HBO [US] Boardwalk Empire **Spoilers**

prodsc

very difficult to understand some of the dialect involving Chalky again?

ben.schlomo

Finally caught up on the last two weeks episodes, amazing television is all i can say, the whole thing is building to a what will hopefully be a superb ending, to think people were whining about it being poor is just ridiculous, tv will be far poorer when its gone.

ncmc

Last weeks episode was fantastic, really looking forward to episode 7. Although my fears of it being rushed to fit into 8 episodes were confirmed, Van Alden's and Chalkies death felt very rushed, especially Van Alden's. His story has been a slow burn for 5 seasons and I was really enjoying his and Eli's double act, it was a bit of light relief in a very dark show. It just felt so sudden after 5 seasons of a build up - I really didn't see it coming.

Did he attack Capone as a suicide mission to save Eli and the undercover fed and to ensure Caline went down? Or was it more of a spur of the moment thing?

kellso81

ncmc wrote: »

Van Alden's and Chalkies death felt very rushed, especially Van Alden's.


Did he attack Capone as a suicide mission to save Eli and the undercover fed and to ensure Caline went down? Or was it more of a spur of the moment thing?

There's never going to be a build up to a violent death, the surprise will always feel rushed, especially with a character you like and are rooting for. I'd say he just flipped, knew he was dead anyway, and tried to take Capone with him

Thargor

I don't understand Chalkys death, maybe it was so the mother and daughter wouldnt be harmed but even that was really weak, he should have gone out fighting.

ncmc

Thargor wrote: »

I don't understand Chalkys death, maybe it was so the mother and daughter wouldnt be harmed but even that was really weak, he should have gone out fighting.

That was my feeling too. After all Chalkie went through, he went out like a lamb in the end. But maybe that was Chalkies redemption, he saved daughter and her child and in a way that redeemed him for having a part in his own daughters death.

Falthyron

ncmc wrote: »

That was my feeling too. After all Chalkie went through, he went out like a lamb in the end. But maybe that was Chalkies redemption, he saved daughter and her child and in a way that redeemed him for having a part in his own daughters death.

I know it isn't directly stated, but didn't the little girl say her mother loved her father, but she had to leave him, suggesting that the little girl is, in fact, Chalky's daughter? I know the mother previously denied it, but the story the little girl told suggests otherwise. Perhaps when Chalky realised this he saw a moment to save them both and make up for the death of his other daughter.

Thargor

I think it was pretty obvious from the minute he walked into the suite and they showed the girl on the sofa that she was his.

PhiloCypher

ncmc wrote: »

That was my feeling too. After all Chalkie went through, he went out like a lamb in the end. But maybe that was Chalkies redemption, he saved daughter and her child and in a way that redeemed him for having a part in his own daughters death.

Why was he calling the mother daughter when she wasn't in fact his daughter but the singer he apparently knocked up last season .

ThunbergsAreGo

That was (for some reason) her name

P.Walnuts

Chalky didn't go out like a lamb at all, he went out in the most heroic way possible...sure he could of went in and killed Narcisse and been blown away by his goons, but instead he sacrificed his vengeance in order to give Daughter and his daughter a chance of a better life.

Can't get more selfless than that imo

Thargor

But it doesn't make sense, Narcisse wasnt going to let her go, he was obsessed with her and chalky knew that.

ncmc

PhiloCypher wrote: »

Why was he calling the mother daughter when she wasn't in fact his daughter but the singer he apparently knocked up last season .

Narcisse called her daughter, even though she wasn't his daughter. It came out in the last season that she had witnessed Narcisse kill her mother when she was a child and he then raised her. I'm not sure if it was ever made clear whether they had a sexual relationship or not.

tommy2bad

naughtb4 wrote: »

That was (for some reason) her name

Narcissis killed her mother before he knew her name and she went by the name 'daughter' as it was what he referred to her as. Really twisted abuse story.

_Kaiser_

That was some song

Another one bites the dust in less than glorious circumstances though (Micky)

And, despite it all, I actually feel sorry for Gillian after that letter

ben.schlomo

Another superb episode, it really is in top notch form as a show, the acting from the younger Nucky is flawless to the point of creepy. Luciano and Lansky are excellent playing off each other, the one liners and nods and winks are excellent.

LionelNashe

Did I miss something or did they skip the part where Luciano went to war against Maranzano, and the episode somehow started with the fight already in progress.

CastorTroy

Just found out young Nucky is played by Young Masbath from Sleepy Hollow. It is great casting.

1 episode left

Shane St.

Mickey was always gonna go from talking too much LOL

walshb

Episode 6: Was Eli meant to get whacked by the FED on the orders of Capone and Capone's brother? That scene where the FED an Eli leave the building was odd. Also, was the bag that the FED was carrying the ledgers?

Diabhal Beag

Possibly stupid question: Capone hasn't been put out of the picture yet right? I might have missed the starting headlines thing.

jcsoulinger

walshb wrote: »

Episode 6: Was Eli meant to get whacked by the FED on the orders of Capone and Capone's brother? That scene where the FED an Eli leave the building was odd. Also, was the bag that the FED was carrying the ledgers?

Yes but the fed would not have done it cos he's a fed. And yes ironically Capone gave them to him to take them somewhere safe.

jcsoulinger

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

Possibly stupid question: Capone hasn't been put out of the picture yet right? I might have missed the starting headlines thing.

No but soon

jcsoulinger

Its all a bit meh for me to be honest one episode left and I should be excited to see some sort of climax but I just not bothered. The other seasons were way better.

squonk

I liked this week's episode though it's all looking a bit rushed at this point. Something just doesn't sit right with me though. We have a show that 4 whole seasons show how Nucky is top dog in Atlantic City and goes to great lengths to ensure the status quo then, flash forward a few years, the mob kidnap his nephew and he's pretty much "OK, take it all". It was just too clean. I know he was outgunned but if that was the direction they wanted to go in then I'd have preferred they started later on and used the 4 seasons to get to the point where goes from top dog to finally getting pushed out.

Sorry to see Mickey go <insert silly smirky laugh>. Poor Gillian, she had a pretty terrible life really.

walshb

jcsoulinger wrote: »

Yes but the fed would not have done it cos he's a fed. And yes ironically Capone gave them to him to take them somewhere safe.

Thanks. I was certain this was the case but it just happened so smoothly I thought that maybe I missed something. Anyone else feel that subtitles would be real helpful this season. I am finding a lot of the dialogue very sketchy!

ThunbergsAreGo

squonk wrote: »

I liked this week's episode though it's all looking a bit rushed at this point. Something just doesn't sit right with me though. We have a show that 4 whole seasons show how Nucky is top dog in Atlantic City and goes to great lengths to ensure the status quo then, flash forward a few years, the mob kidnap his nephew and he's pretty much "OK, take it all". It was just too clean. I know he was outgunned but if that was the direction they wanted to go in then I'd have preferred they started later on and used the 4 seasons to get to the point where goes from top dog to finally getting pushed out.

Sorry to see Mickey go <insert silly smirky laugh>. Poor Gillian, she had a pretty terrible life really.

Yes, I thought the same, unless he planned to give it all away (had prepared to give it up). I always over think Boardwalk, mostly because everything had a consequence in most of the earlier season (not this one it seems). What is the Mayflower he is buying into?

Potatoeman

naughtb4 wrote: »

Yes, I thought the same, unless he planned to give it all away (had prepared to give it up). I always over think Boardwalk, mostly because everything had a consequence in most of the earlier season (not this one it seems). What is the Mayflower he is buying into?

I thought he just realised he's done. He can't fight the whole mob and even though in the past he could cut a deal he knows they wont deal with someone who is not Italian.

Clareman

I thought he had all his money put into the stock exchange so giving away his criminal pieces wouldn't have a massive impact on him, I might be reading too much into it, but he finished his bottle of Bacardi at the start of the episode and told the boy at the end to take away all the booze, considering he had exclusive rights to Bacardi I figured he was giving that away as well.

squonk

Potatoeman wrote: »

I thought he just realised he's done. He can't fight the whole mob and even though in the past he could cut a deal he knows they wont deal with someone who is not Italian.

Fair enough but what was the point of the show then? Starting out it was based on the life of a bootlegger in prohibition times who gets to the top of his game through being smart and ruthless but who's also a pretty good guy when he can be.

Fast forward a few years and the series is now about the rise of the mob. The main character of the series then just rolls over when presented with mob pressure. Now all that's left is a few loose ends from his life to tie up after the mob have killed off the main players from his crew and the rest are on shaky ground.

I'd prefer if they'd sat down day one and planned 2 shows.

Show 1: Boardwalk Empire. The rise of a bootlegger from lackey to top dog. Along the way he starts to encounter the changes in the Italian gangsters he's working with, seeing them go from disparate street gangs to more organized criminals who you could still forge alliances with.

Show 2: Mafia Empire. A show with a primary focus on one of two future Mafia kingpins. Early on we get to see how they are building for countrywide domination, pushing out local kingpins, among them our old friend Nucky Thompson who, after a few bits of ducking and diving, gets shoved out towards the end of the first season, along with his crew. Basically what's happening now. They could then take the show onwards into the 30's and maybe 40's too if they wanted.

If they'd decided on this approach day 1 then I think we'd be in the midst of something that was epic. Now all we've got is Boardwalk Empire which I think we'll look back on as a show having many fine points but which, ultimately, was a failure due to not having the time or space to really fulfill it's premise, resulting in a very chaotic and rushed end which seems less than fulfilling.

Potatoeman

squonk wrote: »

Fair enough but what was the point of the show then? Starting out it was based on the life of a bootlegger in prohibition times who gets to the top of his game through being smart and ruthless but who's also a pretty good guy when he can be.

Fast forward a few years and the series is now about the rise of the mob. The main character of the series then just rolls over when presented with mob pressure. Now all that's left is a few loose ends from his life to tie up after the mob have killed off the main players from his crew and the rest are on shaky ground.

I'd prefer if they'd sat down day one and planned 2 shows.

Show 1: Boardwalk Empire. The rise of a bootlegger from lackey to top dog. Along the way he starts to encounter the changes in the Italian gangsters he's working with, seeing them go from disparate street gangs to more organized criminals who you could still forge alliances with.

Show 2: Mafia Empire. A show with a primary focus on one of two future Mafia kingpins. Early on we get to see how they are building for countrywide domination, pushing out local kingpins, among them our old friend Nucky Thompson who, after a few bits of ducking and diving, gets shoved out towards the end of the first season, along with his crew. Basically what's happening now. They could then take the show onwards into the 30's and maybe 40's too if they wanted.

If they'd decided on this approach day 1 then I think we'd be in the midst of something that was epic. Now all we've got is Boardwalk Empire which I think we'll look back on as a show having many fine points but which, ultimately, was a failure due to not having the time or space to really fulfill it's premise, resulting in a very chaotic and rushed end which seems less than fulfilling.

Its based on true events so I think they are sticking with dates people die etc as well as adding a few details and characters.

Chocolate Lions

Great episode! The Gillian aspect was a real kick in the teeth there at the end. I'm enjoying this a lot. With regard to Nucky giving up Atlantic City, he's clearly leaving a sinking ship, even if he rues having to do so.

The whole season is focusing on a shift toward legitimacy and organization, criminal and otherwise. The times have changed and he knows it. He was aiming for legitimacy himself with the Bacardi deal and you could see him trying to adapt to an emerging order. I think he'll do pretty well with Margarets help.

I'm still inclined to think that the kid is Jimmy's, he may not be, but then he has some of the focus on screen and there isn't an ounce of fat in these episodes.

I have a terrible feeling Gillian is going to be lobotomized before any intervention by Nucky can take place. Whether he'll live or die is difficult to call now. Really a lot could conceivably happen.

A well crafted story.

_Kaiser_

squonk wrote: »

Fair enough but what was the point of the show then? Starting out it was based on the life of a bootlegger in prohibition times who gets to the top of his game through being smart and ruthless but who's also a pretty good guy when he can be.

Fast forward a few years and the series is now about the rise of the mob. The main character of the series then just rolls over when presented with mob pressure. Now all that's left is a few loose ends from his life to tie up after the mob have killed off the main players from his crew and the rest are on shaky ground.

I'd prefer if they'd sat down day one and planned 2 shows.

Show 1: Boardwalk Empire. The rise of a bootlegger from lackey to top dog. Along the way he starts to encounter the changes in the Italian gangsters he's working with, seeing them go from disparate street gangs to more organized criminals who you could still forge alliances with.

Show 2: Mafia Empire. A show with a primary focus on one of two future Mafia kingpins. Early on we get to see how they are building for countrywide domination, pushing out local kingpins, among them our old friend Nucky Thompson who, after a few bits of ducking and diving, gets shoved out towards the end of the first season, along with his crew. Basically what's happening now. They could then take the show onwards into the 30's and maybe 40's too if they wanted.

If they'd decided on this approach day 1 then I think we'd be in the midst of something that was epic. Now all we've got is Boardwalk Empire which I think we'll look back on as a show having many fine points but which, ultimately, was a failure due to not having the time or space to really fulfill it's premise, resulting in a very chaotic and rushed end which seems less than fulfilling.

Completely agree with this - great post.

The problem is, as you say, that the entire focus of the show shifted halfway through its run with the result being that the original story is being rushed with loose-ends and established characters being killed off (or otherwise given "closure") and the rise of the Mafia being cut short just as it's getting interesting.

I don't know if this is because of the historical constraints, the show being cancelled, or the portrayal of Capone and others being too good/popular with the fans but the net result is that both sides of the story are ending in a very unsatisfactory manner.

jcsoulinger

Potatoeman wrote: »

Its based on true events so I think they are sticking with dates people die etc as well as adding a few details and characters.

This is part of the problem IMO, If it was completely fictional the writers would have more freedom, Its no cocoincidence that its all the fictional characters being killed off. These are also the more likable personalities.

Somewhere along the way I lost nucky, I'm not sure if he was crowded out by all the other storylines or if maybe he's just not that interesting. I was hoping he would get the better of lucky and his douches just not that much.

PS: how did they f up the hostage switch so bad surely after so many years in the game they would have organised that a lot better.

Potatoeman

jcsoulinger wrote: »

This is part of the problem IMO, If it was completely fictional the writers would have more freedom, Its no cocoincidence that its all the fictional characters being killed off. These are also the more likable personalities.

Somewhere along the way I lost nucky, I'm not sure if he was crowded out by all the other storylines or if maybe he's just not that interesting. I was hoping he would get the better of lucky and his douches just not that much.

PS: how did they f up the hostage switch so bad surely after so many years in the game they would have organised that a lot better.

One thing the character is based on was that he always kept his word. Them screwing them over in the exchange might come back to bit them in the ass. He also just gave away the club before the meeting which was very odd. They could be building up to this:

Clareman wrote: »

I thought he had all his money put into the stock exchange so giving away his criminal pieces wouldn't have a massive impact on him, I might be reading too much into it, but he finished his bottle of Bacardi at the start of the episode and told the boy at the end to take away all the booze, considering he had exclusive rights to Bacardi I figured he was giving that away as well.

ben.schlomo

squonk wrote: »

Fair enough but what was the point of the show then? Starting out it was based on the life of a bootlegger in prohibition times who gets to the top of his game through being smart and ruthless but who's also a pretty good guy when he can be.

Fast forward a few years and the series is now about the rise of the mob. The main character of the series then just rolls over when presented with mob pressure. Now all that's left is a few loose ends from his life to tie up after the mob have killed off the main players from his crew and the rest are on shaky ground.

I'd prefer if they'd sat down day one and planned 2 shows.

Show 1: Boardwalk Empire. The rise of a bootlegger from lackey to top dog. Along the way he starts to encounter the changes in the Italian gangsters he's working with, seeing them go from disparate street gangs to more organized criminals who you could still forge alliances with.

Show 2: Mafia Empire. A show with a primary focus on one of two future Mafia kingpins. Early on we get to see how they are building for countrywide domination, pushing out local kingpins, among them our old friend Nucky Thompson who, after a few bits of ducking and diving, gets shoved out towards the end of the first season, along with his crew. Basically what's happening now. They could then take the show onwards into the 30's and maybe 40's too if they wanted.

If they'd decided on this approach day 1 then I think we'd be in the midst of something that was epic. Now all we've got is Boardwalk Empire which I think we'll look back on as a show having many fine points but which, ultimately, was a failure due to not having the time or space to really fulfill it's premise, resulting in a very chaotic and rushed end which seems less than fulfilling.

Its not just a bit of pressure, its the entire Mafia wanting him dead/gone. Hes fought off pressure plenty of times in the previous years. The show youre looking for is a 20s version of Sopranos. The show is about Nucky, hes the main character, it has shown his good side and his flawed bad side, this is what has led him to where we are now. Cant see how this is anything but superb tv.

ixoy

ben.schlomo wrote: »

The show is about Nucky, hes the main character, it has shown his good side and his flawed bad side, this is what has led him to where we are now. Cant see how this is anything but superb tv.

Exactly. The show is called 'Boardwalk Empire' because it's about Nucky's boardwalk empire. It's not called 'Gangs', it's not 'Rise of the Mobsters', it's not 'Prohibition Wars', it's 'Boardwalk Empire'. The other criminals that have been brought in broaden it but ultimately they're there to show their actions and the like affect the world of Nucky.

FloatingVoter

It was always destined to end this way for Nucky. Since Luciano was introduced as a walk-on part way way back, the whole fate of Nucky was predetermined. This was what happened to minor potentates of the 1920s. They either got legitimate and out (like Joe Kennedy) or fell to the modern Mafia. Nucky was happy with Atlantic city Capone psychotic and careless with Chicago.
Historical spoilers follow:

Luciano / Lansky wanted it all. And they got it - Hoover went to his grave denying the existence of the Mafia (loyal servants will do that). Luciano codded his way out of a lengthy jail stretch into luxurious exile by negotiating an alliance between the Italian mob and the invading US troops in WW2. These guys planned big and the likes of Atlantic city was a crumb from the table as demonstrated in that episode.

galwaylad14

It really is a pity that this final season isn't 12 episodes, it just all seems a little rushed now to reach a conclusion, for example lansky and luciano have gone from being young criminals trying to make it to absolute kingpins in no time at all.

But anyway, there's defintley a sting in the tail yet and there's no way nucky is willing to give everything away so easily. He seems pretty down in the dumps now but I think he'll pull out some stroke yet.

The young kid I think has no significance to the story, he's just there to mirror young deputy nucky. We see the kid is willing to do anything for nucky to try get ahead, just like the young nucky was for the commodore. There's also parrallels in the way they turn down money they are offered. But we see nucky telling him to reject that lifestyle and get an honest job instead, mirroring his own regret at not doing this.

It's going to be a horrible scene next week when we see the young Gillian being brought to the commodore. Still can't wait for next week though, just to see how they wrap in all up

FloatingVoter

Next week I'm guessing ...yes the sacrifice of Gillian to the commodore (and with it Nucky's soul) and possibly her rescue. A cert is the first meeting of the Commission and the proposed creation of the five families. Nucky might be granted a retirement reprieve to Cuba to live happily ever after with Gillian but something makes me doubt this ends happily.
A rewatch of the entire thing is already on the cards for the Xmas season.

WinnyThePoo

I think it's been superb so far. This show has always been about nucky with sprinklings of other characters that add colour to the show. Seeing as this final season is based 7 years after the finish of the previous season alot has changed. The character development of luciano and meyer needn't happen because it already has.

Dayum

Warm up until tomorrow...

Helpneeded86

Really wish I knew the best way to watch this live.

Helpneeded86

Really wish I knew the best way to watch this live.

BMMachine

well that was powerful

krustydoyle

That was absolutely brilliant, maybe a bit foreseen but nonetheless great tv

Soft Falling Rain

The Darmodys, they have to be one of the most unfortunate families in fictional history. Hearing Tommy utter that loaded word 'me-ma' gave me chills.

Alfred Borden

What a great closing episode for a great show. Will badly miss this show, but look forward to watching it all again over the Christmas! The scene with Al and his son was a highlight, so powerful.

eddhorse

Great show, great finish, all tied up nicely !!

iMuse

Only one way it was going to end for Nucky, Could see it coming when the

Kid

appeared on the scene. Will miss the show