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Some advice needed.

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  • 17-01-2010 10:47pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭


    Folks,
    I'm in a bit of a quandry. Having had some fun doing both target shooting and clay-pigeon shooting on two separate stags in '09 I was looking to see the practicalities of taking up shooting as a hobby. There are a number of hurdles to cross that I haven't seen exactly answered from searching d'internet and boards.ie. Two interrelated issues to me are cost and licensing (yes, I do think I have a new question!)

    I've married and settled in Galway city but live in rented accommodation but I'm originally from rural Westmeath. I grew up on a farm where my father has an ancient side-by-side shotgun and a .22lr rifle. My shooting might be good to help get my Da more involved too.

    Ideally, I want the maximum amount of shooting satisfaction for the smallest ongoing outlay. To me that would be air-rifle shooting only there are no ranges anywhere I can find in Co Galway. Ranges set up for rim-fire or centre-fire are non-existent too, as far as I can see, though I'm more that willing to be proved wrong. If I can't join a target shooting club then I won't be able to do any of that. Am I right?

    Clay pigeon shooting was option b. I find it hard to determine how much it would cost to join Esker or Ballinasloe, drive there every week(?), fork out for sufficient(?) cartridges, clays and time at the trap. Can anyone give me a roundabout figure over and above buying the gun itself?

    If I do need a safe I won't be able to do any remodelling of the house we live in. I know that a single shotgun might not explicitly need one but who knows what hoop I might have to jump through. Would a safe chained, not bolted, to a wall be sufficiently attached to float the local superintendant's boat?

    I've left a message at the nargc voicemail to see about talking to someone in the nearest gun club (probably Bushypark) but asking here seemed like a good idea too. I'm a country-boy at heart and have cocktail-party-stopping anecdotes that might be better delivered amongst gun club members.

    Thanks in advance,
    Yendred.


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,612 ✭✭✭jwshooter


    the irish clay pigeon shooting is your first stop ,if you want to shoot these two grounds .€100 a year membership and insurance .

    say €600 for a firearm .bits total €1000


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    The west seems very poorly represented for target shooting. There are huge areas of the country that don't seem to have even an airgun range which to my mind is crazy. I mean the outlay to set one up and run it is tiny in comparison with cartridge ranges and yet we've less airgun ranges than anything else.

    Is it snobbery? Do people think airgun is beneath them or something?

    It'd be great if somebody actually got a couple of these going in areas that are poorly represented because it's so easy and would certainly get some interest if it was set up properly.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,096 ✭✭✭bunny shooter


    Been thinking on this myself. Having lived in UK for a few years I noticed they have airgun ranges in almost every area. What are we looking at to set one up here ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    Been thinking on this myself. Having lived in UK for a few years I noticed they have airgun ranges in almost every area. What are we looking at to set one up here ?
    Not a lot ;)

    A shed or other space about 13m by 10m would give you six firing points minimum. Ceiling height of 2.4m would be ideal and a bench with the firing point side exactly 10m from the target line. No windows or other openings forward of the firing point (if there are, they can be covered in plywood), plywood backing behind the targets and preferrably pellet catchers behind the targets.

    Electric target carriers are the cheapest and most efficient way of changing targets, they cost about €300 each and the targets themselves are as cheap as dirt.

    Light it all up with flourescent tubes to about 1500 lux at the targets and 300 lux everywhere else and you've got yourself an airgun range. :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,096 ✭✭✭bunny shooter


    Would you have any idea about an outdoor setup ?

    Used to do this years ago when I lived in UK

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_Field_Target


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    Would you have any idea about an outdoor setup ?

    Used to do this years ago when I lived in UK

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_Field_Target
    Afraid not. As a sport it never seemed to catch on here, possibly because no NGB took it under its wing or more likely that there was little or no interest in it. Air rifle has always been neglected outside of ISSF air rifle and pistol, partly I'd say because unlike the UK, there's no 'off cert' element and therefore anyone who's eligible to hold a licence tends to get a cartridge rifle first.

    I think it's relatively popular in Northern Ireland, but again this could be due to 'off cert' air rifles and accessability to juniors.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,096 ✭✭✭bunny shooter


    I agree with your points.

    However, I wonder if the lack of interest would be overcome if there were a few facilities that catered for it. Like create an interest and therefore, demand. If something is available people might/should get involved theory


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    I agree with your points.

    However, I wonder if the lack of interest would be overcome if there were a few facilities that catered for it. Like create an interest and therefore, demand. If something is available people might/should get involved theory
    The cynic in me says no :rolleyes:. That's purely a subjective opinion that is based on the inability of a fair proportion of people to get up off their asses unless they're lifted and pointed in the right direction.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,096 ✭✭✭bunny shooter


    Cynic myself but an optimistic one :D

    Would an indoor air rifle/pistol range need range certification, Supers authorisation and planning permission from local council ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    Cynic myself but an optimistic one :D

    Would an indoor air rifle/pistol range need range certification, Supers authorisation and planning permission from local council ?
    Yes for the first two, not sure about planning permission but I'd imagine it would as it would represent a change of use for an existing building and permission for a new one.

    They probably wouldn't represent much of a challenge in any case as there's very little required to make an airgun range safe. I have quite a bit of documentation on it and it's pretty easy on the finances.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,096 ✭✭✭bunny shooter


    rrpc wrote: »
    .............I have quite a bit of documentation on it and it's pretty easy on the finances.

    Interesting .................... is it hard or soft copy ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    rrpc wrote: »
    Ceiling height of 2.4m would be ideal and a bench with the firing point side exactly 10m from the target line.
    Well, 9.9m (there's meant to be a 10cm gap between shooter and the bench to prevent people hitting their hips off the table while in position). And the high ceilings are excellent, but DURC's gotten away with a ceiling barely 2m tall for years, even if it does cramp the taller shooters quite a lot.


  • Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭Yendred


    rrpc wrote: »
    Not a lot ;)

    A shed or other space about 13m by 10m would give you six firing points minimum. Ceiling height of 2.4m would be ideal and a bench with the firing point side exactly 10m from the target line. No windows or other openings forward of the firing point (if there are, they can be covered in plywood), plywood backing behind the targets and preferrably pellet catchers behind the targets.

    Electric target carriers are the cheapest and most efficient way of changing targets, they cost about €300 each and the targets themselves are as cheap as dirt.

    Light it all up with flourescent tubes to about 1500 lux at the targets and 300 lux everywhere else and you've got yourself an airgun range. :D

    €300 * 6 + shed + benches + other furniture + lighting = more than my budget!

    This is a chicken-and-egg situation, eh? The keen might be motivated to set up a range or club but the likes of me don't have the market analysis done for the business case to make the investment. :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭Yendred


    jwshooter wrote: »
    the irish clay pigeon shooting is your first stop ,if you want to shoot these two grounds .€100 a year membership and insurance .

    say €600 for a firearm .bits total €1000

    Thanks jwshooter. That leaves about €300+- "running costs" or is that for hearing protection etc?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    Yendred wrote: »
    €300 * 6 + shed + benches + other furniture + lighting = more than my budget!

    This is a chicken-and-egg situation, eh? The keen might be motivated to set up a range or club but the likes of me don't have the market analysis done for the business case to make the investment. :(
    10 members of your club with an average joining fee of €300 plus an annual sub of €200 (these are rough averages based on a number of club's stated fees) adds up to €5000.

    That's a pretty useful budget to set up a club and range.

    6 x target changers @ €300 = €1800
    8 x Flourescent strip lights = €200 approx
    Length of 600mm kitchen worktop = €120 approx
    10 Sheets of 19mm plywood = €500 approx
    Club authorisation €1000 over 5 years
    Range authorisation €1000 over 5 years

    Total for first year (not including PP) €4620 ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,096 ✭✭✭bunny shooter


    Would any grants available for this type of enterprise ?

    This is/could be a viable proposition ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    Would any grants available for this type of enterprise ?

    This is/could be a viable proposition ;)
    If the sports capital grants were available, this sort of thing would be ideal for a grant (up to 70%). Unfortunately, that's not being run at the moment so it's not possible.

    Leader used to give sports grants as well, but I'm unsure if they're still going considering the state of the economy.

    It's the kind of thing that can be done in stages anyway, and add bits as you go along. The basic construction is very cheap and really it's the fees and target changers that make up the bulk of the cost.

    A couple of members to start with and get everyone to put in a proportion of the cost would be the best way IMO.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    There are a lot if you look BS, but given the cuts recently, that's changing. The Sports Capital Grant was the best of the lot, it covered pretty much everything bar the land the shed stood on, the paper targets and the pellets. But it's closed at the moment with no reopening date in sight. There are other grants, check through the Department of Sport website. Also check with your local LEADER and local Sports Partnership people - talk directly to them and they'll usually have some good suggestions. We've gotten a few quid here and there over the years to help with various things - they even sponsored two of the better shooters we had at one point for an amount that paid for their attending the british nationals one year (and bringing home some medals, which always helps with getting the cash the next time round).
    Also, don't hold back on talking to companies. Times are tight, but they have budgets for these kinds of things, so it doesn't hurt to ask. And if you do some PR locally and their name is on the banner in the background of the photo, or the competition or trophy is the <insert companys name here> trophy, then money's often easier to get than you'd think. But you have to have a plan to spend it - 'give us a few quid there boss' doesn't work so well :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭Yendred


    Guys,
    The NARGC guy rang me back so I got a couple of number off him for the localish gun clubs. I'll see what they can tell me. If you think it wise I might put up a reply here so that people who do the same search will see a bit more info.
    I'll ask about the "pellet-gun" range. You never know. Surely there are other people who would be interested, especially if we can get the initial price down per person.
    -Yendred


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,096 ✭✭✭bunny shooter


    Yendred wrote: »
    ......I'll ask about the "pellet-gun" range.......

    **Yendred lobs grenade with the pin in his teeth with an innocent look on his face** :eek: :D


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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Hey, if he opens a new 10m range, I'll forgive him for calling it the wrong thing ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭Yendred


    There really has to be a universally-accepted sarcasm tag!
    I'll be my first patent.


  • Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭Yendred


    Guys,
    Regarding the chaining vs bolting a safe issue, does anyone have an idea if this would be acceptable?
    Does using a clay pigeon trap essentially sterilise an area of land because of sharp edges and sheep feet/mouths not being an idea combination?
    -Yendred


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    Yendred wrote: »
    Guys,
    Regarding the chaining vs bolting a safe issue, does anyone have an idea if this would be acceptable?
    I'm not sure if it would be any less intrusive than bolting it. After all what are you chaining it to, and what use would chaining an oblong shaped box to anything achieve? All you'd have to do is lift the safe clear or snip the chain with a boltcutters.


  • Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭Yendred


    rrpc wrote: »
    I'm not sure if it would be any less intrusive than bolting it. After all what are you chaining it to, and what use would chaining an oblong shaped box to anything achieve? All you'd have to do is lift the safe clear or snip the chain with a boltcutters.

    The safe could be chained to a wall in a shed in the garden. There's a hole that used to be for a central-heating system flue and the roof is corrugated so there's a gap between the top of the wall and the roof. I could slip a number of steel cables through them to loop back in. A suitable safe would allow the cable lock itself to be inside the safe and thus protected. A cable would be harder to cut than a chain.

    Maybe I'm dreaming.

    -Yendred.


  • Registered Users Posts: 737 ✭✭✭sfakiaman


    The only way to find out what security you need is to ask your local (Mill St.?) crime prevention officer.


  • Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭Yendred


    Guys,
    I spoke to the secretary of the Barna/Bushypark gun club. Their year runs from July to June so if I was to join I'd have to pay again in July. This is probably the same for the other clubs.
    Normally they do some clay pigeon shooting every fortnight or thereabouts but they lost the site to do that and so can't do that at the moment. They are looking for some alternative location. They form a team to take on other clubs.
    They do the "regular" gun club hunting in the autumn/winter.
    The secretary runs a side business of organising trap shooting for hotel visitors, primarily in the Glenlo Abbey hotel on a Saturday.

    The Bushypark people didn't answer their phone but the answering machine message, though full, let me know I was ringing the right house.

    -Yendred


  • Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭Yendred


    sfakiaman wrote: »
    The only way to find out what security you need is to ask your local (Mill St.?) crime prevention officer.

    I'll do that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    I doubt very much if they'd allow a safe in a garden shed, regardless of how strong the shed was.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1 carie


    where can you get electric target retrieval for 300 and what distance will they retrieve to??


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