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waltersobchak

jaykhunter wrote: »

Walter, you're completely entitled to your opinion, that's fair enough, I think it's awesome you think so highly of Sheamus!

Can you list off a few matches and promos that Sheamus has done for you to think he's the best in the world right now?

Same with Orton?

To be perfectly honest, do you really think i need to justify Randy Orton as being the best wrestler in the world today(kayfabe or not) do you not watch WWE? Really thats a non issue... And imho he's had a far better year (and inparticular 6 months) than AJ Flair..

Whereas Sheamus is my own personal opinion of being wrestler of the year, as i've personally enjoyed his rise to the top, and have found both his ring work, and promos vastly inproved to the point of him being one of the most enjoyable things about WWE, i'd also hazzard a guess that he must have one of the best win/loss records in WWE and for a poll/list thats based on win/loss records, that will place him high on the list.

jaykhunter

That's fair enough with Sheamus. Although since he's a (cowardly) heel, he doesn't win a lot week to week, i'm guessing.

Honestly, I can't stand Orton lately, hence me asking.

I don't wanna decrease your enjoyment of Orton, this is just my opinion, but if you don't mind that then read on.....

His monotonous/emotionless promos annoy me, and his match structure bugs me too. If you cut out the last exchanges/the finish of the vast majority of his matches, they'd be mediocre at best. It's just passing out the time, until he goes into the flurry of near falls and big moves in the last 2 minutes. And everyone seems to only remember the great finish, and not the 15-minute snore-fest right before that. It's what I term 'crescendo' wrestling. Of course this isn't always the case, but it's generally the case. And it bugs the crap outta me!

He's slow and safe, but injects none/little of the deviousness/heel antics that I saw in his evolution work, or even his amazing facials during certain matches against Triple H or Cena.

On a different point, it annoys me that he hasn't fully committed to being a face. He's basically the same as when he was heel, wrestling against Cena. He has his tiny flip-out, and that gets a pop, but never engages or works the crowd into a frenzy.

chopperbyrne

jaykhunter wrote: »

That's fair enough with Sheamus. Although since he's a (cowardly) heel, he doesn't win a lot week to week, i'm guessing.

Honestly, I can't stand Orton lately, hence me asking.

I don't wanna decrease your enjoyment of Orton, this is just my opinion, but if you don't mind that then read on.....

His monotonous/emotionless promos annoy me, and his match structure bugs me too. If you cut out the last exchanges/the finish of the vast majority of his matches, they'd be mediocre at best. It's just passing out the time, until he goes into the flurry of near falls and big moves in the last 2 minutes. And everyone seems to only remember the great finish, and not the 15-minute snore-fest right before that. It's what I term 'crescendo' wrestling. Of course this isn't always the case, but it's generally the case. And it bugs the crap outta me!

He's slow and safe, but injects none/little of the deviousness/heel antics that I saw in his evolution work, or even his amazing facials during certain matches against Triple H or Cena.

On a different point, it annoys me that he hasn't fully committed to being a face. He's basically the same as when he was heel, wrestling against Cena. He has his tiny flip-out, and that gets a pop, but never engages or works the crowd into a frenzy.

He isn't supposed to be fully committed to being a face. He's still playing the Viper character, just he's so good the fans won't boo him. This is very similar to Austins initial face run, except Randy has no babyface catchphrases.

waltersobchak

jaykhunter wrote: »

That's fair enough with Sheamus. Although since he's a (cowardly) heel, he doesn't win a lot week to week, i'm guessing.

Honestly, I can't stand Orton lately, hence me asking.

I don't wanna decrease your enjoyment of Orton, this is just my opinion, but if you don't mind that then read on.....

His monotonous/emotionless promos annoy me, and his match structure bugs me too. If you cut out the last exchanges/the finish of the vast majority of his matches, they'd be mediocre at best. It's just passing out the time, until he goes into the flurry of near falls and big moves in the last 2 minutes. And everyone seems to only remember the great finish, and not the 15-minute snore-fest right before that. It's what I term 'crescendo' wrestling. Of course this isn't always the case, but it's generally the case. And it bugs the crap outta me!

He's slow and safe, but injects none/little of the deviousness/heel antics that I saw in his evolution work, or even his amazing facials during certain matches against Triple H or Cena.

On a different point, it annoys me that he hasn't fully committed to being a face. He's basically the same as when he was heel, wrestling against Cena. He has his tiny flip-out, and that gets a pop, but never engages or works the crowd into a frenzy.

Wrestling just like music is completely subjective,and is completely a matter of taste, i know your a Kurt Angle fan Jaykhunter, whereas im not, and its not that i dont think he's a good wrestler, its that i dont particularly enjoy his matches(although i do like some of them) again its a matter just of taste and what one person likes isnt necessarily what another does..

Personally i do enjoy Ortons matches, i think he can(with the right people) tell tremendous stories in the ring(like the 3 way match at Mania, which i personally loved)i also think his facial expression are incredible, and set him apart from everyone else in wrestling at the moment. Also, again where we disagree. I LOVE the fact he's neither face nor heel, and he still retains that snake in the grass persona, which also gives him an edge, which is something thats missing from most wrestlers these days.. Also i think your insanely wrong, in thinking he doesnt work the crowd into a frenzy, the guy gets the biggest pop from the crowd, every single time he hits the RKO, and whoever he hits the move on..

jaykhunter

Fair enough, thanks for explaining. Should've had this discussion on the podcast!! :pac::pac:

Machismo Fan

http://www.f4wonline.com/content/view/14115/

--TNA is trying to put together RVD vs. Jerry Lynn for its 8/8 PPV main event, bringing back one of the best in-ring rivalries in the history of the old ECW.

I'd love to see what those two could do in 2010. RVD can still go and Jerry Lynn is still fantastic for his age.

flahavaj

Machismo Fan wrote: »

http://www.f4wonline.com/content/view/14115/



I'd love to see what those two could do in 2010. RVD can still go and Jerry Lynn is still fantastic for his age.

This I find intriguing enough actually. I have a soft spot for those old Lynn/RVD matches, they were the first matches that I ever saw from the old ECW back in the day and at the time I thought it was the greatest thing I'd ever seen. Lynn can certainly still go anyway.

waltersobchak

flahavaj wrote: »

This I find intriguing enough actually. I have a soft spot for those old Lynn/RVD matches, they were the first matches that I ever saw from the old ECW back in the day and at the time I thought it was the greatest thing I'd ever seen. Lynn can certainly still go anyway.

Jerry Lynn on the road to his 50's is still better than a lot of guys in WWE/TNA thats for damn sure.. I actually wouldnt mind seeing Van Dam/Lynn one last time..

Machismo Fan

From Dixie's Twitter:

Kurt, Mick & Lethal tearing it up in India. Armed security brought in to handle crowd at Delhi mall today.

That's a lot of people.

D2D

To follow up on earlier reports that Pay Per View buyrates for TNA were at dangerously low levels, new reports are surfacing stating that both the May and June TNA PPV events (Sacrifice and Slammiversary) drew approximately 8,000 buys each.

In comparison, the company was averaging around 25,000 to 30,000 back in 2005/2006 when they had a Saturday night timeslot at 11:00 p.m. ET as opposed to a Thursday primetime slot. If the numbers are as accurate as stated, it would seem TNA is actually now losing money running these monthly events when you also factor in the costs of running a live PPV.

One theory was that more people are watching illegal streams of the events online. However, a source that monitors illegal PPV streams online has stated TNA averages about 30 to 50 streams with an average of 1,000 viewers total. Illegal streams for WWE events tend to average 60,000 viewers, while UFC (who has gone after those who illegally stream their events) average in excess of 200,000.

Source: The Figure Four Weekly Newsletter

Machismo Fan

I still question where they got their info. I sincerely doubt that anybody but the very top TNA executives know how TNA do and I really doubt they're leaking info to the Wrestling Observer. I see this no differently than the 'TNA morale is very low' reports that came out a few weeks ago. A disgruntled employee venting. I could be wrong and they're by no means doing very well on PPV but I don't think they're doing that badly.

Headshot

any news on Paul Heyman to TNA?

Machismo Fan

Headshot wrote: »

any news on Paul Heyman to TNA?

Last I read they were still deep in talks.

waltersobchak

In fairness to TNA they're pretty good at keeping big surprises secret but he'll have to appear at Hardcore Justice or else whats the point of this angle?

Machismo Fan

waltersobchak wrote: »

In fairness to TNA they're pretty good at keeping big surprises secret but he'll have to appear at Hardcore Justice or else whats the point of this angle?

To try to pop a decent one night buyrate. They'll probably be ecstatic if they get only 10% of what One Night Stand did.

Furious-Red

The poster has been released for the next TNA PPV

waltersobchak

Machismo Fan wrote: »

To try to pop a decent one night buyrate. They'll probably be ecstatic if they get only 10% of what One Night Stand did.

WWE's gloried raping of ECW since 2006 has killed any interest in the brand, so i'd honestly say they'll struggle to get 10% of that buyrate, as in 2005 the ECW brand still had a certain mystique to that large percentage of WWE fans who had only heard of ECW post invasion, and id say that percentage of fans no longer care about ECW. So unless TNA pull some serious rabbits out of the hat, like RVD vs Lynn, Paul Heyman appearing, and originals like Sandman, Sabu, New Jack, etc etc,they'll unfortunately struggle(but i really hope im wrong) id also love if TNA played off on the ECW New Breed with them bringing back Monty Brown, getting Thorn, and paring them with The Pope, even just for one night, that'd be pretty cool..

Machismo Fan

waltersobchak wrote: »

WWE's gloried raping of ECW since 2006 has killed any interest in the brand, so i'd honestly say they'll struggle to get 10% of that buyrate, as in 2005 the ECW brand still had a certain mystique to that large percentage of WWE fans who had only heard of ECW post invasion, and id say that percentage of fans no longer care about ECW. So unless TNA pull some serious rabbits out of the hat, like RVD vs Lynn, Paul Heyman appearing, and originals like Sandman, Sabu, New Jack, etc etc, id also love if TNA played off on the ECW New Breed with them bringing back Monty Brown, getting Thorn, and paring them with The Pope, even just for one night, that'd be pretty cool..

It could have also built up resentment and made the hardcore fans want to see it done properly and could help TNA. I'd just like to see Monty Brown back in general. He was awesome.

waltersobchak

Machismo Fan wrote: »

It could have also built up resentment and made the hardcore fans want to see it done properly and could help TNA. I'd just like to see Monty Brown back in general. He was awesome.

Well if TNA build it up properly those ECW fans could still join the bandwagon, and if TNA get Heyman involved, well that's the hook that instantly means that demograpic will watch and of course that equals more ratings.. But yeah i always like Monty Brown, love to see him back wrestling, but i think he's completely out of wrestling these days..

Machismo Fan

waltersobchak wrote: »

But yeah i always like Monty Brown, love to see him back wrestling, but i think he's completely out of wrestling these days..

It's a crime that TNA never pulled the trigger on a Monty World title run. Both times he faced Jarrett for the title he should have beaten him.

waltersobchak

Machismo Fan wrote: »

It's a crime that TNA never pulled the trigger on a Monty World title run. Both times he faced Jarrett for the title he should have beaten him.

I know he's left wrestling for family reasons, but have TNA ever tried to persuade him to come back??

Machismo Fan

waltersobchak wrote: »

I know he's left wrestling for family reasons, but have TNA ever tried to persuade him to come back??

I don't remember hearing anything about it. It does indeed unfortunately seem like he's done with wrestling for good.:(

waltersobchak

Machismo Fan wrote: »

I don't remember hearing anything about it. It does indeed unfortunately seem like he's done with wrestling for good.:(

I heard last year somewhere that hes a personal trainer for some Hollywood actor(not too sure who) so perhaps the money is far better than WWE/TNA..

Machismo Fan

http://www.pwinsider.com/article/49303/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-tna-hard-justice-ppv.html?p=1

Since we have been received a lot of email about the 8/8 ECW-themed PPV, here is where the show stands and how is came about, including some items that were previously reported exclusively in the PWInsider.com Elite section over the last week:

The 8/8 TNA Hard Justice PPV became an ECW-themed PPV at last Monday's Impact taping. I was told the company had one direction planned for their angle involving former ECW talents and Dreamer pitched a newer idea and they went with that instead. TNA President Dixie Carter has signed off on Dreamer running the show and it will basically be a one-off ECW show. A lot of people have been pretty impressed with how much trust Dreamer has already been given by management. Dreamer has been contacting talent regarding their availability with Terry Taylor handling the financial end of things.

The PPV will apparently end up with a new title as well. TNA sent a new commercial to their PPV partners several days ago dubbing the 8/8 PPV "Hardcore Justice: One Last Stand." While I have not seen the spot, I am told that the commercial features a brief "ECW" chant. The company will have to be very careful about how they use the ECW letters in regard to the PPV.

Paul Heyman has nothing to do with this angle, so far. My belief is that Heyman wouldn't have gone with this direction, because what does it do to grow the TNA letters and identity, which has been one of his primary criticisms of the company. I am told that the angle is not a sign that negotiations have ended and the two sides are still talking. I am also told this reunion is NOT the big surprise Dixie Carter has been talking about in regard to changes within the company, either. This basically came together very fast over several days last week as a new independent idea for the PPV.

Talent we have confirmed that have been contacted to work and are expected to appear are Jerry Lynn, Sandman, Sabu, Spike Dudley, The FBI, Axl Rotten, Balls Mahoney and Swinger. That said, until contracts are signed, no one is 100% set in stone. Those who were booked were asked to keep their involvement quiet. The hope is to have TNA champion Rob Van Dam vs. Jerry Lynn headlining the PPV, but that is not signed and sealed yet. I am told there are multiple plans for the top matches on the show based on what talents will be available. The plan is to announce two or three matches ahead of time and leave the rest of the card as a surprise, since the original company rarely advertised matches for their events.

There's been an interesting response from former ECW talents. Some were said to have gotten choked up and excited for the show based on a promo cut by Tommy Dreamer that will air on Thursday's Impact. Others have taken a "we've been down this road before" tact and see it as just another show. Outside talents who were contacted were said to have responded in one of two ways. Some were said to be extremely thankful for the chance and excited at seeing the old locker room again. Others were trying to pull a money grab and get as much as they could for the appearance. One story making the rounds in Nashville that got a lot of laughs was a talent who has been off television forever playing hardball and refusing to come in unless he was granted a multi-year contract by TNA.

A source close to Shane Douglas has intimated that Douglas was contacted for the event, but has not agreed to terms. I heard a few days ago that Douglas was pitching the idea of wrestling Ric Flair on the show, but I don't see that as happening. That issue has been long since gone and the two did a program in WCW previously. Plus, I don't see that as working on what is supposed to be an "ECW" themed show.

Yoshihiro Tajiri and Super Crazy are booked for Japanese dates on 8/8, so they are absolutely not available for the PPV. Tajiri is working for New Japan that week while Crazy is booked for All Japan Pro Wrestling on a tour that ends on 8/8. I don't expect we'll see Masato Tanaka either as it's likely too close to the show to get a working visa for him to appear.

Talents who had independent bookings that weekend will be flown in on Sunday morning of the PPV while others will be doing a Saturday meet and greet with fans the night before the PPV at the NASCAR restaurant at Universal Citiwalk.

The company is taking a similar stance to the show that WWE did with the first ECW PPV in that they are trying to book everyone they can to help give it an authentic feel, from the wrestlers to the managers to even referees. I would hope someone will reach out to ECW Founder Tod Gordon, as it was criminal he wasn't asked to become involved in the first WWE ECW PPV and was never mentioned beyond a thank you from Paul Heyman. There's talk of paying homage to ECW talents who won't be at the PPV on the show itself as well.

Reports of a Sandman & Dreamer & New Jack vs. Rhino & Richards & Raven tag are without merit.

While this PPV is the only plans to do something with an "ECW" theme, I am told that there could be additional appearances for some of the talents coming out of it, with them being integrated into TNA storylines. However, nothing is 100% set in stone.

No Tajiri, Crazy or Tanaka is disappointing. Will they have enough people to entirely fill out an ECW show without having to use some TNA guys to plug the holes?

Vince135792003

Machismo Fan wrote: »

No Tajiri, Crazy or Tanaka is disappointing. Will they have enough people to entirely fill out an ECW show without having to use some TNA guys to plug the holes?

I'd say they'll manage it. It really doesn't matter who they get. If they get Sandman, it will be cool and all but he was on WWE tv for about 2 years anyway. So it won't be like the ppv in 2005 when you had alot of ECW guys that hadn't been seen on tv in 5 years. The only name thye could get that would made any difference to the ppv is Paul Heyman. The fact that he is not involved hurts it.


The biggest selling point for me is how/will they pull it off?

How will they create an ECW vibe without being able to use the actual word?

If they are doing the show in Disney, how will they try to give the place the same feel as doing it in Hammerstein?

Will they spend the money on all the signature music for each wrestler?

So they have alot of things working against them but it will be interesting to see if they can pull it off well.

D2D

Meltzer is saying Heyman negotiations have gone cold, but are not dead. Heyman want's to be able to hire/fire staff, which Dixie is unlikely to give him. Meltzer also says the widespread belief in TNA is Hogan/Bischoff not turning up for the last tapings was a power play gone wrong; they believed ratings would fall without them and they were wrong. Also says people are increasingly questioning what value Eric Bischoff has to TNA, some are saying he contributes little.

flahavaj

An ECW-themed PPV is gonna suck monkey balls. It was great when WWE did it 4-5 years ago, it was mediocre when Hardcore Homecoming was done a while later. This comes across as unbelieveably lame and pointless to me, especially when they can't use the name and anyone physically capable of having a good match is unavailable or works for Vince. Not sure how aping a defunct company that has already has its legacy altered by WWE helps TNA promote its own brand?

F*cking eejits.:pac:

michael.etc...

flahavaj wrote: »

An ECW-themed PPV is gonna suck monkey balls. It was great when WWE did it 4-5 years ago, it was mediocre when Hardcore Homecoming was done a while later. This comes across as unbelieveably lame and pointless to me, especially when they can't use the name and anyone physically capable of having a good match is unavailable or works for Vince. Not sure how aping a defunct company that has already has its legacy altered by WWE helps TNA promote its own brand?

F*cking eejits.:pac:

100% agree with all of this. I'm really glad it looks like Heyman has no involvement, and hopefully will stay out of this mess. But maybe this nonsense is what is finally needed for Dixie and co to wake up and hand the creative reigns over Heyman entirely.

jaykhunter

Ah well we'll wait for the match listing but seeing what stars they have, it's highly likely it'll suck balls......

If TNA can do 25,000 buys for this PPV -- hell, in 15,000 buys it'd be a big achievement (:) but )

geeky

flahavaj wrote: »

An ECW-themed PPV is gonna suck monkey balls. It was great when WWE did it 4-5 years ago, it was mediocre when Hardcore Homecoming was done a while later. This comes across as unbelieveably lame and pointless to me, especially when they can't use the name and anyone physically capable of having a good match is unavailable or works for Vince. Not sure how aping a defunct company that has already has its legacy altered by WWE helps TNA promote its own brand?

F*cking eejits.:pac:

I'd agree with everything except one match. Jerry Lynn can still go (I know he's getting on, but he's in tremendous shape) and so can RVD. But that's not enough to even make me stay up late.

What an absolute clusterf*** this company is becoming. Surely it's only a matter of time before the halfway decent talents are yoinked by Vince.