Arsenal -v- Man Utd - Match Thread

carlop

redout wrote: »

I am going with this side:

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VDS

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Brown

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Vidic

Rafa

---

Evra

---

Fletcher

---

Anderson

Valencia

---

Park

---

Stroller

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Rooney

Why no Evans? He's been far better than Brown this season, especially in the last month or so.

MagicMarker

Only 18 hours to go

JPA

As neutral, I think United will win.
If anyone cares.

GSPfan

If you said Arsenal, I wouldn't care!

I think we'll see.... Brown - Vidic - Evans - Evra.

A Primal Nut

I think we (arsenal) are weak up front with only Bendtner fit but he's not great. That said we have Fabregas, Arshavin,etc we will never struggle to score goals. But our defence isn't great at the minute. Individually we are ok, but between them all there will always be the odd mistake.

Both teams strong going forward but struggling defensively, should be an exciting game.

kryogen

really comes down to how well vidic and Evans perform for us, I would think the arsenal defence can be got at alright, only matters if we can keep it tight

and of course we have to go out there to try and impose ourselves on arsenal and not let them pass it all over us

GSPfan

You know what.... every Arsenal game I weigh up the form and strengths of the teams and I never believe Arsenal have a chance but they always unsettle United. Even now with a weakened attack and defense. I'd be delighted with a win. I'd tolerate a draw if its well fought.

redout

A Primal Nut wrote: »

I think we (arsenal) are weak up front with only Bendtner fit but he's not great. That said we have Fabregas, Arshavin,etc we will never struggle to score goals. But our defence isn't great at the minute. Individually we are ok, but between them all there will always be the odd mistake.

Both teams strong going forward but struggling defensively, should be an exciting game.

As a United supporter I would give anything for creative players of the calibre of Fabregas and Arshavin. We have nobody at all!

am i bovvered

redout wrote: »

As a United supporter I would give anything for creative players of the calibre of Fabregas and Arshavin. We have nobody at all!

Yes, any team would but I have to say Utd are doing much better than I expected this year, on paper quite a weak team (except rooney) but still getting the results.

GreeBo

redout wrote: »

That was always the sig but it was removed on a couple of occasions by the admin or what not.

Its too big so will get removed again...
Sig Rules

CHD

1-1 imo

A Primal Nut

redout wrote: »

As a United supporter I would give anything for creative players of the calibre of Fabregas and Arshavin. We have nobody at all!

Yeah its great we have so much creativity in Rosicky, Arshavin, Fabregas, Diaby even Song can hit the odd good pass; just such a shame our only top striker missed the whole reason but we can cope without him and overall we are much stronger than United going forward. Individually we aren't far off United defensively but United are usually better organised and Van Der Sar is way better than Almunia. Can't remember the last time Almunia made a world class save.

redout

GreeBo wrote: »

Its too big so will get removed again...
Sig Rules

wtf brother!

OMG some nutcase is at to reducing the height of the pics by 1 pixel!!!!!!!!!

and he only done it two days ago!

Give me a break.

JerryHandbag

CHD wrote: »

1-1 imo

I'd take that now. (unless of course we are a goal up in injury time :pac:)

Boggles

redout wrote: »

As a United supporter I would give anything for creative players of the calibre of Fabregas and Arshavin. We have nobody at all!

You have heard of Giggs havn't you?

He has been at the club nearly 2 decades!!

GSPfan

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Van Der Sar is way better than Almunia. Can't remember the last time Almunia made a world class save.

Can't believe I'm saying this but Almunia had a blinder at Old Trafford in the semi's of the Champions League. He kept the tie alive.

Spiritoftheseventies

GreeBo wrote: »

Its too big so will get removed again...
Sig Rules

back to the drawing board redout. I liked that sig myself. just find something a bit smaller.

eclectichoney

Really looking forward to this - hope it's a great game. I'd take a draw as a United fan. I'm a little worried about Vidic's lack of match fitness and think we'll miss Rio's pace, assurance and calmness at the back. Still though I reckon Fletch will pull yet another immense performance out of the bag today.

1-1 I'll go for: Fabs & Roon

antod

hoping for a draw today ,we will go 4 5 1 and the same game plan we had at chelsea.

amacachi

First time in a long time I've had a good feeling about a big match, think we might manage the win today.

Frisbee

GSPfan wrote: »

Can't believe I'm saying this but Almunia had a blinder at Old Trafford in the semi's of the Champions League. He kept the tie alive.

Yeah but since then he's just looked blind.

Getting very nervous about this now. Almost glad I have a match myself that I can't watch it, but at the same time, really wanna watch it.

Unfortunately I reckon United will nick it by the odd goal in 3, just like earlier in the season.

kryogen

Nice piece by Dion Fanning in the independant.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/divided-by-the-same-obsession-2041289.html




Divided by the same obsession
The Premiership's most enduring rivals are now more alike than they think,


Sunday January 31 2010

Arsene Wenger's preparations for Arsenal's title challenge in 2010 began at the time he was confronting Alex Ferguson in the tunnel at Old Trafford amid a hail of flying pizza and a downpour of soup.

On the afternoon of October 24, 2004, Arsenal lost their 49-game unbeaten record. The t-shirts hailing the 50-match run remained covered up and the defeat was laced with bitterness which it seemed would never go away. At Old Trafford, Manchester United weren't in the mood to provide a guard of honour.

At the beginning of that day, Manchester United seemed in decline. Arsenal had won the title the previous year without losing a game and they had handed the title to United the year before. But United won and the ugly scenes afterwards masked the weaknesses on and off the field at Arsenal.

The Invincibles were broken up and the fact there may be one player from that line-up, Sol Campbell, in the Arsenal team at the Emirates today tells a lot about the philosophy Wenger has been forced to adopt. As Chelsea bulldozed through the league that year, he was already implementing his plan to rebuild Arsenal.

The relationship between Ferguson and Wenger appeared to break into a million pieces that day. "Ferguson is finished, he's lost all sense of reality," Wenger said. "He seeks out confrontation and, when he finds it, he expects the other man to back down."

Ferguson wasn't backing down. "It's unthinkable that a manager wouldn't apologise for the poor behaviour of his players. It's disgraceful but I'm hardly waiting on an apology from Wenger. He's not the type of man to apologise."

The war seemed endless but in reality it was already over. Both teams were in decline, but Arsenal's plans for rebuilding would be more painstaking and have yet to be rewarded with trophies. Wenger insists there are other rewards. He has said that seeing a player make the most of his talent is a reward and perhaps it is, but nobody who has witnessed him after a defeat would believe he has learned to tolerate losing.

"There was this cauldron inside him," the former Arsenal scout Damien Comolli, who went on to work for Spurs, told French writer Xavier Rivoire. "Arsene in a rage is nothing like the image the public have of him. It is precisely the opposite because he is perceived as detached and lacking in passion."

In his rage, as in so many things, he is similar to Ferguson, although the Scot has never attempted to keep it hidden. The conventional wisdom is that, as the threat from Arsenal has diminished, Ferguson can now tolerate Wenger.

Ferguson, who lives for the next confrontation, may have found nothing in Arsenal to be outraged by in recent times, nothing to take a stance over. In that, he may have worried Wenger who has never felt a need to send out a team that avoids confrontation, even if as a person he doesn't look for it.

"I could not bear to sit on the bench with a team who won't play and gives up," he once said. "But, on the other hand, if I was obliged to shut down a game and squeeze the life from it to save my team, I would. But to say at the start of a season: 'This year, we're just going to keep our heads down and out of the firing line'. That's not possible."

Wenger has never run from confrontation while, even now, Ferguson goes looking for it. He may be enraged by Manchester City more than others at the moment and in confronting the United supporters over the Glazers, he has shown a willingness, once again, to make an unpopular case. Yet he will always find time for Arsene. When Wenger talked about Darren Fletcher following the meeting at Old Trafford, Ferguson was quick to slap him down.

He scolded him for the words again last week, a sign that as the teams meet today there could yet be moments when their maturity is lost. Wenger in particular would consider it a price worth paying if it meant Arsenal were contenders again.

Wenger had once been prepared to compete for every top footballer in the world but the squeeze that was put on internally and externally changed that. In 2004, Arsenal were borrowing to build a stadium and Chelsea were spending to build a plutocracy which they would rule. Manchester United could, at that stage, compete, but Arsenal couldn't.

Wenger would back his judgement. He has never really doubted it. If he could not compete for the best players, he would find the best at an early age and mould them into the team he wanted.

There have been moments when it appeared he had found them. Two years ago Arsenal challenged for the title and ended up only four points behind United but last season they seemed to move further away, a reminder that without the resources of Chelsea and now Manchester City, a team like Arsenal is only a couple of injuries away from freefall.

This season is different for so many reasons. Arsenal have stayed in contention despite the injury to Robin van Persie but it remains to be seen if their challenge can be sustained or if they have been aided by the inability of any team to go on a run.

Ferguson will believe his side can do that, even if they are weaker than the side which has won the last three titles. On Wednesday night, United overwhelmed Manchester City thanks to Wayne Rooney primarily and an atmosphere inside Old Trafford that was more a reflection of the manager's personality than has been heard in recent times. United discovered that they can still do defiance.

Faced with opponents who are brash and local, United displayed a collective personality that Ferguson would demand in any team. This was not a Carling Cup game, it was an opportunity to make a statement.

Now Ferguson will look to see if his team can make another one against a side whose pretensions they have always enjoyed dismantling.

Ferguson has always bristled at the idea that Wenger is the sophisticate in their relationship. In fact, Wenger is probably the more obsessive about football. He has an interest in politics but nothing substantial that would force him to spend time away from football.

When he was a young coach, Wenger lived in an apartment with no furniture except a bed. Time spent looking for luxuries like chairs or a table was, he explained, time that could be used looking at footballers. Ferguson may have outside interests but they do not distract him from the need, that must be renewed on a daily basis, of proving Manchester United's greatness. Now he is working with similar restrictions to Wenger. United insisted again yesterday that Ferguson can spend the Ronaldo money when he wishes.

"The cash from the sale of Cristiano Ronaldo is available for Sir Alex to spend and it will be spent on players who are available for purchase and who the manager thinks can improve the squad, not to prove to pundits that it exists," the club said in a statement released to the BBC.

But United and Arsenal are now existing in the same world again and that may yet add to the friction in the relationship between the managers.

The managers too are essential to their clubs' success, especially in Arsenal's case where the players are always in danger of being wooed by better wages and names that are bigger in European terms.

Wenger will want a European Cup, but he will want a Premier League title again so that he can prove there is another way to win, a way he believes in.

He has said that if he had become Arsenal manager 25 years ago, he wouldn't have had the tolerance for the job. It is not a question of mellowing but of knowing which fights to pick. He may have no option with Ferguson and the pair may go on for some time.

"I admire the pianist Rubinstein who is still giving concerts at 83 years of age. I have a horror of retirement and I have a horror of the thought of being in a job I have to give up at a certain moment, despite working at full capacity."

The words could have been Ferguson's but they were Wenger's and again they are united in their obsessive commitment and their desire to keep going.

They have always been divided by their similarities. "Ferguson's only weakness is that he doesn't have one," Wenger said once. Ferguson, in his own way, would probably agree with that.

SlickRic

anyone nervous yet?

being out of the title race ourselves, it's weirdly nice to be able to just enjoy this game.

2-2 for me.

Johner

Best of luck to both teams! Draw please though.

Ah big match nerves will have them next week.

MagicMarker

I don't understand why any UTD fan is hoping for a draw!! This is a must win game, anything less will be extremely detrimental to our campaign.

Frisbee

SlickRic wrote: »

anyone nervous yet?

Massively

L'prof

MagicMarker wrote: »

I don't understand why any UTD fan is hoping for a draw!! This is a must win game, anything less will be extremely detrimental to our campaign.

I'd say it's more that they'd take a draw right now if it was offered!

abouttobebanned

jasonorr wrote: »

I'd say it's more that they'd take a draw right now if it was offered!

No. I think this is the day that Arsenal's season begins to crumble from underneath them.

SlickRic

abouttobebanned wrote: »

No. I think this is the day that Arsenal's season begins to crumble from underneath them.

or takes off, and utd's starts to peter out.

they outplayed utd for much of the OT game remember.

fergie's on record as saying this is the biggest game of their season. he knows it's pretty much at a make-or-break situation for his team too.

magma69

2-2 Draw I reckon. Tough one to call. Would love to see United get stuffed 4-0 or something but that ain't gonna happen. Whoever loses this is really going to find it tough to catch up with Chelsea.

L'prof

abouttobebanned wrote: »

No. I think this is the day that Arsenal's season begins to crumble from underneath them.

Rooney's the only man that can make it happen, we'll see how he plays!

leninbenjamin

SlickRic wrote: »

fergie's on record as saying this is the biggest game of their season. he knows it's pretty much at a make-or-break situation for his team too.

Tbh, Fergie's biggest game of the season is one he wont be fielding a team in... Chelsea v Arsenal will probably go much further towards shaping the run in than today's match.

I'm not really excited about this, these crunch matches always disappoint tbh.

It's a big test for both teams though. United looked to have turned a corner against City, well today will tell us how much that was really the case. Their midfield have an awful lot of questions to answer and there's not a better test of this than Arsenal.

Arsenal still have to demonstrate that they have the mental strength to go after the title. They've come on very well since the humiliating loss against Chelsea, but this is the first big test since. They need the 3 points and they know it, so how will they cope with the pressure now it's back on?

Mars Bar

I haven't felt this nervous since the night before my first LC exam...

Have had goosebumps all morning.

Come on United!!

abouttobebanned

SlickRic wrote: »

or takes off, and utd's starts to peter out.

they outplayed utd for much of the OT game remember.

fergie's on record as saying this is the biggest game of their season. he knows it's pretty much at a make-or-break situation for his team too.

Very true.

Says it all about the game.

deisedevil

SlickRic wrote: »

or takes off, and utd's starts to peter out.

they outplayed utd for much of the OT game remember.

fergie's on record as saying this is the biggest game of their season. he knows it's pretty much at a make-or-break situation for his team too.

It's been a while now since United had a season that petered out. Not gonna happen I don't think.

Frisbee

I'm off now, will have to follow the match on the radio.

C'MON YOU GOONERS!

kryogen

41 posts? how in the holy name of Joe are you posting in here?

United! United! United!

Pepe LeFrits

That's Frisbee.

Frisbee

kryogen wrote: »

41 posts? how in the holy name of Joe are you posting in here?

United! United! United!

I'm Frisbee, still haven't got access back to my main account...

Hank Scorpio

Would love to see an Arsenal win, but i have a weird feeling UTD will sneak it

Mgoraf

Almunia
Sagna
Gallas
Vermaelen
Clichy
Song
Denilson
Fabregas
Rosicky
Bendtner
Arshavin

_blank_

kryogen wrote: »

41 posts? how in the holy name of Joe are you posting in here?

United! United! United!

She did a favour for Dub13

paul150

Thank god the verminator starts, but id say its a big risk playing him if he aint 100%

Pepe LeFrits

From the beeb: 1509: Team news: Thomas Vermaelen starts for Arsenal - Sol Campbell is not even on the bench for the Gunners. Alex Song and Samir Nasri are back in too. Man Utd bring in Park for Ryan Giggs and Wes Brown for Rio Ferdinand, so no Nemanja Vidic either.

eclectichoney

United line up

VDS
raf brown evans evra
nani fletch carrick scholes park
rooney

no vidic and park in. lovely.



bench: berbs, owen, valencia, de laet, gibson, giggs pig

is ando injured???

Mgoraf

VDS
Brown Vidic Evans Evra
Valencia Fletcher Carrick Anderson Nani
Rooney

starbelgrade

Park is playing instead of Giggs & Brown for Vidic. :eek:

JPA

Mgoraf wrote: »

VDS
Brown Vidic Evans Evra
Valencia Fletcher Carrick Anderson Nani
Rooney

That's not the team.

Team news: Thomas Vermaelen starts for Arsenal - Sol Campbell is not even on the bench for the Gunners. Alex Song and Samir Nasri are back in too. Man Utd bring in Park for Ryan Giggs and Wes Brown for Rio Ferdinand, so no Nemanja Vidic either.

Eire-Dearg

I didn't know Bendtner was fit again. He'll add a different dimension to Arsenal's attack, but I still don't think he's good enough to lead the line for htem.

Mgoraf

JPA wrote: »

That's not the team.

Yeh seen it posted elsewhere minute ago. Just seen the official one now..

Anderson not on the bench again