Superthread: 2010 Launch Cars and Pre-Season Testing

11811

lord lucan wrote: »

Lol @ the contraptions on the Ferrari and BMW.:D

Schumacher on the pit wall checking out the opposition already.:D

What exactly are they?

Cookie_Monster

11811 wrote: »

What exactly are they?

for enhanced telemetry?

lord lucan

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

for enhanced telemetry?

That's what i'm assuming myself with the masts on the Ferrari and McLarens. The hoses on the BMW look like they go from the wishbones to the front wing,i've no idea what that's for?!

G-Money

Apparently the new McLaren has been spotted with the flow-vis luminescent paint again to track the airflow.

They say it's normal and doesn't indicate a problem with the aero... I think they were the only team to use it last year as well.

projectmayhem

11811 wrote: »

Unofficial Monday test times from Valencia:
1. Felipe Massa, Ferrari, 1:12.574, 102 Laps
2. Pedro de la Rosa, BMW Sauber, 1:12.784, 74 Laps
3. Michael Schumacher, Mercedes GP, 1:12.947, 40 Laps
4. Nico Rosberg, Mercedes GP, 1:13.543, 39 Laps
5. Gary Paffett, McLaren, 1:13.846, 86 Laps
6. Rubens Barrichello, Williams, 1:14.449, 75 Laps
7. Sebastien Buemi, Toro Rosso, 1:14.762, 18 Laps
8. Robert Kubica, Renault, 1:15.000, 69 Laps

First day out of the box it doesnt look too bad for the F10!
Although granted it is the first day of testing which isn't a huge pile to go on.
Nice to see Schumacher putting a decent time already.

As much as I'd like to believe that's how the season will turn out, I don't think the Sauber with de la Rosa will be the second best car of the season.

Also, do they have to put a full load of fuel in for testing?

grandmaster wrote: »

Apparently the new McLaren has been spotted with the flow-vis luminescent paint again to track the airflow.

They say it's normal and doesn't indicate a problem with the aero... I think they were the only team to use it last year as well.

Yeah I'd say it's just a testing thing rather then them being worried. I don't see why other teams are opting to not use it. Seems a rather useful tool...

frostie500

projectmayhem wrote: »

do they have to put a full load of fuel in for testing?

No teams can run their car in any configuration they want. They can run low fuel and fresh tyres all day if thats what they want to work on. Always keep in mind that during pre season testing teams are looking for sponsors to see the potential of the car so they might be inclined to run low and go for a fast time. The top teams will -I'd imagine-settle into a pattern of running on half tanks so as to give the best balance between high and low fuel running.

Grim.

11811 wrote: »

What exactly are they?

apparently there pitot tubes they give a more precise airspeed reading

amacachi

Would they also be running to check out how the tyres are degrading etc. or will Bridgestone give them most of the information on that?

Grim.

todays times

1. Felipe Massa Ferrari 1min 11.722secs 124 laps
2. Kamui Kobayashi BMW Sauber-Ferrari 1min 12.056secs 96 laps
3. Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1min 12.256secs 108 laps
4. Robert Kubica Renault 1min 12.426secs 119 laps
5. Nico Rosberg Mercedes GP 1min 12.899secs 119 laps
6. Rubens Barrichello Williams-Cosworth 1min 13.377secs 102 laps
7. Sebastien Buemi Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1min 13.823secs 107 laps

frostie500

amacachi wrote: »

Would they also be running to check out how the tyres are degrading etc. or will Bridgestone give them most of the information on that?

No as Grim said the device is for air speed readings. It also does air pressure readings. Its a 'scientific' version of the paint McLaren uses as far as I remember. They may have other sensors for the heat of the tyres but the tyre degradation would mosly be a judgment call by the driver and telemetry analysis of the handling I would think

amacachi

frostie500 wrote: »

No as Grim said the device is for air speed readings. It also does air pressure readings. Its a 'scientific' version of the paint McLaren uses as far as I remember. They may have other sensors for the heat of the tyres but the tyre degradation would mosly be a judgment call by the driver and telemetry analysis of the handling I would think

I meant as well as running high/medium/low fuel would they be doing long runs on the different tyres. As I've said elsewhere I think the direction Bridgestone have taken with the tyres could prove crucial this season. Sure we'll see soon enough.

frostie500

amacachi wrote: »

I meant as well as running high/medium/low fuel would they be doing long runs on the different tyres. As I've said elsewhere I think the direction Bridgestone have taken with the tyres could prove crucial this season. Sure we'll see soon enough.

Oh right I took you up wrong. Bridgestone said they would make all the compounds available through the winter tests so I'd say the teams will all run them with varying fuel loads. The tyres are going to be crucial this season, especially with the news that drivers in the top 10 on the grid will have to start the race on the tyres they used in qualifying

amacachi

frostie500 wrote: »

Oh right I took you up wrong. Bridgestone said they would make all the compounds available through the winter tests so I'd say the teams will all run them with varying fuel loads. The tyres are going to be crucial this season, especially with the news that drivers in the top 10 on the grid will have to start the race on the tyres they used in qualifying

Missed that announcement. As I said before if the tyres go one way then I reckon Button could beat Hamilton. With that announcement I'd say it makes things a little better for Button, I don't think Hamilton would be the best at leaving a tenth-of-a-second-per-lap in a set of tyres when he's meant to be doing a flying lap.
Can't say I like the idea, but meh.

Slutmonkey57b

http://twitpic.com/110v1j

This is how big McLaren's diffuser is.
Follow this guy on twitter, I think he's the one that does the official technical drawings on the F1 site for race breakdowns, has been posting fascinating and techincally very astute stuff.

smooch71

Autosport.com have live testing commentary if anyone fancies a gander:

http://live.autosport.com/commentary.php/id/173

frostie500

The new Virgin was launched today at ten on their website.....or was it? I went on and I was still getting the same screen from the teams launch a month ago with no live feed or link to a live feed. It doesnt fill you with confidence when the team cant use the internet yet try to design the car with CFD!

thegoth

Looks like Rosberg will be Schmachers b*tch this year like all his other team mates.

After 30 laps today, he is already .5 seconds up on Rosbergs best time from yesterday.

This is amazing. He NEVER drives a new regulation car, and is immeditely than one of F1's bright new talents

frostie500

mickeycarty wrote: »

Looks like Rosberg will be Schmachers b*tch this year like all his other team mates.

After 30 laps today, he is already .5 seconds up on Rosbergs best time from yesterday.

For one thing we have no way of knowing what fuel loads and tyres they were both running, so dont read too much into the difference between them. You're also comparing different days and therefore different weather. Alonso has gone .3 quicker then Massa today too. All the runners are going faster and faster. Its because they are getting more info on the new cars and instead of making sure the engine etc was installed correctly they are actually getting down to some serious running now.

mickeycarty wrote: »

This is amazing. He NEVER drives a new regulation car, and is immeditely than one of F1's bright new talents

I dont view it as amazing that Schumi is back on the pace straight away. He's a seven times world champion and if he struggled would be much more suprising rather than him being on the pace

thegoth

Button is off Lewis's pace !!

zeris

frostie500 wrote: »

The new Virgin was launched today at ten on their website.....or was it? I went on and I was still getting the same screen from the teams launch a month ago with no live feed or link to a live feed. It doesnt fill you with confidence when the team cant use the internet yet try to design the car with CFD!

Just took a look at the pictures from the launch on their website. It appears to be missing photos of the car.

frostie500

zeris wrote: »

Just took a look at the pictures from the launch on their website. It appears to be missing photos of the car.

Yeah theres a load of 'techincal errors' on the site they say! I got this on Autosport:

recyclebin

The front wing is very "clean" or basic looking compared to the ferrari or mclaren. They havn't hidden their rear diffuser either on their website.

frostie500

recyclebin wrote: »

The front wing is very "clean" or basic looking compared to the ferrari or mclaren. They havn't hidden their rear diffuser either on their website.

Yeah it looks to be a very simply designed car. The entire car is 'very clean' as you say. Looking forward to seeing it on track though at the next test.

http://www.virginracing.com/cars/#/car-gallery

BoardsRanger

Looks like Merc needs to find more speed!

sarahholt: "It's always very difficult to judge. On full tanks yesterday (Tuesday) we didn't look too bad but we're a little bit off on pace and (there are problems with) the handling and balance of the car which we can fix for (the next test in) Jerez. We know what the problem is.

"Of course the other teams will be progressing as well so we are reasonable, not as quick as Ferrari and Lewis looked quick yesterday. So it looks like we've got a bit of work to do."

zeris

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

http://twitpic.com/110v1j

This is how big McLaren's diffuser is.
Follow this guy on twitter, I think he's the one that does the official technical drawings on the F1 site for race breakdowns, has been posting fascinating and techincally very astute stuff.

He has some good stuff. http://twitpic.com/110tr2 is interesting. It looks like Toro Rosso may have something similar. I don't know if this is just packaging or if there is something more to venting the hot air just above the diffuser. Like when the exhausts used to be in the diffuser.

Wonder if the RB6 will do the same?

projectmayhem

frostie500 wrote: »

Yeah it looks to be a very simply designed car. The entire car is 'very clean' as you say. Looking forward to seeing it on track though at the next test.

http://www.virginracing.com/cars/#/car-gallery

Not a fast, aggressive looking car by any stretch but certainly looks to be a decent enough first effort.

Grim.

todays times

1. Fernando Alonso Ferrari 1min 11.470secs 127 laps
2. Pedro de la Rosa BMW Sauber-Ferrari 1min 12.094secs 80 laps
3. Michael Schumacher Mercedes GP 1min 12.438secs 82 laps
4. Jaime Alguersuari Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1min 12.576secs 97 laps
5. Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 1min 12.951secs 82 laps
6. Vitaly Petrov Renault 1min 13.097secs 75 laps
7. Nico Hulkenberg Williams-Cosworth 1min 13.669secs 126 laps

G-Money

So is Ferrari's pace genuine and are the others in trouble do you's think??

Mike Litoris

Sauber's pace is interesting considering the lack of sponsorship on the car....remember the Prost car during it's test sessions!!

The Ferrari does look fast but we cant assume anything until the last test session. The last few years it seems the test sessions have been indicative of actual pace.

Again we seem to see the stronger team mate leading.

Cant wait to see Virgin in action.

G-Money

I'm wondering who was fastest during pre-season testing last year. Well, until Brawn showed up I mean.

EvilMonkey

35k fans there to see Alonso in a Ferrari, no way he was not going to be fastest today.

Manor Virgin looks livery looks good, It will be interesting to see what kind of times it can do at the next test.

zeris

grandmaster wrote: »

I'm wondering who was fastest during pre-season testing last year. Well, until Brawn showed up I mean.

According to Forix, BMW were the only team to test at Valencia last year and it doesn't have any of the lap times.

However, starting from 17-19 Nov 2008 in Catalunya to 15-19 Mar 2009 at Jerez, there was 19 test sessions (a session here is defined as 1 or more consecutive days at the same track) at 7 different tracks (including Mugello and Fiorano). Brawn made it to the last two test sessions. Honda made it to the first.

Out of the 9 days of testing for the two test sessions, a Brawn was fastest on 4 days and didn't test on 2 days. Rubens was the fastest overall at one and Nakajima was fastest at the other.

The fastest driver of any session at a circuit (ignoring Valencia, Mugello (Rossi was fastest) and Fiorano) was a mixed bag of Buemi, Glock, Rubens and Vettel.

G-Money

That new Virgin car looks good I have to admit. Am very curious to see how fast the new teams will be.

And for heaven sake Red Bull, hurry up and show us the RB6

Oblomov

The huge difference in the complexity of the car designs, from the very austere Sauber, an almost flat top surface with the engine covers as smoooth as possible to the front end of the multi element McLaren to the vast area of the Virgin VR-10. Which will work the best giving the best mix of co-efficient of friction and down-force?

The very intricate Mercedes front with divided endplates to Ferrari's, and most teams, layered end plates.

Lots of very different ideas in how to keep the front and adhesion at its best.

vectra

Mike Litoris wrote: »

Cant wait to see Virgin in action.

Me too.
I actually considered supporting them this season

G-Money

I'm no aerodynamicist but the front wing of the Virgin car looks very basic in it's design and layout, especially compared to some of the more recent complex designs with different layers etc.

Although it's funny when you look back at the cars even in the late 90's, like the all conquering Williams FW18. The front wing on it was very basic as well and it did the job.

The Virgin car had it's shakedown at Silverstone yesterday according to Autosport. They have a pic on their website. It's due to get a full run toady I believe, then they're off to Jerez next week to join the rest of the teams.

frostie500

grandmaster wrote: »

And for heaven sake Red Bull, hurry up and show us the RB6

Red Bull may have wished they showed up in Valencia. The weather forecast for Jerez for the test isnt good and it looks like at least part of the test will be hit by rain thereby limiting their running even further

G-Money

I read that too about the weather.

According to James Allen's blog, while Ferrari topped the times in the first test, they were running lighter fuel loads and so far it may be McLaren who have the fastest car.

Whether it's true or not, the whole guessing game is fun

Frank Bullitt

Merc are to bring a new diffuser to the next test as well,apparently.

Slutmonkey57b

Red bull's big problem with missing the first test isn't testing the speed of the car, it's sorting out their (relatively) horrible reliability problems. The more time they have to do that, the better off they'll be.

G-Money

I see Force India have launched their new car. I don't see a huge difference between it and the 09 car I have to admit. Perhaps I need to look at it a bit more. Autosport will have live tracking on their website of the testing times for all 4 days of the Jerez test this week I believe which is cool. Am very curious to see how the Virgin car gets on.

Also tomorrow the RB6 will be unveiled. I have to admit I'm wondering how much difference one extra week will make for Red Bull. They did that last year as well but in reality, the design of the car is probably finished and they've probably been putting it together and flying it out for the past few days. Would spending an extra week in the wind tunnel or whatever really make much difference to the overall performance of the car? Besides, could they not just do the same work in the wind tunnel and factory anyway, but with having a week's more running to work out other issues and to work on reliability?

vincenzolorenzo

Yeah the new Force India looks nice alright but very similar to last years one. A good bit longer obv due to bigger tanks but overal, pretty conservative looking

frostie500

grandmaster wrote: »

Would spending an extra week in the wind tunnel or whatever really make much difference to the overall performance of the car? Besides, could they not just do the same work in the wind tunnel and factory anyway, but with having a week's more running to work out other issues and to work on reliability?

Adrian Newey has always looked to spend as long as possible with the initial development of the car-once the car is finalised the team cant devote anywhere near as much time to the design as they have to manufacture it and spare parts etc. So you can get a lot more out of this week then he would have been able to if they released the car for last weeks test. Not sure its how I'd go about it with such limited testing but you gotta believe in Newey with his track record.

RayM

The new Lotus. Great livery, but the car looks very 'simple' or something. Maybe I've just been looking at the McLaren for too long.

Slutmonkey57b

Hmm. The rear wing looks very low and wide in that shot too. Probably just the angle, though. Nice to see the green, but the Virgin car is still the best looker of the bunch.

frostie500

Just after seeing the Force India and yeah it does look fairly similar to last years on initial viewing but there is a lot more detail in elements such as the front wing than last years. Brawn put quite a lot of their speed last year down to the front wing design and Force India have clearly spend a lot more time on that element than they did last year. They also incorporated the shark fin element and made it very prevalant. Running it right to the rear wing like the McLaren.

Ive attached an image of last years and this years to show some of the overall differences between the cars if it helps to show the time spent by the team on the small elements of the car

G-Money

The RB6 unveiled:

http://www.redbullracing.com/cs/Satellite/en_INT/Gallery/First-Shots-Of-The-2010-Red-Bull-Racing-Challenger-021242814476884?p=1242814559600

BoardsRanger

grandmaster wrote: »

The RB6 unveiled:

http://www.redbullracing.com/cs/Satellite/en_INT/Gallery/First-Shots-Of-The-2010-Red-Bull-Racing-Challenger-021242814476884?p=1242814559600

I really think those shark-fins ruin the look of the cars. Otherwise- a nice looking car but agree with previous posts that the Virgin livery looks the best.

recyclebin

The front wing looks like a mach 4 razor . But otherwise one of the nicest livery.

frostie500

Ficus wrote: »

Testing Times From Jerez today:
1 Rosberg Mercedes 1m20.927s
2 Buemi Toro Rosso 1m21.031s +0.104
3 Hulkenberg Williams 1m22.243s +1.316
4 Alonso Ferrari 1m22.895s +1.968
5 Kobayashi Sauber 1m23.787s +2.860
6 Button McLaren 1m24.947s +4.020
7 Liuzzi Force India 1m24.968s +4.041
8 Petrov Renault 1m25.440s +4.513
9 Webber Red Bull 1m26.502s +5.575
10 Glock Virgin 1m38.734s +17.807

I should probably add that it started raining inside the first hour so the times are skewed by that as a result. Webber had an oil leak as well that caused a red flag