UPC have increased their standalone broadband charge without notification

Tony

Are you sure Tony as its says this on their site

"Price shown is when added to an existing TV connection. Otherwise a Fibre Power Broadband Standalone Charge of €8 a month applies."

No mention of phone connection

IrishTonyO wrote: »

One was around this is to get their phone package as well without any add on, the phone package on it's own costs only €6 instead of the €8 standalone charge You'll also receive a free phone from them for this. So would advise anyone paying the standalone charge to add on the basic phone package, cost UPC the free phone and end up paying €2 less a month. However I can't get it as they say the line isn't suitable, even though I use Blueface on my connection all the time and have never had a problem with it.

IrishTonyO

Yeah sorry it still does apply even when you have the phone :mad: Sorry about that, suppose it shouldn't really be called Broadband standalone then. Sorry about that.

IrishTonyO

Just got a email reply from my mail on Friday complaining, and its says they put it in the newspapers!! That is not notification, what do they expect me to buy the papers everyday and read them all, just in case the terms and conditions of my contract with UPC will change.
Just as a matter of interest did anyone see this in the papers? Somewhere, they said we are increasing our standalone charge?

"The change in cost was to the broadband standalone fee. This change was implemented on January 4th and as as required by Law we have to give customer's 30 days notice and this was in the National Papers on December 4th."

Tony

I made that point to them. Newspapers do not qualify as notice in writing

IrishTonyO wrote: »

Just got a email reply from my mail on Friday complaining, and its says they put it in the newspapers!! That is not notification, what do they expect me to buy the papers everyday and read them all, just in case the terms and conditions of my contract with UPC will change.
Just as a matter of interest did anyone see this in the papers? Somewhere, they said we are increasing our standalone charge?

"The change in cost was to the broadband standalone fee. This change was implemented on January 4th and as as required by Law we have to give customer's 30 days notice and this was in the National Papers on December 4th."

dazzymc

Tony wrote: »

I made that point to them. Newspapers do not qualify as notice in writing

I actually brought this up with ComReg and they said that unfortunately, advertising a change of terms in the national papers does release them from having to notify in writing. How stupid. I buy a newspaper to read about current affirs so would rarely take notice of "advertisements" like this.

dazzymc

IrishTonyO wrote: »

Surprise Surprise, 4 days after I complained to them I receive a letter informing of the charges. However the letter is dated 22nd January 2010 to inform me they have increased their charges from 1st January! That is not 30 days notice!!!! However in small print at the bottom of the letter

"The Chorus NTL broadband service remains excellent value, however under the terms of your contract you have the right to cancel or downgrade your service within 30 days without penalty if you do not agree with these tariff changes"

So it looks like, F**k you customers we will do what we want, when we want, and if you don't like it leave. Like I have said previously I don't mind the increase €2 ain't much, but I really find it offensive the manner in which they did it. No regard for their customers or their own terms and conditions.:mad:

I received a letter today, 2 days after complaining. Something weird is happening here. They need a wake up call. If I gave my e-mail address out here, who would be willing for me to talk for a group of people and threaten to leave this company and see what they say?????? Just an idea. Group collective bargaining might persuade them????

IrishTonyO

dazzymc wrote: »

I received a letter today, 2 days after complaining. Something weird is happening here. They need a wake up call. If I gave my e-mail address out here, who would be willing for me to talk for a group of people and threaten to leave this company and see what they say?????? Just an idea. Group collective bargaining might persuade them????

You'll probably get the same answer I got when I rang to complain,

"You can leave if you want..."

Tony

dazzymc wrote: »

I actually brought this up with ComReg and they said that unfortunately, advertising a change of terms in the national papers does release them from having to notify in writing. How stupid. I buy a newspaper to read about current affirs so would rarely take notice of "advertisements" like this.

Then comreg is wrong and they dont know much about contractual law, remember UPC say in their terms ""we will notify you in writing 30 days in advance of doing so " . If national newspapers were a legal means to notify someone in writing then many more people would use it knowing full well that the intended recipient may never see it.

BostonB

IrishTonyO wrote: »

Yeah sorry it still does apply even when you have the phone :mad: Sorry about that, suppose it shouldn't really be called Broadband standalone then. Sorry about that.

Broadband without TV maybe?

Because your paying for not having it.

Is there no law against charging you not to have something?

dazzymc

Tony wrote: »

Then comreg is wrong and they dont know much about contractual law, remember UPC say in their terms ""we will notify you in writing 30 days in advance of doing so " . If national newspapers were a legal means to notify someone in writing then many more people would use it knowing full well that the intended recipient may never see it.

That's what they said. And she said it fulfils their contractual obligations.

IrishTonyO

Comreg told me that it was a breach of their terms and conditions, but said they only benefit for me was that I could terminate the contract without penalty.

Tony

dazzymc wrote: »

That's what they said. And she said it fulfils their contractual obligations.

Shes misinformed. Imagine I had a monthly maintenance contract with a company and I doubled the charge without telling them, do you thing the defence of " Oh I put a small ad in the herald" last month would absolve me of any responsibility?

dazzymc

IrishTonyO wrote: »

Comreg told me that it was a breach of their terms and conditions, but said they only benefit for me was that I could terminate the contract without penalty.

weird, huh?

sdanseo

I've always disagreed with the standalone charge. Why not offer it up as a discount fdor taking the two or three services together, rather than a penalty for those who don't? I reckon that would be a superior sales tactic tbh.

Either way, it's €8 - or really €2 given I signed up with the €6 charge in place. I won't be losing any sleep over it.

dazzymc

sdonn wrote: »

I've always disagreed with the standalone charge. Why not offer it up as a discount fdor taking the two or three services together, rather than a penalty for those who don't? I reckon that would be a superior sales tactic tbh.

Either way, it's €8 - or really €2 given I signed up with the €6 charge in place. I won't be losing any sleep over it.

You're missing the point. They didn't advise us of the charge going up and now are treating us all like idiots when we call to enquire about it.

IrishTonyO

sdonn wrote: »

I've always disagreed with the standalone charge. Why not offer it up as a discount fdor taking the two or three services together, rather than a penalty for those who don't? I reckon that would be a superior sales tactic tbh.

Either way, it's €8 - or really €2 given I signed up with the €6 charge in place. I won't be losing any sleep over it.

Its not the amount, it is the principle

dazzymc

IrishTonyO wrote: »

Its not the amount, it is the principle

I agree.

IrishTonyO

Tell them you will give them 30 days notice to cancel, but it will be in a daily newspaper at some stage, so pay attention

dazzymc

IrishTonyO wrote: »

Tell them you will give them 30 days notice to cancel, but it will be in a daily newspaper at some stage, so pay attention

LOLOLOL
:):D:)

none

Nobody mentioned it but UPC also increased their Phone from €5 to €6. I hate it but it looks like I'll be leaving them after less than two months of service. I hated leaving Eircom in the middle of the contract but at least they sent a letter and accepted my cancellation in a similar situation relatively easy. Not sure it will be easy with UPC as I've never dealt with them before but the consensus seems it won't.
Everybody hurts

IrishTonyO

none wrote: »

Nobody mentioned it but UPC also increased their Phone from €5 to €6. I hate it but it looks like I'll be leaving them after less than two months of service. I hated leaving Eircom in the middle of the contract but at least they sent a letter and accepted my cancellation in a similar situation relatively easy. Not sure it will be easy with UPC as I've never dealt with them before but the consensus seems it won't.
Everybody hurts

Just tell them they are in breach of their terms and conditions regarding 30 days notice and you are entitled to cancel without penalty

none

That's you who got the hardcopy of that statement, I have no such letter yet. But I'm seriously upset by their customer support and now this hike... Gotta find another ISP in Dun Laoghaire (Smart, Magnet, Vodafone, ?) :cool:

IrishTonyO

none wrote: »

That's you who got the hardcopy of that statement, I have no such letter yet. But I'm seriously upset by their customer support and now this hike... Gotta find another ISP in Dun Laoghaire (Smart, Magnet, Vodafone, ?) :cool:

Makes no difference not having the letter, that is the point, they did not give you 30 days notice of the change. Comreg told me as well it was a breach of their terms and conditions.

dub45

Tony wrote: »

Then comreg is wrong and they dont know much about contractual law, remember UPC say in their terms ""we will notify you in writing 30 days in advance of doing so " . If national newspapers were a legal means to notify someone in writing then many more people would use it knowing full well that the intended recipient may never see it.

What an appalling indictment of Comreg:eek: I wonder did they base this on some arbitrary rule that they have themselves or a lack of gumption whereby it might occur to them to actually read UPC's terms and conditions?

And to think we have to rely on them to 'protect' us. Is it any wonder that UPC feel that they can do what they like with Terms and Conditions?:rolleyes:

dub45

sdonn wrote: »

I've always disagreed with the standalone charge. Why not offer it up as a discount fdor taking the two or three services together, rather than a penalty for those who don't? I reckon that would be a superior sales tactic tbh.

Either way, it's €8 - or really €2 given I signed up with the €6 charge in place. I won't be losing any sleep over it.

And sadly that's how UPC can get away with this. It may be 'only' €2 but its an increase of 331/3% in a period of deflation. Its bad enough that UPC have a clause in their Terms and Conditions which allows them to increase their charges by up to 15% and you can't terminate their contract but to actually increase a charge by a third when everywhere prices are falling speaks for itself.

billbond4

I got my letter from the nice people in UPC yesterday as well, they are some shower.
Imagine the uproar if O2 decided to change Tariffs and only give people 6 days to decide if they wanted to go onto the new more expensive tariff or leave.
It would be getting a lot more press.

Should it not be a Matter for Consumer affairs not Comreg, i.e. cancelling your old tariff and up'ing you onto a new more expensive one??

Elmo

dub45 wrote: »

And sadly that's how UPC can get away with this. It may be 'only' €2 but its an increase of 331/3% in a period of deflation. Its bad enough that UPC have a clause in their Terms and Conditions which allows them to increase their charges by up to 15% and you can't terminate their contract but to actually increase a charge by a third when everywhere prices are falling speaks for itself.

It is also €24 a year extra. The have increase the bill from €12 to €24 for most customers.

billbond4

Going to email them, misleading information on their webpage, Fu**dogs is all they are....

http://www.upc.ie/about_us/Price_Changes/

We’re giving our broadband customers faster speeds for no additional cost. We’ve launched our amazing Fibre Power Broadband 30Mb service. We’ve supported this with improvements to our upload speeds so if you’d like to upgrade your existing Broadband pack simply complete this form.

I draw your attention to the first line

IrishTonyO

Yeah I pointed this out to them as well, and the answer? The broadband charge hasn't increased just the broadband standalone charge!
But definitely do ring and complain about it. The more people complaining the better. I reckon the amount of people calling them and emailing them to complain has already wiped out the extra profit from the €2 for this year anyway

billbond4

I sent them this.....

I draw your attention to your web page http://www.upc.ie/about_us/Price_Changes/
Third Paragraph
"We’re giving our broadband customers faster speeds for no additional cost. We’ve launched our amazing Fibre Power Broadband 30Mb service.
We’ve supported this with improvements to our upload speeds so if you’d like to upgrade your existing Broadband pack simply complete this form. "
My previous bill was 28.01€ (3MB + Standalone Charge) it is now 29.75€ (BB Value + Fibre Power Broadband Standalone Charge)
How can an increase of 1.74€ per month be no additional cost?

I received by one months notice of increase Broadband Standalone Charge on 25th of January, for a Tarriff that I did not wish to change to.
Which came into effect on the 21st of January, so Thank you for -4 days notice of the change.

billbond4

How about getting People to sign up to receive paper billing
That will shave some of the 2€ profit
Thats what I did, mwhoo haaa haaa (Evil laugh)

IrishTonyO

Yeah I found it strange that my last bill was €38.01? I know it is only a cent but still not meant to be €38.01

dub45

I have resisted up to now on pointing out to people what adding more fibre to your (broadband ?) diet results in!:)

By the way can I point out to people again - UPC charge people whose direct debit bounces €11! They do not warn people of this charge when they are signing up for direct debit. The bank charges UPC just under a euro for each direct debit so UPC get a 'clean' €10 each time a direct debit bounces. Now UPC have over 500,000 customers - I understand from discreet inquiries I made that 10% is a conservative enough figure for the number of dds bouncing particularly in the present climate. So lets say 50,000 dds bounce each billing period UPC could make 500,000 euros for absolutely nothing. And from a charge that they do not advise people on when they sign up for direct debits. No wonder they appear to have moved back to monthly billing.

Remember no matter how fast a speed they offer you that is the sort of company you are dealing with.

The dd system is bad enough with its blatant weaknesses but it is absolutely disgraceful that it can been turned into a money making racket in this way.

dub45

billbond4 wrote: »

How about getting People to sign up to receive paper billing
That will shave some of the 2€ profit
Thats what I did, mwhoo haaa haaa (Evil laugh)

Do they not charge you for paper billing? In any event they wont send you out a paper bill unless your monthly amount changes afaik. They just give you notice that you will be billed xxxx amount each month or bimonthly and this is acceptable under the direct debit system.

boomerang

I remember when I was working for UPC and they brought in the standalone charge. It happened in January, too. Yes, they are obliged to give notice of an increase in such charges. But what they actually do, to create as little fuss as possible from customers, is run small ads in the national papers in the run up to Christmas, when no one's paying any attention. Thus they fulfil their legal obligation to disclose the increase in the charge, while drawing as little attention to it as possible.

Us CSRs used to dread January as the company would announce all the upcoming changes to standard charges internally the month before. January was always the month with lots more complaints than usual! They brought in the downgrade charge for premium channels in January too.

dub45

boomerang wrote: »

I remember when I was working for UPC and they brought in the standalone charge. It happened in January, too. Yes, they are obliged to give notice of an increase in such charges. But what they actually do, to create as little fuss as possible from customers, is run small ads in the national papers in the run up to Christmas, when no one's paying any attention. Thus they fulfil their legal obligation to disclose the increase in the charge, while drawing as little attention to it as possible.

Us CSRs used to dread January as the company would announce all the upcoming changes to standard charges internally the month before. January was always the month with lots more complaints than usual! They brought in the downgrade charge for premium channels in January too.

Their own terms and conditions require them to notify customers in writing.

16. Changing the Terms and Conditions
We retain the right to amend, modify or substitute these Terms and Conditions at any
time and we will notify you in writing 30 days in advance of doing so if the modification,
amendment or substitution constitutes a material change to the Terms and Conditions.
Any such modification, amendment or substitution shall also be posted on our website at
www.upc.ie. If the modification, amendment or substitution constitutes a material change
to the Terms and Conditions, you have the right to withdraw from this Agreement if you
do not accept the modification, amendment or substitution. If you do not object to the
modification, amendment or substitution by giving notice to us within 30 days, the new
Terms and Conditions shall then become applicable to you.

Note that it makes no mention of using newspapers as a method of notification.

Tony

I must disagree, their own terms say otherwise.

boomerang wrote: »

Thus they fulfil their legal obligation to disclose the increase in the charge, while drawing as little attention to it as possible.

Elmo

If you disagree with any of the charge increases you many ask to have your subscription downgraded without incurring a downgrade charge according to the NCA. (within 30 days of notification).

Emailed UPC a few days ago, asked for a downgrade on my DTV sub as I do not agree with the increased sub.

Was informed that I have only just upgraded so the charge would apply, advised that I only upgraded to Multiroom and Plus not the DTV package.

Waiting reply.

IrishTonyO

Elmo wrote: »

If you disagree with any of the charge increases you many ask to have your subscription downgraded without incurring a downgrade charge according to the NCA. (within 30 days of notification).

Emailed UPC a few days ago, asked for a downgrade on my DTV sub as I do not agree with the increased sub.

Was informed that I have only just upgraded so the charge would apply, advised that I only upgraded to Multiroom and Plus not the DTV package.

Waiting reply.

Did you get a letter notifying you of the increase? iF you did, in small print at the bottom of the letter it should state that you can downgrade or cancel without penalty.

Elmo

IrishTonyO wrote: »

Did you get a letter notifying you of the increase? iF you did, in small print at the bottom of the letter it should state that you can downgrade or cancel without penalty.

It only mentions Broadband in that letter.

zynaps

Sorry to drag an old thread up but I have to object to this nonsense from ComReg:

dazzymc wrote: »

I actually brought this up with ComReg and they said that unfortunately, advertising a change of terms in the national papers does release them from having to notify in writing. How stupid. I buy a newspaper to read about current affirs so would rarely take notice of "advertisements" like this.

That makes no sense at all. They could put a tiny note in the Clare Herald "notifying" us that the charge will increase to €10,000 per month. There's a good chance that the first you might hear of it is that a direct debit for that amount is issued against you, and apparently there'd be nothing you could do about it?

Is there some way we can get this ridiculous travesty of justice loophole fixed? Publishing a small note in the "national papers" leading up to Christmas is not notifying me or any other customer in writing. Most people do not read any newspapers at all and they should not be considered the official communication channel with customers.
If it was, why do I get other letters from UPC? Why not just make all communication happen through newspapers? Because obviously they do this to minimise the number of customers who are actually aware of the changes - effectively using newspapers as a (pseudo?)legal loophole and purposely do a disservice to their customers! When they want me to know something, I get a letter every month asking if I want Digital+, but if they don't want me to know something, they publish it in a newspaper.

Imagine if I printed a small note in a newspaper saying that UPC would be forced to pay me €100 every month, rather than me paying them. If they don't "respond" or cancel the contract, can I then take them to court for not fulfilling the contract whose terms I changed and "notified" them about 30 days in advance, in the same way they "notify" us? If it's legal for them, it's legal for us.

But I suspect that what they're doing is not legal, and they persist because nobody is going to take them to court or otherwise legally challenge them (and Comreg is just rolling over for them like a well-trained dog). Can you imagine modifying a contract you had with someone and, rather than informing them, publishing the changes in a newspaper and then claiming later that they were notified? They'd laugh in your face!

vibe666

well, it didn't work for o2 when they did the same thing with their iphone customers without notification.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055941844

i have several mates (not to mention the hundreds of boardsies) who have managed to get out of their iphone contracts with them over this.

Under Regulation 17 of the European Communities (electronic communications networks and services)(Universal Service and Users’ rights) regulations 2003 an operator shall not shall not less than one month prior to the date of implementation of any proposed modification, notify its subscribers to that service of the proposed modification in the conditions of the contract for that service, and their right to withdraw without penalty from such contract if they do not accept the modification. If you wish to exercise your right under Regulation 17 please contact O2. The continued use of O2 services after the effective date of the change is deemed acceptance of the change.

unfortunately, other than (theoretically) allowing you to get out of the contract without penalties, there's not much you can do about it and unless you want to change broadband providers and are still in the locked part of your contract with UPC.

that said, the change happened in January, so you're a bit late in the game to actually kick up a fuss about it now.

IrishTonyO

This was dealt with at the time and after phoning Comreg they said that you could leave the contract if you wished within 30 days and UPC agreed that you could leave the contract with no fee.

This thread should be really closed by now

zynaps

vibe666 wrote: »

that said, the change happened in January, so you're a bit late in the game to actually kick up a fuss about it now.

It doesn't affect me, since I'm getting TV from them anyway - I'm just shocked that they're allowed to get away with contract alterations without directly notifying the customer first. Obviously they will continue to do this in future. If they had increased the charge by say €1,000, and the first you knew of it was when it appeared on your direct debit, could you refuse to pay on the grounds that they didn't actually notify you? Hopefully that won't ever happen - it would cause an mass-exodus of customers and probably a legal challenge.

Anyway yes, close the thread, I was just very curious as to how they can get away with making changes to contracts with customers, without notifying the customers (publishing it in a newspaper really doesn't cut it, especially when they can and do send us letters all the time!)

jor el

Since the info being contested is out of date, this should end here.