HBO [US] Boardwalk Empire **Spoilers**

I thought that shot of him turning around and smoking a cigar while looking at his film for the 20th time was amazing

FloatingVoter

Falthyron wrote: »

Capone was already suffering from general paresis brought on by contracting syphilis in the 1920s. Moreover, he appears to have been taking cocaine for over seven years now. The behaviour of someone suffering from paresis and the effects of cocaine is in line with what we see on-screen. Doctors later concluded that Capone had the mental capacity of a 12 year old. I think Stephen Graham has this spot on!

Al's real life alternative ending would have been at the hands of the mob. He was the original Famous Gangster. Luciano was none too impressed with Al the X Factor celebrity. If Capone wasn't an actual historical personality, no screenwriter would dream him up - simply unbelievable.
Our own modern real-life toerags seem to follow the Al Capone textbook of how to behave in public. They'd be better served studying Meyer Lansky but he's -guess what - not as well known.

walshb

Falthyron wrote: »

Capone was already suffering from general paresis brought on by contracting syphilis in the 1920s. Moreover, he appears to have been taking cocaine for over seven years now. The behaviour of someone suffering from paresis and the effects of cocaine is in line with what we see on-screen. Doctors later concluded that Capone had the mental capacity of a 12 year old. I think Stephen Graham has this spot on!

I see what you mean.

tommy2bad

Falthyron wrote: »

Capone was already suffering from general paresis brought on by contracting syphilis in the 1920s. Moreover, he appears to have been taking cocaine for over seven years now. The behaviour of someone suffering from paresis and the effects of cocaine is in line with what we see on-screen. Doctors later concluded that Capone had the mental capacity of a 12 year old. I think Stephen Graham has this spot on!

Which is fair enough if this were a Capone bio-pic. I think Graham was outstanding in the first 2 seasons, restrained and human but as it goes on he's becoming more cartoon than anything else. I wouldn't mind this in most shows but in B E it grates because it such a contrast to the tone of the rest of the cast. The violence is bubbling under and suppressed by the other characters but Capone is a more like the joker in a batman movie. Yes he light up every seine he's in but at the expense of shading and depth.
Remember when he was defending his deaf kid? That's the Capone I'll remember from Grahams performance, not the hyped up head the ball of the last 2 seasons.

Chocolate Lions

tommy2bad wrote: »

Which is fair enough if this were a Capone bio-pic. I think Graham was outstanding in the first 2 seasons, restrained and human but as it goes on he's becoming more cartoon than anything else. I wouldn't mind this in most shows but in B E it grates because it such a contrast to the tone of the rest of the cast. The violence is bubbling under and suppressed by the other characters but Capone is a more like the joker in a batman movie. Yes he light up every seine he's in but at the expense of shading and depth.
Remember when he was defending his deaf kid? That's the Capone I'll remember from Grahams performance, not the hyped up head the ball of the last 2 seasons.

Have you ever been around any coke heads? Grade A assholes. He's doing a great job tbh.

tommy2bad

Chocolate Lions wrote: »

Have you ever been around any coke heads? Grade A assholes. He's doing a great job tbh.

Oh I don't doubt that but I'm remarking the unevenness of the performance in relation to the overall tone of the show. No matter how accurate it is, it's jarring.
As I said Graham is a fine actor and one of the few in this show who can ignite a scene but I feel he over plays it to the expense of subtlety.

Chocolate Lions

tommy2bad wrote: »

Oh I don't doubt that but I'm remarking the unevenness of the performance in relation to the overall tone of the show. No matter how accurate it is, it's jarring.
As I said Graham is a fine actor and one of the few in this show who can ignite a scene but I feel he over plays it to the expense of subtlety.

Fair enough. But I would say that being jarring is what he's meant to do and plays it well, along with the earlier scenes where he shows a more human side.

Deranged coke heads aren't subtle and that's what he's playing, now that Capone is a high flyer. It's a force of character that many would fail to pull off, so I think the performance is great actually.

colinod0806

tommy2bad wrote: »

Which is fair enough if this were a Capone bio-pic. I think Graham was outstanding in the first 2 seasons, restrained and human but as it goes on he's becoming more cartoon than anything else. I wouldn't mind this in most shows but in B E it grates because it such a contrast to the tone of the rest of the cast. The violence is bubbling under and suppressed by the other characters but Capone is a more like the joker in a batman movie. Yes he light up every seine he's in but at the expense of shading and depth.
Remember when he was defending his deaf kid? That's the Capone I'll remember from Grahams performance, not the hyped up head the ball of the last 2 seasons.

You're really talking about two different characters in a way. There's the small time Capone making his way up, then there's this Capone. He's at the top now so nobody can keep him in check and the power (along with other things) has gone to his head.

ixoy

tommy2bad wrote: »

Oh I don't doubt that but I'm remarking the unevenness of the performance in relation to the overall tone of the show. No matter how accurate it is, it's jarring

How is it an uneven performance if it's accurate? Surely that means it's a very good performance. Now the fact that Capone is almost pantomime appears to be actually how he was - should the show really tone him down, make him less like the real Capone? Capone's a nut job and that's how he should be played.

It's important to remember that we've had a time jump of seven years so character shifts like this can happen and Capone's power jump is it at its most evident.

More to the point - look at Luciano in the scene. He clearly thinks Capone's an off-the-rocker lunatic. He handles him carefully.

tommy2bad

ixoy wrote: »

How is it an uneven performance if it's accurate? Surely that means it's a very good performance. Now the fact that Capone is almost pantomime appears to be actually how he was - should the show really tone him down, make him less like the real Capone? Capone's a nut job and that's how he should be played.

It's important to remember that we've had a time jump of seven years so character shifts like this can happen and Capone's power jump is it at its most evident.

More to the point - look at Luciano in the scene. He clearly thinks Capone's an off-the-rocker lunatic. He handles him carefully.

Yeah, this may be where I'm having a problem, if we had seen the transition happen gradually and over time it would not jar so much.

tommy2bad

colinod0806 wrote: »

You're really talking about two different characters in a way. There's the small time Capone making his way up, then there's this Capone. He's at the top now so nobody can keep him in check and the power (along with other things) has gone to his head.

Nail and head, two different characters and no idea how one replaced the other.
As I said I'm not blaming Graham for this, it's the writing and direction that causes this.

squonk

Agreed. It's jarring and somewhat out of character with the show but, at the same time, it does seem worth it for that one scene with Van Alden playing Capone very well. What bothers me more is the stupid entourage of lackeys Capone has around him now. They annoy me more than anything else.

FloatingVoter

squonk wrote: »

Agreed. It's jarring and somewhat out of character with the show but, at the same time, it does seem worth it for that one scene with Van Alden playing Capone very well. What bothers me more is the stupid entourage of lackeys Capone has around him now. They annoy me more than anything else.

He was surrounded by yes-men. The people who dared disagree with him didn't last long. Any other gangster of that era avoided getting into trouble with the taxman - they hired accountants who had a clue. Capone was too up his own myth to bother doing that. Joe Kennedy is raising a future president and Lansky / Luciano are dreaming up the Mafia. Capone is still willing to execute a lackey in his own hotel suite. Without even knowing the history, its not hard to work out that Capone is a scared kid in the deep end of a dark pool.

Chocolate Lions

FloatingVoter wrote: »

He was surrounded by yes-men. The people who dared disagree with him didn't last long. Any other gangster of that era avoided getting into trouble with the taxman - they hired accountants who had a clue. Capone was too up his own myth to bother doing that. Joe Kennedy is raising a future president and Lansky / Luciano are dreaming up the Mafia. Capone is still willing to execute a lackey in his own hotel suite. Without even knowing the history, its not hard to work out that Capone is a scared kid in the deep end of a dark pool.

Really? Scared kid? lol, don't think so. He's completely capable and competent, even as a psycho he rose to the top. He's completely unstable, that doesn't mean scared. Now everyone around him, they're the scared ones..
You can imagine the conversations when he's not in the room, "No more fcuking statuettes in here!".

Dayum

Chocolate Lions wrote: »

Really? Scared kid? lol, don't think so. He's completely capable and competent, even as a psycho he rose to the top. He's completely unstable, that doesn't mean scared. Now everyone around him, they're the scared ones..
You can imagine the conversations when he's not in the room, "No more fcuking statuettes in here!".

Capone was living in the dark ages when Luciano and Lansky were operating their business as a CEO with an MBA at Microsoft would. It's pretty much accepted that the two of them were among the most intelligent. They managed to stop the infighting and create five distinct organisations in a pyramid type structure with a board of directors. Rules were laid down and strictly adhered to. If territorial lines were crossed it was compensated for with money, not blood. Individuals felt safe in contrast with that amateur street-thuggary circus in Chicago.

Capone had the mental capacity of a 12 year old psychiatrists and doctors stated. If that was the case, you can only imagine what the people taking orders from him were like....

Chocolate Lions

Dayum wrote: »

Capone was living in the dark ages when Luciano and Lansky were operating their business as a CEO with an MBA at Microsoft would. It's pretty much accepted that the two of them were among the most intelligent. They managed to stop the infighting and create five distinct organisations in a pyramid type structure with a board of directors. Rules were laid down and strictly adhered to. If territorial lines were crossed it was compensated for with money, not blood. Individuals felt safe in contrast with that amateur street-thuggary circus in Chicago.

Capone had the mental capacity of a 12 year old psychiatrists and doctors stated. If that was the case, you can only imagine what the people taking orders from him were like....

1) Capacity doesn't equate to psychology.

2) I didn't compare Capone with anyone else, or his organisation. Erroneous.

3) His IQ will never be known, how smart or dumb he was is idle talk and there will always be slander. I don't doubt that he was off his rocker and messed up on drugs.

4) Him being a loon doesn't say anything about the capabilities of the people around him. That's just a random statement with no real logic behind it.

jcsoulinger

You described him as "completely capable and competent", don't think so he got caught where others in the same situation didnt. You also reckon he succeeded with the handicap of being a psycho when this was clearly an advantage.

Chocolate Lions

jcsoulinger wrote: »

You described him as "completely capable and competent", don't think so he got caught where others in the same situation didnt. You also reckon he succeeded with the handicap of being a psycho when this was clearly an advantage.

You can be capable, competent and get caught. You can also be capable and nuts and get caught out too. You can be anything you want to be, including narky and obtuse .

FloatingVoter

Al was old school. Being the hardest man on the block and being the boss in your own town was what mattered. He didn't realise that things were going corporate fast. Collecting protection money, breaking heads and being a movie star was the be all and end all to him. All around him, people are moving into legitimate import / export, how to distance themselves from the street thugs, the purchasing of Hoover is probably taking place around now (don't know if BE will take a side on that one).
Stephen Graham is doing a fine job in portraying him - there is no way to do it other than overacting (De Niro with his baseball bat in The Untouchables comes to mind). He was the Clown Prince of American gangsterism but living in the wrong century.

He always had that streak in him http://gfycat.com/ThisRevolvingBrownbutterfly

Clareman

I thought what summed up Capone was when his accountant was trying to count the money he was trying to put him off, at the same time 2 of his lackies had robbed him for the fear of not giving him his money, which was just thrown on a pile in front of him.

Roanmore

Can't believe I'm saying this but I really liked Margaret in that episode, she loosened up a bit.

Clareman

Roanmore wrote: »

Can't believe I'm saying this but I really liked Margaret in that episode, she loosened up a bit.

I liked the way Nukey and she explained what attracted themselves to each other, they both wanted to save each other in a way

walshb

Capone is bugging me now. OTT!

Is there a cooler accent than Lucky's? Love it!

Shane St.

Back on topic what did people think of it? The guy playing the flashbacks looked a lot like him.

Cork boy 55

I liked the bit with Chalky white on the boxing match

Roanmore

MagicMarker wrote: »

Anyway, the elder younger Nucky is uncanny! Brilliant casting there.

Superb, got the mannerisms spot on.

Dayum

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

I liked the bit with Chalky white on the boxing match

Yeah but did he really have to put on the latex dildo suit? It really ruined the scene for me. And Nucky I imagine....

The pacing has changed completely

Lady Chatterton

Mod Note

Dayum - we've received complaints about your posting style. Please post in a constructive manner or don't post in this thread at all.

Mr E

Nah, screw that, MrsD.

I just deleted 26 posts that stemmed from his trolling. He'll be trolling elsewhere for the next fortnight.

radharc

Found it poignant that Al didn't even recognise Jimmy Darmody's name, whether deliberately or not.

spitfireIRL

War!

squonk

Good episode again this week but the highlight was the flashbacks. The actor playing constable Nucky was excellent!

It does look like all out war at this point. While intriguing, I didn't really see the entire purpose of the Van Alden dinner scene. OK, so Eli was lashing Van Alden's missus out of it. Maybe I forgot something along the way but it just seemed unrelated to everything else going on. Gillian's scenes are continuing to be pointless. Maybe there's a big payoff coming but I just can't see it in the context of everything else going on.

I don't think everything has to relate to each other

squonk

Well I'd disagree given that we have only 8 episodes for this season and they're in a wrap up phase. If something isn't relevant to the overall story arc then don't show it.

Boardwalk has never been like that though. It always had multiple threads that were loosely related.

ricero

Great episode van Alden is brilliant

18MonthsaSlave

Have they dialled down the nudity and violence this season and dialled up the storyline or is it as bad as it was last season?

18MonthsaSlave

18MonthsaSlave wrote: »

Have they dialled down the nudity and violence this season and dialled up the storyline or is it as bad as it was last season?

Probably just as violent. Its far faster paced though than before given the time constraints.

Chocolate Lions

It's consistently good for me so far. This last one has ramped things up nicely as expected. Its following the same ebb and swell as the previous seasons, just more condensed - if my phrasing makes sense.

Excellent casting of the younger Nucky, Mickey Doyle is still making me laugh too with that goonish giggle of his.

MagicMarker

ricero wrote: »

Great episode van Alden is brilliant

"I will not be ruled by fear.... coming dear".

LOL

iMuse

Does anyone care about gillian in the mental asylum? Feel like hitting fast forward through her scenes

leggo

I think they're just wrapping up the lives of the characters you cared about during the show's run rather than dealing with all of the historical facts. And I'm alright with that, it's their prerogative. Save the past two seasons, Gillian was a great character. Margaret was central to the plot from the off and we can finally get to the point with her now. It certainly looks like Al's downfall and the rise of the Mafia will be more suggested than shown.

LionelNashe

so when is Eli supposed to have gotten it on with yer woman? recently, or years go?

civis_liberalis

walshb wrote: »

I think at times Capone is over played.

It's a rather poorly done part of the character. He's no Gyp Rosetti. Not by a long way.

civis_liberalis

I'm a bit annoyed with this season because there seems to be quite a few really interesting things that deserve fleshing out, but being cancelled has put paid to any chances of that.

I love the "Nucky: Origins" bits.

Tipsy McSwagger

Margaret sounds more like Nelsons wife than an Irishwoman.

walshb

LionelNashe wrote: »

so when is Eli supposed to have gotten it on with yer woman? recently, or years go?

I wanna' know that too. I assume it's post 1924? That scene wasn't explained well. And what was with Eli's total look of shock and surprise when he saw the photo in the kitchen? Are we to believe that he didn't realise (until just then) that the woman he had "sexual relations" with was Mueller's wife?

Also, the young Nucky finds a body under the pier. Who was the victim?

walshb

walshb wrote: »

I wanna' know that too. I assume it's post 1924? That scene wasn't explained well. And what was with Eli's total look of shock and surprise when he saw the photo in the kitchen? Are we to believe that he didn't realise (until just then) that the woman he had "sexual relations" with was Mueller's wife?

Also, the young Nucky finds a body under the pier. Who was the victim?

I really don't see what the confusion is about. You understood it perfectly. Eli had a drunken night with Mueller's wife. This is all came back to him when he saw the photo.