Superthread: 2010 Launch Cars and Pre-Season Testing

Oblomov · 25-02-2010 12:19am

Nope, don't agree...

Each team is entitled to their opinion, Ferrari has commented on the situation from an insider point of view. You're comments about FOTA, but, the use of the two working groups has proved useful.

If you have arguments within a marriage it doesn't mean you get a divorce but you are entitled to voice your concern.

Max Mosely tenure as President was undermined by his own behaviour and should have resigned much earlier than the election date. The insider information and the action of President did more to damage the image of the FIA than an observation by Ferrari.

The reference to the White Knight and the vassal will be proved in time. The understanding is this refers to Bernie Ecclestone and the demands that are likely to be made in the future.

The missing persons jibe and the actions of the USF1 organisation have proven to correct and the number of staff walking out because of ' no wages' substantiates the concerns of other teams. The FIA ex- president's impetus to recruit new teams without securing the necessary financial backing brings the sport into greater disrepute than a few words from an other team.

The chatter in the sport has voiced greater concern for the speed differential and experience of some of the new drivers but.. those concern have not been voiced in public.

G-Money · 25-02-2010 9:15am

According to Autosport, the Charlie Whiting is on his way to Charlotte to see if USF1 are able to compete in this years championship. It's insane that it's just over two weeks to the start of the new season and two of the new teams haven't even fired up their cars yet.

frostie500 · 25-02-2010 11:59am

Oblomov wrote: »

Nope, don't agree...

Each team is entitled to their opinion, Ferrari has commented on the situation from an insider point of view. You're comments about FOTA, but, the use of the two working groups has proved useful.

I have no issue with teams 'voicing an opinion' but I think that the manner in which Ferrari did so was damaging to the sport. The article was scathing of the series that they are a part of and at a time when Formula 1 needs to stand united in the face of growing difficulties for the teams to get sponsorship could make a bad situation worse. Bear in mind that F1 is always a few years behind a recession due to the deals made being long term and therefore made prior to the global recession.

What work has the overtaking working group done to give a tangible increase in overtaking? I wouldn't view it that they met their targets successfully. FOTA hasn't met its targets to change the experience of fans. At races there is still the same access to the drivers and cars as ever before. Go to a sportscar race or MotoGP and you can meet the drivers/riders and in Sportscars walk up the pitlane before the race and see the cars without their bodywork. You can't do anything like this in F1 and that was one of thing that FOTA said they would look to change.

Horse Whisperer wrote:

"Next, we have the Serbian vultures," continued the column. "Firstly, they launched themselves into a quixotic legal battle with the FIA, then they picked the bones of Toyota on its death bed.

"Having got some people on board, around whom there was still a whiff of past scandals, they are now hovering around waiting to replace whoever is first to drop out of the game, possibly with backing from that very same knight in shining armour whom we mentioned earlier."

You dont think that saying this casts a unneccessary shadow over the sport? Calling a team scavanegrs? Flogging the dead horse that is Spygate by bringing it up again?

Horse Whisperer wrote:

"In the meantime, we have lost two constructors along the way, in the shape of BMW and Toyota, while at Renault, there's not much left other than the name. Was it all worth it?"

I've said before that I do believe that the FIA is to blame for the new teams struggles after the issues arising from the budget cap fiasco but BMW left because they were uncompetitive this season, Toyota left because they cant afford a race team any longer and Renault are only still on the grid because they clearly came to an agreement with the FIA not to be disqualified from the sport after the Singapore race crash. The FIA facilitated the continuance of Renault in F1 by not fining them and only giving them a suspended penalty. Ferrari cant blame the FIA for issues arising with the state of the Renault team at this stage now.

Oblomov wrote: »

If you have arguments within a marriage it doesn't mean you get a divorce but you are entitled to voice your concern.

You dont air your dirty linen in the street. Ferrari should have kept the matter in house with the FIA through discussion with Jean Todt. By bring their complaints into the press they only make F1 look like it is full of infighting and bikering.

Oblomov wrote: »

The reference to the White Knight and the vassal will be proved in time. The understanding is this refers to Bernie Ecclestone and the demands that are likely to be made in the future.

Do you not think that it is somewhat hypocritical of Ferrari to say that Bernie is using the teams a vassal after they constantly used Sauber and Minardi as 'vassals' when voting was required for rule changes etc. I dont think that Bernie does anything for free, he always has an endgame but for Ferrari to get high and mighty about after having their own 'special arrangement' with the commercial rights holder and the governing body strikes of a double standard to me.

EvilMonkey · 25-02-2010 1:30pm

grandmaster wrote: »

According to Autosport, the Charlie Whiting is on his way to Charlotte to see if USF1 are able to compete in this years championship. It's insane that it's just over two weeks to the start of the new season and two of the new teams haven't even fired up their cars yet.

Last time he was there he said everything was fine.

Bernie was asked a long time ago about the new teams, he said he didn't think USF1 would make it. He is rarely wrong on these things!

frostie500 wrote: »

What work has the overtaking working group done to give a tangible increase in overtaking? I wouldn't view it that they met their targets successfully. FOTA hasn't met its targets to change the experience of fans. At races there is still the same access to the drivers and cars as ever before. Go to a sportscar race or MotoGP and you can meet the drivers/riders and in Sportscars walk up the pitlane before the race and see the cars without their bodywork. You can't do anything like this in F1 and that was one of thing that FOTA said they would look to change.

The overtaking working group is not FOTA, and once double diffusers were allowed by the FIA any slim chance it had of improving things was gone.

Give them some time most of last season they were fighting off Max, but i don't expect much to change regarding access.

Their main objective of not letting FIA impose without the teams in on the decision making was a success.

You dont think that saying this casts a unneccessary shadow over the sport? Calling a team scavanegrs? Flogging the dead horse that is Spygate by bringing it up again?

No most people ignored it, or laughed it off. They cleared up something StefanGP will not get their backing so wont be replacing USF1.(Unless of course Bernie is willing to make some concessions to them

)

Do you think teams with no spare parts (Virgin today) or teams that are unlikely to make it to Bahrain without major intervention is damaging to F1?

G-Money · 25-02-2010 2:55pm

USF1 seem to be about to give up the ghost. The BBC have been fairly accurate with their F1 reports since they got the coverage back...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8536567.stm

Ghost Train · 25-02-2010 5:01pm

Photos from todays testing
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8536898.stm

BoardsRanger · 25-02-2010 9:21pm

Webber's Red Bull was quickest today with a 1m21.4 . I do think times will towards and maybe get below the 1min20 mark later in the week.

I was watching a video of testing today ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKKhj7L-y8o ) and Red Bull were simulating pit stops and it struck me that the front trolley jack man should be the highest paid this year! Every other year, he had ample time to let down the car as the refueling mechanics would still be busy. However, this year, the speed of the stop is dependent on him getting out of the way fast!

IM0 · 25-02-2010 11:42pm

me@ucd wrote: »

what has that got to do with Ferrari, only thing I can see id its on *their* site

let me re-phrase that..what the fook does it have to do with Car launches and Pre season testing

G-Money · 26-02-2010 9:28am

BoardsRanger wrote: »

Webber's Red Bull was quickest today with a 1m21.4 . I do think times will towards and maybe get below the 1min20 mark later in the week.

I was watching a video of testing today ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKKhj7L-y8o ) and Red Bull were simulating pit stops and it struck me that the front trolley jack man should be the highest paid this year! Every other year, he had ample time to let down the car as the refueling mechanics would still be busy. However, this year, the speed of the stop is dependent on him getting out of the way fast!

I think that video is actually just a series of still shots though...?

G-Money · 26-02-2010 9:36am

I stand corrected, sorry

frostie500 · 26-02-2010 3:21pm

I see Ferrari are running the shark fin on their car during this weeks tests. I dont think they ran it upto now so they may be in their definitive Bahrain aero configuration now seeing as they are also running a new wing configuration according to reports earlier in the week

Frank Bullitt · 26-02-2010 3:26pm

Webber reckons that Red Bull are in good shape and ahead of their rivals now...So Vettel for the championship so.

vectra · 26-02-2010 5:30pm

I feel the Virgins are going to get "screwed"

woodland guy · 26-02-2010 11:38pm

Has anybody been to pre season testing? Would it be worth a trip to go see?

IM0 · 27-02-2010 12:02am

woodland guy wrote: »

Has anybody been to pre season testing? Would it be worth a trip to go see?

It depends what your into? if your into seeing the cars in the flesh for buttons money they go for it, some testing tickets are dirt cheap!
Id say barcelona would be a good bit dearer, but still probably half the price of the cheapest GP tickets.

be aware that you could get bored and wet, they pick and choose when to go out on track, and if its raining you just get wet :pac: for nothing!

HTH.

woodland guy · 27-02-2010 1:30am

me@ucd wrote: »

It depends what your into? if your into seeing the cars in the flesh for buttons money they go for it, some testing tickets are dirt cheap!
Id say barcelona would be a good bit dearer, but still probably half the price of the cheapest GP tickets.

be aware that you could get bored and wet, they pick and choose when to go out on track, and if its raining you just get wet :pac: for nothing!

HTH.

Yeah i saw that the tickets are a tenner for each of the days in barcalona. Looking at the times the cars run bout 100 laps or so. you would get to see alot of track time, not so much the racing and overtaking i guess. Guess the only draw back would be alright if its raining i guess alright.

Cheers by the way

G-Money · 27-02-2010 9:57am

I'm thinking about going next year. I didn't really get my act together in time this year and left it too late.

Tickets to the testing are between 5 and 15 euro per day, very cheap indeed. Depending on whether you like crowds, if the testing is in Spain, it's probably better not to show up the same day as Alonso is testing.

Personally, Jerez looks like a lovely wee place. I wouldn't mind having went to there, although it was raining so perhaps that wouldn't be so enjoyable.

If you go to the circuit websites, you can buy the tickets from there, or at least get the information about the prices.

joesoap007 · 28-02-2010 12:54am

frostie500 wrote: »

I see Ferrari are running the shark fin on their car during this weeks tests. I dont think they ran it upto now so they may be in their definitive Bahrain aero configuration now seeing as they are also running a new wing configuration according to reports earlier in the week

not sure about first test but the fin has been on the car at the other tests,,,forza ferrari

joesoap007 · 28-02-2010 12:55am

frostie500 wrote: »

I see Ferrari are running the shark fin on their car during this weeks tests. I dont think they ran it upto now so they may be in their definitive Bahrain aero configuration now seeing as they are also running a new wing configuration according to reports earlier in the week

vectra wrote: »

I feel the Virgins are going to get "screwed"

the Virgins are leeking all over the track

BoardsRanger · 28-02-2010 7:41pm

Jeez i thought there would be more action in here considering we are two weeks away from what is billed to be on of the closest and best season of F1.

The testing times really do suggest its going to be a tight year - look at the times from the final day of testing:

1. Lewis Hamilton, McLaren, 1:20.472, 134 Laps
2. Mark Webber, Red Bull, 1:20.496, 61 Laps
3. Felipe Massa, Ferrari, 1:20.539, 114 Laps
4. Adrian Sutil, Force India, 1:20.611, 100 Laps
5. Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull, 1:20.667, 76 Laps
6. Michael Schumacher, Mercedes GP, 1:20.745, 123 Laps
7. Rubens Barrichello, Williams, 1:20.870, 84 Laps
8. Kamui Kobayashi, BMW Sauber, 1:20.911, 67 Laps
9. Sebastien Buemi, Toro Rosso, 1:22.135, 88 Laps
10. Robert Kubica, Renault, 1:23.175, 107 Laps
11. Heikki Kovalainen, Lotus, 1:25.251, 65 Laps
12. Lucas di Grassi, Virgin, 1:26.160, 49 Laps

This time last year there was a second between the first on second car! Now the top 8 cars are all within a second.

Wonder if there is going to be another boards fantasy F1 league?

amacachi · 28-02-2010 7:48pm

BoardsRanger wrote: »

Jeez i thought there would be more action in here considering we are two weeks away from what is billed to be on of the closest and best season of F1.

The testing times really do suggest its going to be a tight year - look at the times from the final day of testing:

1. Lewis Hamilton, McLaren, 1:20.472, 134 Laps
2. Mark Webber, Red Bull, 1:20.496, 61 Laps
3. Felipe Massa, Ferrari, 1:20.539, 114 Laps
4. Adrian Sutil, Force India, 1:20.611, 100 Laps
5. Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull, 1:20.667, 76 Laps
6. Michael Schumacher, Mercedes GP, 1:20.745, 123 Laps
7. Rubens Barrichello, Williams, 1:20.870, 84 Laps
8. Kamui Kobayashi, BMW Sauber, 1:20.911, 67 Laps
9. Sebastien Buemi, Toro Rosso, 1:22.135, 88 Laps
10. Robert Kubica, Renault, 1:23.175, 107 Laps
11. Heikki Kovalainen, Lotus, 1:25.251, 65 Laps
12. Lucas di Grassi, Virgin, 1:26.160, 49 Laps

This time last year there was a second between the first on second car! Now the top 8 cars are all within a second.

Wonder if there is going to be another boards fantasy F1 league?

Just a pity seeing the new teams so far down.
If those times are anything like representative then we could be in for a great season with lots of winners.
And of course at the end of the season "I don't think <whoever> deserves to be champion, he only won 3/4 races" or something similar.

Jules.Winnfield · 28-02-2010 10:54pm

Looking at the times I'm delighted for Adrian Sutil and the Force India, dont think the'll mount any sort of challenge but i'd like to think that the can take some of the speed that they have in their car and may get a podium or two and disrupt the top runners throughout the season and not just as a moving chicane

irishleedsfan · 01-03-2010 12:23am

I really hope sauber can do well this year. Some of their test times have been good. Plus Jenson Button thinks they will do well this year. Heres hoping! Does anybody know when this seasons merchandise will be on the f1 shop. They still have last years stuff up!

IM0 · 01-03-2010 2:13am

BoardsRanger wrote: »

Jeez i thought there would be more action in here considering we are two weeks away from what is billed to be on of the closest and best season of F1.

probably because since last season we have been on about how looking forward to it we were, everything has been said already :pac:

come on time! go faster!

frostie500 · 01-03-2010 10:05am

Jules.Winnfield wrote: »

Looking at the times I'm delighted for Adrian Sutil and the Force India, dont think the'll mount any sort of challenge but i'd like to think that the can take some of the speed that they have in their car and may get a podium or two and disrupt the top runners throughout the season and not just as a moving chicane

Sutil really needs to perform this year, in my eyes he is one of the drivers under the most pressure. He clearly has ability but crashes have seemed to find him during his career. Force India looks like they have made progress with the car, it clearly has more downforce than last years car but it is still coming out at the top of the speed traps according to testing reports. The team needs to get a podium or two this year and Sutil needs to get the car into Quali 3 on a semi consistent basis. They have to expect to be challenging for fifth place in the constructors championship this year along with Sauber and Renault and seeing as they have had the most trouble free winter they should be capable of doing that

G-Money · 01-03-2010 12:05pm

Just to get people that little bit more excited. Next week we will have the first practise session for the 2010 season

Jules.Winnfield · 01-03-2010 5:15pm

Through a link on the BBC site I found this:
http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-usf1-asks-for-delay-until-2011/

as you can see its self explanitory. USF1 have asked to delay their entry till 2011 - somehow I don't see that happening. Hopefully The powers that be see the light and give the spot to StefanGP who already have a car and apperently 2 drivers.

G-Money · 01-03-2010 5:33pm

I was also reading that USF1 already had $16 million in sponsorship lined up and that was just from their two drivers. I know there are tricky economic times but it sounds like a bit of a shambles. I read a report somewhere that said they only had 1 mechanic!

BoardsRanger · 01-03-2010 8:22pm

Eddie Jordan predicts Stefan GP will race in Bahrain and Jacques Villeneuve will be driving!! Considering Eddie correctly called Schumacher's comeback before anyone else, i would tend to trust him.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8544246.stm

*Edit* That would be 5 world champions on the grid. Wonder when that last happened?

IM0 · 02-03-2010 3:11am

theres enough new pack fodder teams already why have 2 more obstacles to potentially ruin the races

, and they havent even tested have they? Last thing we want is a classic season ruined by some johnny come lateleys

joesoap007 · 02-03-2010 4:22am

Quali 3 is when we find out who is fastest,,ferrari all the way hay

Slutmonkey57b · 02-03-2010 11:33pm

Not before time. Bunch of dreamers indeed, led by a joker in an empty warehouse.

amacachi · 02-03-2010 11:52pm

Stefan GP so? Though they're vultures, wouldn't want them there. :pac: How long for Campos? :P

Ghost Train · 03-03-2010 12:27am

Hope stefan gp are on the grid, so as to have the full grid and the toyota car wasn't too bad at the end of last season. I see BMW Sauber aren't on the formula1.com website under the 2010 teams :pac:

EvilMonkey · 03-03-2010 1:46am

About time I'm sick of reading about USF1 on motor sport sites.
Don't think Campos will make it either, and it could be too late for the Vultures!
What's the deadline for being in a container to Bahrain?

vectra · 03-03-2010 2:12am

Why are people against the Serbs??

G-Money · 03-03-2010 9:50am

I read somewhere that the teams are shipping the cars out this Sunday to Bahrain.

I feel bad for the staff of USF1, like the grass roots people who do all the work. I still get the impression the whole thing was built on a lot of hopeful promises and on luck more than anything else. It does surprise me that they got a spot ahead of the likes of Lola and Prodive. I don't know much about Lola, but Prodrive seem they would have been very capable of getting a car onto the grid.

I'm not sure I understand Ferrari's stance on the new teams. I kind of agree with their attitude towards USF1, but not their attitude towards Lotus and Virgin. Fair enough, Lotus and Virgin are currently bottom of the timesheets but they are brand new teams, so it was always unlikely they were going to do a BrawnGP and show up at the first race and win. I suspect they will only get faster as the year goes on (finances allowing) as they will probably make bigger performance steps. The teams at the front of the grid will also make improvements but if they are close to the limit of what is possible, the improvements are likely to be smaller.

vectra · 03-03-2010 10:09am

grandmaster wrote: »

I'm not sure I understand Ferrari's stance on the new teams. ,

I think they should button up.. Silly talk
F1 needs new teams.

grandmaster wrote: »

Fair enough, Lotus and Virgin are currently bottom of the timesheets but they are brand new teams,

Obviously the Italian brain has a short memory.
Arent they the very time that were at the bottom of the time sheets last season opening races :rolleyes:

BoardsRanger · 03-03-2010 1:33pm

Think McLaren knows who has the fastest car...:D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwP4D6HEuTo

smooch71 · 03-03-2010 2:43pm

vectra wrote: »

Why are people against the Serbs??

Not me.

Any team that brings the mighty Jaques Villeneuve back has my vote!

F1 needs more fat singing Canadians.

EvilMonkey · 03-03-2010 3:18pm

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Don't think Campos will make it either, and it could be too late for the Vultures!

As soon as i post this they announce a date for unvailing their car and a name change Hispania Racing F1 Team or HRT F1

vectra wrote: »

Why are people against the Serbs??

Ferrari don't like them because they hired a certain ex McLaren cheating staff member, Oh and the real reason, they are using the 2010 Toyota that Ferrari don't want on the grid since they hired a few Toyota aero guys and are hoping to to put some of Toyotas/SteffanGPs tech on their car. Who are the Vultures again

@grandmaster I think Ferrari's criticism of the new teams is not really aimed at the new teams but at the FIA. F1's value is less to Ferrari without the other manufactures and FOTA is weakened without them. Rightly or wrongly Ferrari blame the FIA for them leaving. They should shut up and get on with it though its not the new teams fault.

Im not to bothered if StefanGP are let in, its not like their will be less teams than last year. It will just make the mini league at the back more intersting.

G-Money · 03-03-2010 4:01pm

I know I said on a previous reply that the Lotus car looks basic, but the more I see it, the more I like it. I don't know if it's just the paint job or what, but it looks really good. I think it will be one of the Minichamps models I buy next year

I'm not that bothered if Stefan GP don't make it in or not. I'm curious to see what their car looks like and I'd like to see Villeneuve back in F1. I don't think USF1 would get into F1 again next year if the FIA open up another slot then. It's mad that they snubbed Prodrive and Lola, twice.

G-Money · 03-03-2010 9:33pm

Stefan GP won't get the slot vacated by USF1. Instead, the FIA will open up 1 slot for the 2011 season.

http://fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressreleases/f1releases/2010/Pages/f1_teams.aspx

amacachi · 03-03-2010 9:48pm

Bull****.

IM0 · 03-03-2010 10:35pm

grandmaster wrote: »

Stefan GP won't get the slot vacated by USF1. Instead, the FIA will open up 1 slot for the 2011 season.

http://fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressreleases/f1releases/2010/Pages/f1_teams.aspx

Im glad, theres enough pack fodder in there already :pac:
and they havent even done 1 mile in testing, why risk them ruining races and causing carnage with race outcomes.