Smart lie to new customers :(

IrishTonyO

Is the SMART cap done like UPC, as in they have a 250Gb cap but that is for all traffic upload as well as download.

shamonemofo

I think the generic measurement for Cap/FUP with most ISP's would cover uploading and downloading... to the best of my knowledge

pizzahead77

IrishTonyO wrote: »

Is the SMART cap done like UPC, as in they have a 250Gb cap but that is for all traffic upload as well as download.

Yes - uploading is included in the cap

HDfan

ChopperByrneAlt

Who the hell downloads more than 5GB a day legally anyway?

If you don't now: We have XXI cent. :

i Tune - legall series. movies, shows in HD. You pay , you download.

Steam - legal games, demos, updates, paches. You pay , you download.

You Tube - legall private movies, shows HD quality. You watch , you download.

HD camcorders - you make movie and you share with friends ( 1 h movie 2-3 GB ) you uploads to friends you , you downloads from friends.

DH TV - you pay monthly and you watch .

+ Skype + WebCam +....

and many more way to use your big.. large... 5.5 GB per day.

If you have family... it is even easier.

Dioza

HDfan wrote: »

ChopperByrneAlt


If you don't now: We have XXI cent. :

i Tune - legall series. movies, shows in HD. You pay , you download.

Steam - legal games, demos, updates, paches. You pay , you download.

You Tube - legall private movies, shows HD quality. You watch , you download.

HD camcorders - you make movie and you share with friends ( 1 h movie 2-3 GB ) you uploads to friends you , you downloads from friends.

DH TV - you pay monthly and you watch .

+ Skype + WebCam +....

and many more way to use your big.. large... 5.5 GB per day.

If you have family... it is even easier.

I have to agree with HD on this, playing xbox live, demos, downloads and patches can be in the regions of 1.5 gb each. A lot of youtube is in HD now. A lot of downloading can be done specially if theres more than one computer in the family.

Cabaal

Dioza wrote: »

I have to agree with HD on this, playing xbox live, demos, downloads and patches can be in the regions of 1.5 gb each. A lot of youtube is in HD now. A lot of downloading can be done specially if theres more than one computer in the family.

None the less there is a limit to how much stuff you watch even as a family, so that covers videos.

As for games there's a limit to how much money you pay for games on the likes of steam and if you have that much expendable income and are that pushed about caps then a business line woukd be more suitable.

RoyalMarine

HDfan wrote: »

ChopperByrneAlt


If you don't now: We have XXI cent. :

i Tune - legall series. movies, shows in HD. You pay , you download.

Steam - legal games, demos, updates, paches. You pay , you download.

You Tube - legall private movies, shows HD quality. You watch , you download.

HD camcorders - you make movie and you share with friends ( 1 h movie 2-3 GB ) you uploads to friends you , you downloads from friends.

DH TV - you pay monthly and you watch .

+ Skype + WebCam +....

and many more way to use your big.. large... 5.5 GB per day.

If you have family... it is even easier.

Dioza wrote: »

I have to agree with HD on this, playing xbox live, demos, downloads and patches can be in the regions of 1.5 gb each. A lot of youtube is in HD now. A lot of downloading can be done specially if theres more than one computer in the family.

Cabaal wrote: »

None the less there is a limit to how much stuff you watch even as a family, so that covers videos.

As for games there's a limit to how much money you pay for games on the likes of steam and if you have that much expendable income and are that pushed about caps then a business line woukd be more suitable.

aight, ive been throttled myself, and just want to add a small bit on this.

ive got a phone line in my apartment. i share the line with 6 other people.

between youtube, gaming, skype video calls, sharing video's and pics with family, web surfing, and occasionally some people using downloads, we hit over 400gb a month.

5.5gb is pure ****e per day when you break it down.

Cabaal

RoyalMarineComm wrote: »

5.5gb is pure ****e per day when you break it down.

The cap you want though is far above the average joe's internet usage in 30day period, as such if you want something more then you'll likely have to pay for it

Dioza

Cabaal wrote: »

None the less there is a limit to how much stuff you watch even as a family, so that covers videos.

As for games there's a limit to how much money you pay for games on the likes of steam and if you have that much expendable income and are that pushed about caps then a business line woukd be more suitable.

The new call of duty, 60 quid a once off payment. All the transfers that go on for a child playing that weekends and evenings add up. Theres no massive expendable income.

animaal

Relatively new Smart customer here.

I've been with them since the start of the year. When I was making the call to transfer my line too them, they were very up-front about the 170GB limit.

Overall, I'm very happy.

Cabaal

Dioza wrote: »

The new call of duty, 60 quid a once off payment. All the transfers that go on for a child playing that weekends and evenings add up. Theres no massive expendable income.

A child playing call of duty does not hit anywhere near 5GB and the large download of the game as a whole is a once off event.

You can try to justify whatever usage you want but fact remains is that 5GB a day is not normal usage for a average joe residential broadband connection in Ireland or even the UK,

Dioza

Cabaal wrote: »

A child playing call of duty does not hit anywhere near 5GB and the large download of the game as a whole is a once off event.

You can try to justify whatever usage you want but fact remains is that 5GB a day is not normal usage for a average joe residential broadband connection in Ireland or even the UK,

I'm just saying it all adds up. And whatever the average is still doesn't correct the fact that they are still advertising as unlimited.

http://www.smarttelecom.ie/residential_offnet/residential_offnet_compare.aspx

170 GB, no matter how you brake it down or work out averages or daily usage is still not unlimited and should not be described as.

HDfan

5GB a day is not normal usage for a average joe

Is smart telecom broadband for everyone ? or just for below average ?

If for everyone they should give option to select from. Now you pay 46 Euro have 24 Mb and 170 GB limit, your friend pay 8 Euro have 2 Mb and have..... o yes 170 GB. So nice.

If average Earnings in Irlend are 4 K that means somebody with 8 K is a bad man ? I don't think so

All I need is fair conditions for customers.

the_law

I have to agree with HDfan also. For one person on their own, yes 5GB is a lot... But many flats share broadband between 3/4 people - never mind student flats with 5+ in them.

For 4 people in a flat/house, 170GB = 42.5GB each = 1.37Gb/day... not so big any more.

My personal internet usage (I live alone) is around 220GB/month... now I'm on UPC, so that suits fine. I used be on Smart back before caps and actually would have gone with them by choice in my new flat (I found their service excellent) but they weren't available, and just as well with all this low-cap messing around.

Edit: 1.37Gb per day is less than an hour of HD youtube.

Dioza

I'll just post what i posted on the smart forums on their site.

1. I was with Digiweb and the plan i was on there had a 40Gb cap per month, anything over that was slow but usable at maybe 40kbs. Now to check my email with a throttled smart line i have time to make a cup of tea while it loads.

2. I was not aware of the "fair usage" condition untill last friday, i know the whole "you should always read the T&C of anything you sign up to" but 'comon, its on the website as "Unlimited" so i had no reason to doubt that it wasn't. I don't see how the word unlimited can be used on a product that isn't. Digiweb was "unlimited" providing i stay within the 40Gb download limit per month but they had it advertised online as what it was.

3. As i said, being unaware of the fair usage condition, i rang up smart friday last to see what was up with my connection. On hold for more than half an hour (on a mobile as i only have the landline for the internet) which cost €14. After moving from 6th, 5th, 4th, 5th, 4th, I finally got through and this is the conversation i had, bear in mind i'm on hold 35-40 mins.

After giving account details etc.
Me : I'm just calling up to see if theres a problem with my connection
Him : No, its on the computer here that your being penalised for exceeding the fair usage limit, it's 170Gb or there abouts.
Me : But i'm on a contract for unlimited broadband? It said so on the website when i ordered.
Him : No it says quote, unlimited. unquote (thats exactly what he said)
Me : Ok whatever, thats grand bye.
Him : Wait sir, would you like me to lift the throttle?

At that point he took my email address and its now tuesday and i still have slow speeds. The next day i got an email alright but that was the "warning" notification that i never received.

To be honest the 170GB i could live with although its not originally what i signed up to, its the way i (and alot of others) have been treated.

dub45

Cabaal wrote: »

None the less there is a limit to how much stuff you watch even as a family, so that covers videos.

As for games there's a limit to how much money you pay for games on the likes of steam and if you have that much expendable income and are that pushed about caps then a business line woukd be more suitable.

But why should you or anyone else decide that there is a limit to anyones use?

Should sky offer only a certain number of channels because nobody could possible make use of them all? Should people not have a television and radio because you defintely can't use them together. It is up to people themselves to decide what they want to do with their disposable income not yourself.
Several people here have made a good case for legitimate use of a considerable volume of data per day and increasingly entertanment is being planned on the basis of downloads rather that disc media.

For example it is widely accepted now that blue ray will be last video disc medium and to replace blue ray by downloads is going to involve a considerable amount of data. If the apple tablet is anywhere near the type rumoured then it seems to have the potential for a lot of downloading or streaming. And so it goes..............

dub45

Dioza wrote: »

I'll just post what i posted on the smart forums on their site.

1. I was with Digiweb and the plan i was on there had a 40Gb cap per month, anything over that was slow but usable at maybe 40kbs. Now to check my email with a throttled smart line i have time to make a cup of tea while it loads.

2. I was not aware of the "fair usage" condition untill last friday, i know the whole "you should always read the T&C of anything you sign up to" but 'comon, its on the website as "Unlimited" so i had no reason to doubt that it wasn't. I don't see how the word unlimited can be used on a product that isn't. Digiweb was "unlimited" providing i stay within the 40Gb download limit per month but they had it advertised online as what it was.

3. As i said, being unaware of the fair usage condition, i rang up smart friday last to see what was up with my connection. On hold for more than half an hour (on a mobile as i only have the landline for the internet) which cost €14. After moving from 6th, 5th, 4th, 5th, 4th, I finally got through and this is the conversation i had, bear in mind i'm on hold 35-40 mins.

After giving account details etc.
Me : I'm just calling up to see if theres a problem with my connection
Him : No, its on the computer here that your being penalised for exceeding the fair usage limit, it's 170Gb or there abouts.
Me : But i'm on a contract for unlimited broadband? It said so on the website when i ordered.
Him : No it says quote, unlimited. unquote (thats exactly what he said)
Me : Ok whatever, thats grand bye.
Him : Wait sir, would you like me to lift the throttle?

At that point he took my email address and its now tuesday and i still have slow speeds. The next day i got an email alright but that was the "warning" notification that i never received.

To be honest the 170GB i could live with although its not originally what i signed up to, its the way i (and alot of others) have been treated.

Isn't it incredible that someone in Smart or should I say Digiweb cannot perceive that this type of nonsense from the long wait for an answer to the behaviour of the csr is going to drive customers mad?:mad:

What was the urgency in implementing the throttle particularly when they seem to lifting it - albeit eventually - if you ask nicely?

Dioza

The thing is it seems to be only people who ask to be restored are being so and even at that i think it depends how nice you ask.

http://support.smarttelecom.ie/forums/showthread.php?t=3644&page=2

The admins just take them as they come in. I would ring up tomorrow and try to switch to a lower speed package so as not to hit my 170 so soon but i don't fancy spending my last 10 quid credit trying to do so.

the_law

Dioza, try the forums at support.smarttelecom.ie/forums - some people were being reset by asking the admins nicely...

Edit: Dioza, it's clear from your last post that you know the forums exist. I'll shut up now.

Dioza

the_law wrote: »

Dioza, try the forums at support.smarttelecom.ie/forums - some people were being reset by asking the admins nicely...

Edit: Dioza, it's clear from your last post that you know the forums exist. I'll shut up now.

Yup, thanks tho

Fingers crossed I'm on the list and I'll be reset tonight/tomorrow and get back to polluting my head with all sorts of cyber trash :pac:

rsynnott

kudzRS wrote: »

As a member of the "Smart Sales Dept" i know for a fact no body announces the company or refers the company to any customer as "Digiweb Smart", it's plain and simply Smart Telecom???

Given that you're a 'member of the "Smart Sales Dept"', would it not perhaps have been better to reveal your affiliation in previous posts where you talked up Smart and badmouthed the competition?

Dioza

kudzRS wrote: »

Hi hdfan,
please take note of the section of your post i have underlined and made bold... for a start Smart do not say "digiweb-Smart" as Smart is still trading as its own entity...
i believe the exact line you receive is "there are no download limits, subject to fair usage"

As a member of the "Smart Sales Dept" i know for a fact no body announces the company or refers the company to any customer as "Digiweb Smart", it's plain and simply Smart Telecom???

so please get your facts straight before making slanderous remarks!!

Also in nrelation to the last piece i have underlined, please read your terms & conditions section 23, 23.1 & 23.2... this should clarify the situation for you

kudzRS wrote: »

Hi there,

Smart telecom has a package at the moment as u said above 4MB for 40.52 per month. 1:1 contention and "real" no downlolad limits unlike this fair usage crap.... and if u sign up before the end of the month u get the 1st 3 months broadband free

I paid for my first 3 months and we all know the story about the rest of it.

rsynnott

Dioza wrote: »

I paid for my first 3 months and we all know the story about the rest of it.

Do we? I must admit, I idly looked at this guy's posting history because his post here made me think "ooh, what a psycho Smart sales-person! I wonder has he said anything ridiculous in the past?"

*finds crazy Internet people quite entertaining*

Anyway, what happened with the paying for the first three months?

Dioza

I just meant the ""real" no download limits unlike this fair usage crap" which was a massive sales pitch and now its not being implemented but still an ongoing pitch on their site.

Although she (?) posted that a year ago they have a "3 months free" offer for a good while now. Maybe i didn't qualify 'cus i did it online?

Cabaal

Dioza wrote: »

I'm just saying it all adds up. And whatever the average is still doesn't correct the fact that they are still advertising as unlimited.

http://www.smarttelecom.ie/residential_offnet/residential_offnet_compare.aspx

170 GB, no matter how you brake it down or work out averages or daily usage is still not unlimited and should not be described as.

There not the first and last provider do advertise a product as unlimited when it is not, the whole advertising as unlimited is a seperate matter and until the ASAI say its wrong its ok for them to use it.

Lets see providers that say unlimited but have FUP's include (this could be for a unlimited call, txt or data service)
O2 (UK and Ireland)
Meteor
Vodafone
Eircom
Three

In the UK
Sky Broadband
BT Broadband
Orange
etc

Telecom providers have been using the term unlimited for years, its not something new.

I'd imagine they get away with it because what they class as unlimited will not be reached by their average customer and in this case 5GB a day is not an average customers usage

Cabaal

dub45 wrote: »

But why should you or anyone else decide that there is a limit to anyones use?.<SNIP>

dub45, I get where your coming from I really do but in relation to the limitis and restrictions imposed you might want to ask telecom companys why every product they advertise as unlimited is not.

Ok you might get companys like Smart that will not impose their FUP for some time in order to build a customer base but ultimately the FUP existed in the T&C's (as it does for any provider) as the provider has to protect itself from abuse on its network.

Now your likely to say that 5GB a day is not abuse, thing is thats open to debate because when ISP's look at the average usage then 5GB a day is considered a heavy user when compared to the rest of the ISP's customer base.

If you read my post in the FAQ explaining this youll note I don't fully agree with it and things will likely change as larger media becomes available and the average joe uses it but that does not change the fact that Smart like all ISP's has to make money.

You can actually see that in the past 5 years or so ISP's caps in Ireland have greatly increased where as if you even look at the UK you'll see that more ISP's have actually gone from unlimited to capped/FUP'ed but now are starting to offer "add-on" packages to allow users to download more.

Basically if people don't like Smarts decent decision then they should up and leave, the same goes for any ISP where a customer is not happy with the service provided

Wolverine_1999

Cabaal wrote: »

dub45, I get where your coming from I really do but in relation to the limitis and restrictions imposed you might want to ask telecom companys why every product they advertise as unlimited is not.

Ok you might get companys like Smart that will not impose their FUP for some time in order to build a customer base but ultimately the FUP existed in the T&C's (as it does for any provider) as the provider has to protect itself from abuse on its network.

Now your likely to say that 5GB a day is not abuse, thing is thats open to debate because when ISP's look at the average usage then 5GB a day is considered a heavy user when compared to the rest of the ISP's customer base.

If you read my post in the FAQ explaining this youll note I don't fully agree with it and things will likely change as larger media becomes available and the average joe uses it but that does not change the fact that Smart like all ISP's has to make money.

You can actually see that in the past 5 years or so ISP's caps in Ireland have greatly increased where as if you even look at the UK you'll see that more ISP's have actually gone from unlimited to capped/FUP'ed but now are starting to offer "add-on" packages to allow users to download more.

Basically if people don't like Smarts decent decision then they should up and leave, the same goes for any ISP where a customer is not happy with the service provided

I can't agree sorry. These so called "heavy users", which exist with every ISP, and which every ISP only ever has a very small minority of customers who fall under this category (according to ISPs themselves), would basically "make up" for the other 95% of customers who are only using 10% of their monthy usage allowance or "FUP".

Surely an ISP would calculate how much bandwidth they can handle/afford when implementing a "FUP"? Smart seem to have sold their products on the basis of "no limits" which has attracted the highest percentage of "heavy users". If this is the majority of their customer base, obviously they should inform new/existent users that they no longer provide this service. The €8.50 is fair more or less.. however, it's an inconvenience that most users would find deterring.

Ideally, as has been mentioned before, ISPs in Ireland would like us to read e-mail and browse webpages.. but not dare think of downloading any content from the net when clearly, by the prices they charge for the services, we have already paid for most users bandwidth in our area.

Cabaal

Wolverine_1999 wrote: »

I can't agree sorry. These so called "heavy users", which exist with every ISP....<SNIP>

Rather then me retyping stuff all over again have a read of http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=58094826&postcount=11

weisses

Cabaal wrote: »

A child playing call of duty does not hit anywhere near 5GB and the large download of the game as a whole is a once off event.

You can try to justify whatever usage you want but fact remains is that 5GB a day is not normal usage for a average joe residential broadband connection in Ireland or even the UK,

Don't forget that MW2 is based on P2P and if you are the host your screwed

Irish isp's just can't cope with first world online services these days ...Encouraged by an incompetent government who thinks that a wood pellet scheme (money taken from the NBS) is the way forward in this country

and unlimited means unlimited can people please stop defending isp's who have the fup hidden somewhere in section blabla paragraph bla bla .... its misleading at least

lets say 200 gig a month was a lot of usage a few years back so implementing a 200 gig cap somewhere in the fup was a save bet .....

But as the world moves on an Ireland stands still 200 gig a month at present isn't that much anymore and ISP's in Ireland are failing to meet the new requirements/standard imo .

funkyjebus

While what they are doing is legal. Why you would call 170 gb limit unlimited is beyond me. Just say monthy limit of €170 and everyone knows what they are getting into. Sure they say fair usage, but they never tell you waht that is, I even asked (nearly 1 year ago).

Every month I get an email to tell me i'm over the 170gb:eek:, but fair play, they've never done anything about it. Still for their lying, I'll be moving soon. Do upc have a cap or fair usage, didI hear someone say 250gb?