Student's Union Gen. Meeting

pervertedcoffee

Is on Wednesday Week 3. http://ulsu.ie/ents/ugm <-- More info.

So everyone, as you've all been super helpful in the past I thought I'd take advantage again. I am writing an article (for 'An Focal') on, what has been loosely termed, student apathy.

Basically no one can figure out exactly why students don't turn up to the UGM and I'm asking you your opinions. Its something I genuinely care about so I would like if you put some thought into it - of course, no pressure. Some general ideas that you might expand on...

• I don't feel my presence at the UGM matters.
• The UGM has notable affect on my day-to-day student life, or my student life in general.
• Nothing important happens at the UGM.
• It's boring.
• I don't feel the SU is worthwhile/is effective/etc.

I know this has been a contentious issue on the board before so y'know, don't lose the head. I'm looking for well expressed, thoughtful opinions, not slagging! If anyone would like me to quote them, please PM me or say so in your comment; otherwise quotes will be anonymous or paraphrased, but I'm not going to twist what anyone says, of course.

Thank you.

entropic

I have always found the general union meetings to be boring and long winded, the officer reports are just a bite size version of their An Focal articles. Then when there is a motion or item that would bring up an interesting debate the chair generally says no more time because they spent so much time on the other stuff. Which generally means that the only people who got to make points or debate a fact are the class reps or C&S members that the chair is familiar with.
The Union appears to be functioning fine without the need to act like a company and have incessantly corporate like meetings to feed their p.admin fantasies.
The meeting should have more of a senate air about them and be focused on debate about motions rather than presentation of accounts and jobs done. The general student body are sitting in these lecture halls listening for the most part of their degree and so maybe an actual forum to discuss items might attract them more than magicians and cookies.

ninty9er

entropic wrote: »

I have always found the general union meetings to be boring and long winded, the officer reports are just a bite size version of their An Focal articles. Then when there is a motion or item that would bring up an interesting debate the chair generally says no more time because they spent so much time on the other stuff. Which generally means that the only people who got to make points or debate a fact are the class reps or C&S members that the chair is familiar with.
The Union appears to be functioning fine without the need to act like a company and have incessantly corporate like meetings to feed their p.admin fantasies.
The meeting should have more of a senate air about them and be focused on debate about motions rather than presentation of accounts and jobs done. The general student body are sitting in these lecture halls listening for the most part of their degree and so maybe an actual forum to discuss items might attract them more than magicians and cookies.

I'd love it if everyone said I didn't have to do an officer report :D

In fairness though, you can feel free to take issue with any of the constitutional requirements and bring them to the meeting, hint hint:cool:

bazkennedy

entropic i get your point but unfortunately the students union is a company and this is a legal requirement- it has to happen

entropic

bazkennedy wrote: »

entropic i get your point but unfortunately the students union is a company and this is a legal requirement- it has to happen

I know they have to have these meetings by law and that certain things must be shown/done but the way the meetings are held are not going to entice the general student body to attend. It is not an easy thing to change the format and what is done to make these interesting but until they do I am not sure that quorum will ever be met.

breedie

When I first went to college (Galway) in the bad old 80s I was very involved with the SU and was surprised with the student apathy when I started in UL in 03. I think the OP has just about covered it with his points but some other factors might be contributing to this. The SU has a lovely modern separate building but that's what it has become - separate. It can even be a bit intimidating to walk through those doors into what appears to be a 'private members club' complete with reception. The canteen is used when an election is in the offing but then the officers seem to disappear into their offices and 'you can get them there if you want them'. I understand that reports have to be issued but could this not be distributed via e-mail before meetings so that a more general discussion could take place? Could the officers not hold 'clinics' in the different buildings around UL even once a month so students are aware they exist and what they do or even look like? Perhaps a campaign on an issue that makes students angry (we were lucky in the 80s - we had fees!) but are they even angry about anything? Do you know? I think if you want the students then you're going to have to go out there and get them. They seem to think they have no need of you.

DJCR

Bordom, longevity and uselessness!!

Whille a neccesary part of the ULSU it really doesn't achieve much. The last one didn't even hit quorum.

If we want students to attend it has to reflect what students care about which at the moment it doesn't. It just doesn't appeal and I fear it is something no amout of freebees will fix.

Find an issue students really care about, put it on the adgena and advertise it like mad!!!!

I mean, the average student will not be bothered what week the elections take place but the would care about say if RAG week was to be cancelled, if the union was discussing the future of the co-op office (ie. what are we going to do about co-op), FYP supervision (get student feedback, ask for ideas, come to a census on what could happen), Charity "RAG" week (how are we going to raise a record amount of money?) Anonymous Marking being another, what the plans are for Charity week and if anyone has ideas (make it a charity for the students by the students - I mean, why rebrand the same thing only once? etc. Not only would these issues raise interest in the AGM it would make the general student population feel more involved.

Zeouterlimits

Considering how rudely some people were treated in an attempt to meet quorum last year I'm not going.
Was ridiculous.

ninty9er

Zeouterlimits wrote: »

Considering how rudely some people were treated in an attempt to meet quorum last year I'm not going.
Was ridiculous.

Care to elaborate? I'm sure we don't want to be doing the same, but rudeness is a matter of opinion, so we need to know how exactly people were treated.

entropic

Zeouterlimits wrote: »

Considering how rudely some people were treated in an attempt to meet quorum last year I'm not going.
Was ridiculous.

Would that something to do with last years CSO and some annoyed gamers in room3 who wouldn't go and support the union, despite being the group that use the common room and facilities more than most, would it?

ninty9er

Bump!

bazkennedy

time and place? Topics for discussion?

cheers

ninty9er

Venue still to be confirmed by SAA:rolleyes:

Included in the meeting

• Questions for Officers
• Ratification of unopposed officers
• Discussion on Pitches/Sports Facilities
• Constitutional amendments on
  • Dates sabbatical officers take office
  • Election of Faculties Officer
  • Sabbatical salaries
  • Moving the final date for elections to after Charity Week
  • Transferring functions of Community Relations Officer to Campaigns and Services Officer
  • Creation of non-sabbatical Fundraising Officer
  • Assigning responsibilty for non-sabbaticals to a sabbatical officer.
  • Amending functions for constitution
  • Fairtrade campus
• Ratification of Accounts
• Appointing of Auditors
• Any other business (anyone can bring anything up under this)

If anyone has anything they want us to do, this is your chance to have it backed and done.

constantg

DJCR wrote: »

Bordom, longevity and uselessness!!

Whille a neccesary part of the ULSU it really doesn't achieve much. The last one didn't even hit quorum.

Actually Dave, if you'd care to check your memory, I think you'll find that last year's UGM did reach quorom. You should know, you were supposed to be there as Faculties' Officer after all.....

Zeouterlimits

entropic wrote: »

Would that something to do with last years CSO and some annoyed gamers in room3 who wouldn't go and support the union, despite being the group that use the common room and facilities more than most, would it?

Yes. Some, like myself had planned on going, others not, their choice, right or wrong.
That choice was taken away from them, childishly and unfairly.

entropic

Is there anywhere to get the details of the constitutional changes that are happening? Looked on the website but couldn't find them there.

DJCR

constantg wrote: »

Actually Dave, if you'd care to check your memory, I think you'll find that last year's UGM did reach quorom. You should know, you were supposed to be there as Faculties' Officer after all.....

Actually, I was referring to the AGM last semester.:cool::cool::cool: - which if memory serves (and I'm sure it serves me well thank you very much :D) is accurate!!!

Also, I was at the UGM last year so I suppose (and by suppose I mean I'm 600% cetain) I was well aware that it had hit quorom!! - It was neccesary as there was lots to do!!

Mossin

My only qualm is about the timing of the UGM.

There isnt a hope that me or my classmates can make 2pm on a Wed, and I know other people in the same boat. Why couldnt it take place at like 6pm?

Also, at council last Tuesday, the Sabbats were all encouraging people to go to the Assist Suicide training [which you cant miss any of and its from like 9-5] and yet they want students to attend the UGM also...Sorry guys, cant be in 2 places at once. Doesnt work like that!

constantg

Also, I was at the UGM last year so I suppose (and by suppose I mean I'm 600% cetain) I was well aware that it had hit quorom!! - It was neccesary as there was lots to do!!

Watch the man dig upwards :P

As for the AGM Dave, lets face it, it is always seen as a warning shot that you have to really push for the UGM quorom. The flaming things used to be held in the stables at lunchtime for christ's sake!! And before that in a back room of the stables during a concert :P

I believe we've progressed a little at least

Mossin, the venue/time is for historical reasons. The Union has always claimed wednesday afternoons as their own for Clubs and Socs to go do their thing. Historically the university has usually said S**G OFF!! So the union tends to hold important things on wednesdays as it is traditionally a light day for the majority of students.

If you have problems with the assist training, then I'd say approach a sabbat, they're usually a good lot about it and you might be able to submit apologies for the UGM.

ergonomics

entropic wrote: »

Is there anywhere to get the details of the constitutional changes that are happening? Looked on the website but couldn't find them there.

I will admit, that was a complete oversight and something I never thought about. The changes will be discussed at the UGM but I will come back in about an hour and detail them all here too! Sorry about that.

Mossin wrote: »

My only qualm is about the timing of the UGM.

There isnt a hope that me or my classmates can make 2pm on a Wed, and I know other people in the same boat. Why couldnt it take place at like 6pm?

Also, at council last Tuesday, the Sabbats were all encouraging people to go to the Assist Suicide training [which you cant miss any of and its from like 9-5] and yet they want students to attend the UGM also...Sorry guys, cant be in 2 places at once. Doesnt work like that!

We spent a lot of time debating the time of the UGM. 10am, 1pm, 6pm, 9pm, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday; at every single time there will be people who can't attend.

The date for ASIST was set months ago, as was the date for the UGM. We know people can't be in both places at once but you're all adults and you can all make decisions yourself. You decide if you want to go to one, the other or neither. The UGM and ASIST training are both very important in their own ways so it's up to you which one to attend, but obviously we'd prefer if you attend one at least!

Mossin

ergonomics wrote: »

We spent a lot of time debating the time of the UGM. 10am, 1pm, 6pm, 9pm, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday; at every single time there will be people who can't attend.

The date for ASIST was set months ago, as was the date for the UGM. We know people can't be in both places at once but you're all adults and you can all make decisions yourself. You decide if you want to go to one, the other or neither. The UGM and ASIST training are both very important in their own ways so it's up to you which one to attend, but obviously we'd prefer if you attend one at least!

I understand that you try to get the time that will suit most people, but I cant fathom how 2pm on any day of the week is the most suitable...surely later in the day would be better, but I'll take your word for it that I'd be wrong.

The fact is, because I have class, I cant attend either the UGM or ASIST training

sceptre

So where's it on then?

DJCR

constantg wrote: »

Watch the man dig upwards :P

As for the AGM Dave, lets face it, it is always seen as a warning shot that you have to really push for the UGM quorom. The flaming things used to be held in the stables at lunchtime for christ's sake!! And before that in a back room of the stables during a concert :P

I believe we've progressed a little at least

All you say is unfortuntely true. But how many warning shots are needed!!! I think the Back room of the stables for a concert was a good idea ..... just not big enough!!!!! (one of the reasons the Union stoped having them in the stables was because they were pissing off people who had no interest that usually went there).

Things have to change, why not make it a huge concert - get some decent bands in in the court yard - opening act - agm - closing act!!!

People buy tickets to see the acts and they are there for the UGM as well - have the UGM on the tickets as well, no tricks + find issues that matter to normal students!! - While selling the tickets hand out the agenda as well, students may get interested!!!

Now, I'm gonna go bury my head in the sand while I wait for the responses to this post :p:p:p

ergonomics

entropic wrote: »

Is there anywhere to get the details of the constitutional changes that are happening? Looked on the website but couldn't find them there.

I have attached a copy of the UGM and will briefly explain the changes.

7.1 - This is just changing the date that the Sabbat Elections must be held by.

7.2 - This is incorporating the work of the Community Relations Officer into that of the Campaigns and Services Officer. In other words, there will no longer be a CRO.

7.3 - This change just clarifies who is responsible for the Equality Officer and who the Equality Office is answerable to.

7.4 - Clarifies how the Faculties Officer is elected.

7.5 - Sabbat wages used to be reviewed at every UGM. This change says that only increases need to go to the UGM. Decreases in wages can be done without UGM approval.

7.6 - Adding in a line that says Polling Stations can be closed early if all Campaign Managers agree to do this.

7.7 - Creating a new non-Sabbat position of Fundraising Officer. It also lists their job description.

7.8 - Class Reps Council can update/remove/create policies but can't change the Schedules in the Constitution which list these policies. We want to change the Preamble to say Class Reps Council can change the Schedules.

7.9 - Clarifies when Sabbatical Officers leave office and when the new ones take up office.

7.10 - This motion was brought by the students and calls on the SU to promote a Fair Trade campus.

DJCR

Thanks for that Ergo.

BUT:-

7.4 doesn't clarify how the Faculties officer is elected ........ it changes it!!!

Ms. Education

DJCR wrote: »

Thanks for that Ergo.

BUT:-

7.4 doesn't clarify how the Faculties officer is elected ........ it changes it!!!

That's incorrect, it does not change how the Faculties Officer is elected because the Faculties Officer is not technically elected. He or she is nominated. The amendment puts in writing what has been practice in the Union for years. I'm surprised you in particular weren't aware of this considering the position you held. The only thing this amendment seeks to do is clarify the matter.

billy the squid

we appear to be lacking a quorum. Doesn'r look like it from where i am

DJCR

Ms. Education wrote: »

That's incorrect, it does not change how the Faculties Officer is elected because the Faculties Officer is not technically elected. He or she is nominated. The amendment puts in writing what has been practice in the Union for years. I'm surprised you in particular weren't aware of this considering the position you held. The only thing this amendment seeks to do is clarify the matter.

Common Practice

1) Faculties Officers are elected

2) They go outside the room and choose among themselves who is to be the faculties officer. In the case of two or more candidates voting usually ensues among the officers.

3a) In the event of a tie the Education Officer has the casting vote.
3b) If the Education Officer doesn't wish to make the casting vote - Can be for a number of reasons:
a) They have no preference
b) They wish to be democratic and leave it to class reps.
c) They have an obvious preference (don't know the others, good friend has been elected to faculty officer) and impartiality would be impossible or questioned when the results came out.

4) Faculties officer announced to class reps or voting (election/nomination) ensues.

Changes to this by the amendment being proposed:

1)The result will not be immediately announced to class reps. (meeting of education working group within 24 hours)

2) The Education working group itself is independant from Class Reps - others can join it.... see minutes from other education working group meetings ie. Irish Officer, Health Science Rep etc
- This leads to the issue of some faculties being more represented than others, group voting could ensue etc

3) In the event the Working group can't decide it would take 2 weeks for class reps to be able to vote on who they want to send to the exec. (A little time consuming - this year if this happened there would be no Faculties Officer till week 6 as the election for Faculties officer occured in week four.

So in short, the proposal could make the election/nomination of faculties officer, slower (having to wait 2 weeks for class reps to vote if neccesary) and less fair (Weighting among the Faculties in the EWG). ie. it changes it!!!

bazkennedy

So how did the meeting go? Was there quorum? If so were any of the motions passed?

pervertedcoffee

Quorum wasn't met...I'm very disappointed...

bazkennedy

pervertedcoffee wrote: »

Quorum wasn't met...I'm very disappointed...

That's a shame