Legal obligation

galwaytt

seamus wrote: »

For the purposes of this thread, we'll assume that the OP was the one who connected the cables, which means that technically the other guy didn't *have* to know how to safely jump start a car.
The OP.

...in which case the OP doesn't have to believe a word he says, as he (French guy) doesn't know what's wrong, or, what actually caused it - OP included.

tipp86 wrote: »

Ok i went over it with the Gf and she said his car went dead after i connected the leads wrongly.

His car then would not start up.

This happened 3 weeks ago hence why im hazy

I'm confused. If his car stopped, after you jumped yours - how did he ...go away ?

Did he not jump out of his car, shouting (possibly) 'Merde' ?

What's he been driving for 3 weeks, if not the Renault ?

Tigger

Onkle wrote: »

If I'm jumpstarting somebody *I* connect the cables. I'm not going to let stranger attach cables to my car and possibly do damage

what if you damage thier car

(probable answer ) i wont cause i know how to do it

qed

alexmcred

You ****ed his car and are not telling him to piss off when he comes back looking for payment for damage you have done. Karma is a wonderful thing btw.

no1beemerfan

galwaytt wrote: »

I'm confused. If his car stopped, after you jumped yours - how did he ...go away ?

Excellent question.....

Tigger

from my reading thats where he lives

partyguinness

OP...deny everything...:D...or it will cost you. If you want to pay up..then bend over, lube up so we can all have a go.

As someone said earlier, Renaults are a piece of crap when it comes to electronics.

ps I have no morals whatsoever. In fact I had to double check the spelling of the word.

BlackWizard

Onkle wrote: »

If I'm jumpstarting somebody *I* connect the cables. I'm not going to let stranger attach cables to my car and possibly do damage

I'm thinking of a Clark Griswald type of guy attaching cables to all different parts of your car.

"And one for the tyre for good luck..."

tipp86

tipp86 wrote: »

Ok i went over it with the Gf and she said his car went dead after i connected the leads wrongly.

How the hell could you forget that, you went from not knowing who did it to be 70% certain it was you and now you come up with this, you don't seem a particularly honest chap to be honest. I reckon you should come to some agreement with him. If I was in his positon you'd be watching your back very carefully.

no1beemerfan

Onkle wrote: »

If I'm jumpstarting somebody *I* connect the cables. I'm not going to let stranger attach cables to my car and possibly do damage

I won't even let anyone put petrol in my car!

seamus

galwaytt wrote: »

...in which case the OP doesn't have to believe a word he says, as he (French guy) doesn't know what's wrong, or, what actually caused it - OP included.

Causality to be fair. Guy drives up, engine is on, jump leads are connected, engine goes dead, won't come back on. It's pretty indisputable that connecting the leads caused it or just the most unbelieveable case of timing ever.

Anan1

partyguinness wrote: »

OP...deny everything...:D...or it will cost you. If you want to pay up..then bend over, lube up so we can all have a go.

As someone said earlier, Renaults are a piece of crap when it comes to electronics.

ps I have no morals whatsoever. In fact I had to double check the spelling of the word.

Banned for a week for trolling.

dirtydiesel

Find it hard to believe a €1000 worth of damage has been caused

tipp86

galwaytt wrote: »

...in which case the OP doesn't have to believe a word he says, as he (French guy) doesn't know what's wrong, or, what actually caused it - OP included.


I'm confused. If his car stopped, after you jumped yours - how did he ...go away ?

Did he not jump out of his car, shouting (possibly) 'Merde' ?

What's he been driving for 3 weeks, if not the Renault ?

He lived there, no idea what hes been doing without car.

Tigger wrote: »

from my reading thats where he lives

Correct

daveharnett

The hell with legal obligation, he did the decent thing and gave you the use of his car to help you out. You then made a hash of it and broke his car. Man up and put it right.

Darsad

tipp86 wrote: »

Um well the person is just some french guy who lives near my gfs college appartment so there is no connection !

Ah well that explains it everything on their cars is the opposite way round to our cars !

Cuddlesworth

partyguinness wrote: »

Yes generally that is true....It can be better not to do anyting...once you start helping someone you now have a legal duty of care to that person.

Example, if you see someone drowning in the river and you do nothing. You cant be touched.

If you try to save them and make a balls of it..you are potentially liable for their death or damages.

Generally you cannot be guilty of an omission as opposed to comission.

Yes you can be touched. In fact its considered a form of murder. Unless you live in the US. But if you fail while trying and not putting your own life at risk then you can't be sued.

I would suggest you ask a lawyer about the Good Samaritan law and Europe's interpretation of it.

ianobrien

dirtydiesel wrote: »

Find it hard to believe a €1000 worth of damage has been caused

If it's a LHD 10year old Clio, the 1000 is very generous, as the book value of that is zero. If it's a '09 Renaultsport Clio, then 1000 could be very little. It all depends on the value of the Clio.

How much is an ECU for a Clio, dealer fitted?

If the OP pays out the value of the Clio, I'd imagine that the OP can then push to get the Clio.

Just a bright idea. Does the Clio have a "main" fuse, and could it be blown? I remember a buddy of mine bought a Civic for 300euro because of "total electrical failure". One of the main fuses was blown, and for less than a euro, the car was fixed (and he didn't tell the former owner either)

Communicationb

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Yes you can be touched. In fact its considered a form of murder. Unless you live in the US. But if you fail while trying and not putting your own life at risk then you can't be sued.

I would suggest you ask a lawyer about the Good Samaritan law and Europe's interpretation of it.

we share the same common law principals as the US not mainland Europe which is a Civil Code system. The so called "Good Samaritan Law" has no relevance or recognition in Ireland.

tipp86

ianobrien wrote: »

If it's a LHD 10year old Clio, the 1000 is very generous, as the book value of that is zero. If it's a '09 Renaultsport Clio, then 1000 could be very little. It all depends on the value of the Clio.

Yes its over 10 years easily.

langdang

The OP's story is a too hazy for me to comment on it except for agreeing with galwaytt - refer him on to Smokie http://blogs.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=2055812139

But in general let this be a warning to people, if you are jumpstarting use your own cables, make the connections yourself and know how to do it right.
And pass this warning onto your girlfriends/wives etc - tell em not to accept an offer of a jumpstart from a randomer. Just because a helpful samaritan is confident he knows what he's doing- it doesn't mean he's aware there's a wrong way to do it and what can happen if it's done wrong!
Just call whatever roadside rescue thing is part of their insurance.

galwaytt

daveharnett wrote: »

... You then made a hash of it and broke his car. ...

Allegedly. That's the problem. Until such time as someone tells us EXACTLY what's wrong with the Clio, and how come it took 3 weeks for this to manifest itself, it's all conjecture.

Anan1

galwaytt wrote: »

Allegedly. That's the problem. Until such time as someone tells us EXACTLY what's wrong with the Clio, and how come it took 3 weeks for this to manifest itself, it's all conjecture.

My understanding is that the Clio died immediately when the OP connected the jump leads incorrectly, that it has been dead since, and that it's owner has been told that it will cost €1000 to repair?

firefly08

If B had reason to believe that A was a mechanic or was otherwise suitably qualified/experienced to do what he was doing, then B would have a relatively good case against him

I think there is a subtle mistake here: if A was suitable qualified, then the only way he could have damaged the car was through malice or extreme negligence - which would be a crime, no?

If he damaged it by accident, then he obviously wasn't suitably qualified, and B's opinion was mistaken. Who'd be responsible for that?

Otherwise I think the law is completely unjust. Someone else's opinion regarding your suitability or qualification for a particular task does not make you more responsible than the next guy.

The OP may have really believed he knew how to do the jump start, but may have been wrong (OP: this is a hypothetical statement!).

If I'm jumpstarting somebody *I* connect the cables. I'm not going to let stranger attach cables to my car and possibly do damage

Exactly. That's the responsible attitude IMO.

galwaytt

galwaytt wrote: »

Allegedly. That's the problem. Until such time as someone tells us EXACTLY what's wrong with the Clio, and how come it took 3 weeks for this to manifest itself, it's all conjecture.

The OP had told us
- he connected the cables incorrectly
- the clio cut out and would not restart

Where is the conjecture, read the thread me thinks

stimpson

If I was the Frenchman I would take you to the Small Claims court. It would cost him very little, and it sounds like he'd probably win. Regardless of how much you think his car is worth, he deserves to have it fixed. He was doing you a favour after all.

If I was you I'd get a second opinion on the cost of repairs, then man up and get his car fixed.

Glad I read this - it will make me think twice about jump starting a strangers car in future.

who the fug

FFS

Call you parents or friends they should know a back street garage to fix the bleeding electrics for 200 yokes.


Get off thine posterior and make an effort to set things right

tipp86

RoverJames wrote: »

The OP had told us
- he connected the cables incorrectly
- the clio cut out and would not restart

Where is the conjecture, read the thread me thinks

This sums it up really.

As for small claims court as long as he is going to ask for a crazy price im not exactly going to admit i connected the wires.

stimpson

tipp86 wrote: »

This sums it up really.

As for small claims court as long as he is going to ask for a crazy price im not exactly going to admit i connected the wires.

Ohh perjury. Interesting tactic!

no1beemerfan

Tipp86

Do you know anyone in the motor trade/indy mechanic?

You should be able to get the parts off breakers yards and be able to get someone to put it right.

€1,000 is way over the top to fix the car but IMO you morally should do something to repair it.

Gary ITR

tipp86 wrote: »

This sums it up really.

As for small claims court as long as he is going to ask for a crazy price im not exactly going to admit i connected the wires.

So it looks to me like you broke his car. Did he offer to jump you or did you ask?

Stoolbend

So someone stopped to help you.

You connected your jump leads to his car the wrong way around and you're wondering if it's your fault!

You should definitely take at least some responsibility here.

Did you actually try reason with him or just point blank refuse?

It would be fair for him to assume that you knew how to connect jump leads considering you had your own set!

tipp86

Here in is the problem.

If i agree to give something then i am admitting guilt fully am i not.

If you look back to earlier in the thread you will see this been discussed.

Trying to discuss things isnt great as he has limited english.

Anan1

tipp86 wrote: »

Here in is the problem.

If i agree to give something then i am admitting guilt fully am i not.

If you look back to earlier in the thread you will see this been discussed.

Trying to discuss things isnt great as he has limited english.

You are guilty. He was trying to help you, you made a mistake, and you broke his car. Why don't you do the decent thing and put the damage right? As has been said before, you can make some enquiries and see if you can have the car repaired for less than €1000.

Tigger

ianobrien wrote: »

If it's a LHD 10year old Clio, the 1000 is very generous, as the book value of that is zero. If it's a '09 Renaultsport Clio, then 1000 could be very little. It all depends on the value of the Clio.

How much is an ECU for a Clio, dealer fitted?

If the OP pays out the value of the Clio, I'd imagine that the OP can then push to get the Clio.

Just a bright idea. Does the Clio have a "main" fuse, and could it be blown? I remember a buddy of mine bought a Civic for 300euro because of "total electrical failure". One of the main fuses was blown, and for less than a euro, the car was fixed (and he didn't tell the former owner either)

i was wondering about a main fuse also

stevoslice

don't think its been said, but if you can get him a similar car for cheaper than the cost to fix the banjaxed clio, then that would be the route i would take.

can't see how all the electrics are blown, probably the alternator and battery both calved as the current drawn from the short circuit would have been pretty high, and as you say, it was an oldish car.

Del2005

tipp86 wrote: »

Here in is the problem.

If i agree to give something then i am admitting guilt fully am i not.

If you look back to earlier in the thread you will see this been discussed.

Trying to discuss things isnt great as he has limited english.

You are fully guilty as others have said. Get your own mechanic to have a look at his car and give you a price for a repair. The person had a working car before you broke it so he'll need a working car back, it's only fair.

I can't believe that people don't know of the if you break it you fix/own it principle.

alexmcred

You've admitted liability and you've left the link for your bebo in your sig I'm beginning to see how this happened. lol

Pkiernan

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Yes you can be touched. In fact its considered a form of murder.

I would suggest you ask a lawyer about the Good Samaritan law and Europe's interpretation of it.

Absolute nonsense. Some countries in the EU have laws that call for providing first aid, but not "murder" for failing to rescue someone drowning.

Regarding the OP - you damaged someons cars, someone who was knid enough to help you. Man up and pay up.

mickdw

Offer to have his car looked at. Its completely your fault OP. Worst case, you offer him the price of an equal car which would be alot less than 1000.

It is unwise to offer a jump start to anyone if you have a modern car. I dont like the idea of any electrical pressure beyond the normal being forced through my cars electrical systems.

Jo King

Years ago, a car of mine would not start after a bungled jump start. The fusable lead had gone. A mechanic from the AA started itby putting in a piece of wire. I drove it around for a few days before getting it fixed. It cost about 30 quid.
The small claims court will not entertain this dispute as it is not between a business and a customer or between two businesses. It would have to go to the District Court. The claimant would need an engineers report setting out the cause of the failure of the Clio. The car would have to be offered for inspection to the o/p. I don't see it happening.
There is no general duty to rescue in Ireland. The exceptions are where someone has assumed responsibility for another person. E.G. a bedridden parent cannot be allowed to starve in your house. A scout leader cannot abandon a scout who has got into difficulty on an outing.

slimjimmc

firefly08 wrote: »

I think there is a subtle mistake here: if A was suitable qualified, then the only way he could have damaged the car was through malice or extreme negligence - which would be a crime, no?

If he damaged it by accident, then he obviously wasn't suitably qualified, and B's opinion was mistaken. Who'd be responsible for that?

Otherwise I think the law is completely unjust. Someone else's opinion regarding your suitability or qualification for a particular task does not make you more responsible than the next guy.

The OP may have really believed he knew how to do the jump start, but may have been wrong (OP: this is a hypothetical statement!).



Exactly. That's the responsible attitude IMO.

Qualified people make mistakes and do things by accident too, though usually not as many as unqualified people. Malice or extreme negligence are not the only ways for qualified people to cause damage.