IMPACT are at it again...

zootroid

The Irish Aviation Authority is calling on air traffic controllers at Dublin, Cork and Shannon airports to call off industrial action planned for tomorrow afternoon.

The three airports will effectively shut down between 2pm and 6pm as controllers attend mandatory union meetings. This will also affect flights through Irish airspace.

The meetings have been called after 15 air traffic controllers were suspended for failing to co-operate with new technology.


Speaking on RTÉ's News At One IAA's Director of Human Resources Liam Kavanagh said the changes to technology are an essential upgrade for the aviation industry and called on the union to suspend action.

Since Christmas, IMPACT has been instructing controllers not to cooperate with the three new projects.

It has also been in dispute with the IAA over pay and pension issues.

However, the situation escalated when the IAA suspended without pay ten controllers in Dublin and five in Shannon, with further suspensions expected.

The Dublin Airport Authority has said that intending passengers should contact individual airlines regarding tomorrow's planned work stoppage by air traffic controllers.

The reforms have been discussed at the Labour Relations Commission and are being referred to the Labour Court.

IMPACT official Michael Landers said staff should not be suspended while negotiations were ongoing. He said workers are not opposed to new work practices, but rather the way in which they have been introduced.

The IAA said the real issue was the union seeking a 6% pay hike under Towards 2016, and the €234m pension deficit.

The company currently pays 30.5% of salary to the pension for staff, while staff contributes nothing.

The union is resisting IAA attempts to introduce contributions on a par with the public sector pension levy.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0119/air.html

Air traffic controllers, under instruction from their union, refuse to operate a new system (which could potentially put lives at risk). Management suspend the controllers who are refusing to carry out their job, and so the union calls a strike.

As always, they are looking for money. Even though Ireland is going through one of the worst economic crises since the foundation of the state, with inflation running at -5%, they think they should be entitled to a 6% pay rise. And as usual, it is the ordinary punter who must pay. The airports will charge the airlines more, and they will pass the costs onto the consumer. Neither is any mention given to the thousands of passengers who have to make alternative travel arrangements.

IMPACT have no shame.

douglashyde

This happened in the states decades ago -

they fired them and brought in the army.

They should make an example of these guys and some public sector workers.

Get back in your chair and do your damn job. - Your not the boss, so do as your bloodly told.

Idbatterim

Im just watching this on RTE now, unbelievable! Fair play to the IAA! Imagine in the private sector, a new system is being implemented and you tell your boss you want more to operate it! There has been a 13% reduction in flights into and out of Irish airports! how would they feel about getting their pay reduced, now that their workload is? Or how about productivity increases? well work harder if you pay us more! Say that to an employer in the private sector! hell have to words F*** & Off! If the PS wages arent going to be cut anymore, they should be frozen for a considerable length of time!

woodseb

the fact that they can't just schedule their meetings outside shift hours shows they don't give a flying f**k about the general public who rely on airlines (excuse the pun)

The_Honeybadger

zootroid wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0119/air.html

Air traffic controllers, under instruction from their union, refuse to operate a new system (which could potentially put lives at risk). Management suspend the controllers who are refusing to carry out their job, and so the union calls a strike.

As always, they are looking for money. Even though Ireland is going through one of the worst economic crises since the foundation of the state, with inflation running at -5%, they think they should be entitled to a 6% pay rise. And as usual, it is the ordinary punter who must pay. The airports will charge the airlines more, and they will pass the costs onto the consumer. Neither is any mention given to the thousands of passengers who have to make alternative travel arrangements.

IMPACT have no shame.

Hard to believe they could be so utterly selfish. Shame on them. There will be no public support for this I hope they fire the lot of em.

dny123456

It is the perfect group of greedy PS workers to make an example of. Won't be much sympathy for secure staff on 130K+ striking for increases of 6%.

Fire the lot of them, get in some controllers from abroad (or control and operate from abroad). No actual need for them to be Irish, or based in Dublin, Shannon and Cork

hiorta

There are two sides to every story - often a third.
A settled mechanism for operating anything cannot be overturned because one side says so. Discussion of the issues and honest negotiations are helpful - macho, threats are not.

gerry28

It is quite amazing alright. I heard on the radio today that they earn up to €160,000 per year and they want a payrise.

Not even the people i work with every day are looking for payrises and we earn 5 or 6 times less.

I'm in the same union as them and i can't see how they can represent such wide ranging pay levels effectively.

quiche

It's a well established fact that the most 'organized', as in everyone gets over the barrel, unionized sectors are the air traffic controllers, followed by hospital consultants.

Fair representation is great, but these two organizations have such stupidly insane contracts, purely down to having negotiated such small employment bases, that any withdrawal of services can cripple the country, that they feel they can dictate any terms they like.

dny123456

hiorta wrote: »

There are two sides to every story - often a third.
A settled mechanism for operating anything cannot be overturned because one side says so. Discussion of the issues and honest negotiations are helpful - macho, threats are not.

Course it can. One side can hire different people to do the job the other side used moan about doing (and retain the staff that realise that the union heads are nuts)

Time to break the unions.

ronbyrne2005

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article6991798.ece

SLUSK

Why can't they bring in strike breakers? Is it against the law to hire strike breakers to work during a strike?

We need more scabs, they are true heroes.

rovert

SLUSK is easily my favourite poster in all of Politics. Love his work.

picpress

Once again we see the veil slipping with this interview from Liam Kavanagh HR director at IAA when he says that the agreed Towards 2016 payments should be cut due to IBECs statement before christmas. Who is in charge here IBEC or our flip flop government. Tic Tac Tic Tac cut here cut there ....play one off against the other.

http://www.rte.ie/news/news1pm/player.html?20100119,2684368,2684378,real,209

zootroid

Are you agreeing with the strikers, picpress? I hardly think you could compare the plight of an ordinary public sector worker to an air traffic controller, given the difference in wage rates.

If the figures that are floating around are to be believed, that the typical salary is 112k, it's difficult to have any sympathy for them. The inconvenience they will cause, in this time of economic crisis, for a pay-rise, well it just boils down to pure greed. People complain about bankers being greedy (and rightly so), but apparently the same doesn't appear to being said about this lot.

Oh, source for salary figures:

http://www.iaa.ie/index.jsp?p=93&n=96&a=830

(I know this article could be biased, but finding it hard to find wage rates from another source).

zootroid

ronbyrne2005 wrote: »

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article6991798.ece

The figures in that article are frightening.

picpress

zootroid wrote: »

Are you agreeing with the strikers, picpress? I hardly think you could compare the plight of an ordinary public sector worker to an air traffic controller, given the difference in wage rates.

If the figures that are floating around are to be believed, that the typical salary is 112k, it's difficult to have any sympathy for them.

What I am agreeing with is that IBEC and the small firms association have been banging the race to the bottom drum for a number of months now and the government have been dancing to their tune rather than the other way round.

picpress wrote: »

WHO Wrote THE BUDGET SPEECH - IBEC
Have a look at these Quotes taken from the Pre-budget submission of the Small Firms Association and IBEC and tell me why Public Servants should spend their money in Irish Businesses this Christmas I know I'm going to keep my hands in my pocket!!!

TAKE THE SPENDING SURVEY a AT url.ie/49zl

"As set out in Section 3 of this submission IBEC proposes that current expenditure should by reduced by €4 bn in 2010. This should comprise of a €1.4 bn reduction in public sector pay; €1.3 reduction in the social welfare bill and €1.3 cut in the delivery of other current services."

"Given that the increase in the precautionary savings rate is a central cause of the collapse of consumer spending, and domestic economic activity, a signal that the 'worst is behind us' would help stimulate consumption ."

Could this be what's coming down the tracks:-
"In the interests of national competitiveness and the quality of services provided to business and the public, it is better that the public sector pay bill is reduced through a unit cost reduction in the services delivered rather than through an excessive decrease in public sector numbers and service quality. IBEC recommends that the public sector pay and pensions bill is reduced by at least a further €2 bn during 2010 and 2011. One of the immediate measures required to achieve this is the cancellation of all pay increments. Pay increments awarded to public servants during 2009 are estimated to have cost about €250 mn p.a."

IBEC pre-budget submission 26/10/2009

“There is no way any reasonable person can expect to exit this deep recession with the standard of living they went into it with, intact. We are advocating that the €4bn cuts are shared three ways; namely one-third from a reduction in the unit cost of the provision of public services (through decreases in real public sector pay and radically altering the public sector pension provision, rather than simply cutting numbers and services), one-third through a reduction in the social welfare bill, and one-third through efficiency gains across the broader current public expenditure heads."

Small Firms Association pre-budget submission Nov 2009
The SFA Chairman, Dr Aidan O’Boyle

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=63538075#post63538075

Has the old Fianna Fail slogan changed from "People before Politics" to "Profit before People"

syklops

dny123456 wrote: »

Fire the lot of them, get in some controllers from abroad (or control and operate from abroad). No actual need for them to be Irish, or based in Dublin, Shannon and Cork

There is a course run by the defence forces every year in ATC(Air traffic Control), there was an article in the cosantoir a while back about it. I don't have any figures to back this up, but I think the defence forces have enough trained personnel to handle the task.

I don't like my job and I think I could be paid more for what I do, but I am smart enough to know that I am not irreplaceable, and even if I was an air traffic control person, I should be smart enough to know that if I go on strike, that the taoiseach will be flying in AT Controllers from anywhere he can find them and if the Taoiseach is strong in his convictions, I know I will be fired for refusing to do the job I was told to do.

Fire their asses, bring in Defence Forces ATC-certified personnel to do the job and then ring Moster.

Mediocrity

Any budding IT graduates (degree qualifications required) fancy a new opportunity?

http://jobbank.fas.ie/servlet/Watis?SESS=25743_131&REQUEST=WWW_JS_VAC_PREVIOUS_NEXT&ROW=PREVIOUS!24

Welease

gerry28 wrote: »

It is quite amazing alright. I heard on the radio today that they earn up to €160,000 per year and they want a payrise.

Not even the people i work with every day are looking for payrises and we earn 5 or 6 times less.

I'm in the same union as them and i can't see how they can represent such wide ranging pay levels effectively.

I'm wondering how other Impact members feel... They are effectively bankrolling a morally/intellectually corrupt organisation which seems intent on destroying the last remnants of competitiveness left in this country.

Sleepy

Mediocrity wrote: »

Any budding IT graduates (degree qualifications required) fancy a new opportunity?

http://jobbank.fas.ie/servlet/Watis?SESS=25743_131&REQUEST=WWW_JS_VAC_PREVIOUS_NEXT&ROW=PREVIOUS!24

Is that a link to vacancies within the ATC unit? Won't open here in work but if so, I'll be firing off an application tonight.

syklops

Sleepy wrote: »

Is that a link to vacancies within the ATC unit? Won't open here in work but if so, I'll be firing off an application tonight.

Wont open for me either.

Ste.phen

I presume it was a joke and has since been removed

zootroid

syklops wrote: »

Wont open for me either.

Clicked on it last night. It was a job for someone with a degree in IT that didn't pay a salary.

I heard on the radio today, that flights were affected from this morning. I can appreciate flights being affected after the strike, some flights being delayed rather than being cancelled, but how are flights due to depart this morning cancelled when the strike didn't start until 2 this afternoon?

I see we've made the bbc website as well: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8469295.stm

We are an absolute joke of a country

Tipp Man

picpress wrote: »

What I am agreeing with is that IBEC and the small firms association have been banging the race to the bottom drum for a number of months now and the government have been dancing to their tune rather than the other way round.

Has it not even remotely dawned on you that wages and cost in this country are through the roof compared to our neighbours/competitiors. How on earth do you think we are to recover from recession if we don't cut our wages and costs dramatically?? You honestly expect everybody in this country to maintain the frankly disgustingly high standard of living that seemed to become the norm in the last 5 years??

The sooner we do get to the bottom the better, its a pity we couldn't have done more even in the last budget

donkey balls

syklops wrote: »

There is a course run by the defence forces every year in ATC(Air traffic Control), there was an article in the cosantoir a while back about it. I don't have any figures to back this up, but I think the defence forces have enough trained personnel to handle the task.

I don't like my job and I think I could be paid more for what I do, but I am smart enough to know that I am not irreplaceable, and even if I was an air traffic control person, I should be smart enough to know that if I go on strike, that the taoiseach will be flying in AT Controllers from anywhere he can find them and if the Taoiseach is strong in his convictions, I know I will be fired for refusing to do the job I was told to do.

Fire their asses, bring in Defence Forces ATC-certified personnel to do the job and then ring Moster.

it takes over two years to train as an ATCO, airforce controllers are trained differently to cival ones same as civilian pilots are trained differently to airforce pilots. the figure been bandied about of 115k is after 20yrs service.
this is a link from real ATCO based in ireland http://www.pprune.org/atc-issues/402624-irish-air-traffic-controllers-suspended.html what caught my attention while reading through it was the bonus paid out to IAA mgmt it looks like were in a race to the bottom.

Idbatterim

This has been mentioned and its really getting my back up and it is this! these guys or on obscence disgusting over the top salaries, looking to do less work for more money! and the rest of us are happy to have any job or are unemployed! no job security, no pension, no nothing! this madness has to be stopped! Outsource everything that possibly can be!

picpress

Tipp Man wrote: »

The sooner we do get to the bottom the better, its a pity we couldn't have done more even in the last budget

That's it .......keep banging that TORYBOY IBEC drum.....:rolleyes:

brianthebard

gerry28 wrote: »

It is quite amazing alright. I heard on the radio today that they earn up to €160,000 per year and they want a payrise.

*facepalm*

How many of the aforementioned workers are earning 160,000? Is it possible that the payrise they want was previously agreed in a legally binding contract with their employers, as has generally been the case in the past 2-3 years where Public sector workers have sought increases which the govt has refused to pay?

gerry28

brianthebard wrote: »

*facepalm*

How many of the aforementioned workers are earning 160,000? Is it possible that the payrise they want was previously agreed in a legally binding contract with their employers, as has generally been the case in the past 2-3 years where Public sector workers have sought increases which the govt has refused to pay?

Times have changed though. Most public servants had been due payrises but are not getting them (quite the opposite). I could understand them trying to maintain their current payrates but looking for payrises when everyone else is getting cut is a bit much.


115K,160K, 220K its not really the time to be looking for payrises.

donkey balls

the 115k being bandied about is for an ATCO after 20yrs service the first 2 years training is about 17k although i heard that the IAA want to get rid of that and not pay the students anything for two years.
also what about the bonus paid out to the IAA mgmt?