Govt considering lowering minimum wage

Shea O'Meara

Fred83 wrote: »

update-
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/govt-to-relax-rules-on-payment-of-minimum-wage-443586.html



i cant see this working,if i was a very rich businessman,and interviewing candiates for the job,and hide my money off shore or in some other assets like most people do to avoid taxes,i could say oh times are hard so i am going to pay you below min of wage,dont worry though we are opening up new stores all the time!

Technically this would apply to all high level Banking staff (as they're funded on state borrowings).....wonder if they'll implement it?:P

ei.sdraob

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

I read your post as saying you could hire more people if you didn't have to meet minimum wage requirements. Am I right?
This sets a very bad precident and leaves those with little other option open to abuse. Lots of people are in low paying jobs because it's all they can get. Should we be setting the bar lower so someone can hold the title 'employed' even if they'd be better off tap dancing for loose change on Grafton Street?

no you are wrong if you read this thread *carefully* you would see that i said that lowering to even the UK level would make it possible to create jobs in my case,

i see the need for welfare and min wage, i dont see the need for them being so high

somehow you jumped to the conclusion that i think min wage should be abolished completely, i didnt say anything like that

now that i think of it, hell with the idea, trying to run or grow a business is this country is a waste of time, no wonder companies are leaving in droves its not worth the hassle

Laminations

Fred83 wrote: »

unfortantly those at the top have the most power,personally i think those running aer lingus are bleeding it dry,preaching to everyone cuts must be made whilst givening themselfs massive pay package.

Couldn't agree more, and this type of behaviour is rampant I'd reckon.
Look at the IAA, one rule for the workers and another for the bosses
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2009/0509/1224246190751.html

Authority chief, Eamon Brennan's basic pay rose last year by 22 per cent to €253,000.

Mr Brennan recently agreed to take a 10 per cent cut in his basic pay. He told The Irish Times that his bonus this year would be about one-third less than the €63,000 he earned last year.

Why is this man getting a bonus?? Are we not in a financial crisis??

97i9y3941

wasnt there an convenient loophole stopping civil servants from getting some cut,personally i think 10% cut will mean nothing to the likes of brendan drumm,he will have a healthy pension and house at the end of it all.

Now as for factor of wages/dole,well they slowly and surely undoing the generous welfare system we have,but no sign of them questioning people who spent years on it..

irishh_bob

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

When times are tough we hit the old, the education system, the hospitals, the unemployed, single mothers and the homeless. Because as we all know they are the underlying reason for all our economic ills.:rolleyes:
Instead of berating those who caused the problems, and believe me they will not personally have much of a lifestyle change because of the current economy, they have us turning on each other and focusing on those with the least representation and quietest voice.
Minimum wage is called so because it is the minimum salary deemed able to support a person based on the cost of living. The judges and government officials, bankers, TV personalities etc have the luxury of choosing to muck in with their fellow countrymen in these hard times.
And we are far too quick, possibly, in my view, in a misguided attempt at not seeming economically naive, to back this idea of tightening the collective bootstraps by penalizing those in society who seldom if ever benefit from any so called boom and have probably been on minimum wage for generations if fortunate enough to have a job.
It's a disgrace and we should be ashamed for falling for it and in some minds, thinking we are being simply economically savvy for considering backing it.
We need to have some class.

how have the old been hit of late

irishh_bob

Laminations wrote: »

It was refreshing to hear Ben Dunne comment on this on newstalk yesterday, not sure if its on podcast. He thinks minimum wage is not the issue, the issue is middle and top level management paying themselves too much.

Here's my view. If a company needs to drop below minimum wage they should have to prove to the government that they are in dire straits. Part of this proof should be evidence that pay has reduced considerably from the top levels down. Then the government should allow the company to pay less while they make up the difference (rather than having more workers on the dole). It should only be allowed in extreme cases and only for existing companies.

ben dunne is a populist waffler , always has been

the_syco

ei.sdraob wrote: »

if thats the case (are you sure? taught you can still get medical card, being on min wage after means testing)

yet more reasons so to go on welfare than bothering to work a full week on min wage so...

see here

Actually, it says "if your sole income is the maximum rate of a means-tested payment" which is a bit different to getting one on minimum wage. It seems to mean that if you're getting less than minimum wage, you could get the card (but only if you're not self-employed).

ei.sdraob

the_syco wrote: »

Actually, it says "if your sole income is the maximum rate of a means-tested payment" which is a bit different to getting one on minimum wage. It seems to mean that if you're getting less than minimum wage, you could get the card (but only if you're not self-employed).

thanks for the clarification

no wonder some people might not bother getting a min wage job and would opt to stay on dole, in-order not to loose a medcard

rather sad state of affairs alright and a powerful disincentive to work

the_syco

ei.sdraob wrote: »

thanks for the clarification

no wonder some people might not bother getting a min wage job and would opt to stay on dole, in-order not to loose a medcard

rather sad state of affairs alright and a powerful disincentive to work

No problem, and yes, it is. If the children is in any way needing medication, esp of the kid is f**ked up and needs a lot of it, staying on the dole is often the best option. Otherwise, they may be living in worse housing, with less money, whilst paying for the bills to get the kid medicated, etc.

the_syco

http://news.eircom.net/breakingnews/17200435/?view=Standard

The Government is to allow the minimum wage not be paid in certain sectors of the economy.

Legislation is to go through the Dáil that will allow an "inability to pay" clause be invoked in certain industries such as catering, hairdressing, retail and agriculture sectors.

The Government said it will only be allowed happen when the majority of workers consent to it and the accounts of the business prove that it is in financial difficulties.

Labour Affairs Minister Dara Calleary said the Government is responding to the economic crisis and the move is not aimed at driving down wages.

Ah yes, the old "vote yes, or I'll sack you all" trick. I can see this happening in quite a few places.

Now, for the fun part. Before an employer can take on people, they must first look to getting an Irish person employed. But, if the dole is abetter option, they may not take the employers sh|tty wage. Would the employer then legally be able to import people from outside Ireland to work on this new low wage?

97i9y3941

the_syco wrote:

Would the employer then legally be able to import people from outside Ireland to work on this new low wage?

i would say so yes,i mean looking at time when argos workers went on strike,they brought in staff from england,or when "irish" ferries put the gun to the workers heads and made them switch to cypriot workers to do the job,but of course the goverment sat back on both occasions and said oh we cant do anything, but of course they would never allow to outsource our goverment or public sector,this is where we f#cked up,we out sourced everything,even in britain and germany they are proud they would made sure their own people where looked after first

Amhran Nua

the_syco wrote: »

Would the employer then legally be able to import people from outside Ireland to work on this new low wage?

And of course with free movement of labour from accession states, that gives a massive mobile workforce to Irish employers who will work for less than minimum wage. This will lead to serious abuse. Minimum wage is an important issue, and I don't think it should be abolished or allowed to be slipped through the backdoor.

Lets look first at high rents within municipal areas, and cartel behaviour within hospitality and retail sectors to deal with high costs in Ireland, as well as similar behaviour from importers to Ireland. Irish wages are not especially large, and few enough people are actually on minimum wage.

At its most basic, how do they expect people to start spending in the economy again if their wages are being cut from an already low level? Not everyhting thats good for business profits is good for the overall economy (or tax receipts).

partyguinness

I remember going mental when it was brought it in the first place and then Mary Harney kept raising it.

The words 'horse' and 'bolted' spring to mind.

I just cldnt understand it. It was plainly obvious that it is was unsustainable but those dumbwits in the PDs taught it was good and would make every one feel smug about themsleves.

This country is retarded...nobody plans, nobody has any interest in getting a job done properly if a short cut can be taken. Doing the proper thing is an alien concept....:mad:

Sorry just my "I told you so 10 years ago" rant.

anymore

I have always found it funny that FF Minister of State from Cork's Northside, Billy Kelleher has advocated reducing the minimum wage given that his constituency office is in Dillon's Cross. This is an areas that has a higher proportion of unemployed and minimum wage earners than in most parts of Cork. It has seemed to me be a terrible betrayal of some many of the working class people who traditionally vote for FF.
Then again Billy Kelleher is both a farmer and a landlord, so he can hardly expect to empathise with the unemployed or minimum wage worker.

97i9y3941

Amhran Nua wrote: »

At its most basic, how do they expect people to start spending in the economy again if their wages are being cut from an already low level? Not everyhting thats good for business profits is good for the overall economy (or tax receipts).

im sorry if this causes murder,but its the joe soap i feel sorry for,the person doing the min wage jobs,they been told getting their hours cut already etc,ok we have the public sector telling us the same stuff about their wages been cut,but joe soap cant afford to really argue with employer about getting his min wage lowered,he doesnt have the same protection as the public worker has..

RTÉ Prime Time: David

I'm a producer for RTE's Prime Time and I'm looking to get in contact with people who are currently on the minimum wage who might be interested in contributing to a programme on the subject.

I'm looking for people who have perhaps lost a job in another industry and who are now having to work for minimum wage and couples where one of whom is on minimum wage.

However I'm interested to hear from anyone who is on minimum wage and feels they have a story to tell.

David

david.lawless@rte.ie

Eliot Rosewater

Amhran Nua wrote: »

And of course with free movement of labour from accession states, that gives a massive mobile workforce to Irish employers who will work for less than minimum wage.

The question is: whats the problem with that? Why cant Irish people compete with other EU citizens?

Theres a large misconception out there that foreigners can work for less because its cheaper where they are from. The assumption is that the foreign workers are sending money home to support their families.

In my experience its off the mark. The main reason, from what I can see, that Eastern Europeans work for less is because they live for less. They shop in the cheap shops and don't go out on the town; instead they have house parties in their homes. Irish people arent willing to accept that working unskilled jobs shouldn't yield the kind of living standard they feel entitled to.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

ei.sdraob

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

Irish people arent willing to accept that working unskilled jobs shouldn't yield the kind of living standard they feel entitled to.

well said and there lies the problem, its very hard to "downsize" dreams and expectations for some

during the boom while we had 100,000 people (granted most of these 100K weren't all wasters, and some were between jobs, but we all know someone who didnt bother getting a job even in best of times and chose to become a government artist) on dole we had to import people in order to work at jobs that no one wanted, and didnt have much better benefits than dole

97i9y3941

well,we have loads of people with their degrees and dipolmas these days,but theres not enough work for them either..

ei.sdraob

Fred83 wrote: »

well,we have loads of people with their degrees and dipolmas these days,but theres not enough work for them either..

these are people trained for the "top of pyramid" type jobs

if theres no jobs being created at the bottom of the pyramid, how is the top meant to grow

sorry for my use of the word pyramid, job/skills lader could be another word

PomBear

I thought FF were meanta give fair budgeting :rolleyes:

Another attack on people on the working class. Well done FF. They don't seem to realise this is a drop in the ocean compared to the rich who evade tax

rightwingdub

The minimum wage has to be cut, needs to be cut to €6.50 per hour. Thousands of jobs have been lost already quite simply because the minimum wage is far too high in this country, more jobs will be created if the minimum wage is cut and existing jobs are more likely to be safeguarded.

Personally, I don't think the legislation goes far enough as It provides cits to the minimum wage in cases of "inability to pay" clauses.

ei.sdraob

irishh_bob wrote: »

a high percentage of eastern europeans in my experience do indeed send much of thier wages home to poland or wherever , they also live a minimalist lifestyle , ten to a house and drinking at home , most of them are not earning enough to be in the tax net either so in reality , they contribute very little to the economy

but the companies they work for do have to pay all sorts of taxes

thats better than no taxes if these jobs didnt exist

anymore

A letter from SIPTU in todays Irish Times is relevant -

Madam, – Your Dáil report on the minimum wage (Home News, January 27th) carries the sub-heading: “Gilmore calls on Government to ‘come off the fence’ and assure there will be no cut”. A timely call, in view of the ongoing Government spin on such cuts.
But why is there no all-party unity to find even the suggestion of such a cut totally reprehensible? Why, following the self-destruction of the PD party, do we now have a Fianna Fáil-Green-exPD Coalition Government hell bent on outdoing any assault on the threshold of decency that the PDs might have been accused of in their heyday? Indeed, it was the then tánaiste and PD leader Mary Harney who introduced the minimum wage. True, she did not take on board the recommendation of the Government-appointed Minimum Wage Commission that such a rate should be set at two-thirds of median earnings. Had this happened, a rate of between €10.30 and €10.80 an hour should have been set in July 2007.
The rate set, €8.65, did no more than ensure that the value of the minimum wage first introduced in April 2000 was brought into line with average earnings increases occurring since then. Had Ms Harney’s original criteria continued to prevail, that rate should have been raised to €9.06 in July 2009.
The minimum wage, however, remained frozen at its July 2007 level, while another of Ms Harney’s original set of minimum wage principles was shamelessly violated in the interim. In 2001 the then PD tánaiste rightly proclaimed it was inappropriate to hit those on the minimum wage with any income tax on such meagre earnings. Nonetheless, as a result of last May’s income levy measures, the Fianna Fáil-Green- Harney Government has already cut the living standards of minimum wage earners by 2 per cent, leaving them with take-home pay of no more than €8.48 an hour. Any suggestion to hit the lowest of low paid workers with even more cuts should therefore be greeted with universal outrage no less than healthy contempt. – Yours, etc,
MANUS O’RIORDAN,
Head of Research,
Siptu,
Liberty Hall, Dublin 1.

anymore

rightwingdub wrote: »

The minimum wage has to be cut, needs to be cut to €6.50 per hour. Thousands of jobs have been lost already quite simply because the minimum wage is far too high in this country, more jobs will be created if the minimum wage is cut and existing jobs are more likely to be safeguarded.

Personally, I don't think the legislation goes far enough as It provides cits to the minimum wage in cases of "inability to pay" clauses.

Are you seriousily saying an adult can live on € 260 a week ?
Again you and the Min Wage cutters refuse to engage with the fact that people on this level of wages will have to be supported by the Social Welfare System. This means that the tax payer is not actually paying the full cost of employment but is transferring a lrge part of the cost to the taxpayer. Companies paying 12.5 % Corporate Tax are not paying proportionately for this subsidisation.

anymore

ei.sdraob wrote: »

these are people trained for the "top of pyramid" type jobs

if theres no jobs being created at the bottom of the pyramid, how is the top meant to grow

sorry for my use of the word pyramid, job/skills lader could be another word

Again your disregard for facts is noteworthy ; the majority of degree holders tend to hold middle rank jobs not high ranking jobs. Even in Institutes of technologies, if you are hoping for a permanent lecturing position, forget about a degree, a masters will be required. here I am quoting a long term staff member of an IT.
In fact technology has removed the need for or significantly reduced the need for many of the traditional bottom of the pyrmaid jobs e.g ' typing pools, as such no longer exist. Potatoe picking no longer needs great armies of pickers but rely on much smaller numbers combined with machinery. Even road sweeping now relies on the use of increasing numbers of machines.

Sleepy

anymore wrote: »

Are you seriousily saying an adult can live on € 260 a week ?
Again you and the Min Wage cutters refuse to engage with the fact that people on this level of wages will have to be supported by the Social Welfare System. This means that the tax payer is not actually paying the full cost of employment but is transferring a lrge part of the cost to the taxpayer. Companies paying 12.5 % Corporate Tax are not paying proportionately for this subsidisation.

Yes.

An adult can live on €260 a week.

j4vier

i'd be wary of lowering the min wage of people to 260e a week for the following reasons

1 : its very close to the actual dole, chances are people will prefer to be on the dole than work their ass off for 60e a week, which will include trasportation costs etc

there should be incentives to get ppl off the dole , not the other way round

2 cost of living is lowering , but is not low enough to justify bein on that amount of money

3 i agree an adult can live on 260e a week, but that adult will have no life, no family no nothing
agreed the dole is low, but that is meant to be a temporary thing

4 if its an employer's market now, i cant imagine when they can get people to do all sorts of jobs for even less money

just my point of view

anymore

Sleepy wrote: »

Yes.

An adult can live on €260 a week.

An adult can exist on € 260 a week, not 'live' in any manner other than bare subsistence. Then again, for many of the employers anxious to reduce the minimum wage, it is questionable if they regard ' minnimum wage workers as fully human, more like cheap assets to be exploited.

rightwingdub

anymore wrote: »

Are you seriousily saying an adult can live on € 260 a week ?
Again you and the Min Wage cutters refuse to engage with the fact that people on this level of wages will have to be supported by the Social Welfare System. This means that the tax payer is not actually paying the full cost of employment but is transferring a lrge part of the cost to the taxpayer. Companies paying 12.5 % Corporate Tax are not paying proportionately for this subsidisation.

What percentage of people working are on the minimum wage, I doubt whether it is more than 6% of the labour force, cut the dole as well, make it more attractive for people to work in modestly paid jobs.

I have one question, are more jobs likely to be created if the minimum wage is €6.50 per hour or at the current level of €8.65 per hour? I think anyone with a basic understanding of business knows the answer to that question.

Shea O'Meara

rightwingdub wrote: »

I have one question, are more jobs likely to be created if the minimum wage is €6.50 per hour or at the current level of €8.65 per hour? I think anyone with a basic understanding of business knows the answer to that question.

How about we cut your wages to 6.50 an hour? I assume you'd be okay with that.
Here's where your right wing view falls in on itself; you want everyone to be on the same low wage income to help our economy.....how very Socialist of you:D Oh, wait, but only the already poor and those in dead end low paying jobs...sorry you are indeed right wing.
I'm no economist, but the higher the salary the higher the tax paid? Oh, again I keep forgetting, that doesn't apply if you really make a lot of money.
What's the point in lowering the minimum to create jobs people can't afford to take?

anymore

If you are right about the 6%, then it only underlines how pointless it is to be focussing on cutting the minimum wage. In any developed country, the least effective use of scarce resources is in creating bottom of the pile low skill jobs. A long list of multi national companies in the retail and services have been able to establish themselves profitably in Ireland despite the disadvantages of our so called high minimum wage. Which suggests it is the inefficient Irish businesses or those selling the wrong product or service or selling them badly who are anxious to have the minimum wage reduced to compensate for their inefficiencies. Instead of cutting the minimum wages, lets just let the inefficient businneses go the wall. Other companies will fill the place and provide the jobs when the bad businneses gp to the wall.

sceptre

Where's the 6% figure from. Is there a link that I missed that mentions 6%?

97i9y3941

looks like terrible and aggressive cuts are coming into play

http://www.leinsterleader.ie/news/Ninety-jobs-go-at-Naas.6026924.jp

NINETY jobs have been lost at a Naas-based meat processing concern. The decision follows a "strategic" review of operations at the QK Meats Ltd. plant at The Maudlins, off the Dublin Road.
According to the company the viability of stand-alone boning hall operations in Ireland has been adversely affected by the recession. The company also cited the high costs of manufacturing in Ireland and the weakness of sterling as factors which influenced the decision.

The company also said that a number of those affected have already been re-deployed to other operations within the company. However Adrian Kane of the trade union SIPTU said opportuniteis for transfer to other operations are limited. He also said staff had resisted a 50% pay cut.

Shea O'Meara

It's the different rules for different sections of society that gets me.
The argument is a lower minimum wage will help the economy, create jobs. The reason given is companies can't afford to maintain or increase staff due to the high cost of the current wage.
Soft target I know, but why didn't this logic apply to the banks? The argument for saving the banks can be made for any business. If you've a small business employing less than 100 staff, which is going to the wall, but they can argue they just need breathing room and when the economy picks up they'll be self sufficient again. Why not bail them out too? Why is cutting minimum wage the first thought of some people? Why when they banks looked like folding did we not say, make yourself more competitive, cut salaries?
We need a minimum wage simply because there are scumbags out there that would pay a grown man with a family 2 euros an hour if they thought they could get away with it. This will be great for the boardroom, but create poverty like we've not seen in modern times.

donkey balls

Shea it has been going on within the transport industry for years companies taking advantage of foreign nationals, i know of one company paying their drivers 380e a week to drive a 40ft and on average they would work 10-12hrs a day with no o/t(that works out less than the min wage)

Tesco have outsourced their transport to another company were that company is paying drivers the min wage.(fuel&drivers wage are the biggest cost factor in distribution)

so have tesco passed on the savings to the customer? what do you think ,bottom line is pay&treat your staff like crap and they wont give a toss about the job.
i worked for a large bluechip company whose motto was PSP(people service profit)whcih basicly is treat your staff well they will provide a good service which creates profit.

97i9y3941

yes,but once again its the most vunerable getting screwed again,looking at public sector or some "pay freeze"they are guarantteed their jobs and the have the unions etc to put the fear of gov into goverment,why dont the ministers do an experiment and live off 200 a week to see what the ordinary people go through,its the usual buracracy sh#te we have..

then theres this on going of outsourceing everything,i think the gov are quiet happy to let the irish people sit on the dole,patrotic my b#llocks

97i9y3941

donkey balls wrote: »

Tesco have outsourced their transport to another company were that company is paying drivers the min wage.(fuel&drivers wage are the biggest cost factor in distribution)

dunnes did the same didnt they?,whelans looked after them for years then dunnes switched,leaving alot of whelan people out of work..

donkey balls

Fred83 wrote: »

dunnes did the same didnt they?,whelans looked after them for years then dunnes switched,leaving alot of whelan people out of work..

when the contract between dunnes&whelans finished the staff that looked after the drapery logistics where taking over by wincanton.
some of the staff working in the frozen&chill section went to allied foods then around 2008 the transport staff in the drapery section lost there jobs but they were not working for the min wage.

the govt are pitting the PS against the private sector with there spin(divide&conquer)i was made redundant but i dont hold it against the PS workers that have a job i choose to work in the private sector,and people have got to remember that the frontline staff in the PS are not earning vast amount of money that the govt would have you believe

anymore

donkey balls wrote: »

when the contract between dunnes&whelans finished the staff that looked after the drapery logistics where taking over by wincanton.
some of the staff working in the frozen&chill section went to allied foods then around 2008 the transport staff in the drapery section lost there jobs but they were not working for the min wage.

the govt are pitting the PS against the private sector with there spin(divide&conquer)i was made redundant but i dont hold it against the PS workers that have a job i choose to work in the private sector,and people have got to remember that the frontline staff in the PS are not earning vast amount of money that the govt would have you believe

Loath though I am to defend the Government, I dont the Government are trying to say that the PS front line staff are earning a vast amount of money. But it is a reality that benchmarking has resulted in a big disparity between what PS staff are earning in comparision to the private sector. Some of the papers that were used in the benchmarking were delibrately destroyed so there is no full record of the basis for benchmarking. There are areas in the PS where productivity is significantly lower than in the Private sector. And private sector workers at the front line, at the minimum wage level, do not have defined benefit pension schemes. There seesm to be a reluctance or even fear to compare like with like at the lower levels.

djpbarry

anymore wrote: »

An adult can exist on € 260 a week, not 'live' in any manner other than bare subsistence.

You’re kidding, right? If ever a sign was needed that this country has been awash with money for the last few years...

So what would consider to be a reasonable “minimum” weekly income?

anymore

djpbarry wrote: »

You’re kidding, right? If ever a sign was needed that this country has been awash with money for the last few years...

So what would consider to be a reasonable “minimum” weekly income?

I'm sorry, I dont actually understand your post !
Are you saying € 260 is a reasonable minimum wage or it is not ?

djpbarry

anymore wrote: »

I'm sorry, I dont actually understand your post !
Are you saying € 260 is a reasonable minimum wage or it is not ?

I’m not suggesting that the minimum wage should be reduced to this level – I’m pretty ambivalent toward the “lowering the minimum wage” argument. However, I'm surprised that people consider a sum of €260 to be too little to support an individual over the course of a week. It’s come up a few times on this forum over the last year or so and I think some people are grossly over-stating how much it costs to support an individual in this country.

So, what would you consider to be the minimum sum necessary to support an adult for seven days? Take the minimum standard of living to be whatever you like; e.g. a weekly visit to the cinema, visit to the pub, etc.

anymore

djpbarry wrote: »

I’m not suggesting that the minimum wage should be reduced to this level – I’m pretty ambivalent toward the “lowering the minimum wage” argument. However, I'm surprised that people consider a sum of €260 to be too little to support an individual over the course of a week. It’s come up a few times on this forum over the last year or so and I think some people are grossly over-stating how much it costs to support an individual in this country.

So, what would you consider to be the minimum sum necessary to support an adult for seven days? Take the minimum standard of living to be whatever you like; e.g. a weekly visit to the cinema, visit to the pub, etc.

I could ' live 'on € 50 for a week and have done so. But the question of what a person could ' live' on for a 'week' isn't particularily relevant or indeed helpful when discussing the wages a person, an adult, needs to be paid to have any kind of standard of living on an ongoing basis. Occassionaly in the UK, you have had Tory MPs going to live on something like minimum wages and it has usually ended up making looking silly.
Nobody discussses the salary of executives in terms of thoer weekly pay; it is always an annual sum. I dont see why people on the lower end of the wage scales should be reduced to seeing how little they can survive on for a given week !

97i9y3941

primetime did a good piece on the min wage last night,siptu members rightly pointed out like as i said,if this rule is brought in for a company who says they cant afford to pay min wage it will be exploited to the last..

djpbarry

anymore wrote: »

I could ' live 'on € 50 for a week and have done so. But the question of what a person could ' live' on for a 'week' isn't particularily relevant or indeed helpful when discussing the wages a person, an adult, needs to be paid to have any kind of standard of living on an ongoing basis.

You stated that an individual could not live on €260 per week – I was merely seeking clarification.

anymore

djpbarry wrote: »

You stated that an individual could not live on €260 per week – I was merely seeking clarification.

For the record, where did I state " that an individual could not live on € 260 a week ".
.

djpbarry

anymore wrote: »

For the record, where did I state " that an individual could not live on € 260 a week ".
.

I really don't want to get into arguing semantics. You stated that, essentially, an adult could 'get by' on 260 per week (not your exact words), right? I am saying that (speaking from experience) an adult (depending on their circumstances, of course) can manage fairly well on that sum of money, in my opinion. But of course, my opinion is based on what I consider to be a reasonable standard of living. Others may differ - maybe I have modest expectations!

anymore

djpbarry wrote: »

I really don't want to get into arguing semantics. You stated that, essentially, an adult could 'get by' on 260 per week (not your exact words), right? I am saying that (speaking from experience) an adult (depending on their circumstances, of course) can manage fairly well on that sum of money, in my opinion. But of course, my opinion is based on what I consider to be a reasonable standard of living. Others may differ - maybe I have modest expectations!

The whole thrust of my arguement is that an adult can't have a decent quality of life on € 260 a week in a high cost economy such as Ireland.
I dont know of any adults who can live on € 260 a week on a long term basis without subsidy or intervention of one kind or another from State Agency. And that, to relate my comments to the subject of the thread, is why I contend, that as the minimum wage is lowered by companies, the amount of subsidy required for a person to live on a minimum wage, bearing in mind all of the expenditures required to live including health etc, increases and is paid for by the general taxpayer.