God loves a trier

RubyK

RayCun wrote: »

What kind of gel did you take? You could try a different variety - an isogel instead of one of the thick ones, or something like that? Or maybe an energy drink?

Hey RayCun, thanks for the tips, I took the hi-5 type gel. One citrus, that was ok, and one orange one that was rank. I think I'll try the energy drinks, and see if they suit me better.

RunHomerRun

Hey RubyK,

Fantastic going.

22 miles or so on Saturday morning - brillant stuff.
Yep, it is very tough going, but you got through it - and amazingly - you managed to get out again on Sunday, impressive stuff.

22 miles in 3 hrs 27 mins - including 5-10 mins sitting down - thats fantastic running.

I did my first (and maybe only) marathon last year in Dublin, and yep it was very tough, but you are way ahead of where I was in August.
I only got to 13 miles come Sept, and then increased by 2 miles or so - up to the marathon.
So - Week 3 in August - you are at 22 miles.
You're very well on your way to completing the DCM.

Keep up the great effort.

RubyK

Hey RunHomerRun, thanks very much for your kind words, but I'm still feeling freaked after Saturdays display :eek: An awful feeling.

Did you find gels good, or was there something else you found worked for you? I'll have to try and stomach the energy drinks they provide, as gels just seem to make me feel crap.

pgmcpq

RubyK wrote: »

I'm still feeling freaked after Saturdays display

Did you find gels good, or was there something else you found worked for you? I'll have to try and stomach the energy drinks they provide, as gels just seem to make me feel crap.

For what it is worth I find that the awful LSR (and everyone has them!) where the last miles are run on sheer stubborness are often followed by LSRs that feel great! At times during a run you feel terrible for a few miles and then it passes and and two miles later you are back in great shape. Don't ask me why but it seems to work like that for some of us. Having said that you might want to start the LSR a bit slower and keep maybe the first five miles really slow and then ease into it .. and be very careful about light headedness. You might want to think about taking the gel a little earlier - I usually take a first at 45 minutes as they take time to take effect ... and not all brands suit everyone.

Finishing this run will stand to you in the next marathon,

RubyK

Thanks very much pgmcpq, I really appreciate your post. Hopefully, if I hit the wall in training, on the day I might not feel as bad. I'll have to do some more experimenting with gels/fluids and find what works/suits. I agree with you about the pacing, my first few miles are too fast for me. I'll really have to get a handle on that. It's a learning curve, that's for sure

Mon 23/08 - 6.05 miles avg pace 8.21 mins. Fastest run in a long time. Pretty windy out there, but nice and cool. Glad the muggy weather seems to have left us.

RunHomerRun

Your preparation / training program is excellent
I knew I did not have enough preparation time for the DCM last year.
I knew this in advance and in hindsight - it was also proven to be the case.
As a result, I did not do as many LSR as I should have (would have liked to have) done at all.
Basically - I picked and chose bits and pieces from Hal Higdon's novice training program - to fit in the time I had available.

So, RubyK, having said all that - you are being too hard on yourself.
You are preparing excellently.
You completed 22 miles in mid August, over 2 months ahead of DCM.
And you did a run on Sunday and on Monday - to no ill-effects.

Gels
Again not enough preparation for me.
However on one LSR I used High-5 Gels (bought on-line chain reaction cycles) - and they did not make me feel ill.
Dunno if they boosted my performance, but I guess they served some purpose.
Perhaps a good idea to find out the gels that will be available at the water stations on the day of the DCM and get the same gels now - so you are used to them.
Hindsight is a great thing - isn't it.

Keep up the great effort.

When you cross that finish line in Dublin, it will all be worth it.

RubyK

Ah thanks so much RHR, lovely post from you

Hi-5 are the gels available on marathon day. Hopefully, I'll work something out in the next few weeks, that suits me.

Can't believe how quick the time is going by!

Any plans for yourself? What about the half in Waterford 11th Dec? Thanks again for your motivational words!

RubyK

Tues 24/08 - after a crappy day, I hauled my lazy ass out the front door, and set off, just me and my music (left the watch at home). First half mile was sluggish. After that my legs loosened up, and I felt fresh out. Really enjoyed it. Felt like a fast run (for me ).

Weather forecast is bad for this evening, so I'm already thinking of excuses for not going out tonight. But LSR is planned for Friday evening, due to commitments on Saturday (like being wide eyed and bushy-tailed for my pre-birthday girls night out - my last night out before DCM), so ideally I'd like to take tomorrow as a rest day Guess I'll just have to HTFU and don the baseball cap and water-proof jacket.

RubyK

Wed 25/08 - 5 miles. Boy I was tired this evening, and really struggled, and thought about cutting it short at 4 miles, but knew I'd feel the guilts, if I didn't do my planned 5. Not good. Not good at all.

Thur 26/08 - rest day. I loved it

So this evening is my LSR. I'm dreading it, after last weekends wall experience. I'm trying out energy drinks tonight, so hopefully they will do me some good.

JEmily

RubyK wrote: »

Wed 25/08 - 5 miles. Boy I was tired this evening, and really struggled, and thought about cutting it short at 4 miles, but knew I'd feel the guilts, if I didn't do my planned 5. Not good. Not good at all.

Thur 26/08 - rest day. I loved it

So this evening is my LSR. I'm dreading it, after last weekends wall experience. I'm trying out energy drinks tonight, so hopefully they will do me some good.

Good luck later for your LSR, anyone i know who has hit the wall in training learns from it and it won't happen again. I'd rather hit it during training than on the day.

Just for the record, i haven't reached 20 miles yet, but on my LSR Runs i'll start off very conservatively for the first couple of miles. Then you find you'll settle into your normal pace. I find you don't lose time, in fact your fresher and can keep going so you make time up. Treat it as a warm-up as such!

RubyK

Hey JEmily, thanks for that. I'm hoping and praying my wall hitting now, might make for a wall free day 25th Oct

You are so right about the pace, and it's something I still have not got a handle on. My first few miles are too fast. I'm really going to try and sort this out this evening.

Best of luck with the 15 miles tomorrow - there is a nice group of you by the looks of it, which is great. I find it gets a bit boring running alone all the time.

shazkea

Good luck this evening Ruby. You're absolutely doing great so don't let one "not so good" run knock your confidence. Just enjoy the run and view them as learning curves for the big day. You're right in saying it's better to happen now than the day. Also....22 miles in training this far ahead of DCM, that's awesome stuff

RubyK

Thanks shazeka, your right, I have to think positive and just get out and go for it this evening.

meathcountysec

RubyK wrote: »

Thanks shazeka, your right, I have to think positive and just get out and go for it this evening.

Apart from going out a bit quick on your 22-miler (respect for that :cool:) you didn't take a drink until 8 miles in. By the time you feel thirsty you are already starting to dehydrate. Drink stations in DCM at every 3 miles. Hydrate earlier maybe?

I learned a lot from my disaster of a 15 mile 2 weeks ago. Will see if I remember the lessons today (18 miles)

Good luck.

RubyK

Definitely think you are right there MCS, and I will place a water bottle nearer around mile 4-5 this evening. Cheers, and best of luck with the 18'r

RunHomerRun

RubyK wrote: »

Ah thanks so much RHR, lovely post from you

Hi-5 are the gels available on marathon day. Hopefully, I'll work something out in the next few weeks, that suits me.

Can't believe how quick the time is going by!

Any plans for yourself? What about the half in Waterford 11th Dec? Thanks again for your motivational words!

Hi RubyK,

No problem at all.

Half in Waterford in December ....... thats not a bad idea at all, something to aim towards.
Maybe I will consider it....:rolleyes:
Thanks for the suggestion...

RubyK

Fri 27/08 - ok, maybe I am stupid, but to get the "fear" out of me, I decided to try my best to go as far as possible this evening Hid 4 bottles of energise and 1 bottle of water, plus 2 gels and some jellybabies. Mile 1, too fast. Again. Slowed down, and tried to focus on the task ahead. Took my first energise drink at mile 5. Surprisingly, it didn't taste too bad, and I definitely think it helped me keep going (lots of loops to get in the miles). Took a gel at mile 9, and I didn't feel any ill effects like before. Plodded on and at mile 19, I waited for the wall, which I hit hard on my last LSR. Mile 20, no wall, and thankfully that's the way the last 5.8 miles went. Yes, it was tough at times, but nowhere near as bad as last week. Time on feet - 4 hrs 7 mins - 25.8 miles covered. I had to stop twice to give directions to people (what a sight I must have looked ) and twice to take the gels (coz I'm clumsy like that, and can't open, take the gel & drink water at the same time). I won't be covering this distance again on my LSR before M-Day. All in all very happy.

shazkea

Wow that's serious running Ruby, well done. DCM will be a breeze to you after that . Delighted to hear you didn't have any bad experiences and that's just the confidence boost you needed. Congrats

RubyK

Thanks for the nice words shazkea I know people say not to do the distance during training, but I'm the kind of person who needs to know they have covered it, iykwim. I hope I won't have left my marathon behind me, in training. A friend has me a bit freaked out, saying I shouldn't have done it.

Anyhoo, it's done now, and I'll be following proper plan for the next 8 weeks. Fingers crossed.

This day 8 weeks :eek:

xebec

Fair play on getting that distance covered!! As you know it wouldn't be advisable for most people, but fair play for doing it... Your aim now should be to make sure you get some proper rest this week. One of the problems with going to this distance is that it's easier to get injured afterwards, some proper rest and low mileage this week should sort you out though.

Again, fair play on covering the distance and don't worry about anyone who says you shouldn't have done it!

RubyK

Thanks xebec, appreciate your reply My legs feel grand, no stiffness at all, thank God. I'll keep the miles down this week though, as per your advice.

Thanks again

RubyK

Mon 30/08 - hummed and hawed, but eventually got out the door for a nice 6.05 miles in 52.10 mins. Quite warm out there, but I enjoyed it for the most part. Left calf felt a bit tight for the first half mile, but loosened up after that. And a blister seems to be appearing - but I've been lucky, 12 months running, and only getting my first one now!

claralara

Well done with the 25+miles Ruby! Seriously that's savage going. And to get out again for an easy 6miles in 52mins yesterday..you make it sound so easy! Great going

RubyK

Thanks clara, although I'll probably go out tonight and have a stinker of a run!

RayCun

wow, impressive running, well done

tunguska

RubyK wrote: »

Fri 27/08 - ok, maybe I am stupid, but to get the "fear" out of me, I decided to try my best to go as far as possible this evening Hid 4 bottles of energise and 1 bottle of water, plus 2 gels and some jellybabies. Mile 1, too fast. Again. Slowed down, and tried to focus on the task ahead. Took my first energise drink at mile 5. Surprisingly, it didn't taste too bad, and I definitely think it helped me keep going (lots of loops to get in the miles). Took a gel at mile 9, and I didn't feel any ill effects like before. Plodded on and at mile 19, I waited for the wall, which I hit hard on my last LSR. Mile 20, no wall, and thankfully that's the way the last 5.8 miles went. Yes, it was tough at times, but nowhere near as bad as last week. Time on feet - 4 hrs 7 mins - 25.8 miles covered. I had to stop twice to give directions to people (what a sight I must have looked ) and twice to take the gels (coz I'm clumsy like that, and can't open, take the gel & drink water at the same time). I won't be covering this distance again on my LSR before M-Day. All in all very happy.

Wow Ruby K that is brilliant stuff!! Im stunned by that. Dont wanna sound sexist or anything but there arent many lads who'd have the guts to do a run like that, never mind many of the ladies. Well done, that took courage.

RubyK

Ah thanks tunguska - see I took your advice after all

I'm not quite sure what I should be doing LSR-wise until the big day. Any thoughts?

tunguska

RubyK wrote: »

Ah thanks tunguska - see I took your advice after all

I'm not quite sure what I should be doing LSR-wise until the big day. Any thoughts?

You still have a fair bit of time before the big day so you can play around with your long run a bit. I mean you have 5 more weekends before you'd hit a taper(if you choose to do a 3 week taper)so you could maybe play around with the pace of your long runs. A lot of people will throw in marathon pace segments into their long runs. For example if youre goal was for sub 3 hrs then your marathon pace would be 6:50/mile. So what you'd do in your long run would be say:

5 miles easy
13 miles @6:50/mile(marathon pace)
5 miles easy

Or you could try a progression run. Taking the sub 3hr example again:

5 miles at 7:20/mile
5 miles at 7:10/mile
5 miles at 6:50/mile
5 miles at 6:40/mile

These runs are a lot of fun, you really have to concentrate and focus all he way through, which Ive found, makes things go quickly. Long runs can be a bit of a chore normally but when you do them like this they fly by.

Or you could just stick to what youve been doing i.e. same pace throughout, but try and run a few seconds per mile faster than you did previously. When I do this I take it mile by mile, make every mile a mini- goal. So if you ran your 25mile run at 9min/mile, next long run try and run at 8:55, see how that goes.

It'd be worth your while buying a copy of this book:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Advanced-Marathoning-Peter-Pfitzinger/dp/0736074600/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283253763&sr=1-1

Dont be put off by the "advanced" part. This is a book for everybody whos willing to work hard.

Also theres a 20mile race in athlone on the 3rd of october. Be well worth running as a close to marathon pace long run. Will let you know a lot in relation to where you stand for the big day.

RubyK

Thanks so much tunguska, I really appreciate you taking the time to reply. Lots of advice there for me to work with! I'll have a look at that link you posted too.

Athlone would be ideal, but unfortunately it's not possible for me to do.

Thanks again

RubyK

Tues 31/08 - 6.05 miles. Don't know the time, as I met a fellow runner, who stopped for a quick chat, and I forgot to stop my watch He offered me a lift to Cork to do the Cork - Cobh 15 mile race on 3/10. He thinks it would be a good one for me to do, before DCM. It's something to think about alright.

Wed 01/0 - It's my birthday, and I think I'm being brought out for dinner, so no running this evening.

Might take tomorrow off aswell, as I have to do my LSR Friday evening.

DustyBin

Jaysus Rubyk you've really up'd the ante since I last had a look in here :eek:

You're running has improved no end, and the endurance stuff just seems like no bother to you. Fair play you'll have a fantastic race in Dublin I'm sure of it.
That 26 mile run you did will surely now give you all the confidence you need that the distance will be no problem to you on the day.

Tunguska is a much faster and more experienced runner than I am but I think that maybe nothing more than maybe 22 easy miles for you between now and the big day. Them progression runs and the marathon pace runs that he talks about are exactly what you should be doing now, but maybe limit them to 20 miles total. Doing 13 miles at predicted marathon pace may seem daunting now but will really stand to you when DCM comes around.

Don't forget your step back weeks either - the last thing you need now is a stupid injury. During your step back week run your lsr slightly less 'l' and definitely 's'. If you don't have a foam roller then buy one, the increased mileage you're doing can be a big cause of annoying calf and ITB niggles - I know for Cork this year I started suffering big time over the final 6 weeks or so from not using my foam roller enough. The niggles played havoc with my head at the time. Learn how to stretch your glutes properly.

You're well set for the marathon now, just a bit more hard work on endurance and do a little bit of tempo and speed work and get to the start line in one piece ready to give it socks.

What is your target time for DCM btw?




(Oh and Happy Birthday:D)
\/ \/ Thanks JEmily \/ \/

JEmily

Enjoy your Birthday and meal...and well done on 25 mile run, wowzers

RubyK

Thanks a mill Dusty, you have given me some great advice there Re. the foam roller - I've seen them being mentioned before, and I always picture a paint brush roller :D

Hoping for a time of 3.59.59

JEmily, love the smiles, thanks very much Thanks for the birthday wishes!

claralara

Belated birthday wishes Ruby! Hope you enjoyed your evening

DustyBin

Hoping for a time of 3.59.59
!

why are you selling yourself short??
Maybe you're just sandbagging?

Either way you should AT LEAST be starting out with the 3:45 pacers and looking to push on ahead if them over the last few miles - you've done a 4hr marathon in training ffs
with the training between now and the marathon combined with a good taper you'll be knocking lumps out of that on the day - depends on what you want though I suppose.
maybe during a few of them pmp runs run them at 3:40 pace?

RubyK

Jebas DustyBin, what are you trying to do to me :eek: Following 3.45 pacers, I'd be done by mile 10 man

However, I will take all your advice on board, and I'll do a couple of pmp longer runs.

Thanks again, I really do appreciate all the help.

RayCun

RubyK wrote: »

Jebas DustyBin, what are you trying to do to me :eek: Following 3.45 pacers, I'd be done by mile 10 man

3.45 = 20 minutes faster in the marathon than you just did in a training run
Sounds to me like you'd be well able for it.

Are you doing the half?

RubyK

Hey Ray, I'm not doing the half - I did Enniscorthy half in June though 1.56.10

There's a 15 miler in Cork, that I'm thinking of doing early October.

tunguska

Dont want to put you under pressure Ruby K but Id have to chime in with the lads on this one. 3:59 is a bit conservative considering you've run 4hrs in training. Look after yourself between now and Oct 25th and you'll be good to go. Theres a section on a 3 week taper in that book I recommended in my previous post and it'll see you through to race day in good shape.

RubyK

But it took me over 4 hrs 7 mins and that wasn't the actual full distance. And I'd imagine there will be a fair bit of congestion for the first mile or two.

I'll look at that book though Tunguska - I have to say, the thoughts of a 3 week taper are starting to make me feel gittery already!

tunguska

RubyK wrote: »

But it took me over 4 hrs 7 mins and that wasn't the actual full distance. And I'd imagine there will be a fair bit of congestion for the first mile or two.

I'll look at that book though Tunguska - I have to say, the thoughts of a 3 week taper are starting to make me feel gittery already!

Congestion can be a problem alright. When I did my first marathon I was so green I arrived at the start area about 5 mins before the race kicked off. I was so far down the field that it was 5 mins before I was actually able to run. So aim to arrive at the start line fairly early and get yourself into a good position. All the fast people will be right up the front in the elite section and the section just behind the elites. But dont be shy. There'll be a lot of people bombing off way too fast so pay no attention because you'll be passing them after 10miles, maybe earlier. So basically position yourself not quite up the front but not way down the back either. A good way to judge it is to tuck in around people who look about as fit as you do.
It may have taken you 4hrs 7mins to run 25miles but believe me on the day of a big race like the marathon, you can do amazing things that far exceed what youve done in training............provided you dont go nuts at the start that is.

RubyK

Cheers tunguska I hope to be there by 8.00am. I'd say the start will be manic. The biggest race I've ran in had just under 1,000 in it. DCM is going to be an eye opener!

Gringo78

Your last 2 LSR's are very interesting - while hitting the wall is something you should never try to deliberately do, the fact that you hit it gives you useful information. Also, the followup 26 mile run with the gels and energy drink you consumed gives more information. You hit the wall in the 22 mile run because you didn't take on enough calories (nothing strange about that - most people will hit the wall after 18-20 miles at PMP unless they have started to take on fuel). You then didn't hit it on your 26 mile run because you took some gels and energise drink but you also ran most of the miles slower than on the 22 mile run. You'll be running faster on marathon day so you will burn more glycogen proportionally than you did on your last LSR so bear in mind and plan for the fact that you will definietly have to take on MORE gels & drink than you did during the 26 mile run. Use the time between now and Dublin to plan for this, experimenting with the gels, getting used to them, finding what works and you'll be flying and there'll be no wall in sight.

having hit the wall does not protect you from hitting it again - its simple - no glycogen, fat only, it drops you to practically walking. if you run your glycogen reserves down like that again, the exact same thing will happen so try to never do it again.

By the way, the guys are right, your target could easily be more towards 3:45 than 4:00 - I suspect you actually ran the first 18 miles of your wall hitting LSR at more like 3:50 - 3:55 pace anyway - which makes it a 18 mile PMP run - wow!

Krusty_Clown

What a way to ignore conventional advice! Congrats on a great training run. Delighted it worked out for you. Pay attention to the body for the next week or two, and be prepared to back off if injuries/niggles persist, as this is the time when you are most likely to pick up an injury.

Marathon training tends to follow cycles, such as endurance, etc. Given that you now know that you have the endurance you could use the available time to start working on a mixture of endurance/speed as per Tunkuska's suggestions (just ignore his subliminal attempt to get you to run sub 3).

RubyK

Thanks Gringo78 and Krusty Clown I appreciate all the advice you have given to me!

I know it's not recommended to go that distance in training for your first marathon, but as I've said before, I'm the type of person who needs to know they have done it before. So thanks for not telling me off!

I'll step up the speedwork, and see how that goes. As for fuel, I definitely didn't take enough on my previous LSR, something I'm going to keep working on.

Thanks again

Mr Slow

Happy Belated Birthday Ruby, hope you had a blast.

(Welcome to your mid thirties:D)

RubyK

Thanks for that mrslow! Had a lovely day. I'm trying to ignore the fact that I'm now in my mid-30's, as I still feel 18 in my head

Thurs 02/09 - After an abysmal day in the office, my head was mashed, and the lure of a BBQ (and beer) meant no running was done yesterday.

Hopefully, the two day rest will have me refreshed this evening for my LSR.

Mr Slow

RubyK wrote: »

Thanks for that mrslow! Had a lovely day. I'm trying to ignore the fact that I'm now in my mid-30's, as I still feel 18 in my head

Thurs 02/09 - After an abysmal day in the office, my head was mashed, and the lure of a BBQ (and beer) meant no running was done yesterday.

Hopefully, the two day rest will have me refreshed this evening for my LSR.

LSR of what? 40/50 miles this week?;) at 7 min pace?:D You're putting us to shame.

RubyK

mrslow wrote: »

LSR of what? 40/50 miles this week?;) at 7 min pace?:D You're putting us to shame.

:P mocking is catching mrslow!

The plan is 18-20, depending on how I'm feeling later.

You have a nice group together for tomorrows run. It's a pity I'm so far away, I'd love to meet up with you all.

Enjoy!

Mr Slow

RubyK wrote: »

:P mocking is catching mrslow!

The plan is 18-20, depending on how I'm feeling later.

You have a nice group together for tomorrows run. It's a pity I'm so far away, I'd love to meet up with you all.

Enjoy!

I hope you'll consider it for the 20 mile lsr, we could all go for a bite afterwards make an event of it!