VAT Number

JonnyF

this might be a stupid question so don't hold back, but i;m looking to order a lot of rugby kit for my team for the kinsale sevens and when i got the quotes back the VAT made a seriously big difference to the cost of it all.

I remember people telling me before that they had been able to use the VAT number of people in their teams to avoid the VAT charge on the orders.

Question is, first, is that legal? Secondly , would it cause major hassle to the company I work for if they were to allow me use of their VAT number for this order, there's the difference of a few hundred euro in it so thought it'd be worth asking.

pickarooney

Is there any connection between your company and the team - sponsorship or otherwise? Unless they're amenable to purchasing the shirts for the team as a business expense and accepting payment from you, you can't just use their VAT number.

dudara

Unless the company is willing to purchase the jerseys and gift them to the team, it is technically illegal to use the company's VAT number for the purchase.

rubadub

Could the company sell them on at a nominal fee? i.e. not a gift but since below cost selling is legal they could sell the lot for €1.

I wondered what happened in real cases like this, e.g. if customs catch an ipod marked as €10 they can put their own value on it, can the VAT man do the same with supermarkets selling beer below cost?

Paulw

If the VAT number used is of a company that doesn't trade in sports goods (eg a service company), then their VAT returns and annual returns will look very weird and this will draw the attention of the Revenue. This could lead to the Revenue doing a full audit, which may go back a number of years.

I doubt that any business would really want the Revenue to do a full audit of their books (just for the time and manpower alone that it can take).

While, in theory, it may not be illegal, it will certainly draw attention.

JonnyF

thanks for the contributions guys, yeah you're probably right, it might look a bit dodge, always worth asking these things though

ejmaztec

Paulw wrote: »

If the VAT number used is of a company that doesn't trade in sports goods (eg a service company), then their VAT returns and annual returns will look very weird and this will draw the attention of the Revenue. This could lead to the Revenue doing a full audit, which may go back a number of years.

I doubt that any business would really want the Revenue to do a full audit of their books (just for the time and manpower alone that it can take).

While, in theory, it may not be illegal, it will certainly draw attention.

Advertising expenses?

Paulw

ejmaztec wrote: »

Advertising expenses?

Buying/selling sports gear is NOT advertising. Advertising is paying money for your name/crest on a shirt or something. It would look very very dodgy buying gear, selling it on, and trying to mask it as advertising (aside from being fraud).

ScouseMouse

Paulw wrote: »

Buying/selling sports gear is NOT advertising. Advertising is paying money for your name/crest on a shirt or something. It would look very very dodgy buying gear, selling it on, and trying to mask it as advertising (aside from being fraud).

What about as "sponsorship". In return for a "with thanks to our sponsor XXX" in the next program or posters. The business could subsidise it for the group.

Paulw

superscouse wrote: »

What about as "sponsorship". In return for a "with thanks to our sponsor XXX" in the next program or posters. The business could subsidise it for the group.

What part of "fraud" didn't you understand?

Sponsorship is a donation. It is not the buying of gear and selling of that same gear to a club, to reduce their initial cost. If the company buys gear, it needs to be listed in their accounts, and recorded properly.

If they want to sponsor the team, they should buy them the gear and give it to them. They can't buy the gear, use their VAT number, and then sell on the gear to the club. That is plain fraud.

looksee

At the very least, asking could put you seriously out of favour at work. If you could find a sponsor - not necessarily your own workplace - you would need to approach then on a sponsorship basis, rather than just asking would they use their vat number - which they would not. All a bit unlikely in the present climate, but no harm in doing a bit of research for sponsorship.