. I actually don't know what similar products there are for women to be honest.

flyswatter wrote: »

No, sorry about that IO, maybe I phrased that wrongly or you misunderstood. I didn't say women can't use them

Well, you basically said that men have products that can get these quicker results which would seem to imply that women don't. Also, your second sentence mentions a lack of knowledge of products for women. Now, to the best of my knowledge women can take these exact same things as men.

I know that you're not trying to come across as sexist in anything you're saying, but to be honest you still are. I'd suggest reading over what you've said thus far because you've made comparisons between the genders that, quite frankly, are annoying and a bit ridiculous at times. Again, I don't wish to sound harsh, but some of the things that have been said have irritated and offended me (the self-harm thing mostly). I understand the questions, because the more any of us learn about various mental health issues, the better - but you seriously need to consider how you phrase things!

Jay P

I've debated whether or not I would post an update here for a very long time. I've had them written out a few times, and then decided last minute not to submit, but I'm going to do it now. (Though don't blame me if I end up removing this...)

I was diagnosed with depression 3 days before Christmas, and since then I've just gotten worse and worse. Talking about it is incredibly difficult, and I spent days wondering if I should say something to my parents, or just hope it would go away. In the end I said it to them and saw my GP who prescribed me anti-depressants.

In March I went back to my GP and he increased the dosage of the anti-depressants and referred me to a psychiatrist. He also recommended that I talk to a counsellor, but I haven't worked up the courage to do that yet... Anyway, I only saw the psychiatrist on Friday, and she was lovely. I felt comfortable telling her stuff that I find hard even thinking about... And she prescribed me a different medication because the other one had no effect at all, and scheduled another appointment for June, so hopefully I'll see an improvement before then....

I haven't told very many people about it purely because I find it so hard to talk about. Aside from my parents, I've only told people when I've been drunk. I sometimes fit the title of "Classic emotional drunk" One of my friends has been brilliant though, I feel comfortable enough to tell him when I'm feeling shit. It helps being able to verbalize that kind of thing.

The last few months have been pretty tough. It's been very hard to live with depression, the feelings of sadness and lethargy are horrible, but the helplessness is the hardest thing to live with.

Gi joe!

Jay P wrote: »

It's been very hard to live with depression, the feelings of sadness and lethargy are horrible, but the helplessness is the hardest thing to live with.

Excellent point. That feeling of having no control over anything in your life, no matter what you do is the nastiest part of being depressed. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy: you stop trying because you can't see a positive outcome, and because you stop trying you can never move forward.

Hope things pick up for you!

KnifeWRENCH

Jay P wrote: »

I've debated whether or not I would post an update here for a very long time. I've had them written out a few times, and then decided last minute not to submit, but I'm going to do it now.

Well done for sharing. Hope it made you feel a little better, I know it's not easy to talk about.

I haven't told very many people about it purely because I find it so hard to talk about. Aside from my parents, I've only told people when I've been drunk. I sometimes fit the title of "Classic emotional drunk"

Strangely, I was the opposite. I've talked to friends about it (aswell as talking about it a lot here) and also do the whole "blurting it out when drunk" thing. But I've never once had a proper conversation with my parents, or anyone in my family, about it. I seize up around them and feel awkward. They know full well what's going on; I know my Mam has read the information leaflet for Lexapro and knows why I'm taking it. But I've never actually said the "d" word to them.
I can't even drink alcohol around my parents. I just have this weird need for them to see me as the perfect son who goes to college and doesn't do anything out of the way and doesn't have anything wrong with them. It's a ridiculous mentality, because I actually get on really well with my family and I know they'd have no problem talking to me. I'd just feel to awkward to actually go ahead with it. I find it much easier to talk about it here; it's just people behind a computer screen who I don't have to look directly in the eye and don't have to worry about letting down.


But yeah, I think it's great that you're able to talk to your parents about it. That's definitely a positive thing.

It's been very hard to live with depression, the feelings of sadness and lethargy are horrible, but the helplessness is the hardest thing to live with.

I know exactly what you mean. The feeling that this will always haunt you and that you won't recover is terrifying. Hopefully, the medication and psychiatrist appointments will help with that.

I hope the appointment in June goes well for you. And in the meantime, if you ever need someone to talk to or rant at, I have plenty of room for PMs in my inbox! (And that goes for everyone btw; a lot of people have offered me their support and I've never returned the offer. So yeah, anyone who needs or wants someone to talk to is always welcome to PM me.)

Novella

It's been a really long time, guys!

I've been keeping my eye on this thread, but not posting 'cause... I don't actually know why, but I just wanted to say that the honesty in the last few pages is so inspiring. Being open about my feelings etc., is something I've always found really difficult but when I read the stories of others, I do feel like I'm not on my own.

I'm not exactly sure where I am at the moment, recovery wise I mean. Yesterday was my last session at Pieta House and I haven't self harmed since last August. It'd be a lie if I said I never think about self harming these days. I think about it. I haven't yet found a replacement. Self harm, for me, was the calm, the relief. Sometimes I feel like I'm drowning. It may sound dramatic, but I feel so overcome with sadness (or it can be anger, anxiety etc.) that it surrounds me, like water, and it's all I can feel. Cutting myself is the only thing that ever made that go away for me. I could feel something else.

Next week, I'm beginning bereavement counselling. It's been almost 10 years since my granny died and my psychiatrist thinks I never really moved on from that, she thinks I'm stuck at 12 years old. And the sad thing is that I am. My granny was who I lived with for years, who took care of me, who I turned to and then she was gone and I began desperately trying to fill that void.

I'm actually really ashamed of a lot of the things I've done. It was a horrible spiral of self destructive behaviour. I cut myself. I drank. A lot. I often drove whilst drunk. I hate myself for that, truly. I slept with people to try take the loneliness away but it only made me feel more empty. I got pregnant because I was careless, and when I miscarried, I guess it sent me over the edge. I took drugs. I attempted suicide a couple of times.

Right now, my diagnosis is bi-polar. I tend not to be depressed all of the time, just go through periods of it. At other times, I'm impulsive, feel like I can do anything, indestructible. It's really hard because I cannot get myself out of the depressions. I write down what I feel so I can show my psychiatrist and sometimes, when I read back my own thoughts, I'm horrified. I haven't found a medication or a combination of medication that works for me yet.

My battle with grief, and then mental illness has consumed a huge part of life. It's been almost 5 years since I did my Leaving Cert and I still haven't managed to complete a full year of college. All of my relationships are affected. To be honest, I spend a hell of a lot of time just being frustrated. Frustrated that I can't motivate or dedicate myself. Frustrated that I can't explain how or why I feel certain ways. Frustrated that I'm not where I thought I'd be at this point of my life.

I've heard people say things about me - "nutjob" etc., and it isn't something that makes me any less willing to speak out. It doesn't bug me. It makes me wish more people could understand, that's all. Being mentally ill isn't being crazy.

Anyway, this was not meant to be so long. I hope everyone is doing okay. I am always, always, always here for anyone who might need someone to talk to.

amacachi

Jay P wrote: »

I was diagnosed with depression 3 days before Christmas, and since then I've just gotten worse and worse. Talking about it is incredibly difficult, and I spent days wondering if I should say something to my parents, or just hope it would go away. In the end I said it to them and saw my GP who prescribed me anti-depressants.

Hate hearing that.

In March I went back to my GP and he increased the dosage of the anti-depressants and referred me to a psychiatrist. He also recommended that I talk to a counsellor, but I haven't worked up the courage to do that yet... Anyway, I only saw the psychiatrist on Friday, and she was lovely. I felt comfortable telling her stuff that I find hard even thinking about... And she prescribed me a different medication because the other one had no effect at all, and scheduled another appointment for June, so hopefully I'll see an improvement before then....

I haven't told very many people about it purely because I find it so hard to talk about. Aside from my parents, I've only told people when I've been drunk. I sometimes fit the title of "Classic emotional drunk" One of my friends has been brilliant though, I feel comfortable enough to tell him when I'm feeling shit. It helps being able to verbalize that kind of thing.

The last few months have been pretty tough. It's been very hard to live with depression, the feelings of sadness and lethargy are horrible, but the helplessness is the hardest thing to live with.

What age are you?

Mollikins

I just have to say if it wasn’t for people being so open on Boards, and in particular C&H, about their struggle with mental illness (especially Konata and Novella) that I might not still be here. It’s horrible that others have gone through or are going through the same thing as you are experiencing but it’s great to know that you are not alone too.

I might come back and talk a little about how depression has affected my life another time. I find it really hard to talk about it and I guess it’s still only sinking in. I’ve got a pretty important appointment with my doctor in the morning so we’ll see how that goes.

Seren_

+ 1 Mollikins. I was talking to someone earlier about being depressed, and it got me thinking about how important this thread was (and is) for me. When you're feeling really awful it's hard to think that anyone else has ever felt that way, but this showed me that they do and they get better, and then that means you can get through it too.

Seriously, so much love for everyone

flyswatter

Novella, that nutjob comment makes me angry. Peoples attitudes in this country are pretty bad to be honest these days. I'll probably end up living in some other country til things get better. Many famous people have had bipolar and other illnesses like that, I could list them off quickly at this stage! So these things are nothing to feel guilty about. Sinead O Connor for example. Best of luck!

Davidius

Forgive me if I manage to come across as offensive by this post but I'm a little skeptical about the earlier argument that a lower reported rate of eating disorders in men can be explained by men being unwilling to admit to it due to a stigma.

If the Wikipedia stats are correct, that is that there is a 10-1 ratio of women to men in the case of anorexia then the aforementioned explanation seems a bit too hand-wavy. I would think it is within reason to conclude that there exists some motivating factor that is much more prevalent in women than in men, the likely culprit being a larger expectation that women look good.

That is not to say that male cases are less serious or that they never happen and it might be of interest to identify any prevalent factors in a male population and see how (if any) differ from those found in females.

If it were true that there had been a rise in incidences of anorexia in males then would it be objectionable to make the conjecture that this would be a result of an increased expectation that men also look good? (It seems for some reason that we're expected to wash more than once every three weeks which is pretty ludicrous when you think about it.)

It's almost 5am so I'm just throwing a couple of basic ideas out that will probably in retrospect be either obvious or inane.

Lawliet

I don't think anyone claimed that anorexia and bulimia rates were the same for men and women, people were arguing against the idea that they're a "female thing," which would insultingly imply that men who suffer from these diseases are some sort of freakish rarity.

Also the fact is eating disorders are a lot harder to diagnosis in men: when a girl loses a lot of weight in a short space of time it sets of alarm bells, but when a guy does it, people don't jump to the same conclusions. The ratio of men to women suffers could very well be higher than anyone knows.

Novella

Mollikins wrote: »

I just have to say if it wasn’t for people being so open on Boards, and in particular C&H, about their struggle with mental illness (especially Konata and Novella) that I might not still be here. It’s horrible that others have gone through or are going through the same thing as you are experiencing but it’s great to know that you are not alone too.

I might come back and talk a little about how depression has affected my life another time. I find it really hard to talk about it and I guess it’s still only sinking in. I’ve got a pretty important appointment with my doctor in the morning so we’ll see how that goes.

I hope your appointment went okay.

flyswatter wrote: »

Novella, that nutjob comment makes me angry. Peoples attitudes in this country are pretty bad to be honest these days. I'll probably end up living in some other country til things get better. Many famous people have had bipolar and other illnesses like that, I could list them off quickly at this stage! So these things are nothing to feel guilty about. Sinead O Connor for example. Best of luck!

Do you know what? I've never actually had anyone who knows me IRL say anything negative in relation to me being unwell or whatever. I mean, sure, there have been a lot of fights I guess, with people striving so hard to understand and sort of becoming angry that they couldn't, but no one in my family or friends has ever said to me that I'm 'crazy' etc.

The honest truth is the worst I've gotten it is from Boards users and ones who would never have spoken to me. I had (well still have) a blog and as I'm sure others know, when you let your guard down, when you show where your weakness lies, people will pounce on it.

That's why I've never taken it too seriously. I know the problem isn't with me. I think of it like this - I have a younger brother who is really tall, he's 6'6" and people call him things like "lanky" to try annoy him. He knows he's tall. I know I'm mentally ill. People just pick on the obvious but in reality, their problem lies elsewhere, they just can't or won't say it.

Personally, overall I don't think the attitude in Ireland is too bad. I think maybe there is a lack of knowledge out there, but ime, when you talk, people do listen and they do try to 'get it'. If people don't, I would see that as their issue really.

Oh, and thanks for the luck!

Aoibheann

Davidius wrote: »

If the Wikipedia stats are correct, that is that there is a 10-1 ratio of women to men in the case of anorexia then the aforementioned explanation seems a bit too hand-wavy. I would think it is within reason to conclude that there exists some motivating factor that is much more prevalent in women than in men, the likely culprit being a larger expectation that women look good.

+1 to everything Lawliet said, it's not that we're saying it's as common in men, but we're saying that it does happen, that it's not just a female thing, contrary to some beliefs expressed here.

From having a quick look into it myself, the ratio seems to be 4:1 in Ireland anyway (as I mentioned earlier) so it's a lot more common than most might think and it does seem to be on the up because the ratio was a lot more like the 10:1 you stated some years ago.