Differences in draught Guinness cans in the north and south

Fuzzy Clam

Blisterman wrote: »

Had a pint here a few weeks ago, which was obviously hooked up to a CO2 tank, rather than the CO2/Nitro mix.
Was fizzy, rather than creamy, with very little head. Was about to send it back, when i decided to have a taste. And boy was I surprised. It was much more flavourful and rich than regular Guinness draught. Even more so than bottled Guinness Original.
It was delicious. Obviously the nitrogen dulls the taste. Pubs should sell it like this. I'd drink it all the time.

Unlikely to have been on Co2 only as the gas systems don't allow that. Also, Co2 only would have made the pint unpourable. More likely that the gas mix was wrong. Either a lager gas (43-50% Co2 mix) was used (this can happen when the publican runs out of Guinness gas, or inadvertently connects a wrong cylinder) or the mix was wrong in the cylinder. It happens.
Temp can also be a factor. Nitrogen should have no effect on taste.

It's unusual that there was little head. That usually indicates less Co2 although if it was fizzier it may have more Co2.
Was it very cold?

BeerNut

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

Nitrogen should have no effect on taste

:eek: Nitrogen has a massive deleterious effect on taste. It traps the flavour compounds in the beer, keeping them away from the drinker's taste sensors.

Blisterman

It had a small foamy head, which dissapated fairly quickly.

And I don't see how the system would not allow CO2 only tanks. I've tapped kegs before. The keg connectors are different, but the actual gas tubing is all the same.

thelynchfella

BeerNut wrote: »

:eek: Nitrogen has a massive deleterious effect on taste. It traps the flavour compounds in the beer, keeping them away from the drinker's taste sensors.

+1

Nitrogen totally ruins stout in my opinion

Fuzzy Clam

Blisterman wrote: »

And I don't see how the system would not allow CO2 only tanks. I've tapped kegs before. The keg connectors are different, but the actual gas tubing is all the same.

This has nothing to do with tapping kegs. Nor has it anything to do with the tubing (which is not all the same).
There are several gas systems used in pubs (prepare to be bored).

The first uses mixed gases only, so not relevant here.

Another uses pre mixed gas for Guinness, to which Co2 is added for lagers. If the mixed gas cylinder is empty, the system won't allow Co2 to pass to the kegs.

The next system mixes both gases for Guinness and lagers. Same thing, if no N2 then Co2 cannot pass.

There are other considerations as well.

The tubing sizes are different as is the pressure from the Co2 reg which is a lot greater.
If a publican was stupid enough to try to pipe a Co2 cylinder up to the ring main, he would have to overcome these issues.

It doesn't happen.

Fuzzy Clam

thelynchfella wrote: »

+1

Nitrogen totally ruins stout in my opinion

How do know the nitrogen ruins the stout?

BeerNut

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

How do know the nitrogen ruins the stout?

By comparing the same beer in nitro and non-nitro forms. Even the flavour difference between bottled and draught Guinness -- which is far from the most flavoursome stout out there -- is very noticeable. But put O'Hara's or Porterhouse Plain in their cask form next to the nitro versions and the ruinous effect of nitro is very apparent, in my experience.

Fuzzy Clam

Bottled and Draught Guinness are different brews and the other 2 you mention probably are too.

BeerNut

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

Bottled and Draught Guinness are different brews and the other 2 you mention probably are too.

I can assure you the other two aren't. I've had Porterhouse Plain from the conditioning tanks in the brewery before it got kegged for nitro serve. Irish microbreweries serve so little on cask it makes no sense to brew separately for it. What makes you think Guinness Extra Stout and Guinness Draught are different base beers?

There is a very basic piece of science behind the nitro effect: air is mostly nitrogen with very little CO2. So the nitrogen isn't going leap out of the glass carrying flavour compounds with it; CO2 is.

thelynchfella

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

How do know the nitrogen ruins the stout?

well for one o'haras and PH Plain taste much better from a cask than it does on draught.

Fuzzy Clam

thelynchfella wrote: »

well for one o'haras and PH Plain taste much better from a cask than it does on draught.

I'm not refuting that. You haven't answered the question though.

thelynchfella

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

I'm not refuting that. You haven't answered the question though.

i did answer it.....i meant with regards taste nitrogen ruins stout

brianthebard

Rebelheart wrote: »

Well, as the curiosity was getting the better of me, I did a rare thing and asked Guinness directly. Here's the reply:

"Thank you so much for your recent email. We always love to hear from our loyal consumers, their thoughts and comments, as it brings us closer to the people that matter - you!

In regards to your query, the only difference between Guinness sold in the U.K and Ireland is a slight decrease in the alcohol content, as you yourself noted. Guinness sold in the U.K has .1% less alcohol in it than Guinness sold in Ireland. The alcohol content is different and always has been, we have looked into this question before and discovered that it is simply a historical difference between the two markets, but in no way should the subtle difference comprimise the taste. Again, the same is true of Draught Guinness sold in pubs in Ireland and the UK, where the only difference is the ABV change of .1%.

In relation to your query about can size, basically the reason why the cans in Ireland are bigger than those in the UK is historic again and it goes back to when the cans were introduced into the UK market. In the UK, we use a standard 440ml can, however now in the Republic of Ireland the 440ml can was not a legal size. Hence the reason why the 500ml can was used in Ireland as this is recognised as a legal size can.

We produce Guinness in 50 countries worldwide and market it to 150 countries. Although the ABV may change from country to country, and the own countries water supply used to finish production, the same ingreidents and recipe are used in all Guinness throughout the world. Consistent quality is our top priority and I can assure you that the recipe of Guinness and the production methods are the same wherever it is brewed and sold to.

I hope this information is useful to you and that you continue to enjoy Guinness."


Well, ignoring the awfully roguish plámás of the highest order in paragraph 1, and the generic marketing spiel in the last two paragraphs, this has provided no enlightenment whatever for my questions. I'd say they could have googled those answers and got them from this thread, the pups.

PS: I still find it hard to believe that the difference in taste between north and south comes down to that .1% difference in alcohol. Just a gut feeling.

Difference in taste is most likely caused by the different waters used.

BeerNut

brianthebard wrote: »

Difference in taste is most likely caused by the different waters used.

I very much doubt that. Big breweries use reverse osmosis and can recreate any water profile they want. Water chemistry is one of those things that varies naturally and therefore cannot be left to its own devices when trying to create a consistent homogenous product.

brianthebard

BeerNut wrote: »

I very much doubt that. Big breweries use reverse osmosis and can recreate any water profile they want. Water chemistry is one of those things that varies naturally and therefore cannot be left to its own devices when trying to create a consistent homogenous product.

Well you've already pointed out earlier in the thread that the beer is all brewed in the one place then finished in each country its sold. Unless you believe that people are imagining a difference then it can only be the water which causes a difference in taste. Being the biggest/main ingredient it would make sense since this is the only variable.

BeerNut

brianthebard wrote: »

Unless you believe that people are imagining a difference

That seems to me to be the most likely explanation. Has anyone who asserts that there's a difference ever tested to see if it's really there?

brianthebard

Lol I definitely think its possibly just in people's heads, but it would be pretty hard to test a pint from Dublin and Belfast side by side. Someone should do a blind taste test after their next trip to de Nord.

BeerNut

brianthebard wrote: »

it would be pretty hard to test a pint from Dublin and Belfast side by side.

The OP was concerned about cans, which is easy enough tested. You would do it as a triangle test: three glasses given to the subject blind and they have to pick which is not the same as the other two.

leex

Interesting thread. I have noticed a large difference in expiry dates between UK purchased Guinness cans and Irish ones - both purchased in the most popular supermarket chains. Purchased cans in Asda Enniskillen that had 8 months of a shelf life.

Antrim_Man

BeerNut wrote: »

It's because Newry is in a different country to Dublin and Cork, with different packaging requirements and excise rules. The Guinness in Newry is probably processed and packaged at a Diageo cannery in England and shipped back across the Irish Sea.

Jeezo, I always thought it was in Ireland

BeerNut

Antrim_Man wrote: »

Jeezo, I always thought it was in Ireland

I'm sure both HMRC and the Revenue Commissioners hear that one on a regular basis.

rubadub

Perhaps the cans go under different treatments, like AFAIK kegged beer goes under less processing as it is expected to be used quicker, so cans in low turnover countries could be treated differently, like you get UHT milk.

I doubt people could tell the difference in a blind taste, guinness from the same crate can taste different to me on different days, I put it down to many things, mood, what I have eaten, if I am hungry, hungover, if I have "the goo";)