Whelans held me hostage and called the cops

turbot

This all seems rather fishy to me.

1) Bouncers are not policemen (most of the time). They are not trained in gathering evidence. They are not qualified to gather statements from witnesses, or to accurately judge what witnesses state.

2) Proving that you set off a fire extinguisher is not so straight forward, or that you did it deliberately, in a fashion that can be construed as vandalism.

3) Policemen, as far as I'm aware, are not paid to assist pubs in debt collection procedures which is what your situation amounts to. I'm guessing that, if they did that, it's probably illegal. If there are witnesses, they should have taken their details, and taken a statement.

4) I don't think that they have any business threatening you with prosection, etc, if you don't pay a fine. In order for you to pay a fine, you must first be convicted of wrong doing, and the way the law works is that you are presumed innocent until proven guilty. So, it's only if you are proven guilty (in court) with witnesses attending that you might get a criminal record - and I really doubt it for setting off a fire extinguisher. It sounds more like a form of bullying / harrassment.

So - I'm not sure what you can do 2 weeks after the event... however, my suggestion would be to ask lots of questions, raise lots of awareness and write lots of letters to everyone:

1) Put a letter in writing to the owner of Whelans, whoever that is. Ask through what channels can you issue an official complaint under the grounds of being held against your will. Ask to see a copy of the footage. Request that he issue you with a receipt, and a clear explanation for the event, and his grounds for determining that it was you. Ask to see a copy of the witness testimonies, and a clear explanationa s to how such incriminating evidence was gathered. I think you can claim, under the data protection act, that an organisation must release any information they hold about you, so at least you know what they have. I'd read up on www.dataprotection.ie to explore this. You might be able to use this to get video footage.

2) Get the licence numbers of the doormen, and put a letter in writing to the following organisation about them, and enquiring about your rights:

http://www.isia.ie/isia/Main/Home.htm

3) Write to your local TD

4) Contact the organisation that manages and promotes pubs

5) You should also write to the relevant police station and demand an explanation re the actions of the gardai. Are the Gardai allowed to operate a bespoke debt collection service, on behalf of pubs? Can they threaten you with a criminal record for setting off a fire extinguisher (even if you did)?

6) You could also attempt to contact various media outlets about your experience.

At the very least, doing all of the above, will cause a lot of questions to be asked by various people at various levels of authority, and may lead to a refund, or stifle their ability to do such things in the future.

kenon

kenon wrote: »

I'd say the window in which you could do anything is gone.

Whelans most likely wouldn't let you see the CCTV footage anyway, they'd probably insist on the guards looking at it (if they still had the footage).

How long CCTV is stored depends on how many cameras are recording and how they record (motion sensitive or continious record). I would imagine Whelans has a lot of cameras so their system would use a lot of storage space.

cojomo2 wrote: »

I was actually going to go back to them and ask to see the footage but I figured that there actually was no footage(that they just made that up) and would claim that its already been wiped.

Also, the fact that the bouncer said they had me on cctv and the cops never mentioned cctv at all, but instead said there were 2 witnesses makes me think that the cctv part was bull...usually cctv is not monitored, but only checked back on if there was a major incident or something..so I think that there was no cctv footage, but that there were probably 2 witnesses that got it wrong...

cojomo2 wrote: »

I never admitted to anything, but paid up after 30 mins of arguing in the freezing cold, after them trying to scare me with talk of a criminal record, no moving abroad etc etc...anyway, I was drunk, I couldn't think straight and they kept telling me they have witnesses and cctv to the point I where I even started to question if I had done it..but I know I didn't.

Which was it?

mackeminexile wrote: »

From www.dataprotection.ie

Storage and retention.

Section 2(1)(c)(iv) of the Data Protection Acts states that data "shall not be kept for longer than is necessary for" the purposes for which they were obtained. A data controller needs to be able to justify this retention period. For a normal security system, it would be difficult to justify retention beyond a month, except where the images identify an issue – such as a break-in or theft - and is retained specifically in the context of an investigation of that issue.

I would say that seeing as you were charged and that the guards were called then the tapes should be held. There will be an incident report by the gardai involved so you can work from there.

Don't let it lie, it seems to be either a scam or mistaken identity. Either way you were innocent. A few phone calls etc and it could be sorted. Besides €70 is another night out! (ish)

No charge, OP paid up and the matter became a civil matter.

cojomo2

foreign wrote: »

How long CCTV is stored depends on how many cameras are recording and how they record (motion sensitive or continious record). I would imagine Whelans has a lot of cameras so their system would use a lot of storage space.





Which was it?



No charge, OP paid up and the matter became a civil matter.

Both. The bouncer (before the cops arrived) stated that they had me on CCTV, when the cops arrived, they(the cops) didn't mention CCTV but stated there were 2 witnesses

FruitLover

turbot wrote: »

This all seems rather fishy to me

Says the guy called 'turbot'!

cojomo2 wrote: »

at the end of the night when I was leaving a bouncer blocked my exit
...
the bouncers wouldn't allow me leave in the meantime

Sounds like they might be liable for false imprisonment. I'd speak to a solicitor.

uberwolf

cojomo2 wrote: »

but stated there were 2 witnesses

yeah, probably the bouncers...

this is simply not right.

edit: adding link to venue for google search purposes http://www.whelanslive.com/

mackeminexile

I didn't mean 'charged' by the guards. I meant you were charged €80 by Whelans management.

spurious

Did you get a receipt for the €80?

It's a pity you were jarred as it colours your recall of events and would probably affect the outcome (rightly or wrongly) if you were to pursue this. I know if someone wrongly accused me in public of something like that they would need a good solicitor as I would take them to the cleaners for impugning my good name in public.

Are you in a line of work where to be publicly accused of being some sort of vandal who sets off fire safety equipment while blathered would be looked on negatively?

LeBash

If you didnt do, why did you pay for it?

Fact, there is nothing they could do if you did not let it off. A darker fact, regardless of you doing it or not, if they dont have CCTV, there is nothing they can do.

If I were you, id write a letter to both the Garda and Whelans saying you were intimidated into paying it, but would like the money back if neither could provide evidence of this happening. I'd also outline that you will be getting a 3rd party involved, but do not say who that 3rd party would be.

After that, never go back, cause you wont get in, so dont bother.

I do sympathize with what the Garda have to deal with over the weekend in Dublin, but they are far too quick to side with bouncers, and there are alot of people that have been in the right when it comes to trouble with bouncers, then got the raw deal off the coppers cause the bouncer said it.

amacachi

MagicMarker wrote: »

lol, can't believe you paid them.

Wish I could thank that more than once.

arybvtcw0eolkf

cojomo2 wrote: »

Rant over.

Damn right.

There's a Rant & Raving forum for rants.