Reform Voting Rights for Emigrants

Dannyboy83

There is a petition here advocating reform of emigrant voting rights:

http://amhrannua.com/irish-politics-Information?page_id=213
We propose to implement full emigrant voting rights for Irish emigrants, for anyone holding an Irish passport and who was born in Ireland, and spent at least sixteen years ordinarily resident in the country. This could be done in a very straightforward manner, in a similar fashion to online banking done by Irish banks.

Upon confirmation of identification and issuance of codes, emigrants could then vote via the internet in national elections and referendums, registered in their last Irish constituency, (if its good enough to secure something like bank account numbers and transactions, it should do quite well for voting).

It looks worthy to me.
It would be interesting to know why you disagree; if you do.

Victor

Will these people also be taxed?

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

This could be done in a very straightforward manner, in a similar fashion to online banking done by Irish banks.

So someone will know how I voted. :rolleyes:

Noobs.

Amhran Nua

Victor wrote: »

Will these people also be taxed?

No other nation out of 115 with emigrant voting, except the US, connects taxation with voting rights, and the US does so only for those earning more than $85000 per annum. A nation is not a business, a country is not a corporation, and taxpayers aren't shareholders.

Victor wrote: »

So someone will know how I voted. :rolleyes:

Noobs.

Online voting and postal voting works quite well in countries like Switzerland already - there is no requirement to store voting records after asserting the initial vote is accurate. You raise a good point though, but it is worth keeping in mind that most of the developed world already has systems in place to enable emigrant voting.

Amhran Nua

Here is some information that has already been sent to the editor's desk of every newspaper in the country this week, it has already seen several publications:

Hello,
We're setting up a petition on an important issue which affects many Irish families especially in these economically troubled times - emigration - which is heartbreaking for emigrants and their families alike, and to add insult to injury, at this point Irish emigrants can't vote in any elections or referendums, a right which is taken away from them by the difficulty they find themselves in and through no fault of their own.

Currently, there are around 115 countries and territories - including nearly all developed nations - that have systems in place to allow their emigrants to vote, and the number is growing. Even countries with very high rates of emigration, such as Italy, the Dominican Republic, and Mexico have recently allowed their emigrants to vote.

Ireland is in a highly unusual situation in not allowing the majority of its overseas citizens any say in the political process - members of the armed forces and the diplomatic services are able to vote in Dail elections, while only NUI and Trinity graduates can vote in the Seanad. As it stands since emigrants aren't entered into the register of the electorate, they can't vote in Irish elections or referendums.

Some might say, "No representation without taxation" - but this is of course seriously undermined by the fact that no other nation seems to link emigrant voting with emigrant taxation. In fact, the US is the only developed nation that requires its citizens abroad to pay taxes on money earned abroad, and even then the only people affected are those making over $85,000.

And some might also suggest that Irish people abroad quickly lose touch with the country, and can't stay informed enough to vote responsibly. Its easy to counter this by pointing to the number of Irish clubs and societies that are in every country the Irish emigrate to, and the close contact maintained with those at home.

So we ask for your support in this campaign to give back voting rights to Irish emigrants, as the Oireachtas committee on the Constitution is meeting to consider matters of electoral reform at the moment. If you would like to express your support (which doesn't mean signing up for the party), please go here, and thanks for taking the time to support this campaign.

http://amhrannua.com/irish-politics-Information?page_id=213

Choke

Tbh, I can't really agree with giving people who don't live in the country a say in its running.

Especially since, if you go back to those who left a few decades ago, they would have more than enough votes to switch the results in many constituencies.

Also, tbh, the ones I've met abroad (those gone a good while) tend to have a very simplistic view of Irish politics, and many of them think you should just vote for Fianna Fail or Sinn Fein. They tend to be quite Republican (esp those who left pre 1985)

Amhran Nua

Choke wrote: »

Tbh, I can't really agree with giving people who don't live in the country a say in its running.

Well the way I'd see it is, Irish citizens should have the right to vote in Irish national elections and referendums, because they are Irish citizens. You don't lose that citizenship when you go abroad for a holiday or because you have no choice, to find employment, due to the failures of the Irish government. Why therefore should you lose the attendant rights that come with citizenship?

If most of the developed world is doing it, including countries with high emigration like Italy and Mexico, its clearly doable for Ireland.

mdebets

I'm coming from the other side, being originally from a country that allows its emigrants to vote (Germany) and living in Ireland. I think it's one of the more stupid ideas. Voting should be connected to residency, rather than citizenship.
For me, it doesn't realy matter or has any impactt, which government Germany has (for which I can vote), but I'm directly impacted by the Irish government (for which I ca't vote). So I think, people should only be allowed to vote in elections, which directly impact them (via taxes, benefits and policies).

In addition to that, Ireland has also the problem that the number of emigrants (compared to the population in Ireland) is so big, that they could have a real impact on the election outcome, again dictated by people who don't have to live with the consequences of their vote.

Amhran Nua

mdebets wrote: »

Voting should be connected to residency, rather than citizenship.

I see no problem with people who want to become Irish citizens voting - if the national vote is wanted, its not that hard to become an Irish citizen.

mdebets wrote: »

but I'm directly impacted by the Irish government (for which I ca't vote).

You are entitled to vote in the local elections however.

mdebets wrote: »

In addition to that, Ireland has also the problem that the number of emigrants (compared to the population in Ireland) is so big, that they could have a real impact on the election outcome, again dictated by people who don't have to live with the consequences of their vote.

A similar situation exists for Mexico, Italy and the Dominican Republic though, and they seem to be doing alright. I can't see emigrants originating legislation, so nothing really off the beaten track would get through, but again, why should the rights of citizens be taken away if they have to seek employment elsewhere through no fault of their own?

ei.sdraob

mdebets wrote: »

I'm coming from the other side, being originally from a country that allows its emigrants to vote (Germany) and living in Ireland. I think it's one of the more stupid ideas. Voting should be connected to residency, rather than citizenship.
For me, it doesn't realy matter or has any impactt, which government Germany has (for which I can vote), but I'm directly impacted by the Irish government (for which I ca't vote). So I think, people should only be allowed to vote in elections, which directly impact them (via taxes, benefits and policies).

In addition to that, Ireland has also the problem that the number of emigrants (compared to the population in Ireland) is so big, that they could have a real impact on the election outcome, again dictated by people who don't have to live with the consequences of their vote.

why do you think this proposal is being floated by a "new" party

you are right if someone chose to leave the country for extended period and live somewhere else, wtf should they be allowed to vote here, if they want a vote they can comeback here and pay taxes and contribute to society, it was their choice to leave


ill turn that proposal around, any immigrants in this country who can only vote on local elections, should they be also to vote in national and eu elections??
a bit of a double standard there??

Amhran Nua

ei.sdraob wrote: »

why do you think this proposal is being floated by a "new" party

you are right if someone chose to leave the country for extended period and live somewhere else, wtf should they be allowed to vote here

115 other countries, or most of the developed world, would disagree with you there. As for why the proposal is being floated by a "new" party, it is extremely doubtful that mainstream parties would want to be made accountable for their poor decisions in government by those who have been forced out of the country by aforementioned decisions.

ei.sdraob wrote: »

ill turn that around any immigrants in this country who can only vote on local elections, should they be also to vote in national and eu elections??

a bit of a double standard there??

This has already been responded to.

ei.sdraob

Amhran Nua wrote: »

I see no problem with people who want to become Irish citizens voting - if the national vote is wanted, its not that hard to become an Irish citizen.

requirement to become a citizen by naturalization:

* living and working and paying taxes for 5 years
* be of good character and pass Garda detailed vetting (often taking 6-9months)
* not commit any crime
* have taxes in order
* never avail of any welfare
* not leave the country for extended period in that time

and once the 5 years is up, you have to wait another 3 years (while keeping up the above) for the application to be processed, with no appeals allowed on refusal

yes "very easy" to become a citizen

Amhran Nua wrote: »

115 other countries, or most of the developed world, would disagree with you there. As for why the proposal is being floated by a "new" party, it is extremely doubtful that mainstream parties would want to be made accountable for their poor decisions in government by those who have been forced out of the country by aforementioned decisions.
.

if someone wants to hold the government accountable there are ways of dealing with such a government, such as forming a new party (as you are doing) or starting mass protests or buggering the opposition or Greens (who have and had plenty of opportunities to cause a new election) who are playing along to the Fianna Failure

running away and then expecting a vote is rather selfish dont you think?

Amhran Nua

ei.sdraob wrote: »

requirement to become a citizen by naturalization:

* living and working and paying taxes for 5 years
* be of good character and pass Garda detailed vetting (often taking 6-9months)
* not commit any crime
* have taxes in order
* not leave the country for extended period in that time

and once the 5 years is up, you have to wait another 3 years (while keeping up the above) for the application to be processed, with no appeals allowed on refusal

yes "very easy" to become a citizen

That doesn't seem to exclude anyone on the basis of their origin, education, or anything else however. Don't break the law, pay your taxes, live here for 8 years. Yes, pretty easy.

Amhran Nua

ei.sdraob wrote: »

running away and then expecting a vote is rather selfish dont you think?

Just to respond to the edit there, a lot of emigrants have little choice but to leave, would you rather they stayed here and went on social welfare? And again, most developed countries already accommodate them.

ei.sdraob

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Just to respond to the edit there, a lot of emigrants have little choice but to leave, would you rather they stayed here and went on social welfare? And again, most developed countries already accommodate them.

i realize it might not be their fault, but by leaving for extended period they should understand that they are giving up some rights (and hopefully gaining some rights in their new country such as being allowed to work, receive healthcare etc)


its not my fault that the government are taking hard earned money from me and giving it to banks,ps,welfare in huge wads. and then going abroad and borrowing more money in my name, i can either leave and let the place fall apart or stay and do something about it, thats my point of view to this situation and i suppose its the same for yourself


anyways i think you have good intentions at heart but are missing some bigger issues such as only half of the electorate here in Ireland typically bothering to vote at all (and the ones who do vote usually vote because of a civil war division donkeys ago), this apathy for politics and not exercising your rights is one of the reasons we got to where we are

mdebets

Amhran Nua wrote: »

I see no problem with people who want to become Irish citizens voting - if the national vote is wanted, its not that hard to become an Irish citizen.

Why should I have to become an Irish citizen, just to vote, if I live for a few years in Ireland. You could turn this around as well. Why can't Irish citizens abroad just not take on the citizenship of the country they are living in if they are so desperate for voting.

Amhran Nua wrote: »

A similar situation exists for Mexico, Italy and the Dominican Republic though, and they seem to be doing alright. I can't see emigrants originating legislation, so nothing really off the beaten track would get through, but again, why should the rights of citizens be taken away if they have to seek employment elsewhere through no fault of their own?

Italy and Mexico have 60 and 110 Mio citizens. Compare this to 4 Mio. in Ireland. I don't know how big the expatriat communities of Italy and Mexico are, but I doubt they are as big as Irelands (relative). This means the impact of emigrant votes would be much higher in Ireland than in Italy and Mexico.

You are talking about the rights of the Irish Citizens. If they are allowed to vote, they should also be 'allowed' to pay taxes in Ireland.
If you are living in Ireland and pay your taxes there, you are paying the politicians, and are also directly impacted by their decisions. If you live abroad, you are neither.
So why should someone who isn't paying taxes and is not impacted by their decisions vote vor politicians that are paid for by me and other people living in Ireland, who are also impacted directly by it.

It should realy be a link between residency and votes. You should be allowed to vote where you live, not where you were born several decades ago.
I'm actually think the same about the stupid Iirish notion that people living in Dublin are going to their home county (where they might not have lived for several years or decades) to vote. I don't know of any other country where people would do this.

ei.sdraob

i think what some of us here are trying to get at

being a citizen, means having rights (a) and responsibilities (b)

you want to have (a) without the (b) which as some have pointed out is rather unfair



for example if you are a US citizen, you will have to pay US tax even if you dont live in the US


anyways wouldn't such a large decision require a referendum?

mdebets

Amhran Nua wrote: »

That doesn't seem to exclude anyone on the basis of their origin, education, or anything else however. Don't break the law, pay your taxes, live here for 8 years. Yes, pretty easy.

You forgot a few parts:
- don't leave the country for an extended period of time, so you can only go back home for a short break, to visit your family. This also might give you problems in your job if you have to travel extensivly
- 8 years is a long time - how many of the imigrants are actually staying that long in the country. I know many who are here just for a few years, so this wouldn't be a solution for them
- you're not allowed to receive social welfare payments. - so what happens if you loose your job to no fault of your own (e.g. the current recession)? your are not allowed to become an Irish citizen again
- there might be problem with the country of origin to getting a second citizenship

Amhran Nua

mdebets wrote: »

Why can't Irish citizens abroad just not take on the citizenship of the country they are living in if they are so desperate for voting.

There is nothing to stop them doing so.

mdebets wrote: »

Italy and Mexico have 60 and 110 Mio citizens. Compare this to 4 Mio. in Ireland. I don't know how big the expatriat communities of Italy and Mexico are, but I doubt they are as big as Irelands (relative). This means the impact of emigrant votes would be much higher in Ireland than in Italy and Mexico.

We're not talking about second generation Irish, as is specified in the petition.

mdebets wrote: »

You are talking about the rights of the Irish Citizens. If they are allowed to vote, they should also be 'allowed' to pay taxes in Ireland.

Again, linking taxation to voting rights is a mistake, a country is not a company, and taxpayers are not shareholders.

mdebets wrote: »

If you are living in Ireland and pay your taxes there, you are paying the politicians, and are also directly impacted by their decisions. If you live abroad, you are neither.

But presumably you use Irish services and earn money in this country as well, and as such are compensated for your taxation.

mdebets wrote: »

So why should someone who isn't paying taxes and is not impacted by their decisions vote vor politicians that are paid for by me and other people living in Ireland, who are also impacted directly by it.

Why should they lose their rights as Irish citizens?

mdebets wrote: »

It should realy be a link between residency and votes. You should be allowed to vote where you live, not where you were born several decades ago.

You are allowed to vote where you live, just not in the national elections.

Amhran Nua

ei.sdraob wrote: »

being a citizen, means having rights (a) and responsibilities (b)

you want to have (a) without the (b) which as some have pointed out is rather unfair

And yet most of the developed world already has it. The advantages in maintaining contact with the Irish diaspora, and making them feel welcome to return home are also something to consider. Emigration is not and should not be exile.

ei.sdraob wrote: »

for example if you are a US citizen, you will have to pay US tax even if you dont live in the US

There are a wide variety of double taxation treaties to prevent that happening.

ei.sdraob wrote: »

anyways wouldn't such a large decision require a referendum?

No, its not specified in the constitution as far as I am aware.

mdebets wrote: »

You forgot a few parts:
- don't leave the country for an extended period of time, so you can only go back home for a short break, to visit your family. This also might give you problems in your job if you have to travel extensivly

Which would be different to a normal Irish citizen in what way? People go on holidays then come back to Ireland, not that big a deal.

mdebets wrote: »

- 8 years is a long time - how many of the imigrants are actually staying that long in the country. I know many who are here just for a few years, so this wouldn't be a solution for them

If they are only here for a few years, why would they have enough experience with Irish culture, history, traditions and customs to be given citizenship?

mdebets wrote: »

- you're not allowed to receive social welfare payments. - so what happens if you loose your job to no fault of your own (e.g. the current recession)? your are not allowed to become an Irish citizen again

You are allowed to receive social welfare payments, many non Irish citizens are doing so as we speak. It might affect your citizenship application, but this is overall a good thing I feel.

mdebets wrote: »

- there might be problem with the country of origin to getting a second citizenship

That is a problem for citizens of that country to address.

mdebets

Amhran Nua wrote: »

There is nothing to stop them doing so.


We're not talking about second generation Irish, as is specified in the petition.

There's a practical problem with this. How are you going to proove that you have lived in Ireland for at least 16 years?
Unless you bring in mandatory resident registration (similar to how it's done in Germany), there is no way of prooving that anyone has not been living in Ireland for at least 16 years, so any sort of legislation would probably come out to every Irish citizen abroad being able to vote.

Amhran Nua wrote: »

But presumably you use Irish services and earn money in this country as well, and as such are compensated for your taxation.

Yes, but I don't have any right to participate in the decision of taxation and policies (other than on a local level), but would have to live by decisions taken by voters who are not impacted by their decision (emigrant voters).

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Why should they lose their rights as Irish citizens?

Why are you only talking about the right of voting? They are loosing their "right" to pay Irish taxes. Shoudn't they be given that right as well?

Amhran Nua wrote: »

You are allowed to vote where you live, just not in the national elections.

That's the main election that has impact on your taxation and your overall policies.

Amhran Nua

mdebets wrote: »

There's a practical problem with this. How are you going to proove that you have lived in Ireland for at least 16 years?
Unless you bring in mandatory resident registration (similar to how it's done in Germany), there is no way of prooving that anyone has not been living in Ireland for at least 16 years, so any sort of legislation would probably come out to every Irish citizen abroad being able to vote.

Thats an interesting point, but there are records held by various state agencies, from Education to Revenue, and it wouldn't be too difficult to collate these to confirm eligibility.

mdebets wrote: »

Yes, but I don't have any right to participate in the decision of taxation and policies (other than on a local level), but would have to live by decisions taken by voters who are not impacted by their decision (emigrant voters).

So become an Irish citizen and gain that right.

mdebets wrote: »

Why are you only talking about the right of voting? They are loosing their "right" to pay Irish taxes. Shoudn't they be given that right as well?

Quite a few emigrants have sent and continue to send money home from abroad, but away and beyond that rather hard to quantify issue, linking taxation to voting rights is something only the US does, and thats only for people who are earning far more than average amounts of pay.

Laminations

Nobody should be allowed to vote in elections in a country they dont live in. Like other posters said they neither contribute or live with the consequences. I would suggest anyone who has had to leave because of this inept goverment takes a trip home before the next election, stay with friends or family and vote that way. Its too difficult to distinguish, by long distance methods, those recently screwed by the government who have been paying taxes up until very recently and those who haven't lived here for years.
Voting should definitely be linked to residency more than just citizenship

Edit: fair play on starting a new party but focus on something more relevant that actually effects the people living here.

mdebets

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Which would be different to a normal Irish citizen in what way? People go on holidays then come back to Ireland, not that big a deal.

I'm not talking about short holidays, but what about employees for example who have 50% ore more travel time, and are therefore out of the country on business for several weeks a year?

Amhran Nua wrote: »

If they are only here for a few years, why would they have enough experience with Irish culture, history, traditions and customs to be given citizenship?

You don't need any of this to vote. In the case of Ireland it might be an opportunity to not know them, but vote based on policies and performance in the last years alone. There are far too many peole in Ireland who vote for FF and FG because of events that happened nearly 100 years ago. This is not healthy for any democracy (as we see at the moment).

Amhran Nua wrote: »

You are allowed to receive social welfare payments, many non Irish citizens are doing so as we speak. It might affect your citizenship application, but this is overall a good thing I feel.

So who do you should be allowed to vote in an Irish election?
Someone who left Ireland 50 years ago (at the age of 16, so satisfying your criteria), has never set a foot into the country since then and isn't planning to do so, who still thinks the Ireland of today is the way it was 50 years ago and still votes for the ssme party his parents voted for, because they were on their side in the civil war?
Or an imigrant who is living in Ireland for the last 10 years in a high paid job, who is politically interested, has read the programs of all parties and knows what they stand for, but he can't get citizenship, because he received the dole 5 years ago for a month, while changing jobs?

Amhran Nua

Laminations wrote: »

Edit: fair play on starting a new party but focus on something more relevant that actually effects the people living here.

Thanks Laminations, I daresay giving a voice back to those who suffered the most from government incompetence will have a substantial effect on those living here. I mean look at the situation - reducing dole for young people is a fairly blatant effort to shunt the disaffected youth out of the country before they become too rowdy, a message sent by a Minister whose father famously said "well we can't all live on this little island", a sentiment for which he should have been drummed out of Irish politics. Every bit of support helps though.

mdebets wrote: »

You don't need any of this to vote.

I would disagree with that.

mdebets wrote: »

There are far too many peole in Ireland who vote for FF and FG because of events that happened nearly 100 years ago. This is not healthy for any democracy (as we see at the moment).

I'd definetely agree with that, however. We're also trying to motivate the youth vote and several other sectors that traditionally didn't vote, this petition is only part of it; we're in contact with several youth organisations right now, and we'll be getting on to the rest. Tough going though.

mdebets wrote: »

So who do you should be allowed to vote in an Irish election?
Someone who left Ireland 50 years ago (at the age of 16, so satisfying your criteria), has never set a foot into the country since then and isn't planning to do so, who still thinks the Ireland of today is the way it was 50 years ago and still votes for the ssme party his parents voted for, because they were on their side in the civil war?

Well that comes down to how closely emigrants remain in contact with people back in Ireland, and I don't think its unreasonable to say that Irish emigrants would retain closer cultural and traditional ties than many other countries. There are Irish clubs and societies in every country the Irish emigrate to - where are the French and German clubs and societies?

mdebets wrote: »

Or an imigrant who is living in Ireland for the last 10 years in a high paid job, who is politically interested, has read the programs of all parties and knows what they stand for, but he can't get citizenship, because he received the dole 5 years ago for a month, while changing jobs?

I don't think receiving assistance from welfare permanently bars you from citizenship.

ei.sdraob

Amhran Nua wrote: »

I don't think receiving assistance from welfare permanently bars you from citizenship.

no it means you cant apply for naturalization at least 5 years after you last received welfare, otherwise it will just get refused again after 3 years of waiting

nothing stopping them getting welfare but it effectively resets the naturalization count down clock to 0

and theres no appeals for refusals

Amhran Nua

ei.sdraob wrote: »

nothing stopping them getting welfare but it effectively resets the naturalization count down clock to 0

The thinking there I believe is that if you can't hold down a job for five years in a row, it would raise questions over citizenship.

ei.sdraob

Amhran Nua wrote: »

The thinking there I believe is that if you can't hold down a job for five years in a row, it would raise questions over citizenship.

of course, the problem is in the current recession that might be rather hard to do

and thats quite a situation to be in, go on dole and forget about citizenship or try to get along

anyways thats goinf offtopic

i can see where you coming from with this suggestion, but if people want certain rights they also need to face up to responsibilities that come attached

neither do i like the idea of someone who left the county and not having to live up to consequence of their vote being able to vote and potentially affect the lives of the people in this country (think the likes of all them american/irish voting SF in, and then not having to live with the disaster that would ensue)

mdebets

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Well that comes down to how closely emigrants remain in contact with people back in Ireland, and I don't think its unreasonable to say that Irish emigrants would retain closer cultural and traditional ties than many other countries. There are Irish clubs and societies in every country the Irish emigrate to - where are the French and German clubs and societies?

You'r proposal doesn't say that the emigrant who want's to vote should be in contact with the country.
So I amand my first example to that the guy didn't had any contact with Ireland at all. He just lived in the foreign country, didn't go to any Irish club or kept in touch with Ireland.

So who of these two people should have more rights to vote in an Irish election.

You also haven't answered my question about how it would be ractical to determine if someone has lived in Ireland for 16 years. Or why you only talk about rights selectively (including Voting, but not including taxation).

Amhran Nua

ei.sdraob wrote: »

i can see where you coming from with this suggestion, but if people want certain rights they also need to face up to responsibilities that come attached

Again, most of the developed world has no problem with the proposition.

ei.sdraob wrote: »

neither do i like the idea of someone who left the county and not having to live up to consequence of their vote being able to vote and potentially affect the lives of the people in this country (think the likes of all them american/irish voting SF in, and then not having to live with the disaster that would ensue)

Well thats a hypothetical, I believe US based support for SF has fallen off dramatically in recent years.

mdebets wrote: »

You'r proposal doesn't say that the emigrant who want's to vote should be in contact with the country.
So I amand my first example to that the guy didn't had any contact with Ireland at all. He just lived in the foreign country, didn't go to any Irish club or kept in touch with Ireland.

If he did that why would he bother voting? Its not mandatory.

mdebets wrote: »

You also haven't answered my question about how it would be ractical to determine if someone has lived in Ireland for 16 years. Or why you only talk about rights selectively (including Voting, but not including taxation).

I did actually, in posts number 18 and 21.

ei.sdraob

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Again, most of the developed world has no problem with the proposition.

and there lies the problem

mdebets

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Again, most of the developed world has no problem with the proposition.

Which doesn't necessarily makes it right.

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Well thats a hypothetical, I believe US based support for SF has fallen off dramatically in recent years.

Amhran Nua wrote: »

If he did that why would he bother voting? Its not mandatory.

He might just want to annoy people or just for the fun of it. Just because it's not mandatory doesn't mean he is not doing it.

Amhran Nua wrote: »

I did actually, in posts number 18 and 21.

[/QUOTE]
Sorry, i must have skipped this post.
I would agree that it might be possible with Revenue records, but I doubt that it would be possible (at least without spending tons of money for each application) to check educational records and make sure that the person applying for it is actually the person in the records (you would need to check from at least 2 schools, hope that they still have records from a long time ago, which are probably not in an electronic form). If you have to do this for every emigrant voter, it would soon amount to a lot of money, so the only way I could see this work would be to scrap the living time condition and make it only by citizenship, which would open it up to a huge number of voters.

There is also another practical problem. Where (at what constituency) are you planning to let emigrant vote?
In Germany, you can vote in the last constituency you were living in. In Ireland that wouldn't be possible, as you have no record as to where people are living.
This would mean, you can either create a new constituancy for emigrants. This constituancy could not be properly set-up size wise, because there are no numbers of how many voters would be in this constituancy, so their votes would either be worth more or less (unless you very lucky at guessing) than that of a voter living in Ireland.
The other possibility would be that each emigrant could register for an existing constituancy of his choice, which would make it very easy to manipulate the voting (within the law), by having people register strategily in constituancies where votes for one's party are needed.