NCT changes - tinted windows and noise

cpoh1

si_guru wrote: »

Legally?

Yes indeed, the first car was made in 1991 and meets NCT emissions limits with no cat in place, on pre 1993 cars there is much more lenient enissions laws. My second car recently passed its nct with full aftermarket exhaust with no cat on emmisions, this car had a remap though.

Matt Simis

For those wondering what an exhaust sounds like (on a car that isnt a 1.4l $hit box) on a loud car (5.6l V12 BMW 850CSI), this morning I recorded the sound along with an Iphone based SPL Volume meter. The IPhone is positioned between the 4 exhaust tips (only 2 shown in the video), approx 1meter from the car. This is the second exhaust I fitted to this car, the stock one rusted up and was scrapped, the first replacement was too loud (deafening in the car and outside) and this is the second replacement, a pair of Magnaflow 12198 back boxes. Stock Cat and Crossover are still installed, other than paying over EUR2k for OEM, this is a quiet as it gets.

The car was warm, but not driven, so I suspect it will get a bit lower in reading when driven a while. However it was recorded outdoors, recording indoors in the NCT test centre could heavily skew the results.
I took it from idle to just over 4k rpm and recorded the levels (as you see on the iPhone):

Peak Readings
Idle - 98dB
2k - 90dB
3k - 100db briefly
4k - 97dB

Sound level from the side or front of car is way lower, this is worst case.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPjSUc5-S5Y

The sound itself is a bit off due to the built in Mic on the camera being so close to the sound source.


I used to liaise with a test lab testing company products (Portable Music players) SPL for EU Directive compliance (max of 99dB), so I would be fairly well versed in sound pressure testing (though of course this is no Pro level test). Usually the measured and reported sound level isnt just one spike, its a weighted average, so the above would have actually passed, if my readings are correct.

USER X

I think the noise limit should only apply to cars under 2L. An AM Vanquish, DB9, BMW M series, Audi's RS series and the super sports cars (amongst others) all sound like music to my ears! Love the howl out a good engine as it tears down the road, not exceeding the speed limit of course

Someone posted earlier about taking their car out for track days... Check your insurance policy details, your insurance is invalid if you use the car for track use, speed testing etc..

I wish the government/RSA would bring in mandatory re-testing every 5 years, id have no problem doing the test every 5 years and it would cut out peoples bad habbits like a$$holes who dont indicate before cutting across the front of you. Another thing I would really like to see is further courses and training for those who break the law like they have in the UK which is issued by the courts. More of the sneaky speed traps the Gardai have been using lately, as much as we hate them, would help as they are effective in getting people to slow down.

Tints, I dont think they are as popular as they once were and they do need to be kept below a certain level of opacity to allow the driver to see the car's side mirrors.

Does anyone else feel like things are getting a bit too politically correct and theres no margin for people to have fun, for men to be men enjoying engines and the sound of a powerful car? I wonder what Mr T would have to say about this pansying about, I think if some people had their way we'd all be driving smart cars, VW polos, or cars with a 1L engine not capable of more than 50 Kph.....

rudedog

Cosmo K wrote: »

There are actually a couple of more 'interesting' changes to the NCT:

11. Vehicle Registration/Licensing Certificate
The details of the Vehicle Registration/Licensing Certificate which must be presented at NCT will be compared to the vehicle. Any discrepancies will be notified to the owner/presenter and Vehicle Registration Unit. Even if the vehicle passes all other aspects of the test, a test certificate will not be issued until the discrepancies are corrected.

[/B]

About time on this one, i am fed up looking at the autotrader each week to see something like this "FOR SALE: BMW M3, down as 318is on the book!!" OR "Toyota Glanza 1.3 Turbo, down as 1.3 Starlet on the book!"

This is crazy, i see so many young lads driving around in the likes of BMW M3's and these Toyota Glanza (Starlet) imports simply because they can get the insurance and tax on them cheap due to the fact that the logbook says the car is something it is not. Hopefully with these new rules we will get some of these young guys off the roads in some of these higher power cars which they are neither insured or taxed legitimately on in the first place.

stevenmu

si_guru wrote: »

..and despite all you people who think you have a special case... 99% of cars with tints and peco (remember them?) exhausts are driven by morons who have little or no respect for other road users, pedestrains or local residents.

I am not wrong am I?

I agree that setting limits for tints (which can be dangerous) and exhaust noise (which can be anti-social, or possibly even dangerous if loud enough) is a good idea. The problem I have is that this is being touted as a way of cracking down on the "morons who have little or no respect for other road users, pedestrains or local residents", but the fact is that taking away their tints and loud exhausts isn't going to suddenly make them better and more conscientious drivers.

The RSA imho has developed a worrying trend for scapegoating and spouting populist nonsense.

Frank_Leach

hellboy99 wrote: »

http://www.rsa.ie/NEWS/News/MINISTER_FOR_TRANSPORT_ANNOUNCES_CHANGES_TO_THE_NATIONAL_CAR_TEST_(NCT).html

The 47% figure they mention wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that there are more 10+ year old cars on the road than newer ones.

Cars that are 10 years old or more are "more likely to be involved in a collision", what the hell has this got to do with the NCT, that's just a ridiculous statement.

Who comes up with this crap :rolleyes:

Damn! Such nonsense is typical of this country!!
I got a 13 year old Mitsubishi Lancer, and it is in better condition than most of my friends 5-6 year olds.
Am planning to upgrade to BMW 525 1998, but maybe this new bit of insanity might slow me down..

hellboy99

Frank_Leach wrote: »

Originally Posted by hellboy99

The 47% figure they mention wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that there are more 10+ year old cars on the road than newer ones.

Cars that are 10 years old or more are "more likely to be involved in a collision", what the hell has this got to do with the NCT, that's just a ridiculous statement.

Damn! Such nonsense is typical of this country!!
I got a 13 year old Mitsubishi Lancer, and it is in better condition than most of my friends 5-6 year olds.
Am planning to upgrade to BMW 525 1998, but maybe this new bit of insanity might slow me down..

You really do have to laugh at such a comment, so what he's really saying then is that all 10+ year old cars are unsafe to drive , if thats the case why the hell go to the bother of putting your car through an NCT, talk about a contradiction :rolleyes:

Tenzor07

USER X wrote: »

I think the noise limit should only apply to cars under 2L. An AM Vanquish, DB9, BMW M series, Audi's RS series and the super sports cars (amongst others) all sound like music to my ears! Love the howl out a good engine as it tears down the road, not exceeding the speed limit of course

NCT will test cars like this according to the specs of the car, so once the manufactuer says a DB9 exhaust is say 100db at 3k rpm then it will pass whereas a VW Polo won't at the same level.

All this testing means nothing if there is no enforcement on the road, the Gardai "Traffic Corps" out with decibel meters and also a Tint meter.. which going by the current level of the traffic corps visibilty and enforcement on the roads then i cant see the new NCT rules being effective.

Matt Simis

Tenzor07 wrote: »

NCT will test cars like this according to the specs of the car, so once the manufactuer says a DB9 exhaust is say 100db at 3k rpm then it will pass whereas a VW Polo won't at the same level.

What are you basing that on?

JHMEG

Matt Simis wrote: »

For those wondering what an exhaust sounds like (on a car that isnt a 1.4l $hit box)

Matt, that's the gayest looking soundmeter I've ever seen. Doesn't go with the whole V12 thing!

Gently opening the throttle like that will not show the full potential for noise tho. Briefly floor it, with sudden on and off the throttle for the full effect.

JHMEG

Tenzor07 wrote: »

NCT will test cars like this according to the specs of the car, so once the manufactuer says a DB9 exhaust is say 100db at 3k rpm then it will pass whereas a VW Polo won't at the same level.

Manufacturers make their cars/exhausts so that they are legal (noise pollution wise) in whatever market they were made for, which would be UK in our case.

Tenzor07

Matt Simis wrote: »

What are you basing that on?

Can't find the article on this to hand but have read that each manufactuer, e.g. Ferrari will have an agreement with the EU with regards to tyre and exhaust noise.. I'm sure each EU member state can alter this on a national level.

Can't see high performance car owners being forced by law to further slience the exhaust of a 911 or a DB9 which they legally purchased in ROI.

KamiKazi

Tenzor07 wrote: »

All this testing means nothing if there is no enforcement on the road, the Gardai "Traffic Corps" out with decibel meters and also a Tint meter.. which going by the current level of the traffic corps visibilty and enforcement on the roads then i cant see the new NCT rules being effective.

Impossible to do on the roadside.

stealthyspeeder

Anyone hear them talking about this on 98 fm last night?

I was shocked that, two presenters would engage the topic while clearly having done no research and themselves being among the most ignorant people I have ever heard on the topic. It was quite funny hearing some of the stuff they were coming out with!

Matt Simis

JHMEG wrote: »

Matt, that's the gayest looking soundmeter I've ever seen. Doesn't go with the whole V12 thing!

Gently opening the throttle like that will not show the full potential for noise tho. Briefly floor it, with sudden on and off the throttle for the full effect.

The app was 79cents, Im willing to accept its alleged gayness.

I could indeed punch the throttle and make it noisier, but I was trying to pass the test! I assume (though have no idea) that an NCT noise test would be done at 2/3 of max RPM, so around 4k, held steady.

slade_x

macplaxton wrote: »

Was it low enough to cover any of the area swept by the wipers?

yes by an inch or two, the wipers on the front are huge

macplaxton

slade_x wrote: »

the only questionable thing about failing it was the sun visor which was apparently a little low, which even now i cant understand why. the windows arent tinted, i can see clearly out of the windscreen and i even have a clear view of the sky above with it. its doesnt obscure my view out of or even into the car

macplaxton wrote: »

Was it low enough to cover any of the area swept by the wipers?

slade_x wrote: »

yes by an inch or two, the wipers on the front are huge

That to me is a fail - I don't agree with it, just applying the test. Although it's not that clear in the NCT manual, if said strip encroached on "zone A" of the windscreen then it's classed as obscuring the driver's direct view.

Solutions:
1) remove strip
2) fit shorter wiper blades so strip becomes outside zone A. This can only be done to a point, as fitting shorter ones could make it fail on "Wiped area less than sufficient to give the driver an adequate view." (and that might be down to tester discretion rather than exact measurements)

Absurdum

Does anyone know when these changes are actually being introduced, specifically the tinting rule? The "Full revised NCT Manual" on www.nct.ie is still the 2004 one

xFROSTY Gx

I think its coming in during April of this year(both tint and exhaust noise)

sonic.trip

Absurdum wrote: »

Does anyone know when these changes are actually being introduced, specifically the tinting rule? The "Full revised NCT Manual" on www.nct.ie is still the 2004 one

April 1st:

http://www.ncts.ie/NewInspectionItems.aspx


Personally I have no problem with the exhaust thing as I think they are stupid and I don't have one, however I have tinted windows which I got maybe 3-4 years ago. Now at the time I specified I wanted to keep within the law (06/07) and cannot remember what % I was told acceptable. However with this new law, if I fail because of a high transmission rate are the government going to reimburse me for getting them removed and for my loss- I don't bloody think so. Will be intereseting to see what happens now at my next NCT in September.

debbie123

colm_mcm wrote: »

hopefully they clamp down on Lexus lights and stickers in the future!

to me modifications to a car when done properly can be a hobby for car enthuaisists its a matter of taste u might not like these things on cars but others do a harmless sticker on a car does nothing to anybody only offend their tastes its sad state of affairs when people begrudge some light and a few stickers nobody is expected to like everything the world dosnt work like that. these girls and fellas are simply venting there energies into something they enjoy. i have a cousin friend and sister who drive honda civic toyota levin and twin cam and for them these modifications display their individuality they are fully licenced drivers who adhere to speed limits and safe driving this is their fishing hurling soccer etc this is what they spend their money on they dont cause anybody any harm like drugs or antisocial behaviour they work hard nd can often be seen working for these cars at all hours of the night when other people are doing far worse so why take away their past time ???? i can understand why people would not like noisy exhausts these do drive me mad i dont like the sound of these at all hours of the night either

Cosmo K

Interesting read!

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/smartapi/cgi/sga_doc?smartapi!celexplus!prod!DocNumber&lg=en&type_doc=Directive&an_doc=1970&nu_doc=157

TheGobb

http://www.ncts.ie/NewInspectionItems.aspx

says acertain amout of tint is windscreen is ok. Thought no tint was allowed in windscreen or front windows?

TheGobb

sonic.trip wrote: »

if I fail because of a high transmission rate are the government going to reimburse me for getting them removed and for my loss- I don't bloody think so. Will be intereseting to see what happens now at my next NCT in September.

Are the government going to reimburse me and everyone else if I/we have to replace anything. If not why should they reimburse you.It is your responsibility to see your car is legal. Anyone who doesn't take responsibility for their car should not have one

TheGobb

USER X wrote: »

I think the noise limit should only apply to cars under 2L. An AM Vanquish, DB9, BMW M series, Audi's RS series and the super sports cars (amongst others) all sound like music to my ears! Love the howl out a good engine as it tears down the road, not exceeding the speed limit of course

so it should be changed for yoy to your specification?

bad habbits like a$$holes who dont indicate

and noisy assholes

Does anyone else feel like things are getting a bit too politically correct and theres no margin for people to have fun, for men to be men enjoying engines and the sound of a powerful car?

God love anyone who needs to make noise in a car to be aman

Midnight_EG

TheGobb wrote: »

so it should be changed for yoy to your specification?

I'd be thinking you should aim that at the Dealers, it wasn't USER X's choice to make these sportscars as loud as they are.

TheGobb wrote: »

and noisy assholes

Don't you appreciate a nice rasp of an exhaust from a Ferrari or a nice hot hatch, or the booming rumble of a nicely modified car?

TheGobb wrote: »

God love anyone who needs to make noise in a car to be aman

I don't see the sense behind this?

sk8board

TheGobb wrote: »

http://www.ncts.ie/NewInspectionItems.aspx

says acertain amout of tint is windscreen is ok. Thought no tint was allowed in windscreen or front windows?

I doubt it, a certain amount would have to be allowed. All cars have a certain amount of tint from the manufacturer themselves. 100% light passing through imples clear glass.

sonic.trip

TheGobb wrote: »

Are the government going to reimburse me and everyone else if I/we have to replace anything. If not why should they reimburse you.It is your responsibility to see your car is legal. Anyone who doesn't take responsibility for their car should not have one

That might prove diffficult seeing as there was no law relating to this 3 years ago now was there?

Its like building a house with materials for which there is no law at the time, then 4 years later making them illegal and asking you to knock the house down, exact same principles

slimjimmc

sonic.trip wrote: »

That might prove diffficult seeing as there was no law relating to this 3 years ago now was there?

Its like building a house with materials for which there is no law at the time, then 4 years later making them illegal and asking you to knock the house down, exact same principles

Ireland didn't have such laws then but other EU countries did. Vehicle manufacturers have been using compliant tinted glass for years, it's the after-market tints that are too dark. These can be removed. It's more like building your house and sticking a satellite dish on top only to find 4yrs later that the law is asking you to move it below the roofline. The house itself is compliant, but the optional add-on isn't.

Aoifebeefa

My car failed the NCT on thursday because my 2 front windows have 65% visibility and its meant to be 25%. I'm not a boy racer at all so I was not impressed! It will ruin the look of the car Does anybody know how I can have the tints removed? bearing in mind they are factory tints so won't just peel off??

Thanks!