Stereotypes about Polish and Irish

Dr_Phil

Claire121 wrote: »

Really good thread! I have to admit, I do find Polish polite quite rude sometimes. I'm not one of those fake Irish people, but I really dislike rudeness.

Some people just get what they ask for, you know... Personally sometimes I like to be a little bit rude to some snotty cnuts who think that they own the fcuking world, don't respect others and use negative stereotypes as their mantra.

meditraitor

M5 wrote: »

Been discussed before, statistically way more likely to be Polish than any other European nationality.....

Also your opinion about intelligence is not really that valid considering most Polish people are educated to a higher standard than us. Never mind the proportion of the polish who emigrate which you would assume would be higher.

that takes the biscut....
You are trying to tell me that the polish are better looking and more educated than us Irish. GTFO

Pittens

I think a bigger discussion of Irish "fakeness" is called for.

I generally think that the term "fake" used to describe a culture as a pejorative can be turned around to the non-prejorative term friendly. I used to think Americans were fake until I lived there, came back to Ireland, and found Ireland a bit inhospitable ( check-out girls not even acknowleding me, never mind not suggesting anything about having a nice day, although some of that was celtic tiger related.).

As for Eastern Europe - I cant say I recently found my trip to Budapest friendly. But even Germans can be perfunctory.

To unfriendly, more abrupt, sourer cultures the friendly country may seem a bit "fake" - that person was smiling at me ( at a shop, or in work) so they must be my friend.

No, not your friend, just friendly. And thats not false, at least not to us.

Caveat

NothingMan wrote: »

...coddle is just boiled water with flour and boiled sausage and boiled bacon boiled into it. It tasted pretty bland and has a horrible texture but I grew up on the stuff and I enjoy a bowl every now and then.

Well I'm glad you told me 'cos I didn't know - seriously.

I'll hazard a guess that you are from Dublin? Coddle is very much a Dublin thing. I had heard of it but didn't know exactly what it was. I could almost guarantee you that the majority of people under 30 say, and outside of Dublin have never even heard of it. Same goes for colcannon, boxty etc - they haven't been eaten regularly as a common meal in about 50 years I'd say.

Irish stew is obviously less obscure but I haven't eaten it in over 20 years. It's a nostalgic, comfort thing really - not often eaten I'd say.

Put it this way - you wouldn't go to an "Irish" restaurant and order "Irish stew" (or coddle or whatever) That's what I mean by there not really being an "Irish cuisine".

There is plenty of great quality local food around (particularly beef & dairy) and great cooks/chefs - but that's a different thing.

M5

dsmythy wrote: »

Is this true? Is there any figures online showing this? Just to see how big the disparity of education is?

Not sure of teh Irish statistics, maybe someone could find out but in Poland 2007/2008 there were just short of 2 million in higher education which in a population of 38 million is huge.

Then you factor in that people who emigrate tend to be skilled and that will lead you to the obvious conclusion what the vast majority of Poles that are here are highly educated.

I think people get this opinion from the fact that most of out "menial" tasks have been taken up by Poles et al. But the thing is that that person cleaning the jacks after you more than likely has a Masters! Also the language barrier may lead people to believe that a person is less intelligent.

In my person experience I have worked with Poles (approx 40/50 over the last few years) and have a Polish girlfriend, Almos all have higher education than me, most have masters, and all earn less than half what I do and work "less skilled" jobs

meditraitor

dsmythy wrote: »

Is this true? Is there any figures online showing this? Just to see how big the disparity of education is?

There are 2 Irish Universities in the top 100 list worldwide, not a single polish one.
http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/worlds-best-universities/2009/10/20/worlds-best-universities-top-200.html?PageNr=2

I cannot see a single article that says standard Polish education is anything but Standard

M5

meditraitor wrote: »

that takes the biscut....
You are trying to tell me that the polish are better looking and more educated than us Irish. GTFO

The Poles in Ireland are more educated than us Irish. Not saying that the Polish are more educated as a nation, although they may be?

The better looking thing is a taste thing I suppose, and there is a huge disparity on how Irish men see Polish girls and how Irish girls see Polish men

M5

meditraitor wrote: »

There are 2 Irish Universities in the top 100 list worldwide, not a single polish one.
http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/worlds-best-universities/2009/10/20/worlds-best-universities-top-200.html?PageNr=2

I cannot see a single article that says standard Polish education is anything but Standard

your missing the emigration point....

meditraitor

M5 wrote: »

The Poles in Ireland are more educated than us Irish. Not saying that the Polish are more educated as a nation, although they may be?

The better looking thing is a taste thing I suppose, and there is a huge disparity on how Irish men see Polish girls and how Irish girls see Polish men

Thats pure bull,

meditraitor

M5 wrote: »

your missing the emigration point....

And us Irish dont emmigrate?

herya

Pittens wrote: »

I think a bigger discussion of Irish "fakeness" is called for.

I generally think that the term "fake" used to describe a culture as a pejorative can be turned around to the non-prejorative term friendly. I used to think Americans were fake until I lived there, came back to Ireland, and found Ireland a bit inhospitable ( check-out girls not even acknowleding me, never mind not suggesting anything about having a nice day, although some of that was celtic tiger related.).

As for Eastern Europe - I cant say I recently found my trip to Budapest friendly. But even Germans can be perfunctory.

To unfriendly, more abrupt, sourer cultures the friendly country may seem a bit "fake" - that person was smiling at me ( at a shop, or in work) so they must be my friend.

No, not your friend, just friendly. And thats not false, at least not to us.

There is a social psychology concept for this - "peach cultures" vs "coconut cultures". Think soft, juicy peach with a hard centre vs hard, unappealing coconut with sweet milk inside.

People in "peach culture" countries are superficially friendly, they express a lot of interest in newcomers, but are not in fact interested in deepening the contact or taking further responsibility. These cultures are more prone to small talk, saying yes to everything and not following through as not to antagonise someone etc.

"Coconut culture" people are more to the point, often abrupt bordering on rude. They do not offer pleasantries and don't have time for people they don't find interesting - but if they do, they form deeper relationships and are more willing to donate their time and effort.

Pittens

There is a massive bias to English Speaking universities in those lists. Bascially parts of the old British Empire have the best universities, and the Germans etc. have one or two.

meditraitor

herya wrote: »

There is a social psychology concept for this - "peach cultures" vs "coconut cultures". Think soft, juicy peach with a hard centre vs hard, unappealing coconut with sweet milk inside.

People in "peach culture" countries are superficially friendly, they express a lot of interest in newcomers, but are not in fact interested in deepening the contact or taking further responsibility. These cultures are more prone to small talk, saying yes to everything and not following through as not to antagonise someone etc.

"Coconut culture" people are more to the point, often abrupt bordering on rude. They do not offer pleasantries and don't have time for people they don't find interesting - but if they do, they form deeper relationships and are more willing to donate their time and effort.

And the banana's? were do we fit in?

M5

meditraitor wrote: »

Thats pure bull,

thanks, i now consider my self to be wrong after your solid point

:rolleyes:

meditraitor

Pittens wrote: »

There is a massive bias to English Speaking universities in those lists. Bascially parts of the old British Empire have the best universities, and the Germans etc. have one or two.

And italians and spannish, oh wait. It must be just a polish bias:p

Pittens

And us Irish dont emmigrate?

When we do we are more educated - these days - than the local populations. I never meet a non-university graduate from Ireland in England, they might as well stay at home and work there, or stay on the dole, this is a reversal from the earlier patterns of Irish emigration.

meditraitor

M5 wrote: »

thanks, i now consider my self to be wrong after your solid point

:rolleyes:

Good. now off ye go and get yourself a good Irish education followed by a lovely woman;).

dsmythy

M5 wrote: »

Not sure of teh Irish statistics, maybe someone could find out but in Poland 2007/2008 there were just short of 2 million in higher education which in a population of 38 million is huge.

Then you factor in that people who emigrate tend to be skilled and that will lead you to the obvious conclusion what the vast majority of Poles that are here are highly educated.

I think people get this opinion from the fact that most of out "menial" tasks have been taken up by Poles et al. But the thing is that that person cleaning the jacks after you more than likely has a Masters! Also the language barrier may lead people to believe that a person is less intelligent.

In my person experience I have worked with Poles (approx 40/50 over the last few years) and have a Polish girlfriend, Almos all have higher education than me, most have masters, and all earn less than half what I do and work "less skilled" jobs

Alright! That's where i got confused. Obviously with regards to certain countries it's only natural that those who emigrate would tend to be of a more higher achieving variety. Poland i would say is one such country. I would have my doubts that Poland as a country is more educated than Ireland.

M5

meditraitor wrote: »

And us Irish dont emmigrate?

again your completely missing the point completely!

Fact 1 Poland has a top class educational system
Fact 2 People who emigrate tend to be educated more than their peers

couple the two and you have a highly educated immigrant population which would be educated to a higher standard proportionately than the Irish population.

Pittens

mediatraitor wrote:

And the banana's? were do we fit in?

yellow on the outside, and soft on the inside. you are like traitors.

/ cough

Pittens

M5 is probably correct. The Irish in England are more educated than the general population too.

herya

Some education stats:

http://www.universityworldnews.com/article.php?story=20090402210342370

POLAND: Higher education boom
05 April 2009
Issue: 0070

The number of students in higher education in Poland has grown from 394,000 in the 199-91 academic year to almost two million today, reports PolishMarket.com. The participation rate among 19 to 24-year-olds has reached 48% - one of the highest in Europe - according to the latest Central Statistical Office report, Students in Higher Schools of Education in Poland in the 2007-2008 Academic Year.

There are 94 public colleges supervised by the Ministry of Science and Higher Education in Poland, including 35 state higher professional schools. A 300 or so privately run colleges operated in Poland in 2008, thereby substantially improving the scope of available education.

In all, 1,937,000 students were registered in all types of higher education institutions in Poland at the start of the 2007-08 academic year, including 501,000 first-year students - 14,000 more than in the previous year, including nearly 10,000 more in privately run schools. The number of foreign students in is steadily increasing, to 14,000 in 2007-08 - 2,000 more than in the 2006-07 academic year.

M5

meditraitor wrote: »

Good. now off ye go and get yourself a good Irish education followed by a lovely woman;).

Another great contribution, cheers from all on AH!

meditraitor

M5 wrote: »

again your completely missing the point completely!

Fact 1 Poland has a top class educational system
Fact 2 People who emigrate tend to be educated more than their peers

couple the two and you have a highly educated immigrant population which would be educated to a higher standard proportionately than the Irish population.

I dont get it, sorry its the bad education. What your implying is we oirish is stupid and the womans are minger compared to your average polish immegrant...

Excuse me if I get offended by this.

herya

Pittens wrote: »

There is a massive bias to English Speaking universities in those lists. Bascially parts of the old British Empire have the best universities, and the Germans etc. have one or two.

That, and also most rankings are based on citation rates and international staff flow which always favours universities "speaking" common languages.

I'm not familiar with this particular rating but I've seen others where the whole top of the list is American and British, like this one - the first non-English University is Swiss in 20th place.

M5

meditraitor wrote: »

I dont get it, sorry its the bad education. What your implying is we oirish is stupid and the womans are minger compared to your average polish immegrant...

Excuse me if I get offended by this.

I didn't say stupid! But at a guess id say 95% plus would have a qualification form a higher level institution. Why would you emigrate without a qualification? Dont forget that lots of Irish in full time education in the late 90's and early 00's would have been able to leave an pick up a well paid job quite easily, for example in construction, and plenty did leave or didn't bother going at all!

As was mentioned earlier the Irish who emigrated would have been in the same position. And look how they were perceived and treated! Thick and uneducated!

meditraitor

M5 wrote: »

I didn't say stupid! But at a guess id say 95% plus would have a qualification form a higher level institution. Why would you emigrate without a qualification? Dont forget that lots of Irish in full time education in the late 90's and early 00's would have been able to leave an pick up a well paid job quite easily, for example in construction, and plenty did leave or didn't bother going at all!

As was mentioned earlier the Irish who emigrated would have been in the same position. And look how they were perceived and treated! Thick and uneducated!

You dont get it do you, pittens was being sarcastic, most of the Irish who emmigrated to the UK were thick micks,:D

M5

meditraitor wrote: »

You dont get it do you, pittens was being sarcastic, most of the Irish who emmigrated to the UK were thick micks,:D

They were people in a poverty stricken country who did what they had to do

clarification needed on the bold print by pittens, although judging by his/her post shortly after i think you may be mistaken

Pittens

When we do we are more educated - these days - than the local populations. I never meet a non-university graduate from Ireland in England, they might as well stay at home and work there, or stay on...

Is what I said. Boldifying the important statistics.

Remember that up until 1970 secondary education was not free in Ireland, unlike the UK, and there was plenty of post-war construction work attractive to people without degrees or schooling, so back then Irish people were probably less educated than the English( which says nothing about intelligence, but opportunity).

Around the Eighties, when the first group of mass university educated Irish people started to arrive on the scene, the nature of Irish emigration changed.

fonecrusher1

Right i must have my say on this subject & i think you'll find it to be a valid & righteous view on this matter.

Now Ive been thinking about this for a while & here is my considered & accurate contribution to this discussion.

Polish women are hot.

M5

meditraitor wrote: »

You dont get it do you, pittens was being sarcastic, most of the Irish who emmigrated to the UK were thick micks,:D

Just a thought on this! So you are saying that most of the Irish that emigrated were thick micks! Considering the massive amount of Irish who did emigrate across the water you are saying that a large percentage of our population are "thick micks". kind of incongruous with your last few posts don't you think? Is is it that we are thick but the poles are thicker in your eyes?

meditraitor

M5 wrote: »

Just a thought on this! So you are saying that most of the Irish that emigrated were thick micks! Considering the massive amount of Irish who did emigrate across the water you are saying that a large percentage of our population are "thick micks". kind of incongruous with your last few posts don't you think?

Not really, whats your point?

I will say it again,

Polish woman are not hotter and polish immigrant are not smarter than the indiginour Irish population and nothing you have said has proven otherwise to me....



My misses is Italian but I dont go around saying italians are hotter and smarter (even though this one is;)) than the Oirish because that would be just stupid,,,, maybe you have a point after all, hold on were was I.

M5

meditraitor wrote: »

Not really, whats your point?

I will say it again,

Polish woman are not hotter and polish immigrant are not smarter than the indiginour Irish population and nothing you have said has proven otherwise to me....



My misses is Italian but I dont go around saying italians are hotter and smarter (even though this one is;)) than the Oirish because that would be just stupid,,,, maybe you have a point after all, hold on were was I.

sounds like "LaLaLaLaLaLaLaLa not listening" to me! but hey, your entitled to your opinion

Pittens

I think we should move on.

Whats a good place in Dublin for good Polish food then? I would like to try something.

M5

Pittens wrote: »

I think we should move on.

Whats a good place in Dublin for good Polish food then? I would like to try something.

lol, i think we should!

Any Polish Restaurant* i have been in has been exactly the same, decent to good food in a terrible setting

Try the "Traditional red borsch with a mushroom and cabbage patty" in Paulas on Capel Street



*wonders if thats a stereotype

meditraitor

M5 wrote: »

sounds like "LaLaLaLaLaLaLaLa not listening" to me! but hey, your entitled to your opinion

I am and yours is wrong IMHO;)

M5

meditraitor wrote: »

I am and yours is wrong IMHO;)

you couldn't resist could you!

meditraitor

M5 wrote: »

you couldn't resist could you!

I could do this all night brother

M5

meditraitor wrote: »

I could do this all night brother

Well thats been the quality of your "argument" so far! Not surprised at all by a childish post like your last! all u can muster are crappy one line responses, opinions and put downs! No debate, no facts just your hallowed opinion!

Caveat

herya wrote: »

There is a social psychology concept for this - "peach cultures" vs "coconut cultures". Think soft, juicy peach with a hard centre vs hard, unappealing coconut with sweet milk inside.

People in "peach culture" countries are superficially friendly, they express a lot of interest in newcomers, but are not in fact interested in deepening the contact or taking further responsibility. These cultures are more prone to small talk, saying yes to everything and not following through as not to antagonise someone etc.

"Coconut culture" people are more to the point, often abrupt bordering on rude. They do not offer pleasantries and don't have time for people they don't find interesting - but if they do, they form deeper relationships and are more willing to donate their time and effort.

Interesting. Hadn't heard this categorisation before. Was aware of the phenomenon, but not this peach/coconut thing - been googling it.

herya

M5 wrote: »

lol, i think we should!

Any Polish Restaurant* i have been in has been exactly the same, decent to good food in a terrible setting

Try the "Traditional red borsch with a mushroom and cabbage patty" in Paulas on Capel Street

I've tried two places and didn't like either of them. Befriend some Poles - choose good cooks - and get a home cooked dinner invite!

If you just want to browse for snacks I think that Polonez shop in Rathmines has the best selection. Most other shops I've seen are awful pokey holes with some revolting looking jars of cheap stuff.

skelloggs

They have colorful tracksuit tops from the 90s, like "patrick" remember them? they seem to have their own style of smoking also which i still cant understand how it could have come about.

Tchaikovsky

Every Polish person smokes and drink-driving is their national sport.

Pittens

I like the Polish idea of hearty soup. As a kid I always hated soup. why? because it was always instant package cr*p. Nearly always OxTail. I dont think too many Ox's ( or Cow's) tails were harmed in the making of that soup, and why exactly anybody would make a soup out of tail offal and then freeze dry it, and then heat it with water and call that soup I didnt know then, and I cant say now.

Sometimes the soup was Chicken and peas. The chicken population almost certainly grew during the Irish consumption of freeze fried watered cr*p with "chicken" pieces ( if you could find them) which were rather more cubic than you expect from an actual chicken, and rather less meaty. Small cubes too, five at most. Two peas. Hard. I think the peas were peas. But it was impossible to tell.

So I thought I didnt like soup until I had actual real hearty soup, Sometime. As an adult.

Now there is a tendency to pureed soup, as we head back to the 80's. But why should potato and leek not look like it has actual potato and leek in it, and not be some creamy watery sh*te just because some muppet has a blender?

Pittens is one with the Poles on this one.

meditraitor

M5 wrote: »

Well thats been the quality of your "argument" so far! Not surprised at all by a childish post like your last! all u can muster are crappy one line responses, opinions and put downs!


No debate, no facts just your hallowed opinion!

There was an argument,,,, jebus.

That describes your nonsense posts to a tee.... [no smiley]

M5 wrote: »

Also your opinion about intelligence is not really that valid considering most Polish people are educated to a higher standard than us.

I wouldnt lower myself to argue with somebody who could post crap like this,

TheGod

meditraitor wrote: »

I wouldnt lower myself to argue with somebody who could post crap like this,

I don't know. Have you talked to some of the D4 girls doing the top courses in the likes of UCD and Trinity lately?

I mean if these are our most educated then my god.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

alex73

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

Every Polish person smokes and drink-driving is their national sport.

Pathetic post, I could say the same for many Irish.

Dr_Phil

alex73 wrote: »

Pathetic post, I could say the same for many Irish.

Relax man...

M5

meditraitor wrote: »

There was an argument,,,, jebus.

That describes your nonsense posts to a tee.... [no smiley]


I wouldnt lower myself to argue with somebody who could post crap like this,

nice rebuttal once again! (oh wait)

Seriously are you 12? "I wouldnt lower myself to argue with somebody who could post crap like this"