What is in Certs for Stage Payments?

stertman

I was just wondering what exactly gets submitted to the banks.

What does it say and what does it cover?
Does it go into any great detail on what was completed at each stage?
Does it indicate if anything is not completed or needs to be redone?
Is it in anyway technical or is it merely : "First Fixings Complete"

Thanks
Fred

archtech

Most lending institutions have standard forms, which the certifying person fills out. This would be a typical example of a standard form

mr_edge_to_you

Like arch says above each lender will have their own form. It only covers basic information such as the stage completed eg foundation, wall plate, roof etc. The engineer must also put a value on the work already completed excluding the value of material stocks on site. The engineer must then sign it stating his qualification to do so and accompany the sign off form with a copy of his professional indemnity insurance. The PI cover is the most important aspect of this part of the project. Our bank withheld payment because the engineer's PI cert had expired the day earlier. That's the way it should be too.

muffler

archtech wrote: »

Most lending institutions have standard forms, which the certifying person fills out. This would be a typical example of a standard form

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

Like arch says above each lender will have their own form. It only covers basic information such as the stage completed eg foundation, wall plate, roof etc. The engineer must also put a value on the work already completed excluding the value of material stocks on site. The engineer must then sign it stating his qualification to do so and accompany the sign off form with a copy of his professional indemnity insurance. The PI cover is the most important aspect of this part of the project. Our bank withheld payment because the engineer's PI cert had expired the day earlier. That's the way it should be too.

That would be about right. The form in itself is simple, easy to scribble a couple notes and figures on, sign and stamp it. It looks so easy doesnt it?

That part is easy actually but that one single page is an accumulation of site/work inspections and putting your head on the chopping block so to speak and giving an undertaking that you are basically accepting responsibility for the works or at least the parts of the works that were available for inspection.

Just thought Id mention that point

RKQ

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

The PI cover is the most important aspect of this part of the project.

This may be true as it would be IMO impossible to have a Stage Payment form accepted by a Lender without full PI insurance. But you will find that each stage payment form has a paragraph stating that the Certifier with issue a Certificate of Compliance with Planning Permission & Building Regulations to the Lender when the works are complete.

Most forms now have a paragraph to state that the works to date are in substantial compliance with the Planning permission & Building Regulations.

At least one lender requires the Certifier to "tick the box" stating the name of the Professional body they belong too.

There is no doubt that PI is very important but you may find that the Lender finds the above points regarding substantial compliance with the Planning permission & Building Regulations equally important.

mr_edge_to_you

muffler wrote: »

That would be about right. The form in itself is simple, easy to scribble a couple notes and figures on, sign and stamp it. It looks so easy doesnt it?

That part is easy actually but that one single page is an accumulation of site/work inspections and putting your head on the chopping block so to speak and giving an undertaking that you are basically accepting responsibility for the works or at least the parts of the works that were available for inspection.

Just thought Id mention that point

that's where the 2000e goes!!! I have to confess I thought that this was all just more red tape but obviously I have come to greatly appreciate the work of our engineer as the build progresses.

muffler

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

that's where the 2000e goes!!! I have to confess I thought that this was all just more red tape but obviously I have come to greatly appreciate the work of our engineer as the build progresses.

If it were merely a case of certifying the value of the works without any further responsibility or PI cover Id be happy for the clients to take a couple of photos and bring them to me and Id be well paid at €50 for every stage payment cert submitted to the lending institution

mr_edge_to_you

Muffler,

I was joking, sorry. Don't know if it was seen like that. I refuse to use them "smilies"!

I am well aware of the fact that PI is a very expensive product and I imagine that it makes a large part of an engineers annual costs.

I have also seen that our engineer ensures various materials used by the builder in the build comply with regulations and meet the relevant safety/compliance standards.

I genuinely felt starting off that I was just paying someone to sign a form for the bank but there is a lot more to it. And I genuinely feel that we get value for our 2k.

Cheers,
Mr_Edge

muffler

Nah, its grand. I understood your previous post and was just replying with a bit of sarcastic humour

mr_edge_to_you

Ah sarcasm, apparently it's the lowest form of wit. I love it all the same!

Poor Uncle Tom

muffler wrote: »

...sarcastic humour

There is no such a thing.!

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

Ah sarcasm, apparently it's the lowest form of wit.

The acid in sarcasm eats away at the humour until you're just left with a bitter taste.....:D

mr_edge_to_you, the smilies are deadly man, you should try some

Back on topic:
A stage payment release should be seen as part of a whole package and an indication that works are progressing on track at that given time. But it is also important to remember that the person signing off the stage release is not providing a site/works supervision service for the project unless you have engaged them to do so which would cost a lot more than €2,000.