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Argos question

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  • 16-01-2010 11:02pm
    #1
    Shanehun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭


    Hi
    In feb of 2008 we purchased an L shaped sofa from argos valued at €1048. Was a lovely sofa and we have enjoyed it to an extent so far.the problem we have is that on the arm of the sofa the support for the cushion has failed so all we have left is a fabric covered lenght of timber !
    The back of the sofa where the cushions rest has started to fail also.this means we have a lumpy back to the sofa
    Thirdly the seat of the sofa where the cushions go is all dropped and the rubber/canvas straps are very evident now.
    Its basically an uncomfortable bench now.
    We went to the store where purchased it and explained the issue and were given a free fone number 1800 535 *** which ended in a uk call center.
    They said we only had a 1 year guarantee and it was elapsed and for any further action we would have to hire a upholsterer to make a report on the sofa to determin if it was wear and tear or a manufacturing fault.
    Now we have looked at consumer rights website and citizens advice etc and have gotten some conflicting info.
    As its an expensive sofa it shouls last for longer than 23 months
    Do we have a 2 year guarantee on this item ?
    If so do we have to get a report done on it ourselves?
    What recourse do we have at this point?
    Cheers


Comments

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    #2
    the groutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,096 ✭✭✭✭the groutch


    Shanehun wrote: »
    for any further action we would have to hire a upholsterer to make a report on the sofa to determine if it was wear and tear or a manufacturing fault.

    that doesnt sound unreasonable imo, it has been nearly 2 years


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    #3
    slimjimmc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,786 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    Shanehun wrote: »
    Hi
    In feb of 2008 we purchased an L shaped sofa from argos valued at €1048. Was a lovely sofa and we have enjoyed it to an extent so far.the problem we have is that on the arm of the sofa the support for the cushion has failed so all we have left is a fabric covered lenght of timber !
    The back of the sofa where the cushions rest has started to fail also.this means we have a lumpy back to the sofa
    Thirdly the seat of the sofa where the cushions go is all dropped and the rubber/canvas straps are very evident now.
    Its basically an uncomfortable bench now.
    We went to the store where purchased it and explained the issue and were given a free fone number 1800 535 *** which ended in a uk call center.
    They said we only had a 1 year guarantee and it was elapsed and for any further action we would have to hire a upholsterer to make a report on the sofa to determin if it was wear and tear or a manufacturing fault.
    Now we have looked at consumer rights website and citizens advice etc and have gotten some conflicting info.
    As its an expensive sofa it shouls last for longer than 23 months
    Under your statutory rights the product must be fit for purpose. This includes it being durable enough to last a reasonable amount of use. If you and the shop cannot agree what 'reasonable' means then the Small Claims Court will. I doubt the court would consider 23 months a reasonable lifetime of sofa unless someone has been routinely using it as a trampoline.
    Shanehun wrote: »
    Do we have a 2 year guarantee on this item ?
    No, you just said above you have a 1 year guarantee but if you're in doubt but it would be worth checking your sales slip to confirm what it says.

    Eitherways any guarantee from the shop or the manufacturer is in addition to your statutory rights and the lack or expiry of any guarantee will not affect your rights.
    In Ireland you have up to 6 years (under the Statute of Limitations) to seek redress. Note however that does not necessarily give you a 6 year guarantee if the 'reasonable' life of the product is shorter.
    Shanehun wrote: »
    If so do we have to get a report done on it ourselves?
    What recourse do we have at this point?
    Cheers

    I'm not sure but I would expect the shop to pay for this however I can see their point. If you agree to paying for the report make sure you get a written commitment from the shop to refund you should the report show in your favour. Under the law the consumer must not be out of pocket if the complaint is valid.


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    #4
    Shanehun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭Shanehun


    I was under the impression there is a 2 year guarantee on all products sold under eu law ?
    also i was speaking to a uk call center dealing with argos uk issues ?
    and we have being using the sofa just for the usual watching tv chatting etc, no jumping about at all.
    "Eitherways any guarantee from the shop or the manufacturer is in addition to your statutory rights and the lack or expiry of any guarantee will not affect your rights.
    In Ireland you have up to 6 years (under the Statute of Limitations) to seek redress. Note however that does not necessarily give you a 6 year guarantee if the 'reasonable' life of the product is shorter"
    How does does affect me in relation to this issue.
    I got the impression from argos that they had no interest in dealing with us.

    Cheers


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    #5
    MistyCheese
    Registered Users Posts: 4,005 ✭✭✭MistyCheese


    slimjimmc wrote: »
    Under your statutory rights the product must be fit for purpose. This includes it being durable enough to last a reasonable amount of use. If you and the shop cannot agree what 'reasonable' means then the Small Claims Court will. I doubt the court would consider 23 months a reasonable lifetime of sofa unless someone has been routinely using it as a trampoline

    This makes perfect sense to any sane, sensible, logical individual but for Argos you may need proof, which may prove difficult.


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    #6
    slimjimmc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,786 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    Shanehun wrote: »
    I was under the impression there is a 2 year guarantee on all products sold under eu law ?
    also i was speaking to a uk call center dealing with argos uk issues ?
    and we have being using the sofa just for the usual watching tv chatting etc, no jumping about at all.
    The EU directive requires member states to amend their laws to give at least 2 years protection. It's up to individual states to decide how long but many states give more than 2 years, in Ireland contract law gives you 6 years. Obviously this minimum 2yr rule excludes items which are not intended to last that long.
    Shanehun wrote: »
    "Eitherways any guarantee from the shop or the manufacturer is in addition to your statutory rights and the lack or expiry of any guarantee will not affect your rights.
    In Ireland you have up to 6 years (under the Statute of Limitations) to seek redress. Note however that does not necessarily give you a 6 year guarantee if the 'reasonable' life of the product is shorter"

    How does does affect me in relation to this issue.
    I got the impression from argos that they had no interest in dealing with us.

    Cheers
    It can extend the period of protection you have as a consumer well beyond any guarantee.

    A guarantee is offered to you usually by manufacturer (but sometimes by the shop) at the time of sale and forms part of the sales contract. It's their binding promise to replace or repair the product if a manufacturing defect or other specified defects occur only within a timeframe set by them, eg 1 year. After the guarantee expires the manufacturer is not obliged to do anything for you.

    However, under consumer law, your contract is with Argos (not the manufacturer) and it is the Argos' responsibility (not the manufacturer's) to resolve your complaint even if the guarantee has expired.

    Now, lets assume a sofa would be reasonably expected to last a lot more than 2 years under normal use, lets say 4 years for example. Your manufacturer's guarantee has expired but, under consumer law, Argos are still obliged to offer a repair, replacement or refund because the defect has occured during the reasonable life of the sofa.

    From you posts I gather Argos are not ignoring you, they just want you to prove the product was defective and not abused which is fair enough. If they refuse to deal with you or mess you around then you should consider the Small Claims Court.


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    #7
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    the proof is in the reasonable lifespan of the sofa under normal usage consditions given the amount paid for it materials used etc so a silk covered sofa is not going to have much of a lifespan in a house with 6 or 7 children but the sofas that argos sell are advertised for normal household use so could be reasonably expected to last 4years maybe longer. you make a claim that the sofa shouild last more than 4 years and then it is up to argos to show why its lifespan is only 2 years!


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    #8
    parsi
    Site Banned Posts: 5,904 ✭✭✭parsi


    Back in the days when they used to sell them, Brown Thomas repaired (free) our then-6 year old sofa when a piece cracked. It was collected and returned within a week (IIRC).


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    #9
    Noelisgod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭Noelisgod


    As a former service manager for a furniture retailer I can tell you that 1 years
    guarantee is standard for furniture so in fact argos are doing nothing wrong.
    If the problem with your suite was connected to the frame you would have 5
    years cover by law (structural cover) but your problem is regarding the cushioning etc. so thats completely different. You were probably offered suite
    insurance when you bought it - did you take it? If not then you should have especially if it was for an expensive suite.

    My advice is to follow what argos are saying and let a technician sort it out even if it is at your expence. Although you are saying the suite is faulty etc you have to see it from the retailers point of view - kids could have been jumping on it for ages or its got damaged from other wear and tear or any
    other number of possibilities. Bottom line is buy insurance on expensive items!


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    #10
    slimjimmc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,786 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    Noelisgod wrote: »
    As a former service manager for a furniture retailer I can tell you that 1 years guarantee is standard for furniture so in fact argos are doing nothing wrong.
    Agreed, because they haven't refused to deal with the complaint.
    Noelisgod wrote: »
    If the problem with your suite was connected to the frame you would have 5 years cover by law (structural cover) but your problem is regarding the cushioning etc. so thats completely different.
    I'm not aware of any law that says sofas must have 5 years structural cover, however if a guarantee of X years is given then it is legally binding for X years. If a manufacturer or shop offers only 4 years cover are they still forced to provide 5 years cover?
    Noelisgod wrote: »
    You were probably offered suite insurance when you bought it - did you take it? If not then you should have especially if it was for an expensive suite.
    As far as I'm aware doesn't most insurance only cover against manufacturing defects and accidental damage and not misuse. It can be useful especially when an item has essentially gone past it's expected duration but that's not the situation here I believe. From what the OP has written it appears the sofa is no longer useable after only 23 months of normal use. Whether or not it was the cushions or the frame that has failed is immaterial to the consumer, the end effect is that the sofa is not doing what it was purchased to do. This is already covered by various laws and insurance isn't really needed for this situation. He could of course have opted to buy insurance if he wished but why pay extra for something you're entitled to by law?
    If it turns out that the sofa is damaged from abuse, then neither consumer rights nor insurance would be of any help.
    Noelisgod wrote: »
    My advice is to follow what argos are saying and let a technician sort it out even if it is at your expence. Although you are saying the suite is faulty etc you have to see it from the retailers point of view - kids could have been jumping on it for ages or its got damaged from other wear and tear or any other number of possibilities.
    Agreed, this what the inspection should determine. What follows depends on the results.
    Noelisgod wrote: »
    Bottom line is buy insurance on expensive items!
    See above.


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    #11
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Noelisgod wrote: »
    As a former service manager for a furniture retailer I can tell you that 1 years
    guarantee is standard for furniture so in fact argos are doing nothing wrong.
    what about a customers statutory rights? or dont furniture retailers believe in such rights?
    If the problem with your suite was connected to the frame you would have 5
    years cover by law
    what law?
    My advice is to follow what argos are saying and let a technician sort it out even if it is at your expence. Although you are saying the suite is faulty etc you have to see it from the retailers point of view - kids could have been jumping on it for ages or its got damaged from other wear and tear or any
    other number of possibilities.
    yes of course kids could have been dancing on the furniture but argos are obliged to deal with this and they are doing nothing!

    op go back to the argos that you ordered your sofa from and tell them to arrange to have the sofa collected and examined instead of giving you some number of a third party in england.


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    #12
    Noelisgod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭Noelisgod


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    yes of course kids could have been dancing on the furniture but argos are obliged to deal with this and they are doing nothing!

    Dont be so naive - furniture is a wear and tear product that naturally depreciates over time. Retailers are oblidged to deliver you a product that is of merchantible quality and is fit for its purpose. From looking at this case argos did nothing wrong but I will admit that the problems with the OP's suite is severe considering they have had it just two years.

    If your really annoyed OP threaten the small claims court re this case. Trust
    me they will probably pay for the repair (you wont get a replacement) because if it went to the small claims court you would win as do 90% of consumer cases. The judges always side with the consumer and I've been in court enough times on behalf of my former employer to say that as a fact.


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