belgian blue on heifers?

tismesoitis

normally use limousin on heifers then bb from second calf onwards. anyone got any experience using bb on heifers??? also any idea what weanlings are making out of the yard?

vanderbadger

tismesoitis wrote: »

normally use limousin on heifers then bb from second calf onwards. anyone got any experience using bb on heifers??? also any idea what weanlings are making out of the yard?

using an ai blue bull this year called ballyfinn borat (BBQ), according to his icbf blurb he is an easy calver anyway, he might be worth a try

haybob

What kind of heifers, unless they are BB then I'd say you really are putting youself in for hardship stick with the limousin for the heifers

tismesoitis wrote: »

normally use limousin on heifers then bb from second calf onwards. anyone got any experience using bb on heifers??? also any idea what weanlings are making out of the yard?

mossfort

there was a myth one time that belgian blue bulls can be very hard calving but they are no worse than limousins or other breeds.
there are easy calving sires and there are one with a bit more difficulty but a lot depends on the type of cow and how much room she has.
ive had to section a heifer last year who was ai,d to an easy calving limousin bull so she wont be kept. also a lot depends on the feeding they get in the weeks before calving.

tismesoitis

3/4 bred lim heifers the odd simx also. i agree feeding means everything. thought we had it spot on feeding obout 2kgs chopped straw through silage but lost a calf recently hard pull sire of calf was s553[underwriter]. goin to cull d heifer was prob a little narrow. don't no bbq used edj on cows no hassle but would love to hear how is on heifers

Bitten & Hisses

I've used EDJ on heifers without incident. You might need to be there to assist some of them, but I've had ~10 calves from him now and none of the births could be described as difficult.

Waddy

dont use OVO anyway, i had a few difficulties with him, i ve heard that AVD is supposed to be easy calving.

tred

we changed from a charlaois to a limousin bull last year. So far we lost one calf and the last 2 were monsters. Calves are bigger than we had on our Charloais so I think hes going to be moved on this year. Surprised actually.

reilig

tred wrote: »

we changed from a charlaois to a limousin bull last year. So far we lost one calf and the last 2 were monsters. Calves are bigger than we had on our Charloais so I think hes going to be moved on this year. Surprised actually.

I wouldn't actually blame the bull, you first need to look at what you're feeding your incalf cows and how much you are feeding them. The day of adlib feeding cows with good silage is gone if you are hoping to breed continental x cows with a continental bull. You need to be restricting the amount of feed that incalf cows are getting for at least 6 weeks before their calving due date.

It also depends on what sort of cows you have???? What's your pre calving routine???

tred

reilig wrote: »

I wouldn't actually blame the bull, you first need to look at what you're feeding your incalf cows and how much you are feeding them. The day of adlib feeding cows with good silage is gone if you are hoping to breed continental x cows with a continental bull. You need to be restricting the amount of feed that incalf cows are getting for at least 6 weeks before their calving due date.

It also depends on what sort of cows you have???? What's your pre calving routine???

routine is same now as it was with the Charloais. Same cows as well, bar a few young heifers.

reilig

tred wrote: »

routine is same now as it was with the Charloais. Same cows as well, bar a few young heifers.

Well then its time to change your routine for the rest of the cows that have to calve. remember that Limousins will often bring 3 weeks after their due date and calves will get significantly bigger inside the cow in these 3 weeks.
Time to start restricting and cutting out the better quality silage and all meal.

LivInt20

tismesoitis wrote: »

normally use limousin on heifers then bb from second calf onwards. anyone got any experience using bb on heifers??? also any idea what weanlings are making out of the yard?

You shouldn't be using BBs on Heifers. Use an easy calving Lim such as FL22 or REQ.

pakalasa

LivInt20 wrote: »

You shouldn't be using BBs on Heifers. Use an easy calving Lim such as FL22 or REQ.

Exactly, the above 2 bulls in NCBC are very easy calving.
Saying a certain breed is either hard or easy calving is crazy. There's as much variation within the breed as across the breed.

FL22 for example is 3.19% which is in the top 5% of the breed, SIX (Siam) on the other hand is 9.84% with is in the bottom 3% of the Limousin breed.
I used SIX this year on one cow, calved a bull, no problem. She's a big boney shorthorn and I was hoping for a heifer. Great calf though;).

ellewood

tred wrote: »

we changed from a charlaois to a limousin bull last year. So far we lost one calf and the last 2 were monsters. Calves are bigger than we had on our Charloais so I think hes going to be moved on this year. Surprised actually.

easy calving charolais ie charolais bulls with a calving difficulty figure of less than 10%, see icbf, hwn, pco, pte sap, all of which are still in top 10% for weaning and beef index are milky and arnt any where as impossible to handel and those fecking limos. ive used all the above on cows and heffirs and calved nearly 50 over past 2 yrs without any difficulty in fact nearly all of em calved on their own with smashing calves. also you will get a lot better price for em when selling em as stores past few weeks good r grade charolais bullocks making over E2/kg - id rather be getting it than paying it tho.

LivInt20

ellewood wrote: »

easy calving charolais ie charolais bulls with a calving difficulty figure of less than 10%, see icbf, hwn, pco, pte sap, all of which are still in top 10% for weaning and beef index are milky and arnt any where as impossible to handel and those fecking limos. ive used all the above on cows and heffirs and calved nearly 50 over past 2 yrs without any difficulty in fact nearly all of em calved on their own with smashing calves. also you will get a lot better price for em when selling em as stores past few weeks good r grade charolais bullocks making over E2/kg - id rather be getting it than paying it tho.

I disagree that Lim are difficult to handle. It's a bit of a myth built up about Lim. If they are handled correctly they are as easy to deal with as any other cattle.

LivInt20

pakalasa wrote: »

Exactly, the above 2 bulls in NCBC are very easy calving.
Saying a certain breed is either hard or easy calving is crazy. There's as much variation within the breed as across the breed.

FL22 for example is 3.19% which is in the top 5% of the breed, SIX (Siam) on the other hand is 9.84% with is in the bottom 3% of the Limousin breed.
I used SIX this year on one cow, calved a bull, no problem. She's a big boney shorthorn and I was hoping for a heifer. Great calf though;).

Be careful using SIX. Excellent calves but a very hard calver. Make sure to use a big cow with a big frame.

wiggy123

edj i think for heifers is best bb out there!

ellewood

well i have both pedegree chaolais and limos the get the exact same treatment charolasi very docile and easy to manage limos not i even had em in top 1% for docility from imperial and still were hard to manage also neighbour has dairy both aa and limo calves exact same treatment, feed handling ect aa quiet limo stone mad and limo bull there off is as quiet as a lamb but the calves are bonkers so make what you will from that..

going back to bb ive used ejd on cows and hffrs as long as they ere good framey animals-a good square r grade hfr will calf fine to him

Indubitable

LivInt20 wrote: »

Be careful using SIX. Excellent calves but a very hard calver. Make sure to use a big cow with a big frame.

+1

I use him quite a bit and he brings excellent calves out of big framed cows but he is hard calved for a limousin

I often find that many farmers believe that BB bulls are hard calved. I believe it is just the cows that are hard calved, not the bulls. I had a BB bull that i just got rid of and he is was fairly easy calved whereas his daughters are not. Its handy that the calves have small bones.

wiggy123

is it not 50/50 when it comes to the calve..
how the cow is bred+fed, and then the bulls figures..
people blame the sire to easily

bogman_bass

LivInt20 wrote: »

You shouldn't be using BBs on Heifers. Use an easy calving Lim such as FL22 or REQ.

+1

pakalasa

LivInt20 wrote: »

Be careful using SIX. Excellent calves but a very hard calver. Make sure to use a big cow with a big frame.

Agree fully. The point I was making was that here was a Limousin bull yet very hard calving.

The reason I used him was I was looking for a replacment heifer. SIX , according to his figures produces very quiet calves, good Milk & fertility figures and most of all, his daughters calve very easy.

To me it is worth using a hard calving bull (on mature cows) if his daughters calve easy. That way I can use BB and Charolais bulls on them with no worries about calving.

bogman_bass

wiggy123 wrote: »

edj i think for heifers is best bb out there!

EDJ was a fantastic bull. we used him a lot but the bad news is that he is dead and the straws are gone. maybe you'll be lucky and your technician will still have some in his pot.
ETB or AVD seem to be giving small calves but for heifers FL22 or REQ (very easy calving limos) would be a much safer option

lifesupport

tismesoitis wrote: »

normally use limousin on heifers then bb from second calf onwards. anyone got any experience using bb on heifers??? also any idea what weanlings are making out of the yard?

there are very hard on a heifer. limousin is the best for a first calf from a heifer

leg wax

had 5 heifers calve this weekto bb and no trouble, and they are small heifers.

monaghan man

Im a young farmer starting off and i bought two heifers im going to bull in febuary, there both out of british fresian cows and sired by EDJ and ETB.. ETB heifer is small but muscular and the EDJ heifer is a growty heifer..

What bulls would you suggest I use on these two heifers in febuary?

bogman_bass

we have similar type cows at home and have had nice calves from REQ (easy calving Limosine)
straws of him are scarce so something like FL22 would be a good replacement.
dont put a blue on them in the first year as there is a fair chance you will have to cut the calf out if you do.
while the heifers may not be terribly muscled they carry the muscling gene so will put the muscle on the calf.
Go for a bull with calving ease and growth in his figures

LivInt20

monaghan man wrote: »

Im a young farmer starting off and i bought two heifers im going to bull in febuary, there both out of british fresian cows and sired by EDJ and ETB.. ETB heifer is small but muscular and the EDJ heifer is a growty heifer..

What bulls would you suggest I use on these two heifers in febuary?

FL22 easy calving and 5 star bull

http://www.icbf.com/taurus/bull_search/index.php?search_type=num&search=fl22

leg wax

monaghan man wrote: »

Im a young farmer starting off and i bought two heifers im going to bull in febuary, there both out of british fresian cows and sired by EDJ and ETB.. ETB heifer is small but muscular and the EDJ heifer is a growty heifer..

What bulls would you suggest I use on these two heifers in febuary?

i am going to throw my hat in the ring and suggest wiveton indiana code wti a blondebull with eurogene and since everone else is at it,he is proven calving ease sire for suckler heifers.

reilig

leg wax wrote: »

i am going to throw my hat in the ring and suggest wiveton indiana code wti a blondebull with eurogene and since everone else is at it,he is proven calving ease sire for suckler heifers.

I used him on a couple of heifers this year. Will let ye know the result

leg wax

reilig wrote: »

I used him on a couple of heifers this year. Will let ye know the result

great what did you put him on.

reilig

leg wax wrote: »

great what did you put him on.

Black Limousin heifers - 2 year olds.

pakalasa

There's a coincidence, today I used FL22 today on a Hillcrest King (HKG) heifer.
You cant beat going with the very easy calving bulls in the first year.

vanderbadger

pakalasa wrote: »

There's a coincidence, today I used FL22 today on a Hillcrest King (HKG) heifer.
You cant beat going with the very easy calving bulls in the first year.

interesting, would you still be bulling away this time of year, have a few late calvers but havent put them back in calf, will hold off till Dec/Jan maybe

pakalasa

This was a young heifer, a yearling since about March. She' big enough, around the 475 Kg, at a guess. I've 4 to do. I found that if I calved them down at 2 years, then they are usually late, say late april or so, they then slip back about 6 wks to 2 months. They are forever late then after that.
This way they'll calve around end june next year. Then August, the year after. I can then let them slip back to Jan, if i like then, the ideal month.

I could calve them down at 3 yrs, but what if they dont go in calve next year. I've kept them for 2 full years.

Anybody here manage to calve them down at 2 yrs and keep them tight on calving dates.

Tora Bora

I must be just too set in my ways or something, but giving Belgian blue to a heifer would be beyond the pale for me. Easy lim or Angus. Surely waiting one year to go for the blue isn't too much to ask.

blue5000

Calving at two yr old to angus, but 2nd calvers aren't calving again within 12 months. I'm going to try weaning 1st calvers earlier to give them a longer dry period.

Has anybody looked at the figures to see how many heifers put to the bull at 16 months are still there as 4 year olds, compared with bulling heifers to calve at 3 yr olds? I hope I'm making this clear enough.

leg wax

Tora Bora wrote: »

I must be just too set in my ways or something, but giving Belgian blue to a heifer would be beyond the pale for me. Easy lim or Angus. Surely waiting one year to go for the blue isn't too much to ask.

had 2 heifers calved 10 days ago to the blue bull sfl ,1 came backwards ,both calves are smaller than a angus and worth less than a angus at the moment, all blues are not big and give trouble.

reilig

leg wax wrote: »

had 2 heifers calved 10 days ago to the blue bull sfl ,1 came backwards ,both calves are smaller than a angus and worth less than a angus at the moment, all blues are not big and give trouble.

Yea, SFL is a great easy calving bull. I got a lot of calves off him last year and all my black cows are in calf to him this year. I never had to put ropes on one of his calves last year. Most of the calves came red and white rather than the usual blue colour. I have seen a number of his red and white calves win at local shows too - especially the heifer classes. There are few AI Chaorlais bulls as easy calving as SFL.

monaghan man

bogman_bass wrote: »

we have similar type cows at home and have had nice calves from REQ (easy calving Limosine)
straws of him are scarce so something like FL22 would be a good replacement.
dont put a blue on them in the first year as there is a fair chance you will have to cut the calf out if you do.
while the heifers may not be terribly muscled they carry the muscling gene so will put the muscle on the calf.
Go for a bull with calving ease and growth in his figures

Thanks very much, thats a great help.. I heard blues were hard ca;lvers so i just needed a bit of understanding on it.. I also have two smashing simmental heifers, there pure bred but not registerd, i have two straws ordered from Banwy T-Rex, hes suppose to be ok for heifers?

monaghan man

leg wax wrote: »

i am going to throw my hat in the ring and suggest wiveton indiana code wti a blondebull with eurogene and since everone else is at it,he is proven calving ease sire for suckler heifers.

I just checked him up there on the eurogene catelouge, seems to be easy calving.. i think i might go for FL22 for the first year, seems the safe bet.. i seen blondes cross to blues, nice animals, whay bulls would you suggest for second calvers?

leg wax

monaghan man wrote: »

I just checked him up there on the eurogene catelouge, seems to be easy calving.. i think i might go for FL22 for the first year, seems the safe bet.. i seen blondes cross to blues, nice animals, whay bulls would you suggest for second calvers?

if its the 2 heifers that you are talking about, i would wait and see how they get on with the first calf and go from there.it all depends what you are aiming for with their calves.put a blue on them you run the risk of trouble, the calf might be small until you come to the hips,i have a edj cow which i bought at castleisland weanling show back in 2005 this heifer was the champ and cost 1500 euros she never grew to be a big cow shes very wide and this year she calved on here own in the cubicles to the blue stockbull shes very wide inside,this year shes in calf to rocky the lim,the parthenaise is a cross i am going to try on her and thats where i would send you for the second calf,but as i said before wait and see how she gets on with fl22:mad:, i have a blonde heifer that i bought in tuam in june/july springing now and is in calf to fl22, he seems to be the latest craze.

Bigbird1

Leg wax wat is dat EDJ cow breeding like has she milk ect???
Rocky should cross well if she is not too small

leg wax

Bigbird1 wrote: »

Leg wax wat is dat EDJ cow breeding like has she milk ect???
Rocky should cross well if she is not too small

shes had 2 blonde bulls which were both e grade and had plenty of growth and a blue heifer this year e grade as well.milk not be flowing, i dont know any more about her breeding anyone that see her think shes a pedigree

Bigbird1

leg wax wrote: »

shes had 2 blonde bulls which were both e grade and had plenty of growth and a blue heifer this year e grade as well.milk not be flowing, i dont know any more about her breeding anyone that see her think shes a pedigree

Shes a good cow so when shes breeding like that,does she calve naturaly??
Its hard find cows that have the width to calve and produce E grade/show type stock.would you source many replacements through weanling sales??

leg wax

Bigbird1 wrote: »

Shes a good cow so when shes breeding like that,does she calve naturaly??
Its hard find cows that have the width to calve and produce E grade/show type stock.would you source many replacements through weanling sales??

YES HAS THE CALF NATURALY HAD BLUE HEIFER IN CUBICALS THIS YEAR ON HER OWN:o.WHEN I WAS IN MILK I HAD A LOVE OF COMMERCIALS AND WENT DOWN TO CASTLEISLAND MART EVERY YEAR FOR THE SHOW, BOUGHT 3 HEIFERS OVERALL .NO I DONT SOURCE MY REPLACEMENTS AS WEANLINGS ITS TO EXSPENCIVE AND YOU ARE WAITING 3YEARS TO GET MONEY BACK OUT OF THEM, I SOLD BLONDE HEIFERS AT 8 MONTHS THIS YEAR FOR 800 EURO YOU CAN BUY A RED LIM OR PED LIM ABOUT TO CALF FOR 1200-1600 AND GET MONEY BACK OUT OF HER NEXT YEAR.

LivInt20

tismesoitis wrote: »

normally use limousin on heifers then bb from second calf onwards. anyone got any experience using bb on heifers??? also any idea what weanlings are making out of the yard?

Anyone any experience of using Blonde d’Aquitaine Sires on their Suckler Herd.

What are the advantages/disadvantages?

I see the Teagasc Grange herd "DERRYPATRICK HERD" used Blonde bulls on heifers last year and again this year.

Is a Blonde Bull the way to go for Heifers?

What are Blonde weanlings like for selling in the mart?

Are Blonde Bulls suitable for use on Blue Heifers, or would there be too much muscle involved and therefore difficult calving?

pakalasa

I know someone who runs a blonde bull with Saler cows. Weanlings were poor enough, I thought. This bull is exceptionall muscalar but calves not so. A charolais bull before him brought far better weanlings.
If using blonde bulls, I think you'd need some bit of muscle on the cow side of things, either LIM or BB.

vanderbadger

seemed to be a big buzz about salers a few years back, would i be right in saying this trend seems to have passed again?

Dozer1

Round here anyway the Saler never really took off, a guy had 4 Saler weanling heifers at the mart their on Saturday, lovely and quiet in the pen, they went nuts when it came to going into to the ring though. As regards selling price the made as much as the few hereford heifers that were there aswell. I guess most people prefer to go with the tried and trusted hereford suckler cow over them anyway

pakalasa

I think that Salers will become popular again when the breed improoves that bit more. In the same way that the Limousin did.
They seem to lack that bit of milk and they're not as easy calving as led to believe. Limousin cows calve easier, according to ICBF, they do anyway.
They're an ideal cross though with limousins. You wont get crazy color changes and you gain from hybrid vigour.
I have a few myself, weanlings, but I'd be slow to keep tham as cows. I dont think they'd have the milk and they're lacking in muscle too.