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Gay or Lesbian?

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  • 26-01-2010 5:36pm
    #1
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭


    What is the difference? Why is there a separate term for a female gay person? Do you just use the term to identify yourself as female?


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    #2
    Spark Boy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23 ✭Spark Boy


    never really thought about that i suppose in the instance of talking about couples it allows you to know the sex of the couples involved, either their a hetero couple (hence male/female), gay couple (hence male) or lesbian (hence female).. not the best reply there tho. why u think of that question?


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    #3
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,189 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Many people when they say gay mean men only.
    I would say gay as meaning both.


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    #4
    oisindoyle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 899 ✭✭✭oisindoyle


    The word "lesbian" is derived from the name of the Greek island of Lesbos, home to the 6th-century BCE poet Sappho


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    #5
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    Gay is gender nutral.


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    #6
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Yes a lot of women say they are gay

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #7
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    –noun 7.a homosexual person, esp. a male.

    From Dictionary.com, gay technically means both male and female homosexuals but generally is used to refer exclusively to males.


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    #8
    Monkey61
    Registered Users Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭Monkey61


    Hate the word lesbian and would never use it. It sounds like an awful medical term.

    Gay ftw.


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    #9
    DubArk
    Registered Users Posts: 831 ✭✭✭DubArk


    Monkey61 wrote: »
    Hate the word lesbian and would never use it. It sounds like an awful medical term.

    Gay ftw.

    I agree... alot of gay women I know hate it too.....


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    #10
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    Maybe the same reason we have the words "Man" and "Women"....perhpas we should start calling everyone "Human Being" that is gender neutral...;)


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    #11
    Tricity Bendix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,510 ✭✭✭Tricity Bendix


    partyguinness wrote: »
    Maybe the same reason we have the words "Man" and "Women"....perhpas we should start calling everyone "Human Being" that is gender neutral...;)
    Except that homosexual women can be called lesbians or gay, whereas calling a female a man would not be seen as correct in any sense.


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    #12
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Tricity Bendix wrote: »
    Except that homosexual women can be called lesbians or gay, whereas calling a female a man would not be seen as correct in any sense.
    Except that Human beings can be called Male or female.


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    #13
    AssaultedPeanut
    Registered Users Posts: 806 ✭✭✭AssaultedPeanut


    I nearly always refer to myself, and other homosexual women, as gay rather than lesbian. I just don't like that word for some reason


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    #14
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    A rose by any other name would smell as sweet!


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    #15
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    Spark Boy wrote: »
    why u think of that question?

    Ah no reason really. I just sometimes wonder why there is a gender specific term for females only.


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    #16
    TheLargerBowl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 136 ✭✭TheLargerBowl


    dementedsoul wrote: »
    I nearly always refer to myself, and other homosexual women, as gay rather than lesbian. I just don't like that word for some reason

    Ditto.


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    #17
    BanzaiBk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,285 ✭✭✭BanzaiBk


    Lesbian sounds like I should carry a weapon of some sort and be wearing armour. Very harsh like, and shur I'm very lovely and gay :p


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    #18
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Except that Human beings can be called Male or female.

    or transgendered or transsexual or genderqueer or intersex

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #19
    Tricity Bendix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,510 ✭✭✭Tricity Bendix


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Except that Human beings can be called Male or female.

    I don't think you understood my post at all.


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    #20
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    I don't think I have heard any gay women refer to themselves as 'lesbians'. Just wondering why there is a need to specify,

    Especially with the LGB(T) Community.

    Why not just Gay & Bi?


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    #21
    i71jskz5xu42pb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,806 ✭✭✭i71jskz5xu42pb


    Great question, it's one I've always wondered about. If Gay can really be applied to Lesbians then why the need for "Gay and Lesbian" groups. I assume the administrators of these groups put some thought into the naming and tag lines for their societies.

    Most here seem to prefer the term Gay. I assume some of you at least are a member of an organisation with the "Gay and Lesbian" tag. Did you never think to ask?

    A pretty good example:
    GLEN_logo.gif


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    #22
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    Theres all sorts of wrong with that logo.


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    #23
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    no GLEN is not a good example of a group at all most groups are not called 'gay and lesbian' - they are generally LGBT or LGB being Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, or Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual. As a complete aside - There is a fierce resistance to including Transgender in this forum title

    Anyway I know lots of women who define themselves as lesbians so I don't see any issue -

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #24
    i71jskz5xu42pb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,806 ✭✭✭i71jskz5xu42pb


    Johnnymcg wrote: »
    no GLEN is not a good example of a group at all most groups are not called 'gay and lesbian' - they are generally LGBT or LGB being Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, or Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual.

    You're missing the point. The original question was "Why is there a separate term for a female gay person?". All the groups you mention include Gay and Lesbian. Are all Lesbians not Gay? If so why list them twice?

    It seems like a simple question, there must be a reason.


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    #25
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Zoey Substantial Suburbanite wrote: »
    Are all Lesbians not Gay?

    No -Definitely not - It is a distinctly separate term - some lesbians like to use the term gay but quite a lot vociferously don't and to be honest there would be huge opposition to dropping the term which I would agree with

    I think a lot of the reason behind this is to do with male power, male privilege and patriarchical societies where men take over - Lesbians insisting on the term are insisting on having their own identity

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #26
    i71jskz5xu42pb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,806 ✭✭✭i71jskz5xu42pb


    Johnnymcg wrote: »
    No - It is a distinctly separate term - some lesbians like to use the term gay but quite a lot vociferously don't and to be honest there would be huge opposition to dropping the term which I would agree with

    OK, this is a new one for me and would explain it.

    So what's the difference between a gay woman and a lesbian?


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    #27
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Lesbians want to have their own separate identity and don't want to buy into the ideas of patriarchy

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #28
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    Johnnymcg wrote: »
    There is a fierce resistance to including Transgender in this forum title

    I don't know if that's true. Those who lobbied for a change usually started from the premise that the title not including transgender meant that transgendered people and topic were unwelcome. The same logic was applied when requests were made for a transgender forum. It almost guarantees people will be against whatever is proposed. There simply wasn't enough of a coherent argument for a change.
    Zoey Substantial Suburbanite wrote: »
    You're missing the point. The original question was "Why is there a separate term for a female gay person?". All the groups you mention include Gay and Lesbian. Are all Lesbians not Gay? If so why list them twice?

    It seems like a simple question, there must be a reason.

    You'll notice bi-sexuals aren't gay. I find it cringe worthy when bi-sexual females call themselves lesbian.


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    #29
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    Johnnymcg wrote: »
    No -Definitely not - It is a distinctly separate term - some lesbians like to use the term gay but quite a lot vociferously don't and to be honest there would be huge opposition to dropping the term which I would agree with

    I think a lot of the reason behind this is to do with male power, male privilege and patriarchical societies where men take over - Lesbians insisting on the term are insisting on having their own identity

    So it's mostly just a term to identify yourself as a homosexual female, as the term gay primarily implies that you are male?

    Edit: I don't know if that reads the same to you as it does in my head. What I mean is the default mode for gay is most likely 'male' until proven or stated otherwise. Generally the same when you think of 'person' I think most people tend to primarily think of a man first. I may be wrong though...


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    #30
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    WindSock wrote: »
    So it's mostly just a term to identify yourself as a homosexual female, as the term gay primarily implies that you are male?

    Edit: I don't know if that reads the same to you as it does in my head. What I mean is the default mode for gay is most likely 'male' until proven or stated otherwise. Generally the same when you think of 'person' I think most people tend to primarily think of a man first. I may be wrong though...
    It's a term used for clear identity but also to clearly delineate certain things as well - gay men and lesbians don't have the same experiences or issues e.g. gay men's sexual health is completely different to lesbians sexual health or issues such as domestic violence or children - lesbians and gay men have different experiences so it's a way of ensuring organisations are not completely dominated and controlled by men who can at times only look at gay male experiences/issues and totally ignore the experiences facing lesbians and bi women - That's why some organisations have male/female co chairing but sometimes some organisations are so male dominated e.g. GLEN that women actually set up their own organisations e.g. LINC or LASI

    I personally always try and use the term chairperson because it drives me mad when some women are described as a 'chairman'

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #31
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    No. Lesbian is a subset of Gay. Everyone who is a Lesbian is Gay. Gay is a term which refers to a homosexual. In the same way human is a subset of mammal. Not all mammals are human but all humans are mammals. It you call a homosexual woman gay and she replies "I'm not gay, I'm lesbian". feel free to call her a moron.

    Depending on the current trend homosexuals women may prefer to be referred to as Lesbian in order to distinguish themselves from gay men. A "Lesbian" night leaves no ambiguity over the target audience. A "Gay night" will be full of men.


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