Am I legal to drive (towing)?

spanner555

Okay folks,

I've spent the last few hours going through these threads on rules of the road/license required, regarding towing.

There seem to be so many different opinions. ie; you can tow up to maximum combined weight of 3500kg, provided the towing vehicle is heavier than what is being towed. Or to quote directly from

http://www.rotr.ie/your-licence-and-vehicle/driving-licences-and-vehicle-categories/provisional-driving-licence.html#trailers

If you hold a Full category B licence, you may tow a trailer only if:

the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer is 750kg or less, or
the unladen (empty) weight of your towing vehicle is at least the same as the trailer's design gross vehicle weight, and the combined design gross vehicle weight of the vehicle and trailer is no more than 3,500kg.
When using a car to tow a heavier trailer, you must hold a category EB licence.

However, I've been hearing some stories from lads getting grief from the law because they don't have the right license, ie EB license.

I'm gonna be a bit selfish here, and just give details that apply to my particular situation, and just get yeer opinion.

I drive a mazda b2500 crew cab 4x4 1740kg. I tow an 18ft sportsboat on a braked single axle trailer. The boat weighs 1050kg, and trailer weighs definitely no more than 300kg.
In all gives a total of 3090kg. (ie less than 3500kg, with towing vehicle heavier than towed load)
However the trailer is rated for up to 2000kg according to label. (which when added to towing vehicle weight, exceeds 3500kg)

I have a regular B license for almost 15 years. Can I tow this load legally?

What really gets me is my wife did her driving test around the same time as myself, and when applying for her license, ticked the box for EB, and was given it, no questions asked!!

galwaytt

..imho, you can tow up to the actual limit, i.e., it's irrelevant what rate your trailer is, it's how much weight you're ACTUALLY towing. That's what weighbridges are for.

As a comparison, your car CAN do more than 120kph, but you're not allowed to. Doesn't make you/the car outside the law.

If you like, go to an official DoE weighbridge, and get a docket for the weight of your truck + trailer c/w boat (and have the details of the veh's on the docket), and carry it in the glovebox. QED, then, methinks.

macplaxton

My take on it (doing a search brings up similar - BrianD3 seems to know his stuff on it :

spanner555 wrote: »

If you hold a Full category B licence, you may tow a trailer only if:

the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer is 750kg or less,

spanner555 wrote: »

or
the unladen (empty) weight of your towing vehicle is at least the same as the trailer's design gross vehicle weight, and the combined design gross vehicle weight of the vehicle and trailer is no more than 3,500kg.

1) "design gross vehicle weight of the trailer" = the GVW of the trailer, not the unladen weight.
2) "unladen (empty) weight of your towing vehicle" = the unladen (unloaded / kerb weight) weight of the vehicle pulling.

spanner555 wrote: »

I drive a mazda b2500 crew cab 4x4 1740kg (UW). I tow an 18ft sportsboat on a braked single axle trailer. The boat weighs 1050kg, and trailer weighs definitely no more than 300kg.
In all gives a total of 3090kg. (ie less than 3500kg, with towing vehicle heavier than towed load)
However the trailer is rated for up to 2000kg (GVW) according to label. (which when added to towing vehicle weight, exceeds 3500kg)

1740kg + 2000kg = 3740kg therefore EB licence required.

spanner555 wrote: »

I have a regular B license for almost 15 years. Can I tow this load legally?

No, but see below.

spanner555 wrote: »

What really gets me is my wife did her driving test around the same time as myself, and when applying for her license, ticked the box for EB, and was given it, no questions asked!!

The cut-off date for automatically granting of category EB following a category B pass appears to be 15 November 1999 (my reading of S.I. No. 352/1999 — Road Traffic (Licensing of Drivers) Regulations, 1999). If you passed your test before then, I would look into having your licence corrected and category EB added. It may have been dropped because of not ticking a box, even though you are entitle to it - see last paragraph of this post. (BTW, 3090kg appears to be well within the maximum train weight of the Mazda.)

Wishbone Ash

macplaxton wrote: »

The cut-off date for automatically granting of category EB following a category B pass appears to be 15 November 1999

I think it was revoked way before that possibly with SI 285 in 1989.

OP - you'd also have to factor in the weight of the driver and any passengers in the towing vehicle.

tin79

Guys its got nothing to do with the actual weight of the car and trailer so going to a weighbridge means nothing.

Brian D3 does know his stuff alright.

The first thing you need to check is the GVW of your car or jeep. The car my father uses to tow is a family saloon and the GVW is 1900kg. He also tows with a trooper and its GVW is around 2400kg.

Given the size of the b2500 might that 1740kg actually be the unladen weight (seems too low for a GVW of a jeep).

The actual weight of the trailer and the boat doesnt matter either. The GVW of the trailer is what matters. To take an 18 footer I would guess the GVW of the trailer is no less than 1500kg.

GVW of trailer is less than unladen weight of the jeep (even if the GVW is 1740kg) so thats ok.

But the GVW of jeep + GVW of trailer would be getting close to the 3500kg mark.

If you can get the GVW of the jeep from the manual and get the GVW of the trailer off the trailer plate and add them up. If they are over 3500kg then you need an EB. I am gonna take a guess and say you will be a bit over 3500kg.

With the trooper (at 2400kg) and a 16 foot trailer at 1050kg GVW my dad is only just ok to tow on a B licence at a total GVW of 3450kg (though he does actually have an EB anyway).

tin79

Duh sorry just saw your trailer is rated to 2000kg so thats the GVW. As macplaxton said you are over the B limit. EB needed.

The GVW of the trailer is also higher than your stated GVW of 1740kg for the jeep and so would be well over the unladen weigh of the jeep so you are out there too. EB needed.

spanner555

thanks for the input folks.

I might just try the licensing office for the craic, and see what they say. I got my license in 95.

It's a bit of a disaster that the trailer says its rated for up to 2000kg. The fact is it will never have anything other than the 1050kg boat on it, as nothing else would fit it.

tin79

the GVW of the trailer needs to account for everything thats on it though including the weight of the trailer itself.

If the trailer is 300kg and the boat is 1050, plus engine on the boat, fuel and fuel tanks, anchors, chain etc might add a bit more so thats why the GVW of the trailer needs to be 2000kg.

one boat we tow weighs just 360kg but we need a 750kg trailer to take the extras. Another boat is 550kg and we need a 1050kg trailer. if you put a 1000 kg boat on a 1000kg trailer the trailer wouldnt last long

a boat with a weight of around half the GVW trailer seems to be the norm

Wishbone Ash

spanner555 wrote: »

It's a bit of a disaster that the trailer says its rated for up to 2000kg. The fact is it will never have anything other than the 1050kg boat on it, as nothing else would fit it.

While I can see your point, you have to understand that the Licencing authorities have to factor in the potential use of all vehicles regardles of the actual use. If I want to drive around in an empty 55 seat coach, I need a D licence as it has more than 16 seats. I can't argue that I don't intend to carry any passengers.

spanner555

good spot tin79.

when I looked at the manual for the b2500, its dgvw is 2825kg. That then only allows you to tow a max of 675kg, before you go over the 3500kg mark.

Looks like I'll have to get the wife to drive me around.
(now theres an accident waiting to happen!!):D

macplaxton

spanner555 wrote: »

good spot tin79. when I looked at the manual for the b2500, its dgvw is 2825kg. That then only allows you to tow a max of 675kg, before you go over the 3500kg mark.

Just to be clear:

Licence is one thing, vehicle is another.

If you have the b2500, loaded and ready to pull at 2775kg then you can plonk 50kg of trailer nose-weight on the vehicle to bring it to max out at 2825kg. You could pull a 750kg unbraked trailer behind it no bother under condition (a) provided the vehicle had a train weight of at least 3575kg.

e.g. 3500kg fully loaded transit + 750kg DGVW trailer = 4250kg train = B licence.

1750kg unladen car + 1750kg DGVW trailer = 3500kg = B licence.

But a 1750kg unladen car, is unlikely to have a train weight of 3500kg, so while the second example works on paper, it probably wouldn't work in practice.

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I think it was revoked way before that possibly with SI 285 in 1989.

Good point WBA, I haven't a clue, but whilst searching I was having trouble finding a date, so was making an educated guess that the 2DLD had something to do with it.

spanner555

Hmm that would seem right macplaxton.

In that case, I could almost be closer to legal if I used my ford mondeo to tow the boat.

However as you say that's on paper. The mondeo would be under pressure with that load.

macplaxton

Another idea, given what you're towing. Could you not get the trailer replated?

spanner555

I think considering the jeep is 2825kg, re-plating the trailer isn't going to help me much as it will still be well over 750kg and gross weight well over 3500kg.
oh well.

macplaxton

Eh? The UNLADEN weight of the Mazda is 1740kg?

spanner555

Yeah thats the unladen weight, 1740kg. But if you are to take advantage of the maximum of 3500kg rule, it talks about the design gross vehicle weight, dgvw, which according to jeeps logbook is 2825kg.
from rotr;
If you hold a Full category B licence, you may tow a trailer only if:

the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer is 750kg or less, or
the unladen (empty) weight of your towing vehicle is at least the same as the trailer's design gross vehicle weight, and the combined[/B] design gross vehicle weight[/B] of the vehicle and trailer is no more than 3,500kg.

macplaxton

Yep sorry forgot to add tha dgvw at the end.

back to plan 1