What if we had walked off?

Mr.Nice Guy

Not sure if others have speculated about this, but with the Henry handball situation returning to the world's spotlight for what looks like the final time, whilst reflecting on it I was wondering what would have happened had the Irish players just walked off the pitch in protest?

Let's say Robbie Keane as the captain and Shay Given, both exasperated at the referee and linesman's refusal to listen to their case that Henry had handled the ball, gather the players together and then tell the referee they don't want to continue the match and consequently walk off the pitch en masse.

I've heard this being suggested for when some players are receiving racist chants from the crowd, but what if it had been used in this instance. Presumably the referee would have declared the match a forfeit and France the winner of the tie but with the undoubted furore the whole thing would have generated, would it have made a replay more likely under the circumstances? Would any good have come from it?

What do you reckon?

noodler

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Not sure if others have speculated about this, but with the Henry handball situation returning to the world's spotlight for what looks like the final time, whilst reflecting on it I was wondering what would have happened had the Irish players just walked off the pitch in protest?

Let's say Robbie Keane as the captain and Shay Given, both exasperated at the referee and linesman's refusal to listen to their case that Henry had handled the ball, gather the players together and then tell the referee they don't want to continue the match and consequently walk off the pitch en masse.

I've heard this being suggested for when some players are receiving racist chants from the crowd, but what if it had been used in this instance. Presumably the referee would have declared the match a forfeit and France the winner of the tie but with the undoubted furore the whole thing would have generated, would it have made a replay more likely under the circumstances? Would any good have come from it?

What do you reckon?

Can't really do it.

There is the chance the ref would have been embaressed into checking the video (I mean picture a scenario where the match stops and he is crapping himself he will get all the blame and so has a quick look at the video to see what the story is).

If we had done it then we would all be giving out about what might have been if we had kept going until the final whistle.

Killing Patrice Evra now, there is something we should have done in protest - do the world a favour.

Daysha

Had we walked off the pitch in protest we would've been an embarrassment to the game and ourselves. It would be akin to that kid who grabs his ball and runs home in a tantrum because he didn't score the winning goal with his mates. Of course we would've forfeited the match, no doubt about that. It would've also lead to some pretty hefty fines from FIFA as well.

Players walking off the pitch because of racial abuse is understandable. Teams walking off the pitch because they weren't happy with a referees decision is laughable.

armour87

What's so bad about Pat Evra, seems like a decent guy from what I've seen, albeit of just matches and interviews. If anyone deserves that fate it's Henry with the way he celebrated the goal. Gallas didn't celebrate.

No doubt even if we had walked off, which the players were within their rights to do considering the importance of the game and the blatancy of the foul, would have been seen as some sort of 'attack' on referees and their authority by us.

Perhaps that's what is actually needed for FIFA to change the rules and implement video on some level.

Bodhisopha

We would've come out of it with more egg on our face and looking even whinier than we already have.

armour87

Daysha wrote: »

Players walking off the pitch because of racial abuse is understandable. Teams walking off the pitch because they weren't happy with a referees decision is laughable.

It's not laughable, its perfectly understandable. If we had of done it, no one would be laughing.

Mr.Nice Guy

Daysha's right, it is essentially taking your ball and going home. The question is would such a step meet with a favourable response? Would there have been sympathy amongst the footballing world or a sense of outrage? I don't really know.

One thing I would be fairly sure of though is there wouldn't have been the laughter and mocking from Blatter that greeted the incident as it played out. This would be a grave incident for FIFA to sort out.

armour87

Daysha is right but if that's what it takes to change the rules then I'll happily be the boy who takes his football and runs home, but i'll be back for the next match.

IvySlayer

What if we just left FIFA....

I remember an incident between Lille and Man United where giggsy took a free kick and Lille were moaning they weren't ready. Goal counted, Lille manager was furious and players were walking off the pitch. The crowd went wild and started throwing things at the United bench.

Gavin "shels"

armour87 wrote: »

It's not laughable, its perfectly understandable. If we had of done it, no one would be laughing.

Em not sure if you missed all the stuf that came after the whole Henry thing, but yes the footballing world was laughing at the Oirish fans, they were laughing the whole 33rd team, the poxy protests at the French Embassey because the know-it-alls who were organising it still thought the FAI HQ was in Merrion St. :rolleyes: and I'm sure others could add to this.

irish_goat

Perhaps a sit down protest would be a better method of what you're trying to achieve?

starbelgrade

I think that they should have ran over to the bench, grabbed a laptop & started a Facebook protest page about it.

Gillington

We were made walk off the pitch by our manager about 12 years down in Kilcoole,we still get mocked about it ,so I say no.

leninbenjamin

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

what would have happened had the Irish players just walked off the pitch in protest?

Pretty sure we would have been disqualified and a 3-0 walkover given to France.

Bandit12

At the time i said it was the right thing to do. Somewhere along the line someone needs to take a stand againest cheating.

Kenteach

armour87 wrote: »

Daysha is right but if that's what it takes to change the rules then I'll happily be the boy who takes his football and runs home, but i'll be back for the next match.

What rules do you want changed?
A walk off would have been highly embarassing, exceptionally wrong, and would have led to serious sanctions being imposed on us. More to the point, it would achieve nothing. The ref should be held accountable, no doubt, but refs make mistakes in every game that is ever played, should the aggrieved team walk off every time a decision goes against them? Or is it just if it happens to us in a game that may or may not have qualified us for the World Cup?

noodler

Kenteach wrote: »

What rules do you want changed?
A walk off would have been highly embarassing, exceptionally wrong, and would have led to serious sanctions being imposed on us. More to the point, it would achieve nothing. The ref should be held accountable, no doubt, but refs make mistakes in every game that is ever played, should the aggrieved team walk off every time a decision goes against them? Or is it just if it happens to us in a game that may or may not have qualified us for the World Cup?

Are you for real?

What rules?

Non-seeded play-offs?

Retrospective action for cheaters? (FIFA said they coudl have acted against Hnery if he had used his hand to block an Irish goal btw, just not to score one!)

Video Replays?

None of this is being implemented.

Mitch Connor

Sheff United walked off vs Arsenal, and Arsenal didn't cheat in that game - it was just poor sportsmanship.

kenon

If you were playing in the game, I'd say you wouldn't even contemplate a walk-off. You'd just think to yourself, "get the ball, and we try get another goal before this match is up".

It could possibly of forced a re-match. Or, (most likely) could of forced massive fines for us with France fired into the finals.

Y2J_MUFC

Gavin shels wrote: »

but yes the footballing world was laughing at the Oirish fans,

Oirish fans? So, you are telling me that the people who were protesting (no matter how misguided that was), weren't actually Irish? What were they then?

kenon wrote: »

If you were playing in the game, I'd say you wouldn't even contemplate a walk-off. You'd just think to yourself, "get the ball, and we try get another goal before this match is up".

Thats pretty much exactly what Kevin Doyle said post-match, wasn't it? They just wanted to get started again, because even then, they felt they could still get another one.

Dustaz

Please, look at history before making silly suggestions

It certainly didnt help the UAE (or was it Kuwait)in the 82 world cup and it wouldnt have helped us

Davidth88

Silly idea .. the comparision with the little boy who picks up the ball and says ' it's my ball ....' and leaves is spot on

Can we PLEASE leave this subject alone now , it's dead , buried , deceased , its an EX parrot ....

Thanks

Bandit12

Davidth88 wrote: »

Silly idea .. the comparision with the little boy who picks up the ball and says ' it's my ball ....' and leaves is spot on

Can we PLEASE leave this subject alone now , it's dead , buried , deceased , its an EX parrot ....

Thanks

If you don't like the subject matter then find another thread to post in. Simples.

Fr Tod Umptious

Dustaz wrote: »

Please, look at history before making silly suggestions

It certainly didnt help the UAE (or was it Kuwait)in the 82 world cup and it wouldnt have helped us

It was Kuwait, and against France too

From Wikipedia

a farcical incident during the game between Kuwait and France. As Les Bleus were leading 3–1, France midfielder Alain Giresse scored a goal vehemently contested by the Kuwait team, who had stopped play after hearing a piercing whistle from the stands, as the French player was in a suspicious, arguably offside position, which they thought had come from Soviet referee Miroslav Stupar. Play had not yet resumed when Sheikh Fahid Al-Ahmad Al-Sabah, brother of the Kuwaiti Emir and president of the Kuwaiti Football Association, rushed onto the pitch to give the referee a vociferous piece of his mind. The visibly shaken Stupar countermanded his initial decision and disallowed the goal to the understandable fury of the French. Maxime Bossis scored another valid goal a few minutes later and France won 4–1. Stupar lost his international refereeing credentials due to this incident, and Al-Sabah received a $10,000 fine.

RasTa

noodler wrote: »

Killing Patrice Evra now, there is something we should have done in protest - do the world a favour.

WTF is this ****e? Paddy Evra is a legend.

TonyD79

Evra said the only replay of the match would be on the Playstation 3. Most people have moved on but Im only pissed when I hear the Black Eyed Peas I got a feeling. Lets all forget about the handball and start supporting the other teams in France's group.


If France make the final vs England who will people support?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

nullzero

I think that morally a walk off would have been acceptable.
Although we still had time to play, and were it not for the brilliance and good fortune of Hugo Lloris in the French goal we probably would have gotten the goal we needed.

The best we can hope for now is that Irish teams will go out and be completely bloody minded in all future games. We sometimes have the appearance of doormats, especially against the teams around us in terms of quality.
We need to take the handball and FIFA's attitude towards fairness and equality in the game as a spur towards having a siege mentality. We need to turn the anger and resentment of this episode into a positive of the field from now on.
There would have been positives and negatives to walking off, but the outcome could have been much worse for us if we had, even though we would have made an even bigger statement about FIFA in the process.

PHB

I still can't get over how much of a deal has been made out of it. He cheated to win. Get over it. Happens every week in football and most football fans I know didn't care that much, and were more pissed off at bloody McShane. Yes its annoying, but it happens.

It's pathetic the way we've responded, pathetic.

noodler

RasTa wrote: »

WTF is this ****e? Paddy Evra is a legend.

Lots of things were said after the incident by this ungracious little worm in the aftermath of the game.

If France had lost, he probably would have taken his frustration out on the grounds staff again anyway.

noodler

PHB wrote: »

I still can't get over how much of a deal has been made out of it. He cheated to win. Get over it. Happens every week in football and most football fans I know didn't care that much, and were more pissed off at bloody McShane. Yes its annoying, but it happens.

It's pathetic the way we've responded, pathetic.

Its pathetic the way some who are terrified of how their image will be represented reacted.

The FAI and team made the appeals, I thiknk they have a right to as well without some begrudging armchair fan feeling all embarressed.

dannydiamond

If every team walked off every time a goal should have been flagged offside,a penalty awarded that shouldn't etc, then we'd never have any football!

noodler

dannydiamond wrote: »

If every team walked off every time a goal should have been flagged offside,a penalty awarded that shouldn't etc, then we'd never have any football!

Sure I'd walk everytime the opposition scored a crappy goal.

keane2097

I really don't get this precious "embarrassed" thing people constantly come out with.

As noodler mentioned here we had a series of events which ended in us not qualifying for the World Cup that were extremely suspect from a fair play point of view, culminating in what was probably the most extraordinary incident of cheating in over twenty years (assuming you even think Maradona's hand ball was worse, which is debatable).

We then had the farcical FIFA reaction including Blatter and his slack-jawed guffawing, the shockingly patronising "Fair Play Award" debacle and finally the pat on the head of a friendly with Brazil in a foreign country.

How in the world anyone could be embarrassed based on what FIFA could think of them is absolutely beyond me.

It is an organisation filled with cretins, charlatans and cheats and it's no wonder that protesting against blatant injustices is seen as "embarrassing" in their eyes.

Kenteach

keane2097 wrote: »

we had a series of events which ended in us not qualifying for the World Cup

Predominantly, not scoring enough points in the group stages, followed by not scoring enough goals in the play off. They are eminently more genuine reasons for us not qualifying for the World Cup than a player cheating to get a goal against us.
Yes, seeding didn't exactly help us, yes Henry's cheating should have been picked up, and whether you merit the potential 'embarassment' that certain courses of action did or may have caused, fact is the FAI, rightly, became a laughing stock ( doesn't mean I'd greet Sepp Blatter with anything other than a forehead to the nose, mind you), and I'd be quite ashamed if an international team walked off during a competitive fixture due to a refereeing error.
The FAI's appeals were laughable, particularly coming from an organisation as shambolic as themselves, and it ain't just 'begrudging armchair fans' who feel that way. Marching on the embassy was cringeworthy, the radio phone ins were pure comedy. The list goes on.
Doesn't mean I don't hurt as much as anyone that we won't be in South Africa.

armour87

dannydiamond wrote: »

If every team walked off every time a goal should have been flagged offside,a penalty awarded that shouldn't etc, then we'd never have any football!

It wasn't just another game. Any neutral would even admit to that.

So our two options here are A) Take it in the ass as usual or Do something about it and not give a fu*k how we appear on the international scene.

B FTW

kincsem

I doubt Sepp Blatter will ever go on holiday in Ireland.

The only disappointment was that the incident did not lead to the introduction of video. Rugby, cricket, tennis, golf (rules infringements) all use help.

noodler

Kenteach wrote: »

Predominantly, not scoring enough points in the group stages, followed by not scoring enough goals in the play off. They are eminently more genuine reasons for us not qualifying for the World Cup than a player cheating to get a goal against us.
Yes, seeding didn't exactly help us, yes Henry's cheating should have been picked up, and whether you merit the potential 'embarassment' that certain courses of action did or may have caused, fact is the FAI, rightly, became a laughing stock ( doesn't mean I'd greet Sepp Blatter with anything other than a forehead to the nose, mind you), and I'd be quite ashamed if an international team walked off during a competitive fixture due to a refereeing error.
The FAI's appeals were laughable, particularly coming from an organisation as shambolic as themselves, and it ain't just 'begrudging armchair fans' who feel that way. Marching on the embassy was cringeworthy, the radio phone ins were pure comedy. The list goes on.
Doesn't mean I don't hurt as much as anyone that we won't be in South Africa.

Bull**** reasoning. Plain and simple

Falls apart when applied to France.

Heres the lesson kids! If you don't get enough points to finish top of your group or fail to put the French team to the sword after outplaying them on your own patch in a corrupt play-off system then DON'T YOU DARE COMPLAIN IF THEY CHEAT YOU - IT IS YOUR OWN FAULT!

keane2097

Kenteach wrote: »

Predominantly, not scoring enough points in the group stages, followed by not scoring enough goals in the play off.

This is an extremely flimsy argument since the exact same accusations could be levelled at France up to when they Gallas scored for them in the second leg, who had the added benefit of being top seeds throughout the group stages to aid their progress.

PCPhoto

Bandit12 wrote: »

At the time i said it was the right thing to do. Somewhere along the line someone needs to take a stand againest cheating.

but its not cheating if FIFA wanted/needed France and other larger nations to qualify so they adjust the "RULES" to assist them.


ITS FIFA's GAME.... FIFA's RULES !!! so there !! naa na nee naaa naaah

OPENROAD

How did people feel about the Maradona handball against England, and be honest lads.

starbelgrade

OPENROAD wrote: »

How did people feel about the Maradona handball against England, and be honest lads.

They took it like men & got on with it. Haven't heard them mention it since.