Dublin Bus single deckers

Shmee

Just realised a while ago that DB dont seem to be updating there single deck fleet these days when the double deck fleet is constantly being updated with new modern buses ... so, do they just not need em anymore?

Victor

They seem to be standarising the fleet. While there are sub-models, you will notice that most of them have common chassis, engine, etc.

The cost of running a double decker is only marginally more than a single decker, not double.

Cookie_Monster

yeah but there are some routes where DD are too big or just unsuitable (headroom and clearance of trees etc). the 59 and 185 come to mind as routes that will never justify the extra space of a DD.

Surely standardised SD could be bought with similar chassis engines to DD anyway?

neilthefunkeone

They take up roughly the same amount of road space so why not have it.. Even if its not full or near full all the time they have to be prepared if there was a sudden rise in passengers..

stop

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

yeah but there are some routes where DD are too big or just unsuitable. the 59 and 185 come to mind as routes that will never justify the extra space of a DD.

Surely standardised SD could be bought with similar chassis engines to DD anyway?

Yeah but putting the only size suitable & currently available single deckers (the WV) on the 185 would likely lead to flaming remains rolling back towards Enniskerry!

Cookie_Monster

stop wrote: »

Yeah but putting the only size suitable & currently available single deckers (the WV) on the 185 would likely lead to flaming remains rolling back towards Enniskerry!

:D:D

popebenny16

BAC have had a policy of not bringing in single deckers for a good few years now (in fact i think the wright bodied buses were the last ones) because of the desire to have longer routes serves at high frequency by high capacity double deckers using tri axles if needed.

back in the early 90's the policy was a doughnut shaped one - short routes and those which crossed the city but within a small area - would get anything form mercedes mini's to full sized DAF bodied single deckers. anything outside got Double Decks.

with a small alnalgamation of routes (eg, the 83 and the 34) they got rid of single deck routes and replaced them with Double Decks. Today there are few single deck routes left and those which are (the 151 and thre 121 come to mind) are freqeently augmented by doubles.

So its policy. Actually, i dont think any of the withdrawn buses last year were singles, think they were all doubledeck.

trad

Why wouldn't they be getting all expensive double deckers when they get them for nothing. If they had to buy them out of profits (some chance) like every other bus operator I'd like to see what they would be using.

popebenny16

trad wrote: »

Why wouldn't they be getting all expensive double deckers when they get them for nothing. If they had to buy them out of profits (some chance) like every other bus operator I'd like to see what they would be using.

a double decker is not that more expensive than a single decker. no other bus operator would run a network like BAC anyway, you'd get 100 operators all trying the 46a and sod all else

trad

popebenny16 wrote: »

a double decker is not that more expensive than a single decker. no other bus operator would run a network like BAC anyway, you'd get 100 operators all trying the 46a and sod all else

If you gave private operators 1,000 free double deckers costing €300,000 each and then give them an additional €60m+ per annum I sure they would make a better job of it.

L1011

trad wrote: »

If you gave private operators 1,000 free double deckers costing €300,000 each and then give them an additional €60m+ per annum I sure they would make a better job of it.

You appear to have missed the point a little...


Private operators appear very uninterested in PSO contracts (the onces for which you get cash and buses) due to the fact they're very difficult to make money on. However, you'd get everyone with a DOEable bus trying to get a shot at the 46A licence...

L1011

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Surely standardised SD could be bought with similar chassis engines to DD anyway?

Some bus chassis are available with single or double deck body options... but DB are very set with Volvo units and Volvo appear to deliniate between single and double decker chassis. Theres only 11 buses on the fleet with a non-Volvo chassis!

KevR

popebenny16 wrote: »

a double decker is not that more expensive than a single decker. no other bus operator would run a network like BAC anyway, you'd get 100 operators all trying the 46a and sod all else

Anyone know what sort of price difference we would be talking about?

TirEoghain

MYOB wrote: »

Some bus chassis are available with single or double deck body options... but DB are very set with Volvo units and Volvo appear to deliniate between single and double decker chassis. Theres only 11 buses on the fleet with a non-Volvo chassis!

I'm trying to remember what the 11 buses are?

I know there are 9 x DTs (Alexander ALX400 bodied Dennis Trident)

What's the rest? I thought there would have been more than 2 others, as I'd imagine there are more than that?

WH1 (Hybrid bus)
RH31 & D451 (Ghost buses)
A few ME class (Nite Link ticket buses)
A few RH (Open top city tours)
Are there any RH driver trainers?

Victor

These pages give a summary of the fleet http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/About-Us/Dublin-Bus-Fleet/

TirEoghain

That's not quite accurate is one of the DT's went on fire a few years back, and I don't believe it was ever returned to service. Can't remember which one it was though.

Suppose the most of the rest I am talking about are in the ancilliary fleet.

L1011

TirEoghain wrote: »

I'm trying to remember what the 11 buses are?

I know there are 9 x DTs (Alexander ALX400 bodied Dennis Trident)

What's the rest? I thought there would have been more than 2 others, as I'd imagine there are more than that?

WH1 (Hybrid bus)
RH31 & D451 (Ghost buses)
A few ME class (Nite Link ticket buses)
A few RH (Open top city tours)
Are there any RH driver trainers?

I was going off ten DTs and the single WVH, forgot about the ticket buses and the ghost bus etc. The RH's have basically the same chassis as the RVs despite being "Leyland" though...

Theres also other "departmental" vehicles - tree cutters and the like. But the daily passenger fleet has only ten non-Volvo's if one of the DTs is dead.

TirEoghain

Hard to believe how much things have changed since 1995

The only Volvos in the fleet were the RA class (All by now are withdrawn from regular passenger service)

Single deckers back then were;
Various KCs, AD1-70 & P1-40 classes, with VA1-10 and VL1-6 to be delivered over the next two years.

Also a multitude of minibuses; MA, MB, ME, ML, MW & W classes.

Zoney

I've always found it odd that Dublin Bus seem to focus so much on double deckers, despite having routes for which single deckers would be sufficient, and at the same time, Bus Éireann in Cork and Limerick have avoided double deckers despite their use there in the past. They could use them on the busier routes where buses can be absolutely rammed at peak times (packed right up to the front window - people left at stops too to wait ages due to large gaps in service caused by traffic) and fairly full (some standing) even off-peak.

It seems silly with Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann under public ownership still that they can't do common procurement (despite independent operation which probably is beneficial in terms of regional focus) and that way BÉ could more easily get a handful of double deckers and Dublin Bus a handful of single deckers.

Ham'nd'egger

Zoney wrote: »

I've always found it odd that Dublin Bus seem to focus so much on double deckers, despite having routes for which single deckers would be sufficient, and at the same time, Bus Éireann in Cork and Limerick have avoided double deckers despite their use there in the past. They could use them on the busier routes where buses can be absolutely rammed at peak times (packed right up to the front window - people left at stops too to wait ages due to large gaps in service caused by traffic) and fairly full (some standing) even off-peak.

It seems silly with Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann under public ownership still that they can't do common procurement (despite independent operation which probably is beneficial in terms of regional focus) and that way BÉ could more easily get a handful of double deckers and Dublin Bus a handful of single deckers.

It is the nature of the routes and duties undertaken by the fleet that dictates what buses they buy. Dublin Bus has a need for larger buses whereas certainly Galway, Waterford and Limerick don't. Cork has had double deckers in the past but the overall experience over the years by both drivers and inspectors who run the day to day network there has been towards single deckers for practical reasons.

Zoney

Ham'nd'egger:
Limerick also had double deckers until the early 90s and I would suggest you don't know what you are talking about if you suggest that double deckers would not be needed in Limerick. Despite a 10 mins frequency and a bus lane along the outer part of the journey, the bus service is still insufficient on the Raheen service, and is often overcrowded on the Castletroy service also (UL campus is over 10,000 served by a single bus service to the city centre and near the bus/railway station, that also serves the suburb generally).

Ham'nd'egger

Zoney wrote: »

Ham'nd'egger:
Limerick also had double deckers until the early 90s and I would suggest you don't know what you are talking about if you suggest that double deckers would not be needed in Limerick. Despite a 10 mins frequency and a bus lane along the outer part of the journey, the bus service is still insufficient on the Raheen service, and is often overcrowded on the Castletroy service also (UL campus is over 10,000 served by a single bus service to the city centre and near the bus/railway station, that also serves the suburb generally).

I never said Limerick never had any double deckers in the past. What I did however say was that fleets are generally procured to meet overall trends and needs on the ground as distinct from buying on impulse a la Mary O'Rourke and the AW Class and it's ensuing service headache

You refer to UL and overcrowding. I don't know Limerick as a city but colleges can be awkward to service sufficiently due to student movements being somewhat unpredictable time wise. UCD has a similar issue where route 3 and 10's are overcrowded at odd times and empty minutes later. Ordering a fleet to cater solely for one route has it's pitfalls and tends to be done today on physical factors (low bridges, steep climbs, etc)

Cookie_Monster

What issues were caused by the AW?


I acknowledge they are unsuitable on some routes but nearly every city in Europe uses them over DD, why not here?

Ham'nd'egger

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

What issues were caused by the AW?


I acknowledge they are unsuitable on some routes but nearly every city in Europe uses them over DD, why not here?

The buses were thrust upon Dublin Bus so suitable routes were not identified for them prior to them being placed into the operating fleet along with the requisite staff training to deal with the new models. There also wasn't suitable service facilities for them until Harristown garage opened so even routine service checks took them off the road for longer periods than other fleet models.

Heart

IIRC, DT9 went on fire, but was returned to service.

H

ardmacha

but colleges can be awkward to service sufficiently due to student movements being somewhat unpredictable time wise.

What's unpredictable. Students move according to lecture timetables, exams and the like. Perhaps you mean that nobody bothers to coordinate with these things, which is not quite the same.

Zoney

Ham'nd'egger - fair enough. There's no doubt Castletroy route is awkward as apart from the issue you raise (variable loadings) the road network in the city is abominable, and there is still no progress on a bus lane in the city area. Plus the biggest troublespot, Parkway-TippRoad (Childers Road) is now shopping mania as well as remaining a major route.

Cookie Monster:
Afaik they also don't suit the archaic ticket enforcement/dispensing used on Irish buses, so loading/unloading can't be speeded up by using the rear doors. Of course this is presumably an issue for double deckers to some extent also (although the long length of Dublin Bus routes suits as long distance users can use upstairs without worrying about congestion from short-hop commuters downstairs- or at least that was my experience a few years back).

Ordinary length buses here, nevermind longer ones, also have enough trouble pulling into stops due to poor road layout and ignorant people parking before/after/in bus bays, as well as ignorant motorists not letting the buses out again (some bus drivers as a result don't bother to pull in to the stop - not acceptable either but nevertheless in response to those problems).

I would think that if things were organised properly, there shouldn't be an issue with "bendy buses" but they didn't go down well even in London, which despite some problems, is well organised compared to here. They did have an issue with some buses going on fire - not sure what that was about? Misfortunate failures, or maybe it was related to the maintanance issue hamndegger mentioned?

Don't know whatever came of Bus Éireann's trial runs of the purple monster. Seemingly nothing.

markpb

Hamndegger wrote: »

The buses were thrust upon Dublin Bus so suitable routes were not identified for them prior to them being placed into the operating fleet

Then DB proceeded to run them on totally unsuitable routes while pretending they were double deckers and forcing people to maneuver all the way from the back of the bus, past the doors, to the front of the bus to alight.

God forbid I'd defend Mary O'Rourke but in this instance she was right. DB were intent on maximising dwell times at all their bus stops by exterminating the dreaded middle door! Her mistake was not going far enough and ordering triple-door arctics and then making AGS, DCC and DB find a way to make them work like they do in other cities.

Ham'nd'egger

ardmacha wrote: »

What's unpredictable. Students move according to lecture timetables, exams and the like. Perhaps you mean that nobody bothers to coordinate with these things, which is not quite the same.

Not exactly, schools move to a practical set timetable; ie they are generally in before 9 and out after 3PM.

3rd level and PLC students can have anything from a class timetable from 2 hours to 30 a week along with breaks, work experience breaks, mid terms, exams, evenings, research, Saturdays etc etc. Even remembering back to my college days, no two days had the same break out time and I had three different starting times to work two. In short, it's impossible to expect a bus company to get a timetable right with so many variables to allow for.

devnull

Hamndegger wrote: »

The buses were thrust upon Dublin Bus so suitable routes were not identified for them prior to them being placed into the operating fleet along with the requisite staff training to deal with the new models. There also wasn't suitable service facilities for them until Harristown garage opened so even routine service checks took them off the road for longer periods than other fleet models.

They are very useful on the 4's in the morning. Anyone who uses the route between O'Connell Bridge and Trinity College to Ballsbridge and Blackrock and vice versa in the evening will tell you without the AW's during peak they would be waiting a lot longer, it's normal to see about 150 on a bus, yes it can be uncomfortable with that many standing but it's much better to be cramped with 150 people on than see a double decker with 90 people on go past full.

When they eventually do replace them they will either have to increase the timetable on both the 4 and the 7 in peak or use triaxles in peak if no more bendys are coming because else you could be waiting ages for a bus.

Heart wrote: »

IIRC, DT9 went on fire, but was returned to service.

Spot on.

Ham'nd'egger

markpb wrote: »

Then DB proceeded to run them on totally unsuitable routes while pretending they were double deckers and forcing people to maneuver all the way from the back of the bus, past the doors, to the front of the bus to alight.

God forbid I'd defend Mary O'Rourke but in this instance she was right. DB were intent on maximising dwell times at all their bus stops by exterminating the dreaded middle door! Her mistake was not going far enough and ordering triple-door arctics and then making AGS, DCC and DB find a way to make them work like they do in other cities.

There is a very good reason why they were on "unsuitable routes"; there was few suitable routes to cope with them safely. Given their length and design they cannot just be operated on any route without some issues coming into play. Dublin Bus went with Alexander ALX 400's from 2000 onwards and had turned down flexi buses in the past given their general unsuitability in operation. In the long run, the ALX 400 has more than proven itself as a quality buy.

The middle door argument has been long done here but it is almost universally accepted that until such time as our city fathers provide safe bus stops for buses to use, the middle door will be consigned to history in Dublin; I am sure KC61, Sickcert, Spareman, Aquavid and Alek can fill you on how fraught drivers find this side of bus driving in the city.

markpb

Hamndegger wrote: »

I am sure KC61, Sickcert, Spareman, Aquavid and Alek can fill you on how fraught drivers find this side of bus driving in the city.

I'm well aware I'm just annoyed that we seem to have given up on this very central issue. Having buses sitting at the kerb will 94 people file past each other is ridiculous and puts huge delays on the service.

Ham'nd'egger

devnull wrote: »

They are very useful on the 4's in the morning. Anyone who uses the route between O'Connell Bridge and Trinity College to Ballsbridge and Blackrock and vice versa in the evening will tell you without the AW's during peak they would be waiting a lot longer, it's normal to see about 150 on a bus, yes it can be uncomfortable with that many standing but it's much better to be cramped with 150 people on than see a double decker with 90 people on go past full.

When they eventually do replace them they will either have to increase the timetable on both the 4 and the 7 in peak or use triaxles in peak if no more bendys are coming because else you could be waiting ages for a bus.

As I recall, the 4/4A route was planned with them in mind to try and get some value out of them.

TirEoghain

Heart wrote: »

IIRC, DT9 went on fire, but was returned to service.

H

My apologies.

I just checked a more reliable fleet listing of Dublin bus, and all 10 DTs are indeed in service @ Harristown.

Taken from www.garaiste.com, You need to be an existing member to be able to access the link, so I've posted the listing below.

Updated to 12th January 2010:

Garages listed in alphabetical order.

CLONTARF:
========
AV34 - 44, 61 - 68, 93 - 97, 106, 107, 212, 229 - 244, 283 - 287, 344 - 346, 416, 417.
RV514, 541, 615, 632, 633, 634.
EV9 - 22, 75 - 89.


CONYNGHAM ROAD:
==============

AV98 - 103, 225 - 227, 288 - 298, 351 - 362, 399 - 415.
AX517 - 525, 602 - 605.
EV51 - 64.
RV469, 517, 520, 532, 590 - 595, 635.


DONNYBROOK:
=============

AV69 - 92, 131 - 138, 147 - 152, 197 - 203, 256 - 265, 321 - 330, 347 - 350, 387 - 398.
AX449 - 468, 526 - 545, 606 - 619, 638 - 648.
EV23 - 36, 90 - 100.
RV542, 543, 567, 568, 569, 575 - 580 - 586, 596 - 599, 610.
VT1 - 20.
WV21, 41 - 46.


HARRISTOWN:
============

AV54 - 60, 108, 153 - 168, 173, 174, 213 - 223, 274 - 282, 333 - 343, 377 - 380, 447, 448.
AX496 - 516, 546 - 548, 620 - 625.
AW1 - 20.
DT1 - 10.
EV37 - 50, 65 - 74.
RV544 - 546, 561 - 566, 570 - 574, 587 - 589, 617, 618, 620 - 626, 628 - 631.
VG12 - 33.


PHIBSBORO:
==========

AV25 - 31, 33, 45 - 53, 139 - 146, 169 - 171, 175, 177, 180 - 196, 224, 299 - 318, 363 - 376, 381, 382, 430 - 446.
AX550 - 601.
RV612, 613, 636 - 640.
VG1 - 11.
VT21 - 70.

Tours: RH40, 66, 67, 86, 87, 130, 154, 156, RA216 - 219, 246, 247, 249 - 251, 260, AV22 - 24, AV172, 176, 179.


RINGSEND:
=========

AV1 - 21, 104, 105, 204 - 211, 245 - 255, 319, 320, AV383 - 386.
AX469 - 495.
EV1 - 8.
RV448, 470 - 476, 478, 479, 503, 527 - 531, 534, 535, 537, 600 - 609.
WV47 - 52.


SUMMERHILL:
=========

AV109 - 115, 119 - 130, 228, 266 - 273, 331, 332, 418 - 429.
AX549, 626 - 637.
RV538 - 540, 547 - 560, 619.
WV22 - 40.
VG34 -50.
WH1.

Driving School:

Donnybrook:
RA177
Summerhill:
RA181
Conyngham Road:
RA180
Clontarf:
RA196
Harristown:
RA197 & RA198

RH140, 141 & 141, RA176, 178 & 179 off service pending permanent withdrawal.
RH32 withdrawn

---

Tree Lopper:
RH23

Uniform Bus
RH52

The 'US' Bus (Donnybrook Garage):
VL1

Buses in new Tour Livery:
RH40 (City Tour)
RH66 (City Tour)
RH67 (City Tour)
RH86 (City Tour)
RH87 (City Tour)
RH130 (City Tour)
RH154 (City Tour)
RH156 (City Tour)
RA216 (City Tour)
RA217 (City Tour)
RA218 (City Tour)
RA219 (City Tour)
RA246 (City Tour)
RA247 (City Tour)
RA249 (City Tour)
RA250 (City Tour)
RA251 (City Tour)
RA260 (City Tour)
AV22 (City Tour)
AV23 (City Tour)
AV24 (City Tour)
AV172 (City Tour)
AV176 (City Tour)
AV179 (City Tour)
AV398 (Coastal Tours)
AX542 (Coastal Tours)
AX543 (Coastal Tours)

Buses in Ghost Bus Livery:
DF450 & RH31

Buses in Wedding Bus Livery:
AV418 - Summerhill
AV419 - Summerhill
AV447 - Harristown
AV448 - Harristown
AV494 - Ringsend
AX545 - Donnybrook
EV64 - Conyngham Road
EV88 - Clontarf
EV89 - Clontarf
VG9 - Phibsboro
VG10 - Phibsboro

Withdrawn:
AV 32 (long-term)

WV9 (Fire damage)
WV10 (Fire damage)
WV11 (Fire damage)
AV178 (Fire damage)

Cookie_Monster

TirEoghain wrote: »

Uniform Bus
RH52

The 'US' Bus (Donnybrook Garage):
VL1

What are those two?

DT9 did suffer fire damage but was repaired and is back in service, I've seen it myself. Has an odd looking reg plate on the back and I believe the rear route display doesn't work properly. It also has no Dublin Bus logo on the back. (EDIT: Actually it does, was confusing it with AV242)

Nobody's mentioned the 123, that's one route that could seriously do without WVs. A lot of the time they're completely full by the time they reach Ballybough! They also use RVs on the route but I think I've only ever seen one ALX400 type on it, it was an AX. I believe there's some issue with putting AVs/AXs on the 123, too bendy or something?

L1011

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

What are those two?

The uniform bus is used as fitting rooms for when drivers get uniforms, a quick google suggests the "Us Bus" is a mobile classroom used for...something.

SickCert

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

What are those two?

The Us Bus

Cookie_Monster

SickCert wrote: »

The Us Bus

shudder, those awful single low floor single deckers that used to be used on the 111 & 59a around here. They must be the greatest heap of ****e DB ever bought!

I don't think I was ever on one that didn't have at least on side of the rear suspension arseways and collapsed

stop

Karsini wrote: »

Nobody's mentioned the 123, that's one route that could seriously do without WVs. A lot of the time they're completely full by the time they reach Ballybough! They also use RVs on the route but I think I've only ever seen one ALX400 type on it, it was an AX. I believe there's some issue with putting AVs/AXs on the 123, too bendy or something?

AVs/AXs are becoming more common on the 123 these days. Also VG has appeared on it at weekends.

stop

TirEoghain wrote: »

WV9 (Fire damage)
WV10 (Fire damage)
WV11 (Fire damage)

All 44Bs burning out near barnaculla/glencullen iirc?

markpb

MYOB wrote: »

The uniform bus is used as fitting rooms for when drivers get uniforms

Eh.... don't DB have offices they could use or is this a new cost saving measure and we'll soon see #59 sold off to become a badly needed Spar?

parsi

Zoney wrote: »

Ham'nd'egger:
Limerick also had double deckers until the early 90s and I would suggest you don't know what you are talking about if you suggest that double deckers would not be needed in Limerick. Despite a 10 mins frequency and a bus lane along the outer part of the journey, the bus service is still insufficient on the Raheen service, and is often overcrowded on the Castletroy service also (UL campus is over 10,000 served by a single bus service to the city centre and near the bus/railway station, that also serves the suburb generally).

IIRC the No. 8 (Raheen - UL) used have double-deckers in the lates 80s / early 90s. There was a double-decker on the No2 one day and we barelled along Mulgrave St and the Ballysimon Road before grinding to a halt with an "oops " moments at the railway bridge.

From my travels to NIHEL/UL the morning flows were fairly predictable but the afternoon/evening flows were less so (except for the 5-6 pm period)

Victor

markpb wrote: »

Eh.... don't DB have offices they could use or is this a new cost saving measure and we'll soon see #59 sold off to become a badly needed Spar?

#59 is going anyway as part of the Dublin Central project.

Of course, having it in a vehicle means that it can serve all sites.

SickCert

markpb wrote: »

Eh.... don't DB have offices they could use or is this a new cost saving measure and we'll soon see #59 sold off to become a badly needed Spar?

They only need to staff the bus for 8 weeks a year while it goes around the garages, then the bus goes back to mothballs and the student back to school!

SickCert

The middle door argument has been long done here but it is almost universally accepted that until such time as our city fathers provide safe bus stops for buses to use, the middle door will be consigned to history in Dublin; I am sure KC61, Sickcert, Spareman, Aquavid and Alek can fill you on how fraught drivers find this side of bus driving in the city.

Not only the stopping situation ~ the humans in general tend to do silly things in the rear footwell. Sit kids, store buggies/parcels/baggage. Use the opening mechanism as a handrail (ouch on the VL's)! Then the Nitelinks,,,,,,,, stories of the area being used as a toilet and vomiting basin.

markpb

SickCert wrote: »

Not only the stopping situation ~ the humans in general tend to do silly things in the rear footwell. Sit kids, store buggies/parcels/baggage. Use the opening mechanism as a handrail (ouch on the VL's)! Then the Nitelinks,,,,,,,, stories of the area being used as a toilet and vomiting basin.

People stand/store buggys in the middle door because they're not used. In other cities, you'd be moved out of the way by people trying to get off (or even on, but that's another matter).

monument

markpb wrote: »

Then DB proceededs to run them on totally unsuitable routes while pretending they were double deckers and forcing people to maneuver all the way from the back of the bus, past the doors, to the front of the bus to alight. .

Fixed that.

TirEoghain

Sure wouldn't the AWs and WVs be next in line for withdrawal after the remaining RVs are gone, or has BD quit the idea of keeping nothing older than 12 years old in the passenger service fleet?

TirEoghain

Question about the use of middle doors..

I'm completely unfamiliar with the new DB smart cards. When using them, are passengers required to tag off as well as tagging on? If so, it would cost a goood bit of extra outlay to commission the use of centre doors, as they would have to install smart card readers on the exit doors as well.

As an aside, I can't understand why the new VG Airlink vehicles haven't been fitted with centre doors. I've always seen them used on the AV Airlinks and they seemed to be very effective.

Victor

TirEoghain wrote: »

Question about the use of middle doors..

I'm completely unfamiliar with the new DB smart cards. When using them, are passengers required to tag off as well as tagging on?

No, all the smart cards to date are season tickets, there is no electronic purse, other than the Luas one.

If so, it would cost a goood bit of extra outlay to commission the use of centre doors, as they would have to install smart card readers on the exit doors as well.

Its just scanner (or two) and a bit of wiring. It shouldn't be that difficult.

As an aside, I can't understand why the new VG Airlink vehicles haven't been fitted with centre doors. I've always seen them used on the AV Airlinks and they seemed to be very effective.

While yes, everyone is getting off at a limited number of stops and you will have a surge then, there is no boarding at the same time and it does mean more seating capacity.