Gaming Mice

gizmo

Originally had a Razer Diamondback for about 4 years until it finally kicked the bucket with a known internal wiring flaw. Replaced it with the newer Copperhead and I love that too. Haven't tried the Deathadder but I've heard really good things about it.

As for Logitech, they're not my cup of tea as I prefer a smaller mouse. Most of my mates have them and swear by them however.

Fact of the matter is, you need to test both types (Razer and Logitech) and see which fits. There's no chance of making an informed decision otherwise.

Overheal

TheDoc wrote: »

Ask anyone with half an IT brain, and they would tell you, if you had the choice, pick wired over wirless, everytime. BETTER everytime!

Mathematically yes. In practice, this latency of at most, 2ms and frequently >1ms, is Negligible. Unnoticeable, even. You'll still be on top of scoreboards.

And I like to think I do have half an IT brain, mind you.

SeantheMan

Gaming mousemat makes a difference, can't reccomend steelpad enough

humanji

It doesn't matter what mouse I use. I'm just that good!

and I stick to turn based strategy so I'm not brought down my bad reflexes *cough*

Seriously though, mice generally don't make a difference to me, I'll use whatever is there. I'm currently still using the MX Revolution and still love it.

i_am_dogboy

humanji wrote: »

Seriously though, mice generally don't make a difference to me, I'll use whatever is there. I'm currently still using the MX Revolution and still love it.

While a lot of people would contend your point, you're right about it not making a difference, I know having a better mouse doesn't make me any better, I just like having new toys. When I had my ****ty ps2 mouse and no money, I was playing games quite competitively and successfully, similarly one of the better left 4 dead 2 players I play with uses some 6 euro laptop mouse he got in argos a few years ago.

thebman

TheDoc wrote: »

Ask anyone with half an IT brain, and they would tell you, if you had the choice, pick wired over wirless, everytime. BETTER everytime!

People in IT with half a brain assess the requirements and make a recommendation based on that and will tell you the pro and cons of that choice.

How is the 1-2ms loss really going to effect you? I'd wager you don't have a grasp on how short a period of time it really is.

An average persons reaction time is about .15 of a second (if your faster than this, good for you, I know I am :P). That is 150ms. Bumping that up by 2ms is unlikely to effect the outcome even if there was no lag/latency between you and the other user and he/she was using a wired mouse.

Spunog UIE

Just to chime in on the G9. I've had it ages now and its awesome. Felt as big a jump from whatever crap mouse I was using to the original mx500. Can't say enough about it, comfortable in the hand, perfect response and smooth.

I also liked the Razer Diamond back in the day definite the a bargain buy.

Oh and to mix things up...a warning. Do not ever get the Razer Lachesis. Its one of the worst mice I ever had. Truly terrible and utterly expensive disappointment.

TheDoc

thebman wrote: »

People in IT with half a brain assess the requirements and make a recommendation based on that and will tell you the pro and cons of that choice.

How is the 1-2ms loss really going to effect you? I'd wager you don't have a grasp on how short a period of time it really is.

An average persons reaction time is about .15 of a second (if your faster than this, good for you, I know I am :P). That is 150ms. Bumping that up by 2ms is unlikely to effect the outcome even if there was no lag/latency between you and the other user and he/she was using a wired mouse.

My point made the distinction between wireless and wired.

so you agree that a wired mouse performs better, only slightly, but it does perform better...

PogMoThoin

I went from Logitech wireless mx1000 to Saitek gm3200 wired mouse and there's no way I'd ever go back to a wireless mouse for gaming, its very noticable. The young fella still uses the wireless one, I just hate it now, its fine for browsing, just not for gaming

thebman

TheDoc wrote: »

My point made the distinction between wireless and wired.

Not really, you said wired was better everytime. When you can't be near equipment the wires will be a pain and the performance decrease from going wireless being negligible means that your putting up with the hassle of wires for pretty much no difference.

It is completely subjective which is better in that circumstance.

so you agree that a wired mouse performs better, only slightly, but it does perform better...

It depends on the application. You have to read though to see what I'm saying and stop just assuming your right :rolleyes:

Jazzy

no bman, im afraid wired mice kick the ass off of wireless ones. when you are really pushing your response times to the limit then you dont use a wireless, simple as. name me one professional player that uses a wireless and i might entertain the argument. posting a few numbers on this thread doesnt make a lick of difference, playing whatever game does and wireless mice do not cut it at the high end of gaming.

monitor lag (tft)
internet connection lag
human lag

you dont need to add mouse lag to this and you shouldnt

AlmightyCushion

I'm using the logitech G500 and I find it great. I really like the really spinny scroll wheel. very hand when browsing.

Nehaxak

In regards to lag and improving response times etc., even in World of Warcraft there is an addon/mod you can get that casts a spell/heal/ability when you press the corresponding key, rather than cast it after you release the key which is normally the case. Depending on the player and so, it can save a massive amount of time between reacting to cast an ability/spell to when it is actually cast.
If people will go to an extreme like that, in a game where it's not so much a twitch response as in an FPS, you can bet a good player will take a top end wired mouse over a wireless jobby to shave a few Ms off their response times.

Besides all that, there's nothing worse than your batteries running out in the wireless in the heat of a fight :mad:

the_syco

Have a Razer Deathadder. It's nice. IMO, get one that you like the feel of. Go INTO the shops, and hold the mouse, before you buy it. This can make all the difference.

SeantheMan wrote: »

Gaming mousemat makes a difference, can't reccomend steelpad enough

Agreed. Got this a while back - it's great. No more having to slide over the same small bit of pad to turn around

i_am_dogboy

Jazzy wrote: »

no bman, im afraid wired mice kick the ass off of wireless ones. when you are really pushing your response times to the limit then you dont use a wireless, simple as. name me one professional player that uses a wireless and i might entertain the argument. posting a few numbers on this thread doesnt make a lick of difference, playing whatever game does and wireless mice do not cut it at the high end of gaming.

monitor lag (tft)
internet connection lag
human lag

you dont need to add mouse lag to this and you shouldnt

Seems you've eaten a few too many logitech press releases or something, his point is valid, the response time is small enough that you wouldn't notice the difference, you might have it in your head that you would, but you wouldn't.

docdolittle

I have a logitech G9 and a roccat sense mouse pad, it's been awesome until recently... My scroll wheel stopped working, now I've to find how to fix it! To Google!:p

thebman

Jazzy wrote: »

no bman, im afraid wired mice kick the ass off of wireless ones. when you are really pushing your response times to the limit then you dont use a wireless, simple as. name me one professional player that uses a wireless and i might entertain the argument. posting a few numbers on this thread doesnt make a lick of difference, playing whatever game does and wireless mice do not cut it at the high end of gaming.

monitor lag (tft)
internet connection lag
human lag

you dont need to add mouse lag to this and you shouldnt

Mouse lag is by far the smallest of those lag elements. Human lag is the biggest. If your going to worry about mouse lag, you should be worrying about how much energy must be placed on the button to press it as it is probably causing about as much of a delay.

Your right that people that obsess over eliminating lag will not accept wireless mice, doesn't mean the mouse lag is having any effect on the outcome.

I use a wireless keyboard and mouse now and I've not noticed any decrease in my ability to play and I play against people that play competitively. People here are obviously struggling to realise how long 2ms is.

When added to the other lag elements you have to put up with it just makes it looks as insignificant as it is.

Pro gamers will not accept it, that is a small subsection of people that play games with very specific requirements, for the vast majority of people it will make absolutely no difference whatsoever. Even for pro gamers, the vast majority of the time it will have had no difference on the outcome if they were using wireless over wired.

Honestly it matters so little its not worth arguing about. Different people have different requirements. Pro gamers are paranoid about lag so will try to eliminate it everywhere regardless of it has an effect. That is a very specific requirement for a small subset of people.

That is why all the consoles went Wireless, wireless has come on a lot and is much more robust than when it first arrived on the market for user peripherals like keyboards and mice. I've used both and the biggest problem with wireless devices isn't the lag, its the requirement of batteries and once they drop below a certain level, they will not be able to transmit properly and thats when the lag occurs and you need to change the batteries.

Just a pain to feed them batteries but they last for ages these days on batteries anyway.

Jazzy

i_am_dogboy wrote: »

Seems you've eaten a few too many logitech press releases or something, his point is valid, the response time is small enough that you wouldn't notice the difference, you might have it in your head that you would, but you wouldn't.

OR i have actually tested it myself and then had a mate test it too...
he was using a G7 and then i had him use the G5 (same mouse only with a wire) and he noticed his aim improve. this is down to a few things, not just the "2ms" which ppl here seem to be using as some sort of 'unstoppable fact'. the wire acts also as a balance to the mouse letting you feel it a lot better and gives you a sense of security, all which have factors in how you aim.

as cooller said recently in IEM when he was hitting 70% rail accuracy, its all about feeling the mouse. confidence in you and the equipment, with that your performance improves. its the same reason that when you play at the highest level you dont want to be playing on a tft monitor. ever notice the fact that those starcraft guys in korea only play on big old crts ? same thing. "but this tft is only 4ms" doesnt make a difference, it is slower and you do notice.

in all, wireless for fun, wired for f**king

thebman wrote: »

Even for pro gamers, the vast majority of the time it will have had no difference on the outcome if they were using wireless over wired.

lol

the_syco

thebman wrote: »

Even for pro gamers, the vast majority of the time it will have had no difference on the outcome if they were using wireless over wired.

Pro gamers usally play at LANs. Having a wireless may be okay at home, but using one at a large LAN runs the risk of someone else having the same wireless mouse.

I actually got a wireless MS mouse when my logitech trackman mouse died, but got a Deathadder for a LAN, and never went back. One main reason: the only thing worse than running out of batteries during a game is running out of batteries in a competition whilst at a LAN at 2am, with no shops open nearby, and the inabailty to drive as you've been drinking

In saying that, if I ever go the HTPC route, I'm getting a wireless logitech trackman mouse. Those mice ruled, and a wireless one would be epic :P

thebman

Jazzy wrote: »

OR i have actually tested it myself and then had a mate test it too...
he was using a G7 and then i had him use the G5 (same mouse only with a wire) and he noticed his aim improve. this is down to a few things, not just the "2ms" which ppl here seem to be using as some sort of 'unstoppable fact'. the wire acts also as a balance to the mouse letting you feel it a lot better and gives you a sense of security, all which have factors in how you aim.

That is most likely down to just being used to a wired device though. Given time to adapt properly to a wireless mouse would eliminate aim being off.

If all you've played with is a wired mouse then of course going wireless will take time to get used to not having the wire there.

I moved from wired to wireless recently and after getting used to it, my aim is better than it was as the cable can't get trapped on anything or annoy me as it isn't there.

"but this tft is only 4ms" doesnt make a difference, it is slower and you do notice.

Its irrelevant if someone thinks they are noticing or not. I've lost count of the times people have yelled oh it was lag when I killed them. It doesn't make it so.

I've studied the eye and how it works with the brain sending images and messages over your nerves. It would actually ignore many changes over 4ms anyway and so you wouldn't even see them. A lot of this claims of lag is a like a hypochondriac and the wired mouse is the persons placebo.

lol

whatever, I'll trust years of studies by published scientists over your word that it is making a massive, significant difference.

Jazzy

then why did I have problems adjusting to my tft? why does every player have problems with the switch? are we all hypochondriacs that are making it up?

"whatever, I'll trust years of studies by published scientists over your word that it is making a massive, significant difference."

so basically, you dont get it