Joe Duffy and Mob Rule

Pushtrak

RedPlanet wrote: »

Tbh i think the onus is on the Joe Duffy side to backup their claims with stats.

Thats the thing with a mob mentality. Doesn't necessarily need stats or those pesky fact things.

Rev. Kitchen

I had to laugh the other day when a doctor rang up saying how dangerous these drugs are and that the woman selling them and her ilk should be shut down. Ignoring the fact that literally hundred of people die each year from taking fully legal prescribed drugs that doctors have given them.

But i feel those shops need to be shut down untill we can reduce the number of idiots in Ireland we cant have things like this because for every 1 person that takes 1 of these pills every 5 or 6 months you have 10 idiots that take 10 a day and wonder why they have such a negative effect on them !!.

I rember seeing huge headline from 1 guy about how they ruined his life. Then as you read on it turns out he was taking 18 of the old BZP pills every day !! for 3 months. That would be like drinking 5 bottles of vodka a day for 3 months and then saying pubs need to be shut down.

Another guy rang up Joe saying his son was obsessed with Columbine high school shootings had swords and pellet guns under his bed had a map of the school on his wall. And when he took a pill it turned him phyco :eek:.
Sorry there sir but your son isnt very well rounded in the first place

starbelgrade

http://anacarlo.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/father-ted-careful-now.jpg

Kradock

RedPlanet wrote: »

Tbh i think the onus is on the Joe Duffy side to backup their claims with stats.
These stories are coming from sensationalized media.

I can't stand Joe Duffy , he is Irelands Jeremy Kyle imo , but the stories are coming from worried parents not sensationalised media. Parents who are trying to keep their kids from illegal drugs and now have these shops to deal with. I don't know the ends and outs of their products but I do know that their intention is to circumvent loopholes in the law to provide customised concoctions to achieve the sensation of an illegal drug. This can't be good.

starbelgrade

Kradock wrote: »

RedPlanet wrote: »

Tbh i think the onus is on the Joe Duffy side to backup their claims with stats.
These stories are coming from sensationalized media.

I can't stand Joe Duffy , he is Irelands Jeremy Kyle imo , but the stories are coming from worried parents not sensationalised media. Parents who are trying to keep their kids from illegal drugs and now have these shops to deal with. I don't know the ends and outs of their products but I do know that their intention is to circumvent loopholes in the law to provide customised concoctions to achieve the sensation of an illegal drug. This can't be good.

Unfortunately, as is often the case, these stories originally came from a small number of "concerned" citizens, which were then sensationalised in the Sunday papers not long ago, which led us to the current frenzy which is now being fuelled by a national broadcaster.

I've been in headshops & seen many a youngster being asked for I-D and those who don't produce it, don't get served. They operate a stricter policy on I-D than most off licences or pubs.

They may be circumventing legal loopholes, or they may not - but statements to the effect that they are doing so, without any facts to back it up, really don't help the discussion.

And I return to the point, that I'd rather take a pill from a headshop that I know for certain doesn't contain jaw chewing skag in it, innit.

Alessandra

I love the way people react to things in this country. We have a country run by greedy fools and everyone sits back and whinges away doing nothing and then people become "outraged" by shops that sell cigarette papers and nothing else that's not readily available in the rest of Europe. People are weird.

hooradiation

starbelgrade wrote: »

The sale of magic mushrooms by headshops was banned by Mary Harney in 2006, following the death of one person after taking them. This, despite any real evidence that the death was as a direct result of taking the mushrooms. There was nothing democratic about it either & if headshops are closed, you can guarantee that it will not be put to a public vote.

We live in a representative democracy, not a direct one, so your claim that it's not democratic is nonsense.
We elect people to make these decisions for us, it's shitty that they can be swayed by small but vocal groups, but the alternative of everybody voting on every issue is far worse.

Likewise, the Joe Duffy brigade are essentially lobbyists (though what the lobby for changes from day to day) and they will probably be listened to as there is no counter to them. If people object to this "war on headshops" even just on pure ethical terms they would be better served lobbying back to show that support for this ill-advised ban is not universal.

SocioAnthropy

How can people attempt to justify their arguments against head shops when they dutifully acknowledge the sale of cigarettes, alcohol & lotto tickets/scratchcards nationwide?

:pac: I know it's an old argument but that really doesn't mean there is a lack of validity to the present situation.

I'll ask a few questions that the mob should be considering in regards to this issue, hopefully other's will follow with better arguments because the only way to actually get past such nonsense is to confront it and find any validity in the other argument - if it exists...

1: In our age of medical & psychiatrical knowledge how can we tacitly assume that the product sold by the head shop caused his hallucinations. I read on another board that there was no evidence in the slightest given as to a link.
Correlation does not necessitate causation,
Because a lot of red trucks brang milk from the country during the whole foot-and-mouth era doesn't mean that red trucks were the cause, you get me?

Also, there are people who cannot watch movies due to epileptic fits, there are people who react to certain kinds of medicine in a bad way. There are people who spontaneously combust ffs... These things happen. Instead of book burning and witch hunts why not stage an intelligent quest to find out the pro's and con's of using these substances & their effects as opposed to blindly blacklisting something.

2: Why isn't there public outcry over the sale of cigarette's to under 18's, or the sale of alcohol to under 18's? Or the sale of alcohol and tobacco to over 18's?
Why hasn't there been a rant by Joe Duffy or the next radio-joe over the huge numbers of road accidents & the huge percentage factor that alcohol has in relation to these huge figures? Why not go ape over the fact that a lot of women beat men when they are drunk, and vice-versa?

3: How can people ignore the fact that every other person they know has tried drugs & a considerable portion do socially, let alone people snorting bath salts or whatever... To claim otherwise is to claim ignorance to a substantial majority of the population. Another shameful fact is that in all countries where drugs are legal there is less of every crime, death etc... that we and similar countries face. You can assume all you like but the figures don't lie, do some research.

4: What is it about society that drives people to use such substances? Why is it that such a huge proportion of people need the satiation that only these un-taxed & apparently amoral substances give?

I've read around a bit online and it seems that this is a long term witch hunt by Joe Duffy. It's a complete waste of time & life but when someone is actively seeking to restrict aspects of social life & trying to tell others how to live based on his personal "bs" assumptions I think it's worth fighting against.

Please reserve the ad hominem insults for the real world, thank you, and have a nice day all the same

Zombrex

Rev. Kitchen wrote: »

I had to laugh the other day when a doctor rang up saying how dangerous these drugs are and that the woman selling them and her ilk should be shut down. Ignoring the fact that literally hundred of people die each year from taking fully legal prescribed drugs that doctors have given them.

I don't think any doctor ignores the dangers of drugs they prescribe. Which is why there is a prescription system in the first place.

I don't think anyone would object to what is in effect a powerful drug, being given to a patient under the care of a doctor, if it serves a medical purpose. You get far more powerful drugs in hospital than you would ever find in a head shop.

But last time I checked head shops tend not to have a qualified doctor assessing the medical suitability of anyone buying a drug from them.

The issue then becomes powerful drugs being given by non-medical professionals to people without requiring medical history or check ups for non-medical purposes.

starbelgrade

Wicknight wrote: »

I

The issue then becomes powerful drugs being given by non-medical professionals to people without requiring medical history or check ups for non-medical purposes.

You could say the same about publicans - when was the last time anyone ordered a pint & was asked by the barman if they ever had a history of alcohol dependency in their life or family.

When it comes down to it, all drug use or mis-use is & always will be a matter of personal choice & drugs will be found, either through doctors, headshops or dealers.

kumate_champ07

starbelgrade wrote: »

The sale of magic mushrooms by headshops was banned by Mary Harney in 2006, following the death of one person after taking them. This, despite any real evidence that the death was as a direct result of taking the mushrooms. There was nothing democratic about it either & if headshops are closed, you can guarantee that it will not be put to a public vote.

Tobacco & alcohol cause substantial deaths in this country every year & cost the health service millions of pounds, compared to one alleged death caused by a headshop product, namely a natural occuring fungi that can be picked from most Irish fields every September. If they are to be closed by knee-jerk, tabloid driven hysteria, it wouldn't surprise me.

Whilst I agree that the products sold by headshops should be regulated, closing them altogether will do nothing but drive people to buy their drugs from dealers who we all know are controlled by criminal gangs. When that happens, the Joe Duffy brigade will really have something to complain about.

The problem is that the mob mentality is far too short sighted & cannot see that every action has consequences & they are far too tunnel visioned to realise that this particular action will have far greater consequences than they imagine.

you should talk to joe!

starbelgrade

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

you should talk to joe!

They screen the callers first, to maintain standards. I'll need to book in for a lobotomy before they let me on.

blossom180

Bonito wrote: »

Tis a load of BS IMO. They're creating some sort of employment, the ones I know of are pretty heavy with the whole I.D. business unless it's a regular customer entering. I don't have an interest in them myself and they don't bother me so I'm not gonna whinge and pull a tantrum to have them closed. The one in my town has been relocated 3 times, it's now on a back street and off the view of the main street. Everyone knows where it is and you only need to know about it now if you want to buy something from it.

where i live must be off the radar cause the 15yr old lads are robbing and exchanging the robbed goods for what they want.personally i think if you want to buy your stuff ok,but the fcukers that are taking advantage of the youngsters should be shut down.

starbelgrade

blossom180 wrote: »

where i live must be off the radar cause the 15yr old lads are robbing and exchanging the robbed goods for what they want.personally i think if you want to buy your stuff ok,but the fcukers that are taking advantage of the youngsters should be shut down.

You should definitely talk to Joe.

Pace2008

Kradock wrote: »

I can't stand Joe Duffy , he is Irelands Jeremy Kyle imo , but the stories are coming from worried parents not sensationalised media. Parents who are trying to keep their kids from illegal drugs and now have these shops to deal with.

Parents who know as much about drugs as they do about astrophysics, yet still feel they can talk with authority on the subject simply because they have children.

blossom180 wrote: »

where i live must be off the radar cause the 15yr old lads are robbing and exchanging the robbed goods for what they want.personally i think if you want to buy your stuff ok,but the fcukers that are taking advantage of the youngsters should be shut down.

I'm calling shenanigans on this; sounds like BS of the highest order.

slipss

In part I blame the headshops themselves, for years and years there were headshops in this country that sold very powerful legal highs and quitely went about thier business, most people didn't even know of thier existance but they still did a very good trade from thier usual customers, selling things like mushrooms, cacti, salvia, kratom, smoking blends and bongs. Nowadays most of them are flogging all this synthetic stuff, (most of which they haven't a clue of what it contains themselves, never mind the will to let thier customers know) to anyone that wanders in and the chainstores are popping up all over the place. They're really victims of thier own practices and succsess.

So the newer synthetics like Meph, the bk's, the cannibanoids will get hit with blanket catch all analogue laws modeled on the US ones that make chemicals that don't even exist yet illegal and because of all the hullabaloo chances are things like salvia, san pedro, kratom ect will get banned along with them. Then everybody in the country will no longer take drugs (apart from alcohol, tobbaco, caffine etc) because they will all be illegal and people don't break the law.

Overheal

xzanti wrote: »

It was because it was being opened in the middle of a residential area afaik..

Like Pubs and Liquor Stores?

RedPlanet wrote:

Joe Duffy constantly tells us that the headshops are doing great business,

Starbelgrade wrote:

Quite simply, prohibition doesn't work - let's say that you ban the sale of alcohol tomorrow as they did in the States in the 1900's. It did little to stop the sale of alcohol - instead "moonshining" became a huge industry, with people brewing & selling alcohol left, right & centre. It also caused huge health problems as alcohol which is not properly distilled can cause all types of illnesses & even death.

So, ring Joe Duffy (Or Joe Duffy: I know you're reading. How are you, Peaches?) ring Joe and bring these points up. Ask him why his whinging shouldnt also apply to Alchohol and Cigarettes. "Oh Ahm theyre too profitable" But Joe, are you not saying the Headshops are successful business models also? "Ahm Ahm Ah bollox Jon I have to go to commercial but Tanks Fer the call bud."

Magenta

Pace2008 wrote: »

Parents who know as much about drugs as they do about astrophysics, yet still feel they can talk with authority on the subject simply because they have children.

Clearly their knowledge of drugs and astrophysics is rivaled only by their knowledge of contraception

Pdfile

Duck's hoop wrote: »

Just listening to Liveline and have been for a few days since last week. He's leading a concerted campaign against the 'Headshop' industry.

I have no doubt that he will succeed in closing these shops.

My question to you is; Leaving aside your own opinions on what these places sell, do you think it's right that a reactionary and hugely biased radio show, fuelled by a mob mentality, should be the arbiter of legislative matters in this country?

Or do you find this situation just a little undemocratic and frightening?

Joe runs the radio like its a mob itself...


Id love him to say the famous line by fat tony from the Simpsons " i don't get mad - i get stabby "


if he done that id be his sex slave for the next two years*


*might never happen

Dravokivich

xzanti wrote: »

It was because it was being opened in the middle of a residential area afaik..

That very same place had been a strip club before...

Also.. with all the apartments in Dublin... Where isn't a residential area?

- Drav!

OutlawPete

Dravokivich wrote: »

That very same place had been a strip club before...

I thought Stringfellos was the first one after it stopped being Shooters.

Was there one before that?

Dravokivich

OutlawPete wrote: »

I thought Stringfellos was the first one after it stopped being Shooters.

Was there one before that?

Shooters was also a strip club upstairs

- Drav!

tmi

true