Smart lie to new customers :(

jor el

funkyjebus wrote: »

Do upc have a cap or fair usage, didI hear someone say 250gb?

On the top package, 20/30Mbps, the fair use limit is 250GB. There is another, un-advertised, package, that costs about 80 euro a month, which actually has no limit. If you go over the 250GB, consistently, they'll automatically bump you up to this one.

IrishTonyO

jor el wrote: »

On the top package, 20/30Mbps, the fair use limit is 250GB. There is another, un-advertised, package, that costs about 80 euro a month, which actually has no limit. If you go over the 250GB, consistently, they'll automatically bump you up to this one.

same limit applies to the 10/15Mb package as well

Fuzzy Clam

weisses wrote: »

and unlimited means unlimited can people please stop defending isp's who have the fup hidden somewhere in section blabla paragraph bla bla .... its misleading at least

For as long as I've been on this planet, there have been competitions where you can win, e.g "free shopping for a year" or if you buy a new car, you get free insurance or free petrol for a year. These are always based on "average" use. It doesn't mean you can start stocking up on shopping or petrol all day, every day.
The average internet user here would not come anywhere near their limit. If anybody thinks that they can download 24/7, without reading the T&Cs, deserves to be throttled.

Cabaal

weisses wrote: »

Don't forget that MW2 is based on P2P and if you are the host your screwed

Irish isp's just can't cope with first world online services these days

ISP's in the UK have similar caps to whats in Ireland, do you think they can't manage as well?

...Encouraged by an incompetent government who thinks that a wood pellet scheme (money taken from the NBS) is the way forward in this country

Lets stick to the topic and not drag this into some political thing, its not

and unlimited means unlimited can people please stop defending isp's who have the fup hidden somewhere in section blabla paragraph bla bla .... its misleading at least

The ASAI says its fine and telecom providers have been using the term for years until this changes what they are doing is legal and ok in the eyes of the law.

You know those unlimited free texts your mobile providers likely gives you....they are not unlimited

shamonemofo

well said Cabaal...!

the_law

I think that anything advertised as 'unlimited' should allow any conceivable use.

For example I'm on an unlimited mobile plan with Meteor (I'm self employed and basically live on the phone) and would regularly spend 600-1000 minutes on the phone in any month.

Before I signed up I checked the terms carefully... there is a FUP, it's 45,000 minutes a month. There are only 44,640 minutes in a 31 day month! I'm fine with that, it basically means that if you sleep at any point in the month, you're fine.

There's a 5000 text FUP as well, which is 161 per day, comparably less but still a number that nobody's going to reach unless they are sending huge numbers of group texts daily (which is probably someone advertising something, so fair enough).

stephenc_ie

To break down 170GB:

While it's possible to do this legally, it is difficult. (compared to illegal means)
Also, to do so legally is going to incur some cost (HD movies from iTunes, game purchases on Steam etc.)
In that context, €8.50 seems a reasonable charge for this purpose. (considering the cap is set back to 0 and not just de-throttled)

If I were to hit the 170gig cap, and could justify this legally, I don't think that €8.50 is an exorbitant charge for another 170gig.
(I'm also thankful that it's not just slapped on as an extra charge automatically)

Stephen.

weisses

Cabaal wrote: »

ISP's in the UK have similar caps to whats in Ireland, do you think they can't manage as well?

why always compare to the uk ???

Cabaal wrote: »

Lets stick to the topic and not drag this into some political thing, its not

The approach of Irish government is contributing to the messed up infrastructure here what results in ISP's enforcing their caps because they can't cope with the usage

Cabaal wrote: »

The ASAI says its fine and telecom providers have been using the term for years until this changes what they are doing is legal and ok in the eyes of the law.

You know those unlimited free texts your mobile providers likely gives you....they are not unlimited

All fine and all but the fact that it is law doesn't mean its right .. en could be debated/discussed here

stephenc_ie

weisses wrote: »

why always compare to the uk ???

Comcast (US) - caps at 250GB + does DPI
AT&T - various caps based on package + does DPI
Time Warner/Roadrunner - 40GB caps (with $1 per GB overage charges!!!!)

ISP's all over the world are bringing them in....

MunsterCycling

What is more interesting is that the ASAI think its OK to mislead people! Who in that organisation is the person responsible for this screwed up thinking?

MC

Cabaal

the_law wrote: »

There's a 5000 text FUP as well, which is 161 per day, comparably less but still a number that nobody's going to reach unless they are sending huge numbers of group texts daily (which is probably someone advertising something, so fair enough).

Funny you should mention the txt limit, a few years back when Meteor first launched its offer I remember a user posting on boards.ie saying they got a warning from Meteor.

Turned out they had used more then 5000 txts and they didn't like the fact that it wasn't "unlimited", the majority of the replys to the thread included such replys as "get a life" etc.

weisses

stephenc_ie wrote: »

Comcast (US) - caps at 250GB + does DPI
AT&T - various caps based on package + does DPI
Time Warner/Roadrunner - 40GB caps (with $1 per GB overage charges!!!!)

ISP's all over the world are bringing them in....

government in US is fighting this

Cabaal

weisses wrote: »

why always compare to the uk ???

Its a market I know and is more comparable to Ireland then say the likes of America or Korea

If you really want to pick a comparable country infrastructure wise then I believe Greece is actually pretty on standard to Ireland when it comes to Broadband rollout for home users.

I'm pretty sure you won't find great packages available to home users in greece but I'm open to corerction if you can

The approach of Irish government is contributing to the messed up infrastructure here what results in ISP's enforcing their caps because they can't cope with the usage

This is open to debate, many would blame Eircom for their refusal to offer decent products to customers and to re-sellers

Others would blame the popularity of so called "Mobile Broadband" products.

Others still would blame comreg who have always been toothless regardless of the goverment in power.

Anyway lets get this back on topic, this thread is about smart

chalkitdown

stephenc_ie wrote: »

Comcast (US) - caps at 250GB + does DPI
AT&T - various caps based on package + does DPI
Time Warner/Roadrunner - 40GB caps (with $1 per GB overage charges!!!!)

ISP's all over the world are bringing them in....

The problem that people have with Smart is that they imposed conditions with no warning on people that had already signed up under different conditions. I imagine Americans would be visiting their lawyer if it happened there.

With regard to the $1 per GB 'overage' charge, it can be over $250 per GB here! (mobile broadband)

dub45

It is about time that the dating of Terms and Conditons became mandatory.
Any set of terms and conditions that are on an isps website should be clearly dated. And links to previous ones (with their relevant dates) should be available too. In this way a customer could check what was in force when the contract was taken out. As it is T&C's are changed by the isps apparently as they wish. Some time ago a group of customers managed to to shame UTV into doing this.

Any reputable company should have no problem whatsoever in doing this.

Additionally there is a clear difference between day to day policy and actual T&C's as they are written.

Where an isp makes a significant change in policy then it should be common sense to give customers adequate warning. Irrespective of the actual terms and conditons Smart and their employees encouraged customers to believe that there was no cap and certainly throttling was never an issue. Any group of managers with even the smallest bit of cop on (not loads now just a small bit even) would have realised that such a major change of policy would impact on customers and that the change needed to be handled with a bit of subtlety. It was idiotic of Smart to start throttling customers without notice and then those who ask nicely are restored. What was that meant to prove?

At the moment Eircom don't implement their caps however I would sincerely hope that if they ever decide to change policy that they show a bit of respect towards customers (not to mention a bit of cop on) and give decent notice.

I wonder is there any other industry where cop on towards customers is so consistently badly lacking across the board?:rolleyes:

dub45

MunsterCycling wrote: »

What is more interesting is that the ASAI think its OK to mislead people! Who in that organisation is the person responsible for this screwed up thinking?

MC

This really is the issue. I find it incredible that posters on here can seriously use one company's abuse of the English language to justify another's:rolleyes:

First of all any company using the term 'unlimited' ,while it retains its current meaning in the English language, and imposing a ceiling by whatever means is being dishonest irrespective of industry practise.

Any any regulatory body in any country who allows this travesty as a business practise is a disgrace to the consumer they are supposed to be protecting.

If companies are allowed abuse one word how long will it be before they are allowed abuse a second and third and that ''monthly'' rate we were advised about well now I have decided that means ''weekly'' etc etc.

Definition
unlimited adjective
/ʌnˈlɪm.ɪ.tɪd//-t ̬ɪd/ adj
not limited; having the greatest possible amount, number or level


(Definition of unlimited adjective from the Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary)

Cabaal

dub45 wrote: »

I find it incredible that posters on here can seriously use one company's abuse of the English language to justify another's:rolleyes:

I never said Im using one companys use to justify anothers,
My examples simply show that using the term unlimited is widespread for many many years and even happens outside of ISP's.

So taking issue specifcally with Smart over the use of unlimited is pointless, its a wider issue even outside of the telecoms industry and one to date that the likes of Comreg and the ASAI have no issues with.

If people have a problems thats fair enough but unless they are actively going to lobby an agency to get it reviewed in respect of telecoms companys specifically or made clearer to customers then whatever complaining people do here is pointless in the bigger scheme of things.

People's best hope would for it to be made clearer to customers as again if you compare Ireland to the UK where comreg here as feck all power but OFCOM in the UK have a good bit of power even OFCOM have no real issues with "Unlimited" packages with FUP's attached.

I'd almost bet money that the same people that are complaining here will be complaining 12 months from now about the very same issues with either the same ISP or a different ISP. Will they have actually put work into forming an actual group that might even have a chance (even if its slim) of being recognised to lobby agencys...very very unlikely they will have.

Don't get me wrong I'm not putting down people I'm challenging them to actually get together and make a difference if they feel so strongly about it.

Finally, you can quote the meaning of unlimited till the cows come home but that won't change how its used by companys throughout Ireland and for that matter the world

Cabaal

dub45 wrote: »

It is about time that the dating of Terms and Conditons became mandatory.

I'd agree with this, ISP's should have dated T&C's and archived copys available.

Of course if you signup to an ISP in say 2002 and they change their T&C's in 2005 and they notify you of this change then the 2005 T&C's apply to you not the 2002

Any reputable company should have no problem whatsoever in doing this.

From a company perspective I could see it causing some issues in respect of custoemr querys to the company, customers don't always use all of their gray matter and as such you'll likely get customers refering to older T&C's that don't apply anymore.

Additionally there is a clear difference between day to day policy and actual T&C's as they are written.

There is abit of a yes and no here

Where an isp makes a significant change in policy then it should be common sense to give customers adequate warning. Irrespective of the actual terms and conditons Smart and their employees encouraged customers to believe that there was no cap and certainly throttling was never an issue.

Thing is if the customer agreed to a copy of the T&C's that contained a FUP then how can the user complain if its implemented?

Ok so we give an example where a customer IS notified by the ISP that the FUP they previously agreed to WILL be enforced...the customer doesn't like it?

What do you think the outcome of this should be if the customer is still in contract? imho the customer is still bound by the T&C's THEY agreed to in the first place so they shouldn't be let out of the contract.

HDfan

New smart telecom customer:

Also, i was told it was unlimited...

new customers still think they order unlimited downloads, smart still earns money....

shamonemofo

HDfan wrote: »

New smart telecom customer:





new customers still think they order unlimited downloads, smart still earns money....

Dude you need to drop this unlimited mullarkey...! Every company does it... You could argue the very same with NTL's new Fibre power product... http://www.upc.ie/broadband/

Advertised as "Unlimited" online but if you call them they will tell you it is subjest to a cap or FUP.

Rant over!

weisses

shamonemofo wrote: »

Dude you need to drop this unlimited mullarkey...! Every company does it... You could argue the very same with NTL's new Fibre power product... http://www.upc.ie/broadband/

Advertised as "Unlimited" online but if you call them they will tell you it is subjest to a cap or FUP.

Rant over!

So according to you if enough company's are doing this then its alright ??

If you look at the link its misleading at least .....

Not trying to be the smart ass here .. but where on that site can you see what your download cap is on unlimited i looked @ t&c for upc but couldn't find anything that says 170 gigs or 250 gigs

Section 3: Data Transfer Allowances, Excessive Use and Other Limitations

UPC broadband services are intended for normal recreational or educational use by individuals and families and our pricing and network architecture have been designed accordingly. The Services are strictly for residential use only - commercial use of any kind is prohibited. Customers who use the services more heavily than a normal home user will reduce the performance of the network for other customers.

Your monthly data transfer allowance depends upon which broadband package you have selected. The data transfer allowances for the various packages can be found at www.upc.ie. All monthly data transfer allowances refer to the cumulative amount of data uploaded and downloaded per month, unless otherwise specified in your particular package. For purposes of illustration only, 1 gigabyte downstream of data transfer equates to approximately 200 music tracks, 650 short videos, 10,000 pictures or around 100 large software programmes downloaded.

“Excessive use” of the Service is defined as usage exceeding your monthly data transfer allowance.

If you exceed your monthly data transfer allowance as determined by UPC, in our sole judgment, UPC may take any of the following actions, or any combination thereof:

* Impose a charge of 3 cent per megabyte or part thereof for exceeding your data transfer limit; and/or
* Upgrade your package to a package with a higher data transfer limit with the corresponding higher monthly fee; and/or
* Downgrade your upload and download speed for a period of one month to dial-up speed, with your monthly fee remaining the same; and/or
* Suspend your access to the services for one month, with your monthly fee remaining the same; and/or
* Terminate your account as per the terms of the User Policy and UPC Terms and Conditions.

They want you to go to upc.ie but these t&c are from upc.ie

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

dub45

Yes people have to stand back and stop saying that something is alright because a number of companies are doing it.

The word unlimited has a specific meaning - it is an abuse of the English language to deliberately use it with another meaning.

In this case companies are using it to deceive plain and simple. Even if a million of them are using it in this way it does not justify the practise.

Remember get away with abusing one word now - how many words will be abuse tomorrow next week etc etc.