is taxsaver.ie a better deal?

nuttlys

just saw a http://www.taxsaver.ie ad on facebook (social media works! :eek:) and made me think about getting one.

But then I looked closer. As I'm the only person in work who travels by public transport I'd have to argue getting this in.

I get two buses to work.

A monthly ticket from taxsaver.ie would 'cost' me - €68.60 (normally €98.00 PRSI Rate: 8% Tax Rate: 20% Levy: 2%).

A Rambler 30 Day Adult from Dublin Bus costs me - €100.00

It seems initially obvious that taxsaver is a better option but working this out per day I come to a different conclusion.

The taxsaver monthly ticket will only last 30 days. Put in 4 weekends and that means it will only last 22 working days say on average. That works out at 68.60/22=€3.19 per day.

The Rambler 30 Day Adult will last 30 working days. That works out at 100/30=€3.33 per day.

Hardly any difference. Put in these points and the argument for a taxsaver ticket seem less worthy:

1. You need a CIE photo. Small but still time consuming.
2. You need your workplace to be agreeable to the scheme, which in my case means working to get them on board.
3. The taxsaver 22 working days €3.19 figure is an average. If you factor in days lost on a monthly ticket because of bank holidays, annual leave, sick days, etc. that figure could be well above the €3.33 of the rambler ticket.

I know you can save more if your paying the higher rate, but I would be of the opinion that most paying higher rate can afford a car/taxi/limo :rolleyes:

Really I think the tax saver scheme is the Government shooting itself in the foot. The commuter (in my case anyway) doesn't save by joining, but if I did I would pay less taxes yet not gaining any net benefit.

witchgirl26

I can see where you're coming from if you're not going to get any use out of the ticket over the weekend. I on the other hand have the yearly bus ticket and use it all the time as I often meet friends at the weekend in town or get the Nitelink home which you can't with the rambler tickets. Also saves thinking about getting a new one every month or so.

Just depends on your usage really whether it's of any benefit.

Colm R

You have hit the one single fault of salary sacrifice in order to get things. People on lower incomes will in real terms spend more money than people on higher incomes for such purchases.

My boss bought a very similar bike to mine on the buy a bike scheme. The difference in money paid to the shop was in or around €20. However, in real terms he paid about 20% less than I did.

Now I am not going to argue with his income. He deserves it.

But I don't think its fair that I pay in real terms, more money than he does for the same product.

And its exactly the same for taxsaver.ie.

But I am not sure what can be done however.

Polar101

Well.. it's the annual tickets that offer some value since you get 2 "free" months.

Last year I paid exactly 2.28€ a day for "unlimited" bus and rail travel, that's not too bad in my opinion. Still, most people at my workspace seem to be happy paying more than that every day (they take the bus and pay single tickets at €2.20 a trip). Each to their own, I guess.

Ste.phen

OP, If you get the yearly ticket (and of course I'm aware you then have the risk of losing it and paying the replacement penalty) it works out better:

686.00 / 230 working days* = 2.98 per working day.
It's a little cheaper again, and you get the nightlink included (I think...)

* - ((365/7)*5) - 10 Public holidays (rounded up) - 20 (approx holidays))

robd

On the other hand the yearly Dublin Bus ticket costs €980

That's €686 based on your PAYE/PRSI calc.

Based on 12 months at 22 days usage per month
686/12/22 = €2.60 per day.

So even cheaper.

Much easier for your employer and they just have to handle 1 instead of 12 purchases and they divide the cost over 12 months, taking it direct form your salary. They can be purchased from the start of any month and last for 12 months.

markpb

nuttlys wrote: »

I know you can save more if your paying the higher rate, but I would be of the opinion that most paying higher rate can afford a car/taxi/limo :rolleyes:

Public transport is a misnomer which leads you to think like this. Americans have a better term - mass transit. Buses, trams and trains aren't provided in cities solely for poor people, they've provided because they're a much more efficient mode of transport than the private car. It it's cities interests to have mass transit because roads and parking are expensive to build and maintain.

It's also in their interest to attract people from all income ranges to use mass transit. There's no point in saying "rich" people shouldn't use buses or shouldn't be incentivised to use it, the more people to use it, the better the system is. Allowing me to buy my bus ticket cheaper through the taxsaver scheme makes me more likely to take the bus and less likely to buy a car and add to the congestion. The benefits aren't just economic, they're social as well.

Like Polar101 said, there are large savings to be made for some people (and their companies because of the employers PRSI deduction). I commute by bus and Luas to get to work. The ticket costs me €554 after tax deductions which is €2 per working day. There's no other ticket type that could work out cheaper and there's no way I could buy and run a car for a year for anything approaching that. It works out even cheaper for me because I use it most weekends and occasionally on the nightlink.

antoinolachtnai

Well, this is one of the issues with the taxsaver scheme. It is, the economists say, a 'regressive' tax break because it benefits the rich much more than the poor.

On the other hand, there is an issue that 'modal shift' from car to bus is only possible by convincing the middle classes to use buses.

Personally, i would say that if you want the middle class to use buses, the key is to improve the quality and positioning of the service rather than focusing on the price. (But no one listens to me.)

In actual fact, the tax break has its origins in the government's dealings with the public service, over the issue of free parking at CS offices.. It provides a sort of an alternative to this benefit and also makes the parking benefit a bit easier to explain politically to those who don't have it.

It is amazing how expensive this tax break is in terms of administration. The bus companies all need a little office to administer it, and it also requires administration on the employer side too. However, the employer gets paid for administering the scheme - every time a company buys a swords express commuter ticket for an employee, they save 160 euros on their employer's PRSI bill.

I think the tax break should be radically changed when and if the integrated ticket comes in. You should be able to discount your entire yearly lodgements to the integrated ticket against your tax at the standard rate. There should be no employer's PRSI break and employers should not be involved in administering it.

angel01

I use both the bus & luas so was looking at the yearly ticket but my employer wants us to pay for the ticket in 3 months and that would work out way too expensive if you get the monthly ticket through work (from taxsaver.ie) how much would the monthly bus & luas ticket be?

Padraig Mor

I got an annual Taxsaver ticket last year, which was great value. This year they put the price up 30% so I'm driving!

Victor

Note that they won't replace your 30 day bus ticket if you lose it!

Padraig Mor wrote: »

I got an annual Taxsaver ticket last year, which was great value. This year they put the price up 30% so I'm driving!

I don't believe there has been any such change. There were no fare increases for CIÉ companies since January 2009.*



* Some individual point to point fares may have had their discounts reduced.

Cookie_Monster

Victor wrote: »

Note that they won't replace your 30 day bus ticket if you lose it!I don't believe there has been any such change.

There was substantial discussion about this on here a while ago I remember. It went up in Nov/Dec iirc to get around the "no hike in fares" over 2009 leves this year

nuttlys

robd wrote: »

On the other hand the yearly Dublin Bus ticket costs €980

That's €686 based on your PAYE/PRSI calc.

Based on 12 months at 22 days usage per month
686/12/22 = €2.60 per day.

So even cheaper.

Much easier for your employer and they just have to handle 1 instead of 12 purchases and they divide the cost over 12 months, taking it direct form your salary. They can be purchased from the start of any month and last for 12 months.

This would be a good option but the initial outlay is way too large for my salary.

The main value issue I have is that a rambler ticket is non-consecutive days whereas the taxsaver tickets are consecutive. I have a car, but for 'environmental' and economic reasons I use the bus on workdays, surely I am the 'model' citizen markpb was hinting toward. :P

another quick calc:

Annual ticket €686/Days in 2010 - weekend days 2010 - annual leave - sick days - bank holidays = cost per use

686/(365-104-22-2(guess)-10) or 686/227 = €3.02 per day

If I work 227 days a year that means I only need just over 7 rambler tickets at a cost of €756. So I'd save 70 euro over all if I lumped up half my pay for next month.

I do think that other comments regarding the administration costs of the system are another weakness of the scheme.

I'll stick to 30 day Rambler tickets for now though. Thank you all for your advice.

Ginny

Victor wrote: »

Note that they won't replace your 30 day bus ticket if you lose it!I don't believe there has been any such change. There were no fare increases for CIÉ companies since January 2009.*



* Some individual point to point fares may have had their discounts reduced.

Annual DB ticket went up from 2008/2009 to 2009/2010 by at least €130 (it may have actually been €150)

Padraig Mor

Victor wrote: »

I don't believe there has been any such change. There were no fare increases for CIÉ companies since January 2009.*.

Annual ticket went from €840 last year to c.€1100 this year. Cobh rail and Cork city + suburban bus. No way was I paying an extra 30% for the shoddy service provided. Deflation my arse!

Victor

nuttlys wrote: »

This would be a good option but the initial outlay is way too large for my salary.

Many people repay their employer monthly for annual tickets - remember they are saving about 12% on PRSI.

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Annual ticket went from €840 last year to c.€1100 this year. Cobh rail and Cork city + suburban bus. No way was I paying an extra 30% for the shoddy service provided. Deflation my arse!

Do you mean the increase in annual tickets implemented in late 2008 and the increases in other fares that were made in January 2009 that insulated annual ticket holders until late 2009?

Padraig Mor

Victor wrote: »

Do you mean the increase in annual tickets implemented in late 2008 and the increases in other fares that were made in January 2009 that insulated annual ticket holders until late 2009?

I have absolutely no idea. All I know is the cost went up 30%!

smcelhinney

Hey.

Sorry for hijacking, but I didnt want to start a new thread for a simple question which is related to the topic on hand.

I purchased a point-to-point Drogheda to Dublin from 1st Jan this year (annual). It transpires that I'll be moving into city centre in and around late June. Will I be able to get a part refund on this ticket?

Victor

I think if you have 3 or more months left you can get a partial refund.