Martin Cullen's 'rape' experience

Slideshowbob

What another embarassment for Cullen.

Ill-chosen words in my opinion.

I heard on radio other night the attention brought on him at the time was partly his own fault anyway in the manner in which he awarded the work in question!

Sulmac

A terrible and very insensitive choice of words to use. However, what he and his family (as well as Monica Leech and her family) had to go through is inexcusable and the journalists involved should be disgusted with themselves.

Red_Marauder

Not ill chosen at all. People are far too sensitive about this type of thing.
You think that people who actually went through the ordeal of a rape have so little to worry about as to get offended by this choice of words?

I understand him to mean that his family and his children suffered a personal violation that they had no control over, that it was very traumatic, and I see no problem with him using this term at all.

Sand

Its total nonsense that this took over the media for the past few days when they have remained mute and dazed as the government inflicts something like NAMA upon the taxpayer. It seems we dont have an informed media, just a tabloid press looking for easy headlines.

moceri

Hey if you can't stand the Heat, stay out of the Kitchen.

Reginald P. DuM

I found it incredible that this man would choose such words to court public sympathy. It's not up for debate that he was wronged and badly at that, it must have been traumatic reading the false tales in the papers. But to liken it to rape, and to repeat the word shows a serious lack of sensitivity, no to mention cop on. Boo hoo Martin, so they told a few lies. It reminds me of Berties suicide quip, what do the pay these spin doctors for at all.

Maebh

Red_Marauder wrote: »

You think that people who actually went through the ordeal of a rape have so little to worry about as to get offended by this choice of words?

Yes, actually, I do.

As for the incident itself, I wrote a letter explaining my position on the whole thing to Mr Cullen. I do think that a poor choice of words helps foster a sense of "Anything bad that violates my sense of space, hey let's call it rape!"

Yes, the journos were bad for what they did, and I'm not defending involvement of his family, I still think that using the term rape is indefensible.

hallelujajordan

I have no problem at all with the comment, particularly when you read it in its full context . .

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0123/1224262926553.html

He was trying to convey the trauma that his family had been put through !

yoshytoshy

hallelujajordan wrote: »

I have no problem at all with the comment, particularly when you read it in its full context . .

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0123/1224262926553.html

He was trying to convey the trauma that his family had been put through !

It's hard to understand why he didn't keep quiet about it now though ? ,why did he go and mention rape when people know for sure now ,what actually happened.
Just seems like he's having a dig at the media ,at other peoples expense.

hallelujajordan

yoshytoshy wrote: »

It's hard to understand why he didn't keep quiet about it now though ? ,why did he go and mention rape when people know for sure now ,what actually happened.
Just seems like he's having a dig at the media ,at other peoples expense.

He was speaking at a conference about defamation law . . he was there to share his own personal experience. . I thought he did so quite well ..

yoshytoshy

hallelujajordan wrote: »

He was speaking at a conference about defamation law . . he was there to share his own personal experience. . I thought he did so quite well ..

The whole rape thing though ,he's playing the very game that he is criticizing.
He could have made his point a completely different way ,but I can understand the guy is upset and happy at the same time ,he may have been confused.

fatmammycat

His crass and frankly obnoxious use of 'rape' to describe his treatment was offensive and ridiculous and I know it upset a NUMBER of people who have suffered real and actual rape.

anymore

He and his fellow Ministers for the previous ten years could have ensured that people like Suzy long did not premature deaths - it was not a lack of money that caused her death - millions and millions of taxpayers money have been squandered on quangoes, expenses etc, etc.

Red_Marauder

Maebh wrote: »

As for the incident itself, I wrote a letter explaining my position on the whole thing to Mr Cullen. I do think that a poor choice of words helps foster a sense of "Anything bad that violates my sense of space, hey let's call it rape!"

That is quite the exaggeration.

If you look at the transcript of what was said, how these lies left Cullen isolated and depressed, and how his young children suffered bullying from teachers, journalists and other kids, it is clear that what he went through was a very serious and very public violation.

This is just a case of the media getting their egos bruised, just like how theyve been sulking all week about not having had a photo op with Eamon Lillis's mistress outside the Criminal Courts of Justice.

Having heard excerpts of the speech on the News at One I have to say I thought a lot of his honesty and I actually do think that the word rape was a useful analogy for the kind of intrusion and personal abuse that he was subjected to.

Slideshowbob

poor minister cullen

can i say i felt 'raped' in my pocket when I consider the waste of taxpayers money for e-voting machines over which he had a remit!

I will withdraw wuch a statement immediately as I could never consider what someone who is raped goes through!

itsonlywords

Red_Marauder wrote: »

That is quite the exaggeration.

If you look at the transcript of what was said, how these lies left Cullen isolated and depressed, and how his young children suffered bullying from teachers, journalists and other kids, it is clear that what he went through was a very serious and very public violation.

This is just a case of the media getting their egos bruised, just like how theyve been sulking all week about not having had a photo op with Eamon Lillis's mistress outside the Criminal Courts of Justice.

Having heard excerpts of the speech on the News at One I have to say I thought a lot of his honesty and I actually do think that the word rape was a useful analogy for the kind of intrusion and personal abuse that he was subjected to.

The people of Waterford know very well that martin has a vivid imagination and we doubt very much if things happened like he said they did. Also maybe he was actually raped and he was comparing the two events? It's possible. If we believe everything that comes out of his mouth.

juuge

His choice of the word 'rape' is inexcusable in this instance and again another gaff by a politician that really should know better. How the likes of Cullen, Willie O'Dea, Dick Roche etc, get to positions of authority beggars belief. The guy is a joke, his political record is a joke and his Fianna Fail party is a joke. The sooner we are rid of them the better.

OI

It's Martin bloody Cullen, of course it's wrong

Red_Marauder

itsonlywords wrote: »

The people of Waterford know very well that martin has a vivid imagination and we doubt very much if things happened like he said they did.

They seem to have enough confidence in him to vote for him on a pretty consistent basis.

rubensni

Red_Marauder wrote: »

They seem to have enough confidence in him to vote for him on a pretty consistent basis.

Confidence in his ability to bring home the goods, beyond that nothing maters in politics. Once they bring home the bacon to the constituencies they keep getting in. The person's integrity or credibility are irrelevant.

Maebh

Red_Marauder wrote: »

That is quite the exaggeration.

If you look at the transcript of what was said, how these lies left Cullen isolated and depressed, and how his young children suffered bullying from teachers, journalists and other kids, it is clear that what he went through was a very serious and very public violation.

This is just a case of the media getting their egos bruised, just like how theyve been sulking all week about not having had a photo op with Eamon Lillis's mistress outside the Criminal Courts of Justice.

Having heard excerpts of the speech on the News at One I have to say I thought a lot of his honesty and I actually do think that the word rape was a useful analogy for the kind of intrusion and personal abuse that he was subjected to.

Rape shouldn't be used as an analogy. Words have too much power to be thrown around with little thought for the consequential effects.

Screw the media, I'm talking about rape victims.

And as I said to Mr Cullen, just because some of the symptoms match up doesn't mean they are equal...

Laminations

Maebh wrote: »

Rape shouldn't be used as an analogy. Words have too much power to be thrown around with little thought for the consequential effects.

Screw the media, I'm talking about rape victims.

And as I said to Mr Cullen, just because some of the symptoms match up doesn't mean they are equal...

He was making a figurative and not a literal comparison. The same way you just said 'screw the media'.

It was possibly a poor choice of words and a bit of a blunder but if people didn't look for the slightest thing to get offended by it would have gone unnoticed

Slideshowbob

Laminations wrote: »

He was making a figurative and not a literal comparison. The same way you just said 'screw the media'.

It was possibly a poor choice of words and a bit of a blunder but if people didn't look for the slightest thing to get offended by it would have gone unnoticed

Perhaps he used the term precisely for the exposure he achieved.

It's one thing an effectively anonomous poster saying screw the media here - it's another a minister in our government using an inappropriate term to court sympathy, and express his personal emotions.

Laminations

I can easily understand accusing Bertie of stunts to court sympathy. I don't think this was Cullens intention. It was said at an untelevised conference.
Anyway there are far more damning things to hang Cullen on - one being his performance in government.

Red_Marauder

rubensni wrote: »

Confidence in his ability to bring home the goods, beyond that nothing maters in politics. Once they bring home the bacon to the constituencies they keep getting in. The person's integrity or credibility are irrelevant.

A politician's integrity and credibility are irrelevant? You really think so?

maebh wrote:

Rape shouldn't be used as an analogy. Words have too much power to be thrown around with little thought for the consequential effects.

What power?
I just do not understand why someone could possibly take this as a personal offence? He was talking about his experiences and how he and his family went through a serious personal trauma that deeply effected them.
I don't understand how this term, which is clealy intended to refer to a violation of himself and his family, can actually offend anyone personally.

If I used the term 'murder' on a far, far lighter note than Cullen used this, there would be no issue. For example if I said, "I crashed the car, Dad's going to murder me", I don't think people would think twice about it.

There are a few things going on here
(1) It's Martin Cullen. Enough said.
(2) He's a man. Would there be an issue if Mary Coughlan said this? I would seriously doubt that.
(3)He was having a go at the media. Given the self important nature of some elements in the media and how they reported this story, this reactionary "offense" is of no surprise.

Do you think people are actually thinking about this issue in their daily lives?

Slideshowbob

Red_Marauder wrote: »

A politician's integrity and credibility are irrelevant? You really think so?



What power?
I just do not understand why someone could possibly take this as a personal offence? He was talking about his experiences and how he and his family went through a serious personal trauma that deeply effected them.
I don't understand how this term, which is clealy intended to refer to a violation of himself and his family, can actually offend anyone personally.

If I used the term 'murder' on a far, far lighter note than Cullen used this, there would be no issue. For example if I said, "I crashed the car, Dad's going to murder me", I don't think people would think twice about it.

There are a few things going on here
(1) It's Martin Cullen. Enough said.
(2) He's a man. Would there be an issue if Mary Coughlan said this? I would seriously doubt that.
(3)He was having a go at the media. Given the self important nature of some elements in the media and how they reported this story, this reactionary "offense" is of no surprise.

Do you think people are actually thinking about this issue in their daily lives?

Surely it should be moreso expected that politicians set standards rather than the media?!

Choke

itsonlywords wrote: »

The people of Waterford know very well that martin has a vivid imagination and we doubt very much if things happened like he said they did. Also maybe he was actually raped and he was comparing the two events? It's possible. If we believe everything that comes out of his mouth.

Unless your name is John Halligan, I don't think you can speak for all the people of Waterford.
Also, as I recall it the incident of the journalist entering his house was recorded in the papers at the time.

Arnold Layne

Did Martin Culln join the Mile High Club, when he was "raped" by the media reporting how he flew First Class to the Beijing Olympics and visited his family in Economy Class wearing the supplied slippers?

Choke

I don't think that anyone who reads his original comments can honestly be that offended - it was obvious what he was saying and in what context.

Tbh, I'm inclined to believe him just because I can't see any political advantage in what he said - no PR consultant would have counseled him to make the speech, if anything they would have counseled against.

Macha

Red_Marauder wrote: »

I just do not understand why someone could possibly take this as a personal offence? He was talking about his experiences and how he and his family went through a serious personal trauma that deeply effected them.
I don't understand how this term, which is clealy intended to refer to a violation of himself and his family, can actually offend anyone personally.

Because it belittles the far more serious trauma that is rape. The rape analogy is quickly becoming the new Godwin's law.

Red_Marauder wrote: »

There are a few things going on here
(1) It's Martin Cullen. Enough said.
(2) He's a man. Would there be an issue if Mary Coughlan said this? I would seriously doubt that.
(3)He was having a go at the media. Given the self important nature of some elements in the media and how they reported this story, this reactionary "offense" is of no surprise.

None of this excuses his use of the analogy of rape. And I'm not offended, I just think it was wrong.

Red_Marauder wrote: »

Do you think people are actually thinking about this issue in their daily lives?

Er...aren't we talking about it?

Choke

taconnol wrote: »

Because it belittles the far more serious trauma that is rape. The rape analogy is quickly becoming the new Godwin's law.

He was using 'rape' to mean violation.
That term has been used many times in that context, for instance, to describe the destruction of the environment.

It's a recognised use of the word.