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Discussion on the Help Desk
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27-01-2010 1:25pm#1
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yes, but it seems to me that the only difference between what we have now and what you're suggesting is that instead of 1 problem forum, we have 13. If you simply split the forum out to 13 forums without making any changes to the system, you'll just have 13 smaller problems.My name is URL wrote: »Isn't the system that's in place atm what's causing a lot of people to feel how they feel? The whole ACT thing somewhat relates to how that system works.
If you make a change to the system, why not do it in the main HD forum
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yes, but it seems to me that the only difference between what we have now and what you're suggesting is that instead of 1 problem forum, we have 13. If you simply split the forum out to 13 forums without making any changes to the system, you'll just have 13 smaller problems.
If you make a change to the system, why not do it in the main HD forum
If the main HD forum was to be opened up there'd be a hell of a lot of noise in it, and some issues could be overlooked.
By giving each Cat a HD, the noise will naturally be reduced. And the only input will be from those directly involved in maintaining the individual forums.0 -
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Doc, I think you're being unfair in your summary of HD as it is now. Having said that, I think the alternative you suggest is better than how I would summarise HD as it is now
Perhaps I was being facetious but I still think my description of why helpdesk doesn't work is wholly accurate.
BTW we never did get a response to the thread you started there either did we?
Here it is in case you'd forgotten as it appears everyone else has.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055655851
27/08/2009. I am still waiting by the phone.
We'll be waiting a while yet for a return on that one. Glad it wasn't a request to overturn a ban or something eh?0 -
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Thought I'd join in on this discussion. I'm not here to dictate anything about the thread itself or make any attempt to keep it on track etc. I just thought I'd respond to questions as best I can and not have you going on a best guess scenario. I am relatively new to the admin stuff but I've been around for a long time. I cant guarantee I have an answer to all of your questions but if I dont, I'll tell you and then go and see if I can find one.
I'd like to start by actually asking a question myselfPre-moderated posts for a start.
Also the people allowed to contribute is very restricted to the point where it's essentially a single user against the whole of the admin team plus maybe a mod or two who are most likely to all be on the same side anyway.
the latter part of this statement concerns me. Is this your idea of what a user would think? is this your perception of the helpdesk in general?
I personally would think of the helpdesk as a place for resolution of an issue through discussion rather than a battleground where you face off against your enemies. Ideally, and I do use the word "ideally" instead of "actually" on purpose a user or moderator who has an issue with a decision that affects him or her (I'm just going to use him for now) should be able to post on the helpdesk and discuss the matter with the person that caused the issue and hopefully a neutral third party. Its not meant to be a trial or a fight, its just supposed to be help in resolving the problem. The key word for me would be resolving. It was not meant to be a place for seeking retribution or for character assassaination or mud slinging and name calling. I do see your view on being against the "whole of the admin team". Probably why admins dont all jump into a thread. One or two would respond.more than that would be unusual and only if directly requested. Thats my understanding of it anyway. There may be exceptions but those would have to be considered on a case by case basis and the circumstances examined surrounding the event rather than just the event itself.
The process of helpdesk:
A user posts that a ban is unfair or just wonders why he cant post to X forum anymore. The process is , an admin picks up the thread, checks the user history and posts to see if there is a ban or infraction, if there is the admin checks the reason for the ban. That is then communicated back to the user. If the user says "thats not true" or further objects then the moderator or cmod in question is contacted and brought in to give their side of the story. Sometimes though, this can get messy. One or the other has a momentary lapse in judgement and posts something they shouldnt.
Its a flexible but long procedure that tries to cover all bases. Its not perfect. oversights do happen (proof that admins arent just sub-routines of a network brane!) Admin response adds one timeframe, then mod response or cmod response etc. its not like a phone, its not instant. Trust me, I joined the admins recently and already this has been discussed. I went back through the admin forum and I see it has been discussed in the past.
There is a discussion going on currently concerning this. I dont want to post details as there is nothing solid enough to present yet but I will say that URL's post shares a lot in common with my own and other admin's viewpoint and that is getting a good hearing. Will that be the way things go? I dont know yet. What I would like though, would be for the admins to present possibilities to the mods and cmods and see which way would work best. The admins cant think of every angle and possible failing. All of boards together cant think of every single possibility. I'm pretty sure that we could cover a lot of potential pitfalls (and if we open it up to CT we'd probably all be sleeping with our lights on for a few weeks).
I usually hit th equick reply button and post a huge behemoth essay tl;dr answer to threads but this time I hit the quote button so I wont
As I said at the start, I am happy to answer any questions that I am capable of answering and I'm willign to research any answers that i dotn know already. If I dont answer or respond to a question promptly, it may be that I'm either away or I havent had enough of a chance to get into it. But I can assure you that I wwill not ignore any posts aimed at me (if I do, its not intentional so please point it out to me).0 -
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General post, above as my intro excuse.dr.bollocko wrote: »Do you still think the current interaction between moderators, posters and admins is working as well as it could be?
Really?
Hello.
Where are my manners, I haven't popped my head about the parapet yet:)
Of course it isn't. That's something of a truism as questions go because there's always room for improvement as the corporate manual of crappy questions and answers says. So the answer to the corporate-style "do you think it's working as well could be..." question always has to be "no".
Ignoring the question and dealing with the actual query: No. I can see it from this thread for example (I don't need to use this thread as an example but it's the closest one). As it happens I barely have enough time to read before it's spun off into another direction. I don't make things personal as I'm crap at it but the past page reminds me of my late mother's tactic for arguments. When in doubt, also horse out something that didn't get done months ago as though the particular can be applied to the general in any sort of rational way. Here's a hint: it can't.
That query you've got up there (Dr
shoud have been sorted months ago. Obviously it was forgotten. That's not really good enough, though to be honest, until we get a proper ticket based system that's going to happen. I'd have bumped the thread a second time. But then I'm not my mother, while I'm polite I'd give it an auld second go rather than filing it away in some sort of Festivus-inspired list of grievances. But it still should have been sorted.
Des, your query should be sorted too. That hasn't been forgotten, it's just nothing's been done since as on the list of priorities it's lower than the stuff that needs to be teased out due to events in the past week and other more pressing matters. I could lie to you but where would be the point in that. Your request is about priority three on the scale from one down to four at the moment. Incidentally there is no priority scale, I'm illustrating the relative importance with a number scale.
Now, condescension. I realise some of you are going to ignore this part as I'm probably on one "side" of the discussion. Regardless of whether it's the side of light or the dark side I brought my own cookies though so that's OK. Put simple, a lot of people could do with putting away a bit of defensiveness. That requires less attacking. I don't see that happening because there's too much egotistical stuff going on here. And I'm waiting for every word of this to be analysed and for me to be requested to explain what I meant by the word "of". or something. I don't have the time so let's not.
It's like one of those Irish debate intervarsities in here. And I very much don't mean that in a positive way.
Incidentally when I ban or infract someone of the replies I get about 90% of them are entirely capitulatory. About 2% of the issued cards are overturned by me when the person responds. Varying reasons: my error, their reasonableness on a one way or the other issue, that kind of thing. I've banned two people from the Politics forum since June so believe me, those people were really acting the tool. And when a response to an infraction is abusive, it's properly abusive. I don';t need to go into the kind of content, virtually every moderator on this site has had some of those messages. But I'll tell you this: despite the number of "sorry about that" messages I receive, I'm pleasantly surprised every single time.
Muffler raised the most useful point of the past 20-odd posts, the issue of where a member makes an allegation against a moderator on a Help Desk thread that's totally unfounded and malicious (and the two ingredients are important), leaving the moderator without a right to reply. That's a problem. That's the relevant stuff I'd like to talk about right now but that's just my preference. Don't worry, it doesn't mean you can't talk about whatever the devil you want to talk about, I'm just more interested in solutions as that's my way. Now, for the small number of you who are more interested in analysing the word "of", that's your opener. Straight lines, not circles.
edit: the "dark side... side of light... I brought cookies" thing seems to be less than understandable. It's a reference to that "come over to the dark side... we have cookies". While many I'm sure will have understood the reference, apologies to anyone who didn't. Of.0 -
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Glad to see the Admins have been let off the leashI'm not accusing anyone of anything.
But to answer you, themselves.
Three Admins come along at once would suggest I'm right.
suggest you're right about what? You're basically saying that the admins had been told not to reply. I'd like to know who you think told them that. Stand over your posts!0 -
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