Leaking radiator but not sure that it can be fixed.

charlietangodel

Hi all,

I have a newly installed oil-fired heating system in a dormer bungalow.

I've noticed that one of the new rads is leaking but I'm not sure if it can be fixed.

This is the rad and the red arrow indicates where the leak is.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/charlietangodelta/4281614825/

I could probably live with it as it is only a drip leak, but after reading some of the posts on here I believe that it can create problems with low pressure in the system.

I think this is already an issue as the next rad downstream won't heat up.
Anyway, I'd appreciate your input.

Pete67

Easy fix, one half of the union at the radiator valve needs to be removed, threads cleaned, and reinstalled into the radiator socket with hemp/boss white, or PTFE tape.

The installer should fix this FOC if it's a new system.

charlietangodel

Thanks Pete.

items

Try to steer clear of PTFE tape, it should only be used on air or gas. Flax / Hemp and plumbing joint compound the only way to go with threads. Scratch up thread with hacksaw blade, cover threads with compound, wrap Flax / Hemp with direction of thread (clockwise) only enough to fill threads, then cover hemp with more compound. Never any leaks.

Looks like rad was fitted by an odd job / handy man type, plumbers (most) don't wrap PTFE around compression fittings, its pointless.

If that rad is leaking I would go around and check others, reason it leaked is down to PTFE on a chromed thread, PTFE just turns, slips on the chrome.

yoshytoshy

There is absolutely nothing wrong with ptfe on tail pieces.

ptfe is fine as long as the thread is clean.

GopErthike

yoshytoshy wrote: »

There is absolutely nothing wrong with ptfe on tail pieces.

ptfe is fine as long as the thread is clean.

Agreed, but where this guy has put it on the valve is pointless, no plumber would do that. I hope.

items

I don't use it, I know plenty of others who don't use it, I know two of Dublins biggest mechanical company's who don't allow any of their staff to use it, all for the above reason, it leaks.

Have a look at factory fitted plumbing products, boilers, pump sets and so on, not often will you see PTFE used on a brand new plumbing product fresh from factory, if any PTFE its liquid PTFE. Honestly PTFE its not suitable for water especially hot water with expansion and contraction. It's bang on for air or gas thier is no expansion or contraction like their is with hot water.

Flax joint is a walk away joint and you'll never loose a nights sleep. PTFE is just hassel, it will hold for a while but if not done right it will leak at some stage.

When plumber comes back to fix leak, have him go around and clean off the excess PTFE on valve threads, must be a few more like it, no need for it at all, valves should'nt look like that.

items

GopErthike wrote: »

Agreed, but where this guy has put it on the valve is pointless, no plumber would do that. I hope.

Qualified plumbers would'nt use PTFE on compression fitting thread, some might wrap a bit around ring if ring is over compressed but not on thread. Lots of DIY plumbers do it, they think it has to be done as its a thread, maybe they don't under stand how a compression fitting works.

Just about PTFE, have a look around next time your in a hospital, school, collage library, important type public buildings etc, you wont see PTFE on rads. No way will a big plumbing contractor allow PTFE to be used as its a bad job which will lead to problems and call backs, something nobody wants. These contractors have to do the best job or they wont be called to take on next job. No reason why this should also stem to domestic, a rad is a rad.

yoshytoshy

criticising peoples work is something I don't do at all ,it's not fair on the homeowner who knows no different.
If someone has paid for a job to be done ,it's just downright disrespectful to say anything about how bad the work is.


ptfe tape is widely used on domestic installations ,ptfe compound comes pretreated on a lot of radiator valves.

I'm not going to make up things or just waffle to make my self look good ,I don't have a hidden agenda on this forum.

K.O.L

If you want me to fix this problem for you if the installer doesnt come back just drop me a PM, id be glad to help the problem is also your loosing water in your system you need to make sure the system supply valve is open you dont want your system to drain and is will damage the pump over time, the rad that doesnt heat up is most probably airlocked and this can be bled easily enough

items

yoshytoshy wrote: »

criticising peoples work is something I don't do at all ,it's not fair on the homeowner who knows no different.
If someone has paid for a job to be done ,it's just downright disrespectful to say anything about how bad the work is.


ptfe tape is widely used on domestic installations ,ptfe compound comes pretreated on a lot of radiator valves.

I'm not going to make up things or just waffle to make my self look good ,I don't have a hidden agenda on this forum.

Nothing wrong with criticizing other people's work when the work is done wrong. The rad valve in the above picture is now a dirt collector, if PTFE stays on valve its going to attract dust and dirt, if one is like that more than likely the rest are just the same. Maybe the person who payed for the new heating system doesn't know about heating, that's no reason for me to turn a blind eye.

PTFE is widely used in Irish installation but very little else where, I've fixed enough leaking tail pieces to know not to use it. Thier was a time rad valves came with tail peice pre sprayed with liquid PTFE, it was no use, it cracked off and manufacturers stopped sending them out, I've not seen them in long time, you might still be able to buy them in Woddies or something.

yoshytoshy

items wrote: »

I've fixed enough leaking tail pieces to know not to use it.

If that is the case ,it's your choice not to use it then and that doesn't mean it shouldn't be used.

Making statements about it the way you do ,is just ridiculous.

I've never put flax on a tail piece and I've installed thousands of radiators ,not one has ever leaked.

You have to excuse me now ,I have work to do.

items

No bother, have fun. I've given you enough reasons why I don't use PTFE, why others don't use PTFE and why PTFE shouldn't be used. How about you list out some reasons why PTFE should be used.

Joey the lips

Hi Folks just before we start a big row on PTFE. I know of a major rad valve manufacturer that lines the valve with PTFE. Its perfectly acceptable, However as ITEMS says you can ususally tell the differece between a good and bad plumber by the use of PTFE.

If i could throw one towards you. We all know it works and will work perfect in this application how many plumbers have opened a rad and hated hemp....

K.O.L

items wrote: »

The rad valve in the above picture is now a dirt collector, if PTFE stays on valve its going to attract dust and dirt, if one is like that more than likely the rest are just the same.

ITEMS what is your qualification ive been reading some amount of waffle you have been writing on this thread and i really feel that you have little or no qualification in talking or recommending solutions on this, the above statement takes the prize for ridiculus statements!!!

micks

K.O.L wrote: »

ITEMS what is your qualification ive been reading some amount of waffle you have been writing on this thread and i really feel that you have little or no qualification in talking or recommending solutions on this, the above statement takes the prize for ridiculus statements!!!

There is no need to insult the poster he's trying to be helpful.

items

I shouldn't have to go into the details but as always I have to as people seem to get their backs up over my posts. First of all, I never said PTFE cant be used as in (against regulation) I said it shouldn't be used.

PTFE is for "tapered threads" only, if you've ever worked with GB fittings you'll know what a tapered thread is, if you've ever threaded GB you'll know what a taper thread is. Tapered threads use thread as seal, male thread wedges into female thread, PTFE will seal a tapered thread.

Problem is, some rad valves sold here don't have tapered threads, they come from the other side of the world, designed to be used with rads in that side of the world, rads valves without a taper thread only use thread to hold fitting not to seal, the seal is where tail piece end meets a steel face inside rad, all you do is slip in a washer before connecting tail piece.

If you use PTFE on a thread thats not been tapered, you don't have a wedge, tail piece might hold but sometimes soon as heat comes on, just like the poster who came here, the rad starts leaking.

I've given more than enough reasons why I don't use PTFE and why I find it shouldn't be used.

K.O.L rad valves are chrome for two reasons, 1 for looks and 2 not a lot sticks to chrome, I'll put 100 euro on above rad valve covered in dust, hairs, all sorts in the next year or two if PTFE is not taken off.

Experience, qualified plumber, qualified to design plumbing and heating systems, qualified welder, gas certificate's, oil service certificate direct from oil boiler manufacturer, certified to install Uponor pipe and fittings, certified to install NIBE heat pumps. I've spend total of 15 years work between domestic and industrial, Started out in a small family plumbing company doing everything and anything plumbing and heating related, moved on then worked with two of the biggest mechanical companys here working in St Vincents, St James, Intel fab 24, Shelbourn Hotel, Lenster house, Dublin airport.

Working for myself now, doing what I can, its quiet here so I am going aborad. Plenty of waffel there to keep you entertained.

items

Joey the lips wrote: »

Hi Folks just before we start a big row on PTFE. I know of a major rad valve manufacturer that lines the valve with PTFE. Its perfectly acceptable, However as ITEMS says you can ususally tell the differece between a good and bad plumber by the use of PTFE.

If i could throw one towards you. We all know it works and will work perfect in this application how many plumbers have opened a rad and hated hemp....

I know the rad valves your taking about Joey, haven't seen them in a while, I only use one type of valve so that answer's that one. Flax and boss white can be a bugger to undo after left on fitting for a long time, goes to show how well it seals. Sometimes only heat will allow flax fitting be undone, use a turbo torch, boss white goes off again and metal expands a bit, fitting comes out.

yoshytoshy

Rad valves are chrome ,so that they don't corrode or taint.
GB should always be used with flax and boss white.

items

yoshytoshy wrote: »

Rad valves are chrome ,so that they don't corrode or taint.
GB should always be used with flax and boss white.

Depends on what GB is used for, if its gas some gases will attack flax and boss white, you have to use PTFE designed for what ever gas pipe is carrying, if oxygen you have to use oxygen type PTFE, cant mix oil (boss white) with oxygen. GB Sprinkler systems in clean rooms have to be sealed with PTFE.

items

items wrote: »

Depends on what GB is used for, if its gas some gases will attack flax and boss white, you have to use PTFE designed for what ever gas pipe is carrying, if oxygen you have to use oxygen type PTFE, cant mix oil (boss white) with oxygen. GB Sprinkler systems in clean rooms have to be sealed with PTFE.

Forgot to mention the important one, oil lines, cant really use flax and boss on GB oil lines, over time oil could break flax down, PTFE covered with Stag or Red Lead is the norm, if using flax, use flax with Stag or Red led, no boss white.

yoshytoshy

items wrote: »

Depends on what GB is used for, if its gas some gases will attack flax and boss white, you have to use PTFE designed for what ever gas pipe is carrying, if oxygen you have to use oxygen type PTFE, cant mix oil (boss white) with oxygen. GB Sprinkler systems in clean rooms have to be sealed with PTFE.

I'm qualified myself with a full set of stocks and dyes ,for gas installations outside in public areas.
Gas tape has to be used on gas.

Gb tends to leak when ptfe is used and is ever slightly moved ,doesn't really happen with flax.

Sorry for nit picking your posts ,good luck with whatever turns up in the future.

delly

K.O.L infracted for abusing another poster.

You can debate the merits or downsides of PTFE all day long, but there is no need to get abusive if you don't like someone else's view

items

yoshytoshy wrote: »

I'm qualified myself with a full set of stocks and dyes ,for gas installations outside in public areas.
Gas tape has to be used on gas.

Gb tends to leak when ptfe is used and is ever slightly moved ,doesn't really happen with flax.

Sorry for nit picking your posts ,good luck with whatever turns up in the future.

Gas PTFE for gas, sure you know about it, tends to be yellow and thicker than white PTFE. PTFE can only be used on gas up to certain pipe dia, bigger pipe tends to be welded.

Like all fittings, tape, flax etc if not done right, they'll leak. Most times leaks occur when fitters make a mistake with direction of fitting, they try to undo fitting a little bit (breaking wedge) instead of re doing fitting and lining it up proper. If your working with GB have a look out for Mupro brackets, they lock pipe into bracket so fittings can be undone without lossening up fittings behind.

yoshytoshy

items wrote: »

If your working with GB have a look out for Mupro brackets, they lock pipe into bracket so fittings can be undone without lossening up fittings behind.

I'm strictly domestic ,only use gb with gas pipes outside. My old man has worked on most of the main buildings around dublin ,mountjoy ,irish life etc.

items

Mupros start out with 1/2" 3/4" 1" and so on, I always use them outside, they wont rust and look the part with Galv GB when you've no choice but to have outside exposed pipework.