Clare GAA discussion thread

keeponhurling

So no sympathy for Davy trying to build another good team ?
Serious competition for places now in Clarem

marco_polo

citykat wrote: »

I've seen a lot of references to what Cody does and might do in response to so-called transgressions by these Clare players. What would he have done in that situation? As far as I know, Cody takes a drink but not much even when he's 'celebrating'. In fairness to him he's not puritannical about it, it's just he was never into it himself.

From what i have read, the two players disciplined were injured. If these two guys were out, there would have been very little said (by Cody). However, first night back at training he would probably have ran the arse off them to the point of nausea, reminding them at every turn the reason for their sickness. I believe he gave Aylward a bit of a doing after he returned from Oz just to bring him back down to earth.

The way Davy has approached this issue is IMO appalling and totally uncalled for. If one of these guys were my son or brother, i would hope they would be treated with more civility. For a guy who cried about being bullied when he was younger, those cries ring hollow to me now.

And to be fair I would take them at their word that the weren't drinking, I have a hard time in accepting that there is an effective all week time curfew on young guys making big sacrifices to play and amateur game, and the punishment for this crime is way over the top. If true the double standards are just the cherry on top.

If this is the price of "success" I can see the appeal of spending the summer abroad to some players.

windy shepard henderson

keeponhurling wrote: »

So no sympathy for Davy trying to build another good team ?
Serious competition for places now in Clarem

sympathy for what ? and yes there is serious competition for places in clare at the moment however a certen mr fitzgearld dose'nt want to know about changes for god sake he picked 13 out of the starting 15 from the all ireland 2 years ago last week against tipperary ,...........we have won two under 21 all irelands in that time and i can safely say there are far better players i the county at the moment then the likes of pat donnellon ans shane golden to start with , in 2013 he reenvented things on a regular basis and the players would have done anything for him , obviously not any more if the past week is anything to go by

not having a go , but i cant see where all this is going at the moment lets hope its not division 1-b , but lets hope we dont lose any more from the squad

Kristopherus

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/clare-hurling-boss-davy-fitzgerald-cuts-rte-interview-short-after-he-was-quizzed-about-treatment-of-players-31066951.html

I heard most of that interview yesterday evening and Davy was'nt backind down. Obstinacy personified imo.

windy shepard henderson

brave performance by the footballers 10 points down at half time against a far more experienced and far clever armagh side , they rallied at the start of the second half to quickly bring the game back to 2 points with in the first 15 minuets of the half , the game went nip and tuck after that , a late goal put a gloss on things for the visitors

our first half display was one of naivety we were punnished for any slight mistake, armaghs running off the ball and support play killed us and they held a deserved 10 point lead at the break , second half and a change of tactics saw us aproach the the game in a more direct mannor , running at the armagh defense at will , we also dominated mid field for most parts but our wastfulnes in front of goal cost us , we kicked 10 wides some of those very scoreable and two of them point blank goal chances

it now means promotion is well out of the question , our scoring average is far superior to limerick and wexford in the bottom two and would mean one or both would have to win there last two games and us to lose our last two for us to go down

consolidation is the name of the game now and a win against limerick in newcastle west in two weeks would be very manageable on our second half performance today after that comes fermanagh , 2 wins from our last two would cap off a descent league campaign and very possible but we do lack experience against the bigger teams and we could do with a better bench , while kealan sexton and cathal mac made apperances and david tubridy out injured we still require more to advance further

our best performances came from marty mcmahon and kevin hartnet at the back gary brennan in midfield/full forward shane hickey and jamie malone in the half forward line , dean ryan and cirean russell played well going forward as did cathal o conner but i doubt they will be two happy with there first 20 minuets , 3-11 to 1-11 armagh final score

windy shepard henderson

also that tipperary resuelt against kilkenny now means that either a large clare win or kilkenny win next week is the only way either side will avoid each other in a relagation play off even if we win in nolan park next week our scoring average probably wont be good enough to avoid the playoff , and with the ballyhale contingent coming back it looks like were in for battle over the next two weeks

letowski

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

also that tipperary resuelt against kilkenny now means that either a large clare win or kilkenny win next week is the only way either side will avoid each other in a relagation play off even if we win in nolan park next week our scoring average probably wont be good enough to avoid the playoff , and with the ballyhale contingent coming back it looks like were in for battle over the next two weeks

Its actually a little easier WSH, we dont need to beat KK by much (obviously mission incredibly hard in Nowlan Park). We have to win obviously, but if Dublin lose to Galway, it goes to head to in which Dublin and KK would be in the relegation playoff, as we beat the Dubs yesterday.

From Gaa website:

http://www.gaa.ie/content/documents/Allianz%20Hurling%20League%202015%20Format.pdf

Where Counties finish with Equal Points – extract from (Riail 6.20 T.O. 2014):
“...........the tie shall be decided by the following means and in the order specified:
(i) Where two Teams only are involved - the outcome of the meeting of the two
Teams in the previous game in the Competition;
(ii) Scoring Difference (subtracting the total Scores Against from total Scores For);
(iii) Highest Total Score For;
(iv) A Play-Off.
Exceptions:
In relation to means (ii) and (iii) above, if the accumulated scores of a team, so involved, are
affected by a disqualification, loss of game on a proven objection, retirement or walk over,
the tie shall be decided by a Play-Off.”


Dublin play Galway at home which would require a big show from GY to get the win there, as Dublin have made Parnell a fortress. Absolutely no doubt at all it's going to take a massive performance to beat Kilkenny over there despite today too, but you never know. Stranger things have happened in hurling. I'll be going to Kilkenny in hope.

windy shepard henderson

letowski wrote: »

Its actually a little easier WSH, we dont need to beat KK by much (obviously mission incredibly hard in Nowlan Park). We have to win obviously, but if Dublin lose to Galway, it goes to head to in which Dublin and KK would be in the relegation playoff, as we beat the Dubs yesterday.

From Gaa website:

http://www.gaa.ie/content/documents/Allianz%20Hurling%20League%202015%20Format.pdf

Where Counties finish with Equal Points – extract from (Riail 6.20 T.O. 2014):
“...........the tie shall be decided by the following means and in the order specified:
(i) Where two Teams only are involved - the outcome of the meeting of the two
Teams in the previous game in the Competition;
(ii) Scoring Difference (subtracting the total Scores Against from total Scores For);
(iii) Highest Total Score For;
(iv) A Play-Off.
Exceptions:
In relation to means (ii) and (iii) above, if the accumulated scores of a team, so involved, are
affected by a disqualification, loss of game on a proven objection, retirement or walk over,
the tie shall be decided by a Play-Off.”


Dublin play Galway at home which would require a big show from GY to get the win there, as Dublin have made Parnell a fortress. Absolutely no doubt at all it's going to take a massive performance to beat Kilkenny over there despite today too, but you never know. Stranger things have happened in hurling. I'll be going to Kilkenny in hope.

fair play i didnt know that , i always assumed it was down to scoring average's
, actually on the basis of yesterdays second half performance i think we do have a descent chance lets hope ballyhale win tuesday and they hit the bottle for the week in celebration , pity now that kk didnt beat one of galway or dublin , i certainly dont fancy taking them on in a playoff

onthebrink

Davy Fitzgerald highlighted the issue of him being bullied and how badly he felt while being bullied. It was bad enough that he expected some sympathy for that but now turns on 2 players who were "seen out" by a member of the selection committee.
What kind of spineless men continued to train under Davy while 2 of their colleagues were bullied and humiliated in front of them??
What kind of spineless men were on the side lines - "the back room" team tolerated this disgraceful behaviour?
Is this the value of a Clare Jersey?
Davy Fitzgerald has demeaned Clare hurling by treating his players this way but whoever else was in attendance while this was going on is just as guilty.
The old saying about evil will prevail while good men stand idly by comes to mind.

Clareman

I don't have a problem with the whole "calling out in front of everyone" thing, watch any Lions DVD and you'll see that discipline is handed out in public, I do have a problem with the idiotic "punishment", what was the benefit of having players train on their own for 3 weeks. The other problem I have is the players themselves, saying that other players were doing it too, come on folks, you aren't kids. Finally, I really really really don't have a problem with the players being out, they aren't professionals, they can do whatever they want in their own time, if they weren't doing anything to hinder your performance then there shouldn't be a problem, ffs, Davy has been involved in a few pubs down through the years, he should know that people can go out and not drink.

Clareman

In regards to on pitch matters, the footballers have 2 games left and need to win 1 to retain division 3 status, realistically Limerick is their best option, but Fermanagh might be already qualified for the final so might rest players. Good result for a young team if they retain their status.

Hurlers, decent performance yesterday, Kilkenny will be hurting after the trimming they got from Tipp, there's a chance that they'll be playing each other in the play off as well. The 1 thing that is really bugging me about the hurlers is the idiotic sending offs, I've not problem with a player being sent off if it's justified or defending their team or whatever, but most of the sending offs have been idiotic and peevish, ffs, kicking someone when you have a hurley in your hand, wtf did you expect to happen? That's just being petulant, clearly not trying to do damage, that's just stupid imo, definitely not something you'd expect from 1 of your most experienced players.

windy shepard henderson

Clareman wrote: »

In regards to on pitch matters, the footballers have 2 games left and need to win 1 to retain division 3 status, realistically Limerick is their best option, but Fermanagh might be already qualified for the final so might rest players. Good result for a young team if they retain their status.

Hurlers, decent performance yesterday, Kilkenny will be hurting after the trimming they got from Tipp, there's a chance that they'll be playing each other in the play off as well. The 1 thing that is really bugging me about the hurlers is the idiotic sending offs, I've not problem with a player being sent off if it's justified or defending their team or whatever, but most of the sending offs have been idiotic and peevish, ffs, kicking someone when you have a hurley in your hand, wtf did you expect to happen? That's just being petulant, clearly not trying to do damage, that's just stupid imo, definitely not something you'd expect from 1 of your most experienced players.

footballers are pretty much safe on there scoreing average alone even if limerick did beat us and louth louth would probabley get relagated because of there scoreing average neither will hapen i doubt , and i cant see wexford beat tipp and fermanagh either ,i would be happy with 6 points but think 8 points would be a justified return on our home form this year alone , we are better aquuiped against the leinster teams more so then the ulster teams , it looks like division 3 could be flooded with leinster teams next season anything up to 5 out of the 8 next year could be from the east


hurlers , the dicipline is terrible at times i didnt see the bugler incident yesterday , sounds like its straight out of the jack browne verity of indiscipline , bugler however dose not look himself of late it has to be said though , good chance of seeing off the cats next week on todays performance how ever i am not sure we would take them in a play off with all the ballyhale lads back , hopfully galway can do us a favor next week and we keep up our side of the bargain

letowski

Clareman wrote: »

I don't have a problem with the whole "calling out in front of everyone" thing, watch any Lions DVD and you'll see that discipline is handed out in public, I do have a problem with the idiotic "punishment", what was the benefit of having players train on their own for 3 weeks. The other problem I have is the players themselves, saying that other players were doing it too, come on folks, you aren't kids. Finally, I really really really don't have a problem with the players being out, they aren't professionals, they can do whatever they want in their own time, if they weren't doing anything to hinder your performance then there shouldn't be a problem, ffs, Davy has been involved in a few pubs down through the years, he should know that people can go out and not drink.

Id agree with this. The thing is, as Cummins said tonight, O'Halloran and Nicky knew if they were out and caught, they would receive this sort punishment. I know a couple of lads on the panel and Dara Keane got more or less the same punishment in Davy's first year, 2012. It actually ruined him, he went from breaking on the team in the 1b league that year, to never featuring again under Davy. I agree for what the lads were punished for was very harsh considering they weren't even drinking and were injured, the punishment itself seemed excessive too.
But the worst and most detrimental thing in my opinion, if Davy O'Halloran is to be believed, is the double standards accusation. If this is true, there is serious incompetence with this management team in the way they conduct their squad management of this team. One simply can not condone this.

windy shepard henderson

letowski wrote: »

Id agree with this. The thing is, as Cummins said tonight, O'Halloran and Nicky knew if they were out and caught, they would receive this sort punishment. I know a couple of lads on the panel and Dara Keane got more or less the same punishment in Davy's first year, 2012. It actually ruined him, he went from breaking on the team in the 1b league that year, to never featuring again under Davy. I agree for what the lads were punished for was very harsh considering they weren't even drinking and were injured, the punishment itself seemed excessive too.
But the worst and most detrimental thing in my opinion, if Davy O'Halloran is to be believed, is the double standards accusation. If this is true, there is serious incompetence with this management team in the way they conduct their squad management of this team. One simply can not condone this.

listen i would agree with the same disicpline as last year re totts , as brendan cummins said kick them off the panel if they are out of order ,however the idea of punishment is crazy that fitz came up with and the timing is even more laughable nearly 3 weeks after the event , the other player in question went to louis mulqueen and told him stright out that he had breached the rules , i think it was louis easy good nature that delt with the situation rather then double standerds , however as i said the methods by fitz of punishment is laughable considering its not that long ago it was his own shoe's that were thrown out the window of a moving school bus ....

letowski

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

listen i would agree with the same disicpline as last year re totts , as brendan cummins said kick them off the panel if they are out of order ,however the idea of punishment is crazy that fitz came up with and the timing is even more laughable nearly 3 weeks after the event , the other player in question went to louis mulqueen and told him stright out that he had breached the rules , i think it was louis easy good nature that delt with the situation rather then double standerds , however as i said the methods by fitz of punishment is laughable considering its not that long ago it was his own shoe's that were thrown out the window of a moving school bus ....

That's correct. Tots' punishment was fair in my opinion, it was a bad transgression. I dont have any idea if Davys punishment is alot harsher than other county, but it does seem unreasonable. It's a disappointing situation, particulary imo for Nicky. I remember seeing this guy winning an U21 in 2009 and thinking he was going to star for us in the future. He had huge ability and was arguably the outstanding prospect of that that crop. Did well starting off his senior career in fairness, but just got ousted in the end. He was still a very good squad member.

Akrasia

letowski wrote: »

That's correct. Tots' punishment was fair in my opinion, it was a bad transgression. I dont have any idea if Davys punishment is alot harsher than other county, but it does seem unreasonable. It's a disappointing situation, particulary imo for Nicky. I remember seeing this guy winning an U21 in 2009 and thinking he was going to star for us in the future. He had huge ability and was arguably the outstanding prospect of that that crop. Did well starting off his senior career in fairness, but just got ousted in the end. He was still a very good squad member.

Humiliating players as punishment is totally unacceptable.

The punishment available to the manager should be extra training if the player is deemed to not be pulling their weight, or lacking fitness, and ultimately, dropping them from the panel.

It is completely unacceptable to humiliate players like this. Playing for your county is an honour that every underage player dreams of. If your manager is a bully who ostracises and targets your fellow team mates as a motivational tactic, how can you have pride in your Jersey?

The Clare team have so much talent, the best way to reach our potential is to motivate them to play their hearts out for the pride of winning for their county and their team-mates, and I can't see how humiliating and ostracising players builds a strong team spirit.

slegs

Sounds to me like the man who was affected by being bullied as a kid has bullied two young lads who made a mistake. Humiliation as punishment is nothing short of bullying and Davy Fitz should know that.

Mountainlad

The lad is a complete wagon, and the sooner ye get rid of him the better off yell be. Look at the negative media attention hes created in the last year and a bit around the team. And Daithi Regan was right, its all for his ego.

He did well in winning an all Ireland with ye, but long term I really don't think its worth it. I would personally be getting the joint u21 management in as soon as possible if they'll take it, but Davy will definitely be there until at least the end of the year.

Clareman

Players out before a match, breach of code of conduct or whatever, some punishments could be to do extra training, to be left home from a couple of matches, be made to clean the dressing room or something, but to go to the lengths of banning players from training/matches, that's just stupid. Between defections to football and this now we've lost an awful lot of players this year already, throw in a couple of injuries and/or suspensions and we're in trouble.

In relation to the senior player thing, Declan Kidney had a great interview on a DVD years ago where he told a story about when he was coaching a school team and he had a ban on smoking, anyone caught smoking would be dropped from the next game, anyway, before the final Kidney was in his car and spotted his starting 10 smoking on a corner, he ducked down so he wouldn't be spotted, he knew if the 10 knew that he was spotted that he'd have to take action and he didn't want to have to drop him.

Clareman

Mountainlad wrote: »

Davy will definitely be there until at least the end of the year.

Ignoring the fact that his father is calling the shots, Davy managed Clare to an All Ireland, he's in the job until he doesn't want it anymore.

Mehapoy

Mountainlad wrote: »

The lad is a complete wagon, and the sooner ye get rid of him the better off yell be. Look at the negative media attention hes created in the last year and a bit around the team. And Daithi Regan was right, its all for his ego.

He did well in winning an all Ireland with ye, but long term I really don't think its worth it. I would personally be getting the joint u21 management in as soon as possible if they'll take it, but Davy will definitely be there until at least the end of the year.

I must say donal og called it very correctly after the 2013 all Ireland when he said he couldn't believe Clare were laughing and playing keepy uppy before the all Ireland final warm up, it just showed the abandon with which they were hurling, he also said the management had a new mindset to deal with after the final as they had to deal with all Ireland winners, hurler of the year etc. requires different management style as guys will rightly feel they have done it and are not going to run through a wall without question and are not going to accept every decision without speaking up, I think Davy is still trying the same methods that got them there rather than evolving the style, losing so many of the management team aswell doesn't reflect well on Davy...will be interesting to see if the win over Dublin is the turning point in the year or a false dawn...

Clareman

Whatever about the player management side of things, which I think at this stage can't be defended, lets look at the bear facts of Davy's management of Clare, I think everyone would agree that this is 1 of the most skilful set of under 21s to come out of any county let alone Clare. Also, I'm going to ignore the league.

In 2012, beaten by Waterford and Limerick, beat Dublin.
In 2013, beaten by Cork, beat Cork, Limerick, Laois, Waterford & Galway, drew with Wexford and Cork.
In 2014, beaten by Cork, drew twice with Wexford.

In 3 years that's 14 matches and 6 wins, that's a win rate of ~40%, in any other county that would equate to a manager under serious pressure to retain his position

Mal-Adjusted

^^^^ in 2013, we beat Waterford in Munster.

Clareman

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

^^^^ in 2013, we beat Waterford in Munster.

It's amazing how 1 match can make all the difference

Mal-Adjusted

no need to be a smartass, i just pointed out a mistake you made, move on.

I actually agree with you about Davy & if he doesn't get a serious performance out of the team this summer, a shove might come from the clubs (we all know it won't come from the co. board)

ProudDUB

Interesting comments from one of the talking heads on the wireless earlier. Wanted to know why the GPA weren't getting involved in all this. Said that as player welfare is supposed to their main concern, shouldn't they be acting on behalf of the players in cases like these, or act as an intermediary between the unhappy players and management, to reach a solution that everyone is happy with. Said that the players first phone call to air grievances, should be to the GPA & not to journalists looking to sell newspapers. Hard not to agree with that to be honest.

keeponhurling

IF they are members of the GPA of course

ProudDUB

Why wouldn't they be? I thought all inter county players were?

LuckyGent88

Well it looks like they are getting involved anyway.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/gpa-investigating-treatment-of-disciplined-clare-players-1.2141895

ProudDUB

Be interesting to see what they do. They seem a bit toothless since they were consumed by the GAA organization itself. Will they have the stomach for a battle with an inter county manager and the county board that presumably supports him?

keeponhurling

Sure even if they somehow could pressure a resolution, not likely they would be picked for first 15

keeponhurling

ProudDUB wrote: »

Why wouldn't they be? I thought all inter county players were?

I thought it was optional , rather than automatic ?
Could be wrong though.

ProudDUB

keeponhurling wrote: »

Sure even if they somehow could pressure a resolution, not likely they would be picked for first 15

Maybe, maybe not. But it would be good if there was a system in place whereby disputes like this could be resolved & kept in house, without big messy dramas being playing out in the full glare of the media. No one benefits from that. Players leaving the the panel should be the last resort.

Clareman

Very strong rumours of "mis-conduct" by a certain member of management and a number of ladies, maybe even a student involved. His relationship with a sister of a former manager is over following inappropriate photos on a phone.

windy shepard henderson

Clareman wrote: »

Very strong rumours of "mis-conduct" by a certain member of management and a number of ladies, maybe even a student involved. His relationship with a sister of a former manager is over following inappropriate photos on a phone.

now if this is true . . . . . . . :eek:!!!!! are you sure there not mistaking him for marty morrisey by any chance ?

sasta le

This related to the latest droppings?

windy shepard henderson

sasta le wrote: »

This related to the latest droppings?

sounds to be slightly above just going for a night out on the dry ? ........if true of course

sasta le

Clareman wrote: »

Very strong rumours of "mis-conduct" by a certain member of management and a number of ladies, maybe even a student involved. His relationship with a sister of a former manager is over following inappropriate photos on a phone.

can you pm what's going on

Clareman

I don't think it's related to any of the droppings, just showing that there might be other things on some people's minds

feargale

sasta le wrote: »

can you pm what's going on

At a guess, in one word I'd say sex. It should have no bearing on hurling unless:
1. The law has been breached, e.g. by the involvement of underage persons, or
2. The activity caused the horses to stampede through Ennis causing serious injury to persons or property.

LuckyGent88

Clareman wrote: »

Very strong rumours of "mis-conduct" by a certain member of management and a number of ladies, maybe even a student involved. His relationship with a sister of a former manager is over following inappropriate photos on a phone.

Wow wow wow, what's going on here.

citykat

Clareman wrote: »

Very strong rumours of "mis-conduct" by a certain member of management and a number of ladies, maybe even a student involved. His relationship with a sister of a former manager is over following inappropriate photos on a phone.

Good man. You've just tarred all of the management team with that statement...

Orizio

So who is the senior player that didn't get punished while the other lads did?

Limestone Cowboy

citykat wrote: »

Good man. You've just tarred all of the management team with that statement...

You wouldn't need to go on boards to hear it, I heard the same thing at the game v Dublin. Rumour mill is in full swing at the moment though so I wouldn't believe all I'd hear.

Browney7

citykat wrote: »

Good man. You've just tarred all of the management team with that statement...

Didn't Davy do something similar before along the lines of "I'm not naming names but some fellas I hurled with were on harder stuff than drink"

keeponhurling

All these rumours and discipline issues seem to have improved performance as seen in our first win of the year v Dublin.

Perhaps it's more rumours we need ?

fabsoul

keeponhurling wrote: »

All these rumours and discipline issues seem to have improved performance as seen in our first win of the year v Dublin.

Perhaps it's more rumours we need ?

No no lol. We just need a new manager

LuckyGent88

So what do we all make of this statement released by the squad and management?

Probably creates more questions and answers imo and the mere fact that they have to release a statement spells trouble to me.

One thing that I really hope doesn't come from this is a strain on friendships. Davy o holloran and nicky would have grown up best mates with most of that squad so I hope no friendships will be affected by the decisions. They will surely be disappointed that there mates haven't backed them up. I don't see a reason why Davy o holloran had to lie about the treatment of them. Either the rest of the squad haven't the balls to stand up to Davy Fitz or else Davy I holloran has blatantly lied which I see no reason for him not to.

Don't think we have heard the end of this story.

http://www.the42.ie/clare-hurling-statement-1999593-Mar2015/

Keano

Nice of their former teammates to pretty much call them liars...

It will impact friendships and moral how cannot it not?

Clareman

Wow, some statement

“The Clare senior hurling panel and management have met on the recent disciplinary issues that have been aired in the public domain.

The disciplinary issues didn't air in the public domain, the issues with players being out was dealt with in house. The players refusal to accept the punishment and then speak to the press happened in the public domain. Also, they weren't recent, the issues occurred over a month ago (Friday the 13th of Feb)

“All involved are happy that the matter was dealt with fairly.

No they're not, 2 players involved clearly didn't think the matter was dealt with fairly so they left the panel and spoke to the press. Also, only 1 matter was dealt with here but the first part of the statement clearly states that there were issues, was only 1 issue dealt with?

“While there are numerous inaccuracies reported in the media, on social media and in a former player’s statement,

I for 1 find this statement very open ended, what inaccuracies? Grammar? Dates? Facts? If yo uwant to make a statement like this then you should back it up.

the matter is now closed and we, as a group, are happy to move forward, united and to continue to enjoy working hard for Clare hurling.”

This is great news, the season starts now.