Clare GAA discussion thread

thinkstoomuch1

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/clares-colm-galvin-pursuing-his-american-dream-321813.html
I posted two weeks ago I felt clare scenario was being blown out propionate by some and there was no real evidence bar circumstancesal to say what halloran said was true and imo he's failure to make further statements to back it up, the non backing up of he's allegations of bullying so to speak by other players, louganne and daly and o Connor of this world not saying anything against Davy and galvin speaking highly Davy and moral in the camp would seem suggest Davy halloran who is fine player deemed to be the only one with any major problems in the clare camp

I'm not one for moral victories I despise them truth be told but the one team in Ireland, the only team you can gauge league game form, in a sense they don't want to loose at all is the greatest manager all time and greatest team all time Is cody KK and twice back to back in knowlan park, clare went toe to toe with KK never flinched huge sign teams are united and still believe in Davy and imo absolutely correct to go sweeper possession game v them as this orthodox style man to man won't beat kilkenny as their kings of it

Most league games this year for clare bar the cork game they got around plus twenty on the score board and around eighteen or close to it in each of the last two KK games from play to imo suggest while full back is a problem in clare, scoring is not and against limerick I have no doubt clare with a double sweeper will win as once they get possession they will score

I always judge standards of KK the standard bearers, and Davy record since he became the manager v KK is played four games, won one, lost three all by a point and two of those in knowlan park so while they have bit do beat KK and two losses yes are set back if play KK considering clare beat KK under twenty one two final should negate that to a degree imo I don't think clare will fear limerick at all at all and imo only teams I think beat KK championship are clare now

I can't see tipp beating KK, as KK have the superior mentality over them in too many big games and cork would have a chance but it is seriously diminished by Joyce injury and cahalane injury problems at full back

To go up to KK and show intent and hunger twice back to back weeks to a KK team that normally don't loose at home imo is a huge huge positive.
clare I have no doubt have some issues but certainly not as bad as some make out to be imo and once clare sort them will be a serious serious all Ireland contenders

Davy record is proven in the game , got waterford to the all Ireland final,he Reinvented an old team who if had got a few years earlier imo would won all the Ireland , done well with lit, won senior all Ireland with clare
There's no other better man you could say In a better option to manage them now , daly could do good job but if you compare both Fitz record imo is better

Of course daly is nice and upsets no one but to be fair just cause Davy irated people now is imo no reason to ignore he's a superb coach, very tactical astutely minded

Daly said it in the irish examiner at the start of the year before it all blew off that people were waiting for their time to jump on Davy and want him out if he had league defeats.

I Don't doubt that league division two hurling is a huge setback next year, however it won't affect them this year in the significant difference is those two games v kilkenny showed how good clare can be.

Limerick won't test clare like kilkenny at all at all
Davy term should be reviewed at the end of the year like all managers but at the moment he fully deserves to finish he's term

He get profiled as a total dictator , I doubt this very much.
Kinnerk got on with him fine as coach. Over he's record as coach, very few ex players spoke against him.
People's who jump on he's training methods forget he was the man with the organisation of the miwadi and biscuits in he's own house to clear the air meeting before and also said this week he would allow the lads have a break from a few days training

He does give tough love, but he totally backed the players this week after defeats and said he was proud of them, I think to be fair he always backed he's team,he just understandable he knew clare imo h had a rotten culture of so long in poor standards he demands and expects high standard as he wants clare be the best they can be.
Hes demands of players are nothing he to be fair didn't demand himself of a player

He's hardly the enemy within being made out to be in some circles by clare imo
He's a winner at the end of the day. He is Not everyones cup of tea but if I had a choice him or tj Ryan as manager my county for the game in may, I'd choose Davy every single time as while tj will go with the flow, won't upset anyone, won't question anything from the board etc when push comes to shove, that lack of ruthless conviction comes through in he's management where Davy bold, residential me against the rest helps he's team
Crucially one huge difference is Davy will as the 2013 finals showed will change style of play when needed as he played the orthodox style and sweeper when he had to
Imo I rate Davy as a superb coach, tactical wise very very good.
Galvin said Davy was totally supportive to him and they will still be in touch during the summer
This talk Davy will destroy the team imo is from fans in none majority players said this
Sunday was as close league game get to championship intensity and I saw no signs clare were playing as a team that manager lost the dressing room
If so KK would have ruthlessly demolished them
Last year similar stories about mcguiness and article Dublin paper mcguiness style training suffocation team more or less yet it wasn't the case at all, in players believed in him
Like Davy, mcguiness imo deserves benft doubt then in he had won the all Ireland with like Davy, had huge input building that success
If a manager has proven himself all Ireland most of the time deserves backing
Clare didn't just win the all Ireland by scraping to it, demolished limerick and over two games dominated cork and fully deserved the win
And while a lot had parts to play Davy was the manager that over saw this

If what halloran said was true I be against it totally but judging by galvin support Davy, statements panel, no other voices back halloran and the likes of louganne still backing Davy and daly imo Davy is innocent until proven guilty and team seem to back him totally on the last week events on off the field
I for one would no way rule out clare at all at all

keeponhurling

Vanolder wrote: »

Lads, what way will your midfield line out come summer now that Galvin is gone? He's a big spoke in the way Davy wants them playing.... Limerick look way off but on their day James Ryan and Paul Brown are a match for any pairing - going to be tough to fill this problem position.

Is it fair to say that if management had known from the start of the year that Galvin wasn't available for the championship, they would have used the league to try other options ?

keeponhurling

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/clares-colm-galvin-pursuing-his-american-dream-321813.html
I for one would no way rule out clare at all at all

Yes as you say we did go toe-to-toe with Kilkenny, but ultimately we were relegated and only beat Dublin.

We also went toe-to-toe with Cork and Wexford in last year's championship, but we didn't win a match.

And note that in the first Kilkenny league game they had a depleted team and had nothing to play for.

thinkstoomuch1

keeponhurling wrote: »

Yes as you say we did go toe-to-toe with Kilkenny, but ultimately we were relegated and only beat Dublin.

We also went toe-to-toe with Cork and Wexford in last year's championship, but we didn't win a match.

And note that in the first Kilkenny league game they had a depleted team and had nothing to play for.

Valid points and I agree relegated is not good but crucially last two games showed huge improvement in clare lessons were being learned
In relation KK fielding poor team ist day, no logic in as they proved ist game in cork so called weak teams no team KK dna programed be walked over

And last week was full strength KK team more or less
Galvin interview today really showed clearly beyond doubt he great relationship Davy hugely awe him like what I told many clare lads are also and again until evidence back up halloran claims come out Davy deserves innocent until proven guilty
Beating Dublin a Dublin team clearly up for the win was good result
Compare to limerick yes while not getting complete performance but in tougher division in six games ye played five game ye played ye still got level performance above limerick produced against teams lower division

Limerick is game definer for clare but I believe they will win and also give a performance that day

Mehapoy

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Valid points and I agree relegated is not good but crucially last two games showed huge improvement in clare lessons were being learned
In relation KK fielding poor team ist day, no logic in as they proved ist game in cork so called weak teams no team KK dna programed be walked over

And last week was full strength KK team more or less
Galvin interview today really showed clearly beyond doubt he great relationship Davy hugely awe him like what I told many clare lads are also and again until evidence back up halloran claims come out Davy deserves innocent until proven guilty
Beating Dublin a Dublin team clearly up for the win was good result
Compare to limerick yes while not getting complete performance but in tougher division in six games ye played five game ye played ye still got level performance above limerick produced against teams lower division

Limerick is game definer for clare but I believe they will win and also give a performance that day

Seriously what do you expect colm galvin to say? He's hardly going to lop in a verbal granade and ignite it all again and then go off for the summer, no matter what his state of mind he's going to say all the right things in an interview, I'd look at his actions rather than his words to be honest...

thinkstoomuch1

Mehapoy wrote: »

Seriously what do you expect colm galvin to say? He's hardly going to lop in a verbal granade and ignite it all again and then go off for the summer, no matter what his state of mind he's going to say all the right things in an interview, I'd look at his actions rather than his words to be honest...

But sure with this view in essence why was so completely complementary Davy. Could said leaving for usa etc etc but didn't actually as I'm sure you will find by reading it, said Davy will be communicated him during summer, he said Davy was hugely supportive and be fair said wanted go in last few years but stayed and Davy knew for time consider it and he these thoughts before whole scenario sparked off

Take what you choose make it, but he praised Davy no end, if he'd problem said he leaving etc etc why praise manager

Majority panel back Davy, galvin no problem yet still people say ah what else going say
With level support against Davy even father on board if half panel walked Davy dire trouble so players unlike cork strikes start where Gerald mac was seen as hero by many and rightly so always had huge case fight
If problems that bad players would walked simple as and Davy be under no option but to go even father chairman as support against Davy is huge
Players back Davy
No one yet has shown anyone bar halloran problems within
Collins left over dualism and had be fair go with football over father
Davy was right in giving them ultimatum as cork and rochestown cratole proved sooner later dualism catches up with teams
Galvin said loved preparations for games imo nothing wrong training then

Figerty

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

But sure with this view in essence why was so completely complementary Davy. Could said leaving for usa etc etc but didn't actually as I'm sure you will find by reading it, said Davy will be communicated him during summer, he said Davy was hugely supportive and be fair said wanted go in last few years but stayed and Davy knew for time consider it and he these thoughts before whole scenario sparked off

Take what you choose make it, but he praised Davy no end, if he'd problem said he leaving etc etc why praise manager

Majority panel back Davy, galvin no problem yet still people say ah what else going say
With level support against Davy even father on board if half panel walked Davy dire trouble so players unlike cork strikes start where Gerald mac was seen as hero by many and rightly so always had huge case fight
If problems that bad players would walked simple as and Davy be under no option but to go even father chairman as support against Davy is huge
Players back Davy
No one yet has shown anyone bar halloran problems within
Collins left over dualism and had be fair go with football over father
Davy was right in giving them ultimatum as cork and rochestown cratole proved sooner later dualism catches up with teams
Galvin said loved preparations for games imo nothing wrong training then

Did it cross your mind the real reason Galvin is going to the states? Club issues along with County issues.
The treatment of O'Halloran was putrid management. It's not the first time this has happened.
How many players have made the choice to balance playing for Clare above the manager?
The reality is there is better man management and tactical management available to Clare that Davy.

thinkstoomuch1

Figerty wrote: »

Did it cross your mind the real reason Galvin is going to the states? Club issues along with County issues.
The treatment of O'Halloran was putrid management. It's not the first time this has happened.
How many players have made the choice to balance playing for Clare above the manager?
The reality is there is better man management and tactical management available to Clare that Davy.

Fair enough you say is true but where is the evidence??

No one else has went against Davy
Galvin said paper always wanted go abroad, he's father coaching he's club he said so what the issue last year and hinted return club under stack when returns

No issues imo
I'm going by galvin interview
There is nothing in it support be fair anything against Davy
Until there is then imo no problem with Davy
Did the panel did they not sign statement saying all was fine
No one else complained
Who is better manager than Davy in clare??
One player said there was poor treatment
Why did not nick o connell back him up in interview
Halloran only lad that spoke so as tomas mulchay said at time if true more would speak out but if not you'd wonder
No one yet has spoken out as players be fair is my point

Figerty

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Fair enough you say is true but where is the evidence??

No one else has went against Davy
Galvin said paper always wanted go abroad, he's father coaching he's club he said so what the issue last year and hinted return club under stack when returns

No issues imo
I'm going by galvin interview
There is nothing in it support be fair anything against Davy
Until there is then imo no problem with Davy
Did the panel did they not sign statement saying all was fine
No one else complained
Who is better manager than Davy in clare??
One player said there was poor treatment
Why did not nick o connell back him up in interview
Halloran only lad that spoke so as tomas mulchay said at time if true more would speak out but if not you'd wonder
No one yet has spoken out as players be fair is my point

Talk to the Clonlara lads.. this is not a court. you wont get it in writing.
The Galvin interview pushes all the correct political buttons..but doesn't tell all the story. Read between the unwritten lines about the management changes in Clonlara.
The fact that Davy had issue a letter/statement to justify his actions undermines him. Brian Cody has dealt with similar problems but you never hear about it.
There are U21 management teams that are consistently better over a long period. They Played better intelligent passionate hurling and manage players better. Do some research on how they brought some players around quietly who were in trouble. I'm not going to say it here who and how.

Your point about the players is well made; I agree with you on that. But You don't know who has or hasn't complained.
The dressing room is where the players still in the fold they make their statements. The Mi-wadi meeting is the example of this..note the change in style of play afterwards. The abandonment of the management tactics in the games that followed and the U21 methods were followed after the debacle against Cork.
I think the players are playing for Clare not Davy. There is a tolerance of Davy from what I hear, but that tide can quickly turn. We may win the All-Ireland this year or we might not win a game. Time will tell.
I want the best for Clare as do all Clare people. I don't think we are getting the best.

thinkstoomuch1

Figerty wrote: »

Talk to the Clonlara lads.. this is not a court. you wont get it in writing.
The Galvin interview pushes all the correct political buttons..but doesn't tell all the story. Read between the unwritten lines about the management changes in Clonlara.
The fact that Davy had issue a letter/statement to justify his actions undermines him. Brian Cody has dealt with similar problems but you never hear about it.
There are U21 management teams that are consistently better over a long period. They Played better intelligent passionate hurling and manage players better. Do some research on how they brought some players around quietly who were in trouble. I'm not going to say it here who and how.

Your point about the players is well made; I agree with you on that. But You don't know who has or hasn't complained.
The dressing room is where the players still in the fold they make their statements. The Mi-wadi meeting is the example of this..note the change in style of play afterwards. The abandonment of the management tactics in the games that followed and the U21 methods were followed after the debacle against Cork.
I think the players are playing for Clare not Davy. There is a tolerance of Davy from what I hear, but that tide can quickly turn. We may win the All-Ireland this year or we might not win a game. Time will tell.
I want the best for Clare as do all Clare people. I don't think we are getting the best.

Seriously reading between the lines is presuming to assume with no logic or fact and when some one adds that to this debate I really doubt the merits of their argument
Yes at times you can read from what's said or not but here was not political in galvin gave an opinion but only problem is he praised Davy and no one wants accept this but put a spin on it
He could said I'm leaving that's that
He spoke of admiration for training in the past, faith in the team, he thanked Davy for he's support , in fairness this is no court law as you say but if it was a jury would hardly say this is credible evidence, all your argument is with respect heresy in you know this and that , fair enough you do but you can't expect fans condemned Davy with out proven facts
Any one I know in clare yes be fair Davy has he detractors as he does him self no favours but I'm not hearing any real issues players against him
This talk about talk clonlara etc get real story neither here nor there
Galvin has done nothing imo to say not be believed and he said would travelling before but for exams but now over sees he's chance and spoke fondly return club and county so be fair lads deserves be believed
Absolutely agree regards Davy could said nothing with no statement and louganne even said should dome cody and ignored it, that's only thing Davy done wrong
But on the other side Davy felt growing tide against him so felt get players behind him and I see why as he's profile is always to face a challenge, never holds he voice so if said nothing now then he's critsom say ah he's gone quiet now so he's guilty
He could not win either way imo

Cody got fierce critsom for carter affair such there was widespread fans calling KK radio to voice their disgust and that was mentioned in the book the revolution years by Denis Walsh
Cody kept quiet and said nothing and got away with that stance as always cody way shut mouth catches no flies


As for players dictated the changes after the miwadi and biscuits imo that's incorrect
Davy played the sweeper and possession game with lit and Waterford and was a fan of it
He changed the dynamic of the training in lads prior week before cork munster were burned up and flat and he didn't listen to them but crucially he learned after munster and like all good management he learned from mistakes
You say there's better managers, name them??
Limerick won countless under twenty one three rwo, cork in football, Galway in under age hurling but couldn't win senior so say clare had talent won anyway is imo incorrect
Just watch limerick young golden talent struggle under current set up
Davy was the brave man started Shane o donnell v Cork
But I suppose some will now try say Davy deserves no credit he picked himself
At end of the day bottom line is Davy no angel yes but what he's accused of in current training is yet just heresy in no one has backed up halloran yet
That's the bottom line
Believe me I see enough cork teams lost faith managers down the line that gave up on field, clare at no stage last year did, yes beaten but fought til the end
The hunger was gone and were tired imo and yes Davy has responsibility that however two games v KK showed lot real promise be fair and if players playing for themselves rather manager doubt they would been that competitive not once but twice
You say now players tolerate him but don't like him
At end day it's not personality contest imo it's about winning and they don't have ever like him once they play for him
They did play for him
Did many irish like gatland, know but played for him in the lions and they won

Figerty

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Seriously reading between the lines is presuming to assume with no logic or fact and when some one adds that to this debate I really doubt the merits of their argument
Yes at times you can read from what's said or not but here was not political in galvin gave an opinion but only problem is he praised Davy and no one wants accept this but put a spin on it
He could said I'm leaving that's that
He spoke of admiration for training in the past, faith in the team, he thanked Davy for he's support , in fairness this is no court law as you say but if it was a jury would hardly say this is credible evidence, all your argument is with respect heresy in you know this and that , fair enough you do but you can't expect fans condemned Davy with out proven facts
Any one I know in clare yes be fair Davy has he detractors as he does him self no favours but I'm not hearing any real issues players against him
This talk about talk clonlara etc get real story neither here nor there
Galvin has done nothing imo to say not be believed and he said would travelling before but for exams but now over sees he's chance and spoke fondly return club and county so be fair lads deserves be believed
Absolutely agree regards Davy could said nothing with no statement and louganne even said should dome cody and ignored it, that's only thing Davy done wrong
But on the other side Davy felt growing tide against him so felt get players behind him and I see why as he's profile is always to face a challenge, never holds he voice so if said nothing now then he's critsom say ah he's gone quiet now so he's guilty
He could not win either way imo

Cody got fierce critsom for carter affair such there was widespread fans calling KK radio to voice their disgust and that was mentioned in the book the revolution years by Denis Walsh
Cody kept quiet and said nothing and got away with that stance as always cody way shut mouth catches no flies


As for players dictated the changes after the miwadi and biscuits imo that's incorrect
Davy played the sweeper and possession game with lit and Waterford and was a fan of it
He changed the dynamic of the training in lads prior week before cork munster were burned up and flat and he didn't listen to them but crucially he learned after munster and like all good management he learned from mistakes
You say there's better managers, name them??
Limerick won countless under twenty one three rwo, cork in football, Galway in under age hurling but couldn't win senior so say clare had talent won anyway is imo incorrect
Just watch limerick young golden talent struggle under current set up
Davy was the brave man started Shane o donnell v Cork
But I suppose some will now try say Davy deserves no credit he picked himself
At end of the day bottom line is Davy no angel yes but what he's accused of in current training is yet just heresy in no one has backed up halloran yet
That's the bottom line
Believe me I see enough cork teams lost faith managers down the line that gave up on field, clare at no stage last year did, yes beaten but fought til the end
The hunger was gone and were tired imo and yes Davy has responsibility that however two games v KK showed lot real promise be fair and if players playing for themselves rather manager doubt they would been that competitive not once but twice
You say now players tolerate him but don't like him
At end day it's not personality contest imo it's about winning and they don't have ever like him once they play for him
They did play for him
Did many irish like gatland, know but played for him in the lions and they won

I agree with you on many of the points. there are many great things about Davy.. but the negatives are starting to outweigh.
Anthony Daly..is a better manager. what he achieved with Dublin shouldn't be underestimated. You may differ and you are entitled to.
Last years u21 management are better 'mangers' perhaps coaching shouldn't be confused with managing.
Hearsay is correct to some extent; I'm not going to get myself or boards.ie in trouble by saying everything I know. facts or no facts.

Just one thing. No one has accused Davy O'Halloran of lying either or misrepresenting the ridiculous punishment. That's the other way to portray it.

thinkstoomuch1

Figerty wrote: »

I agree with you on many of the points. there are many great things about Davy.. but the negatives are starting to outweigh.
Anthony Daly..is a better manager. what he achieved with Dublin shouldn't be underestimated. You may differ and you are entitled to.
Last years u21 management are better 'mangers' perhaps coaching shouldn't be confused with managing.
Hearsay is correct to some extent; I'm not going to get myself or boards.ie in trouble by saying everything I know. facts or no facts.

Just one thing. No one has accused Davy O'Halloran of lying either or misrepresenting the ridiculous punishment. That's the other way to portray it.

I agree no one said halloran was lying either and I said before if what he said true it's wrong but my point was no one else backed it up and unfair blame Davy on one voice
I don't see problems questions any manager on field play if valid, have done myself normally if no proven record but I just belive Davy improved every team he ever coached
I totally agree coaching and manage teams two different skillset but I think Davy can has done both
Daly better manager imo he's good manager not a coach as record proved but he's imo not better Davy as Davy record imo better in aside from clare Davy got waterford win munster and all Ireland final shorter time than daly
Daly at times played sweeper with Dublin ineffective games
He's good managers to a degree but terms actually winning all Ireland doubts remain until does it
Like him or not Davy done it in management
I agree he needs to change he ways a bit but he good coach imo

Vanolder

Figerty wrote: »

Talk to the Clonlara lads.. this is not a court. you wont get it in writing.
The Galvin interview pushes all the correct political buttons..but doesn't tell all the story. Read between the unwritten lines about the management changes in Clonlara.
The fact that Davy had issue a letter/statement to justify his actions undermines him. Brian Cody has dealt with similar problems but you never hear about it.
There are U21 management teams that are consistently better over a long period. They Played better intelligent passionate hurling and manage players better. Do some research on how they brought some players around quietly who were in trouble. I'm not going to say it here who and how.

Your point about the players is well made; I agree with you on that. But You don't know who has or hasn't complained.
The dressing room is where the players still in the fold they make their statements. The Mi-wadi meeting is the example of this..note the change in style of play afterwards. The abandonment of the management tactics in the games that followed and the U21 methods were followed after the debacle against Cork.
I think the players are playing for Clare not Davy. There is a tolerance of Davy from what I hear, but that tide can quickly turn. We may win the All-Ireland this year or we might not win a game. Time will tell.
I want the best for Clare as do all Clare people. I don't think we are getting the best.

The Clonlara issue was a final nail of sorts alright.... But the kid also just needs a break.

Mountainlad

Was there something in the Sunday Times about the players getting a text about the statement and being told if they had any issue to reply within the hour. Hardly the united front of solidarity its being portrayed to be.

If that is true would be more evidence that you can't take everything at face value. I think the performance the last day shows that Clare have put the issue behind them but with this setup there's always a fear something else will emerge.

windy shepard henderson

i think sadly though this is the way the gaa is operating at the moment ,even in football , donegal would almost seem an exact parallel to ourselves the way they conducted interviews under jim mcguinness , the kevin cassidey fall out and the general level of professionalism they brought to the game is almost unnatural tyrone and dublin are also the same both have huge squads now and nearly each player is the size of a professional rugby player bere in mind these guys are armatures , it seems to be daveys way to adopt an almost over the top strict setup ,

cody of kilkenny wouldnt be too far away in terms of his strict approach , if i am not mistaking a similar fall out took place in the early days of his tenure where one or two squad players were droped for attending an event at the time in similar fashion to the nickey o connell and davey o'halleran incidences i am open to correction however

the treatment of players is now a huge gaa issue , the fact that everything in this county seems to be done out in the pen within the public eye makes it easier for people to say maybe its just davey or maybe its just a clare thing , i am sure the same thing is happening in other inter county setups up and down the country

i do however buy the term by one person here that said the hurlers are hurling for clare the county and not so much davey the manager , and while i am not his biggest fan i would like to offer an alternative view to some of the posts above

1 nickey o'connell left but his brother did not

2 davey o'halleran will train at least once a week and play for his club in on the same inside forward line as shane o donnell and david reidy both lads he has played hurling with since underage and national school level

3 the players signed a "pact" so to speak in which they outlined there intention to get behind the cause (many people in the county believe that they were too afraid to go against management ? )

4 colum galvin leaves to go to the u.s it is well known he and his brother ian was totally against the sean stack appointment ahead of his father at clonlara , i assume playing in america could hamper his club championship involvement


point i am trying to make is if the players were against or afraid of the current setup they probabley will never get a better shot of ousting mr fitz then now , i just find it very hard to believe that one players brother and another players club mates would be too afraid to make a stand ,

i am not trying to make a case for davey but i think some of the stuff that has been batted around the place of late has been blown out of proportions slightly

Twiceasnice97

Clare won the all Ireland senior title in 2013 .
There is no like for like comparison with Limerick galway or Waterford underage
Outside of that we were in three Munster under 21 finals in a row in 08 09 and 10 losing to tipp twice after really good contests and winning the all ireland in 09. The defeats were to the tipp players who made the difference in 09 and 10 at senior for them.
We followed that up with three all Ireland under 21s in a row with a completely separate group of players.
We should be absolutely coasting through the league by now and should be in every conversation regarding possible all Ireland champions.

Instead we we are hurling badly with a really poor system and we have lost five of the seven competitive match's we have played this year following after the worst defence of an all Ireland win since the back door was introduced.

On top of that we were surrounded by nonsense last year with a constant stream of crying coming from the management about the boogie monster being out to get them and here we are again this year with more of the same thrash.

The manager in the last twelve months has fought with or complained about referees podge playing football the clubs of clare wanting the championship to be played journalists in general and peter o Connell specifically county board delegates in general and Davy Solon specifically. He has fought with his own players this year and accused one of them of lying without making clear what the lies were.
I am absolutely certain that another player misbehaved in the way the other two are accused of doing and i am also sure the management were aware of that. If they were not aware then they are the only people in the county that does didn't know.
That is not credible.

Those who believe that the Clare team is being well managed have a serious hurdle to get over.
The entire focus seems to me to be driven by lowering the standards ad regards what a good season is for these players.

commonsense.

windy shepard henderson wrote:

point i am trying to make is if the players were against or afraid of the current setup they probabley will never get a better shot of ousting mr fitz then now , i just find it very hard to believe that one players brother and another players club mates would be too afraid to make a stand ,

i am not trying to make a case for davey but i think some of the stuff that has been batted around the place of late has been blown out of proportions slightly

Agree with you. I took two things from Nolan Park last Sunday 1) Kk are slipping - we wont know how much until later this year 2) no major problems in the Clare camp. Any team that plays like that are not in any way at war with their manager.
Clare are contenders this year, have no doubt about it.

citykat

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

i think sadly though this is the way the gaa is operating at the moment ,even in football , donegal would almost seem an exact parallel to ourselves the way they conducted interviews under jim mcguinness , the kevin cassidey fall out and the general level of professionalism they brought to the game is almost unnatural tyrone and dublin are also the same both have huge squads now and nearly each player is the size of a professional rugby player bere in mind these guys are armatures , it seems to be daveys way to adopt an almost over the top strict setup ,

cody of kilkenny wouldnt be too far away in terms of his strict approach , if i am not mistaking a similar fall out took place in the early days of his tenure where one or two squad players were droped for attending an event at the time in similar fashion to the nickey o connell and davey o'halleran incidences i am open to correction however

the treatment of players is now a huge gaa issue , the fact that everything in this county seems to be done out in the pen within the public eye makes it easier for people to say maybe its just davey or maybe its just a clare thing , i am sure the same thing is happening in other inter county setups up and down the country

i do however buy the term by one person here that said the hurlers are hurling for clare the county and not so much davey the manager , and while i am not his biggest fan i would like to offer an alternative view to some of the posts above

1 nickey o'connell left but his brother did not

2 davey o'halleran will train at least once a week and play for his club in on the same inside forward line as shane o donnell and david reidy both lads he has played hurling with since underage and national school level

3 the players signed a "pact" so to speak in which they outlined there intention to get behind the cause (many people in the county believe that they were too afraid to go against management ? )

4 colum galvin leaves to go to the u.s it is well known he and his brother ian was totally against the sean stack appointment ahead of his father at clonlara , i assume playing in america could hamper his club championship involvement


point i am trying to make is if the players were against or afraid of the current setup they probabley will never get a better shot of ousting mr fitz then now , i just find it very hard to believe that one players brother and another players club mates would be too afraid to make a stand ,

i am not trying to make a case for davey but i think some of the stuff that has been batted around the place of late has been blown out of proportions slightly

The issue with Davy though surely is the way he 'disciplined' those players. It is the manager's prerogative who he selects to play for him. If a manager drops a player from his panel for whatever reason i.e. behaviour, loss of form whatever, he'll ultimately be judged on results.

Cody has dropped players in the past and in some instances copped a lot of flak for doing so. I know for a fact he didn't insist that those same players demean and debase themselves in front of the rest of the squad. They were cut and that was it.
Cody does have certain expectations and standards but he has never had occasion to get the panel to sign some type of behavioural contract. The players are informed verbally what they have to do in terms of diet, gym work, fitness etc. There is also plenty of support and advice available. It's up to them how much they adhere to the regime. The performances usually reveal those that don't toe the line and the consequences follow. That's Cody's philosophy. He's a facilitator. The players and their desire drive the thing.

I wouldn't make any assumptions on why the brother, club or team mates stayed and how that might reflect on the departed. Every squad has issues that are not known to those outside. At the end of the day, players just want to play regardless of what's going on around them. It's a facet of the singlemindedness that got them to where they are.

windy shepard henderson

citykat wrote: »

The issue with Davy though surely is the way he 'disciplined' those players. It is the manager's prerogative who he selects to play for him. If a manager drops a player from his panel for whatever reason i.e. behaviour, loss of form whatever, he'll ultimately be judged on results.

Cody has dropped players in the past and in some instances copped a lot of flak for doing so. I know for a fact he didn't insist that those same players demean and debase themselves in front of the rest of the squad. They were cut and that was it.
Cody does have certain expectations and standards but he has never had occasion to get the panel to sign some type of behavioural contract. The players are informed verbally what they have to do in terms of diet, gym work, fitness etc. There is also plenty of support and advice available. It's up to them how much they adhere to the regime. The performances usually reveal those that don't toe the line and the consequences follow. That's Cody's philosophy. He's a facilitator. The players and their desire drive the thing.

I wouldn't make any assumptions on why the brother, club or team mates stayed and how that might reflect on the departed. Every squad has issues that are not known to those outside. At the end of the day, players just want to play regardless of what's going on around them. It's a facet of the singlemindedness that got them to where they are.

as far as public humiliation's go what happened last month in the dressing room is nothing. to going on the sunday game last year and telling michael leister along with half the nation that the clubs were all against him , those that played for there clubs the week before the wexford game were at fault and the lads playing inter county football were at fault for last years failures


dont worry 90% of clare supporters are totally against the man for all that stuff what baffles me is the players seem to have no problem with getting on with things , they dont seem to be playing like a side that are in a bad place , i dont think a gun was put to there heads and told "here sign this " nor do i think they have any fear of the man , i think the guy who recorded a half time team talk at L.I.T all those years ago on his mobile phone might sum up what way some of the clare players think, at the back of their minds they must be thinking what we think , something is still working for him for the moment anyway

marco_polo

I'm looking forward to the autobiographies in 10-15 years time.

Hard to know what the players think, for all Davy's flaws they are still a good team with a decent chance of winning silverware (not as high a chance as it should be imo) and as a result even if they don't think much of him (and I am really not convinced that is the case), they will suck it up while he is calling the shots regardless and who could blame them to be honest

thinkstoomuch1

I think at the end of the day the majority of the players would go through thick and thin on the field of play for him and they showed that
He's not a likeable personality for some but he's an outstanding coach imo

Hidalgo

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

as far as public humiliation's go what happened last month in the dressing room is nothing. to going on the sunday game last year and telling michael leister along with half the nation that the clubs were all against him , those that played for there clubs the week before the wexford game were at fault and the lads playing inter county football were at fault for last years failures


dont worry 90% of clare supporters are totally against the man for all that stuff what baffles me is the players seem to have no problem with getting on with things , they dont seem to be playing like a side that are in a bad place , i dont think a gun was put to there heads and told "here sign this " nor do i think they have any fear of the man , i think the guy who recorded a half time team talk at L.I.T all those years ago on his mobile phone might sum up what way some of the clare players think, at the back of their minds they must be thinking what we think , something is still working for him for the moment anyway

Whilst guns weren't put to heads signing the contract was necessary to be part of the panel for the season.

Hidalgo

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

I think at the end of the day the majority of the players would go through thick and thin on the field of play for him and they showed that
He's not a likeable personality for some but he's an outstanding coach imo

Are you sure they're willing to go through thick & thin for Davy rather than for themselves/their familes/.

thinkstoomuch1

Hidalgo wrote: »

Are you sure they're willing to go through thick & thin for Davy rather than for themselves/their familes/.

Look all those that say this and that regards against Davy can spin it whatever way they want and as seen here the theme imo is no matter what he does he won't get credit
The games against KK talk is oh it was they played for themselves against Davy but when poor games he's ruining the team it's nothing at all to do with them

I'm sorry now but it can't be both
Again those say this and that against Davy, say they heard this. They know that, they apparently know things as fact yet in a way they critic Davy for he's views reading too much in to things and adding two plus two and getting ten there doing the same imo with respect
Again people may be correct but where's the evidence against him


Any clare people I talk to yes Davy is not popular but as said by few others posters here in the last week in what says is some stuff said blown out propionate


Facts are panel are old enough and wise enough to make their own decisions
If they wanted to walk they would have as county support over whelming behind them
They didn't, they gave two united, unified togetherness performance twice in two weeks v KK and there team playing for their manager
Galvin spoke glowing of Davy and clare
Yet some say ah read between the lines, he didn't mean it, etc etc etc
If mother Theresa even defend Davy this stage she be accused not being honest


No one backed up halloran
Nicky o connell brother had no problems
Players signed a statement and if they didn't told walk then they could of and Davy was gone but they belive I'm Davy in method to he's madness in a way imo

As for Davy regards dualism he was totally right to call a halt to the shambles and as cork proved it was a disaster, cratole and rochestown struggled since with it
Dublin refused to allow it and also le chin and Walsh said can't be done
How many examples do people want
Davy unlike in cork called it as it was

As for the club's he went the wrong way about it but he had a point regards the club game week before championship in clare way they play requires huge intensity

As for he criticism journalist I don't agree him there he can't control what spoken and should said nothing at all
He imo was wrong there
However being guilty one offence doesn't mean everything else is true
This talk he accused players lying again it's view here, no fact to prove this and this week backed thanked players totally public but he gets no credit here
Since Davy ever tool over been well known he had he's detractors


As for talk he's style crippling clare that style won them the all Ireland and under age titles
If he was unproven I'd begin to go with those views against but he's proven proven manager in the game
One poster agreed he would do well with Galway but doesn't want him in clare
Imo hugely ironic in if he's good enough win all Ireland Galway good enough for clare but problem is yes goes over top at times but Davy challenges everything rubs people up the wrong way and it imo turns people off him despite he's good manager and again players have spoken on and off the field in emphatic fashion this week to suggest they support Davy

If players come out against him then yes he has to go but until then he fully deserves stay with clare

thinkstoomuch1

Hidalgo wrote: »

Are you sure they're willing to go through thick & thin for Davy rather than for themselves/their familes/.

Your counter debate imo is based on circumstances evidence
Facts as many teams showed if team lost dressing room they don't play like they did last two weeks despite who else they play for, manager not anyone else is on line with them so if they have lost faith him won't play
Last two weeks imo prove they still play for their manager

thinkstoomuch1

http://www.clarepeople.com/2014/09/17/davy-fitz-speaks-of-plans-for-2015/
Davy a while back on dualism
He spoke brilliantly and be fair asked for Collins get break from all attention, wished him the best and didn't say Collins alone blame clare failure but one many things
He was right regards dualism affects recovery training etc
Anyone wants use dualism against Davy imo is poor argument as been well proven days dualism are long long gone

I notice how all clare management and undrr twenty one management spoke highly of Davy
Proven successful managers they have no problem with him and all those are strong characters to say then if they had problems in their time with he's management

There's lot opinions out there fair enough but players and management won with Davy and seem behind him

thinkstoomuch1

Hidalgo wrote: »

Whilst guns weren't put to heads signing the contract was necessary to be part of the panel for the season.

I think that was quite acceptable code of practice in where eight weeks from championship and there was bit of unrest
So he gave players the ultimate choice if yere happy yell hsve no problem signing if yere unhappy then ye won't want be part this set up, he needs committed panel
Quite reasonable
As you say no guns put to their heads so not dictator style
Players had a choice they choose Davy
All they had to do was walk and unlike the limerick cork strikes went on and on clsre won would have been over fast as huge support county against Davy, even this stage it fair say many around the country probably go on protest with him judging by fans reaction

I actually think Davy loves clsre hurling so much he would walk if players refused play under him
Davy always says clare were a family, it seems that way in for all their troubles blood is thicker than water as majority stayed loyal to him just like donegal in the cassidy affair as think deep down they know no other better manager for clare at this time

Mountainlad

Its a fact Davy lost the dressing room in Waterford in 2011. That didn't stop them beating Galway out the gate in the quarters. Poor as Galway were, that's a fair turnaround. If you're putting that down to Davy, but are willing to forgive him the shambles that was that years Munster Final than I dunno but I couldn't agree.

He puts his best effort into it, but that is hardly enough? So do pretty much all managers. I have no doubt Colm Bonner did his best with Wexford, a man with a far better pedigree going into it (selector with Waterford in 2002, much more achieved at Fitzgibbon level).

When Fitzgerald got the Waterford job, he took over the second best team in the Country from the year before. That gets forgotten a lot. Clare were brutal, Limerick got hammered by Offaly in 2008, there wasn't much in Wexford either. Even Tipp were only starting out. And by the time Davy left, Clare were still brutal, Limerick were just attempting recovery from internal strife, Galway were poor, and Cork were only starting to come good. In fact they were awful in 2011 as well. They only played Cork twice, and needed extra time in a replay to get it (and may well have been fortunate to get the replay at all.) How would you rate that Cork team compared to now, TTM?

The 2013 All Ireland was a great achievement. That's his saving grace. But I think his timing in getting the jobs he got has been pretty favourable to him. Hes a good coach, no more. He clearly has a high enough opinion of himself, his treatment of officials shouldn't be tolerated by the GAA, not to mention what he said to a WIT player in last years Fitzgibbon. He has an excuse for every failure, and there has been far to many in the last year and a half, for the Clare side that was going well at the start of the league last year and sure didn't he say that he was surprised how well ye were going and how ye hadn't done as much as anyone else, hence building expectations.

But his fans will tell you his whole demeanour is to take the pressure off the players. His media profile has been the making of him, I have no doubt about that. The reality is there are better options for Clare. They may well come good in the championship, but that's the calibre of player they have.

letowski

I think TTM, while you're making some solid points, but one of the biggest issues us Clare supporters are having with Davy, is almost the complete lack of accountability of our performances these last 12 months.We have only won one match. Mountainlad is quite right with his post. We were way off the pace last year in which Davy had his team's touch, striking and speed were particularly poor, considering these qualities are our strengths. Against your county last year, he dropped the starting keeper, played Conor McGrath isolated at FF, Galvin at center forward, Tony Kelly far right away from the play and restricted Podge in coming out the field. When supporters look for accountability of the poor displays, Davy said it was James McGraths fault, Peter O'Connell, the clubs, etc. How can this be? I'm not just saying this, I'm actually like you quite a fan of Davy and believe in his philosophy in how this team is best set up. When we won in 2013, his tactics were very clever and accurate and he deserved massive praise. I gave him credit on here last week in KK for the way his team was setup, but the reality is the team's play has looked restrained and suppressed for a long time. What's frustrating is there seems to be a stubbornness with him to change tac and accept responsibility for some of our shortcomings. All of us just want to see the team go play to their potential, the way we know they can.

For me though, the thing I was really excited about this Clare team, like all supporters when we won in '13, was how the team would develop over time. We must have had an average age of about 22/23 and we all couldn't wait for the first game the following season against KK in CP. It's the biggest critic I'd have of Davy, is we just haven't improved, developed, evolved into the type of team we could have, despite all the talent and potential we undoubtedly have. He has consistently failed to address our 2 biggest weaknesses in that the team lacks proper defensive organisation that leaks goals and our ball winning difficulties in midfield/half forward. Every county has their own problems no doubt, but managements in KK, Tipp and Cork I think have done well to curtail their shortcomings. But I can't honestly say we have, because our performances so far don't suggest we are serious contenders for the AI, despite the talent there.

When Davy's tenure does eventually end and people analyse it, your right he will get huge praise for 2013. But he will also be judged on how his team developed in the preceding years. If the form lines continue and we get another year of stagnation, I think the supporters have the right to question whether Davy is the right manager to take this team forward.

thinkstoomuch1

letowski wrote: »

I think TTM, while you're making some solid points, but one of the biggest issues us Clare supporters are having with Davy, is almost the complete lack of accountability of our performances these last 12 months.We have only won one match. Mountainlad is quite right with his post. We were way off the pace last year in which Davy had his team's touch, striking and speed were particularly poor, considering these qualities are our strengths. Against your county last year, he dropped the starting keeper, played Conor McGrath isolated at FF, Galvin at center forward, Tony Kelly far right away from the play and restricted Podge in coming out the field. When supporters look for accountability of the poor displays, Davy said it was James McGraths fault, Peter O'Connell, the clubs, etc. How can this be? I'm not just saying this, I'm actually like you quite a fan of Davy and believe in his philosophy in how this team is best set up. When we won in 2013, his tactics were very clever and accurate and he deserved massive praise. I gave him credit on here last week in KK for the way his team was setup, but the reality is the team's play has looked restrained and suppressed for a long time. What's frustrating is there seems to be a stubbornness with him to change tac and accept responsibility for some of our shortcomings. All of us just want to see the team go play to their potential, the way we know they can.

For me though, the thing I was really excited about this Clare team, like all supporters when we won in '13, was how the team would develop over time. We must have had an average age of about 22/23 and we all couldn't wait for the first game the following season against KK in CP. It's the biggest critic I'd have of Davy, is we just haven't improved, developed, evolved into the type of team we could have, despite all the talent and potential we undoubtedly have. He has failed to address our 2 biggest weaknesses in that the team lacks proper defensive organisation that leaks goals and our ball winning difficulties in midfield/half forward. Every county has their own problems no doubt, but managements in KK, Tipp and Cork I think have done well to curtail their shortcomings. But I can't honestly say we have, because our performances so far don't suggest we are serious contenders for the AI, despite the talent there.

When Davy's tenure does eventually end and people analyse it, your right he will get huge praise for 2013. But he will also be judged on how his team developed in the preceding years. If the form lines continue and we get another year of stagnation, I think the supporters have the right to question whether Davy is the right manager to take this team forward.

I totally agree and always been on the belief no matter who is manager there's comes time any sport no manager should be immune from critsom and a review end of each term where applicable to make sure he doesn't out grow the team


The main debate here which is gone bit off track to original point debate was all this talk regards bullying in training etc players against him is so far nor being proven at all at all and clearly Davy anti fans would like to believe there is

As regards this team he doesn't deserve eternal immunity as manager for one all Ireland to hsve job as long as he wants but he does not deserve the total anti bias regards him just cause one voice had a problem with he's methods and deserves be allowed finish he's term as he's record is imo good, ist year promotion div one, good progress qualifiers and clearly tired team in qualifier after back to back games lost limerick by only four
Next year destroyed limerick and cork
Yes mountain lad cork team were no great shakes to old cork teams but clare dominated limerick and cork over 140 minutes hurling

Last year clsre were tired and he is responsible imo for not getting the balance training right bur clare died boots on v wexford and hsve shown league progress when KK are ultimate litmus test imo

In fact Davy bar Waterford all Ireland final even with Waterford in the championship two more times an old tired Waterford team well past there best when he took over never disgraced against KK

Davy done brilliant job with Waterford consider he took over team huge baggage failed get all Ireland final and as good Gerald mac and Justin done were imo too nice in Waterford, Davy hard ruthless edge got them to all Irelands final, yes it was awful cork team managed badly beat horrible munster final replay but he got every last inch out of a Waterford team who were in decline

He's record lit two fitzgibnn cups is very good
Bonner record wit with four is better absolutely but he's record wexford is poor ti be honest
He's selector reign with Waterford is good but again never got all Ireland final as Davy did

Davy proven proven manager inter county
I agree mountain lad some managers are lucky with timing as proven by Michael bond who record afyee proved he was lucky and john Allen who lucky in o grady built that cork team, I'd coached cork team win all Ireland myself imo
Allen was clearly out of he depth as year after and limerick proved in tactical side things

Davy took over bunch young talents hurlers and cultivate all Ireland success
He brought in the likes of kinnerk back room team etc, he did this no one else
Just cause you win under age is not golden ticket to senior, must have manager to get them to senior
Davy done that

Cyril farell worked with Davy Fitzgerald in lit with great clare man jimmy brown and fraggie Murphy of cork and they always spoke highly Davy
Waterford with greatest respect them, I think few begrudge not all them on Davy as he had no nonsense approach
He's showing all Ireland medals pissed them off but Davy was right few Waterford players talking the talk, no medals, he had two
Again it's said there's better than Davy now for clare?
Fair enough it's an opinion
But who are these better managers???
Who has a better record proven senior inter county available take over clare now??

Daly could be good but is he better, no guarantee
He's style of play with the ineffective sweeper was exposed by kilkenny many times and he's Dublin got beaten by cork in a semi final where the point was made cork were not great
That's true but Davy beat cork
Last year clare were not successful
But this year based on KK games real signs clare will be contenders

I'll put it this way I'd rather be in clare shoe's with Davy than Galway who have out grown cunningham , limerick have a nice manager tj Ryan but ruthless conviction lacking and while deserves credit promoted and way they played still unproven is Derek mcgrath
Clare have a manager won an all Ireland
No one can deny him that
He should be reviewed at the end of the year absolutely but he's record deserves support for the year imo
Different story if he was unproven imo

Mountainlad

I won't derail the thread but I'm like a dog with a bone on the Waterford team under Fitzgeralds tenure so I might PM you later.

Figerty

The reality of Waterford last match with Davy in charge was he never set out to win that game. He laid out the team to keep the score down. He stiffled one of the most creative teams Waterford had with a 'system'. No doubt he had to curtail the excesses and some player power but it destroyed the heart of that team. The Waterford players had made such a deal of getting rid of their previous manager, like Offaly had done so with Babs, they had no choice but hurl for who ever was in charge.

I don't think the Clare dressing room is as harmonious as you might hope. We have lost 5 first class players from the dressing room that should be making that team. The subs are now thin on the ground.
There are many good things about him, but the reality is that he is becoming a real problem. His arrogance on the radio recently talking about what he is going to do with this team over the next 2 or 3 years defies belief. He hasn't been appointed (unlike his father) to a lifetime position...

thinkstoomuch1

Mountainlad wrote: »

I won't derail the thread but I'm like a dog with a bone on the Waterford team under Fitzgeralds tenure so I might PM you later.

There's no need to pm thanks appreciated but there's no need to, I won't be doing pm regards Davy
I have different views to yourself and know you never been fan which is fair enough
I don't agree all Davy, things disagree with but imo not bad as he portray to be imo

letowski

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

I totally agree and always been on the belief no matter who is manager there's comes time any sport no manager should be immune from critsom and a review end of each term where applicable to make sure he doesn't out grow the team


The main debate here which is gone bit off track to original point debate was all this talk regards bullying in training etc players against him is so far nor being proven at all at all and clearly Davy anti fans would like to believe there is

As regards this team he doesn't deserve eternal immunity as manager for one all Ireland to hsve job as long as he wants but he does not deserve the total anti bias regards him just cause one voice had a problem with he's methods and deserves be allowed finish he's term as he's record is imo good, ist year promotion div one, good progress qualifiers and clearly tired team in qualifier after back to back games lost limerick by only four
Next year destroyed limerick and cork
Yes mountain lad cork team were no great shakes to old cork teams but clare dominated limerick and cork over 140 minutes hurling

Last year clsre were tired and he is responsible imo for not getting the balance training right bur clare died boots on v wexford and hsve shown league progress when KK are ultimate litmus test imo

In fact Davy bar Waterford all Ireland final even with Waterford in the championship two more times an old tired Waterford team well past there best when he took over never disgraced against KK

Davy done brilliant job with Waterford consider he took over team huge baggage failed get all Ireland final and as good Gerald mac and Justin done were imo too nice in Waterford, Davy hard ruthless edge got them to all Irelands final, yes it was awful cork team managed badly beat horrible munster final replay but he got every last inch out of a Waterford team who were in decline

He's record lit two fitzgibnn cups is very good
Bonner record wit with four is better absolutely but he's record wexford is poor ti be honest
He's selector reign with Waterford is good but again never got all Ireland final as Davy did

Davy proven proven manager inter county
I agree mountain lad some managers are lucky with timing as proven by Michael bond who record afyee proved he was lucky and john Allen who lucky in o grady built that cork team, I'd coached cork team win all Ireland myself imo
Allen was clearly out of he depth as year after and limerick proved in tactical side things

Davy took over bunch young talents hurlers and cultivate all Ireland success
He brought in the likes of kinnerk back room team etc, he did this no one else
Just cause you win under age is not golden ticket to senior, must have manager to get them to senior
Davy done that

Cyril farell worked with Davy Fitzgerald in lit with great clare man jimmy brown and fraggie Murphy of cork and they always spoke highly Davy
Waterford with greatest respect them, I think few begrudge not all them on Davy as he had no nonsense approach
He's showing all Ireland medals pissed them off but Davy was right few Waterford players talking the talk, no medals, he had two
Again it's said there's better than Davy now for clare?
Fair enough it's an opinion
But who are these better managers???
Who has a better record proven senior inter county available take over clare now??

Daly could be good but is he better, no guarantee
He's style of play with the ineffective sweeper was exposed by kilkenny many times and he's Dublin got beaten by cork in a semi final where the point was made cork were not great
That's true but Davy beat cork
Last year clare were not successful
But this year based on KK games real signs clare will be contenders

I'll put it this way I'd rather be in clare shoe's with Davy than Galway who have out grown cunningham , limerick have a nice manager tj Ryan but ruthless conviction lacking and while deserves credit promoted and way they played still unproven is Derek mcgrath
Clare have a manager won an all Ireland
No one can deny him that
He should be reviewed at the end of the year absolutely but he's record deserves support for the year imo
Different story if he was unproven imo

I think to answer you're question, Maloney and O'Connor are the guys people would like to see eventually, but they are unproven as you said. I agree with you, he is probably better than alot of the managers you have mentioned above, in terms of success and tactical awareness (when he gets it right). I like Daly, but I wouldn't be sure at all about him managing Clare. All his teams have a big emphasis on physicality, something this team just doesn't have.

I guess we will have to see how this year unfolds. He has a good record against Limerick and his teams have a record of coming fighting under pressure. Hopefully we will get a good performance next month.

windy shepard henderson

good win for the footballers today in the park wining 1-14 to 2-09 , a million miles better in terms of performances from last last week in limerick and the last 4 weeks in general ,

going into the game it was seen as a must win game to avoid the drop but with the unlikely result coming from clonmell would have been enough to save us on points scoring difference , the expectation in the county was probabley a little higher then where we finished but in fairness the squad has been hit with a number of injuries through out the league , cathal macinerney plaayed no more then 10 minuets against armagh and no more through out the league , david tubridy missed the last 4 games , enda coughlan made a return today from a cruciate while eoin cleary has been out all season recovering from an operation , this coincided with the retirements of rory donnelly , michael o'shea laurence healy a, along with the the departure of a number of players due to travel or work comitments , podge mcmahon from clondegad probabley the most notable , so in truth with such a depleated squad it has to go down as an achivement to stay in the division

the game itself was tight early on with only a hand fuil of scores in the first 20 minuets , in this period clare kicked a number of scorable chances wide, ad there 0-04 to 0-1 lead was quickly wiped out by a sean quigley goal , in which kevin hartnet was probably unluckey not to get a free out , clare kicked on to lead 0-08 to 1-03 at half time

second half started as the first finshed with pat bourke getting more into the game his goal along with a couple of shane mcgrath points left 9 points between the sides , the distance between the sides remaind for most of the half but when martin mcmahon got black carded it started a change , fermanagh started to get more and more into the game , with our lads dead on there feat they dominated the puck outs and scored at will , a sean quigley penilty brought it back down to 4 points fermanagh kicked another two points from the next two clare kick outs to leave two between the sides and everyone sweating in the park , thankfully the full time whistle sounded shortly afterwards the crowed of 950 ( nice try clare county board tag on another near 1000 on to that again) lwent home happy

shane mcgrath with 4 points from play pat bourke with 1-03 were probabley our best players along with garry brennan but in truth almost everyone had a descent outing today fermanagh are no slouches either and will be very much at home in division 2 next year

Clareman

Great win by the footballers today, not a bad season with 3 wins and a loss, I know there was a bit of talk of promotion but with the injuries that was never likely, now onto the championship, well done to all concerned.

Twiceasnice97

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

I totally agree and always been on the belief no matter who is manager there's comes time any sport no manager should be immune from critsom and a review end of each term where applicable to make sure he doesn't out grow the team


The main debate here which is gone bit off track to original point debate was all this talk regards bullying in training etc players against him is so far nor being proven at all at all and clearly Davy anti fans would like to believe there is

As regards this team he doesn't deserve eternal immunity as manager for one all Ireland to hsve job as long as he wants but he does not deserve the total anti bias regards him just cause one voice had a problem with he's methods and deserves be allowed finish he's term as he's record is imo good, ist year promotion div one, good progress qualifiers and clearly tired team in qualifier after back to back games lost limerick by only four

I am not going to get in to a big toing and froing about this but i take grave exception to the statement highlighted above.

It gives the impression that Davy O`Halloran is some kind of ludicrous troublemaker stirring things because he was caught messing.
I don`t know halloran personally but i do know the clare hurling seen as well as anybody and whatever else o`halloran is that is not a fair description of him. No one who has dealt with him would make that criticism.
He has always been dedicated and given his best, he was man of the match in clares first game at under 21 in 2012 but lost his place after the munster final and there wasn`t a peep out of him about it after.

Himself and nicky o`connell were described in a local paper in county clare as having `turned their back on clare hurling`. That story came from a journalist of very long standing in county clare who ihas also been a county board official for years and years.
make of that what you will. It was only after this attempt by somebody or other to have the last word that davy o`halloran told his side of the story to the media.
his character was impugned in a very grave way in that article and he is to be commended for having the courage to defend himself.

I will also say with out fear of contradiction that there were other individuals that took drink, admitted it and were not punished. The entire county of clare is aware of the identity of one individual. In fact the only people in the county who seemd to be blissfully unaware of this fact when they nailed the two o`connells and o`halloran to the cross were the clare county management.

as regards the statement which came out which was wholly unnessecary it served no purpose other than to make a mockery of the entire Clare set up.
There were claims about players telling untruths in it and about innacuracies.
well i am certain that they were out when they shouldnt have been
i believe the three of them began their punishment
i believe that another player told one of them that he committed the same offence and i believe the management knew about it.
The two players who had no game time of any real significance decided to through their hat at the bizarre punishment dished out but tots decided to continue because he felt he had a chance of playing and has been vindicated in that when he was brought on as a sub against kilkenny.
I believe that they wrote a letter to the squad which was torn up in front of some people by an individual.
I believe also that the players were informed by text or some other form of media that there was a statement being released and that they had one hour to object if they felt strongly enough to do so.
I feel it demeaned the lot of them that none of them did object but i also understand fully why they did not.
Can you imagine the scenario that would have unfolded for clare when it became clear that this was attempted and the squad was divided and some of them refused to support the manager.

Finally this nonsense about an anti davy Bias that is about the place.

Davy Fitzgerald was the goalkeeper on the first truly great clare team. he was an iconic individual as part of that group that inspired everything that has come after.
He took LIT to two fitzgibbon cup victorys containing lots of clare players and in 2013 he brought Clare to win an all Ireland Title with a team of young players that the county is absolutely crazy about yet in less than twelve months he managed to turn the vast majority of Clare supporters against him from former players to club players to familys of players to ordinary supporters in the street who wouldnt see a hurley other than on the television.
Nobody did that only the man himself. He has engaged in some of the most bizarre carry on in the last twelve months that has ever been seen in the gaa. It is truly depressing as a passionate Clare hurling supporter to think that the recent nonsense appears to indicate that not a single lesson has been learned from the debacle of 2014 when we gave the weakest defence of an all ireland title since the back door was introduced.
of the squad that went to croke park in 2013 there are now as far as i can see 10 players no longer in the squad.
two of those were retirements Patrick kelly is gone to kerry but markham mcinerney the two collins galvin o`connell and o`halloran have all left
Think about that for a second.
all of those players have all ireland medals and were in a squad of really young players that had won a senior title but when they weighed up sticking it out against going they decided to leave for their own reasons.
Kilkenny have lads of 24 and 25 making their team after 5 and 6 years in the squad because they are prepared to stick it out that long.
Clare will not have that because the regime is too controlling and also because the management select from a very limited pool of players in the league.
We have established players playing every single game, we are told its because we have to compete in 1 A yet in two of three seasons we could have put out the camogie team and ended up playing the relegation match anyway.
lads have become frustrated
now on a final note of optimism.
These are very good players.
There have been one or two indications that a relaxation has come
the manager has not behaved poorly on the sideline to date.
If this indicates that lessons have been learned then we have a chance.

Twiceasnice97

incidentally thinkstoomuch as regards our style.
we won no underage titles playing the way the seniors do.
our under 21 and minor teams do not use a sweeper.
they play in a reasonably orthodox way up to midfield there are two players very close to the opposition goals and one of the corner forwards plays as a sort of second centreforward.
you simply do not see a sweeper behind our half back line and we certainly dont have shane o`donnell on his own with no one within 40 yards of him

keeponhurling

Think Davy Fitz has been discussed to death on here.

So nice win last weekend over Fermanagh in the football, who are now a division 2 team.
Can we be quietly optimistic going into the championship, given lads are coming back from injury now?
Any challenge games scheduled ?

Similarly the hurlers aren't too far off the big guns, with plenty of potential for improvement
The limerick game looks very winnable, we'd probably be favourites.
One big championship win and the league is quickly forgotten

Vanolder

keeponhurling wrote: »

Think Davy Fitz has been discussed to death on here.

So nice win last weekend over Fermanagh in the football, who are now a division 2 team.
Can we be quietly optimistic going into the championship, given lads are coming back from injury now?
Any challenge games scheduled ?

Similarly the hurlers aren't too far off the big guns, with plenty of potential for improvement
The limerick game looks very winnable, we'd probably be favourites.
One big championship win and the league is quickly forgotten

Clare are massive favourites - Limerick are not going well at all- I'd fear a 2006 type beating tbh.

LuckyGent88

Off to the u21 hurling final now. Hopefully a good game and the wind doesn't ruin the game.
Hon the townies

archieknox

Twiceasnice97 wrote: »

I am not going to get in to a big toing and froing about this but i take grave exception to the statement highlighted above.

It gives the impression that Davy O`Halloran is some kind of ludicrous troublemaker stirring things because he was caught messing.
I don`t know halloran personally but i do know the clare hurling seen as well as anybody and whatever else o`halloran is that is not a fair description of him. No one who has dealt with him would make that criticism.
He has always been dedicated and given his best, he was man of the match in clares first game at under 21 in 2012 but lost his place after the munster final and there wasn`t a peep out of him about it after.

Himself and nicky o`connell were described in a local paper in county clare as having `turned their back on clare hurling`. That story came from a journalist of very long standing in county clare who ihas also been a county board official for years and years.
make of that what you will. It was only after this attempt by somebody or other to have the last word that davy o`halloran told his side of the story to the media.
his character was impugned in a very grave way in that article and he is to be commended for having the courage to defend himself.

I will also say with out fear of contradiction that there were other individuals that took drink, admitted it and were not punished. The entire county of clare is aware of the identity of one individual. In fact the only people in the county who seemd to be blissfully unaware of this fact when they nailed the two o`connells and o`halloran to the cross were the clare county management.

as regards the statement which came out which was wholly unnessecary it served no purpose other than to make a mockery of the entire Clare set up.
There were claims about players telling untruths in it and about innacuracies.
well i am certain that they were out when they shouldnt have been
i believe the three of them began their punishment
i believe that another player told one of them that he committed the same offence and i believe the management knew about it.
The two players who had no game time of any real significance decided to through their hat at the bizarre punishment dished out but tots decided to continue because he felt he had a chance of playing and has been vindicated in that when he was brought on as a sub against kilkenny.
I believe that they wrote a letter to the squad which was torn up in front of some people by an individual.
I believe also that the players were informed by text or some other form of media that there was a statement being released and that they had one hour to object if they felt strongly enough to do so.
I feel it demeaned the lot of them that none of them did object but i also understand fully why they did not.
Can you imagine the scenario that would have unfolded for clare when it became clear that this was attempted and the squad was divided and some of them refused to support the manager.

Finally this nonsense about an anti davy Bias that is about the place.

Davy Fitzgerald was the goalkeeper on the first truly great clare team. he was an iconic individual as part of that group that inspired everything that has come after.
He took LIT to two fitzgibbon cup victorys containing lots of clare players and in 2013 he brought Clare to win an all Ireland Title with a team of young players that the county is absolutely crazy about yet in less than twelve months he managed to turn the vast majority of Clare supporters against him from former players to club players to familys of players to ordinary supporters in the street who wouldnt see a hurley other than on the television.
Nobody did that only the man himself. He has engaged in some of the most bizarre carry on in the last twelve months that has ever been seen in the gaa. It is truly depressing as a passionate Clare hurling supporter to think that the recent nonsense appears to indicate that not a single lesson has been learned from the debacle of 2014 when we gave the weakest defence of an all ireland title since the back door was introduced.
of the squad that went to croke park in 2013 there are now as far as i can see 10 players no longer in the squad.
two of those were retirements Patrick kelly is gone to kerry but markham mcinerney the two collins galvin o`connell and o`halloran have all left
Think about that for a second.
all of those players have all ireland medals and were in a squad of really young players that had won a senior title but when they weighed up sticking it out against going they decided to leave for their own reasons.
Kilkenny have lads of 24 and 25 making their team after 5 and 6 years in the squad because they are prepared to stick it out that long.
Clare will not have that because the regime is too controlling and also because the management select from a very limited pool of players in the league.
We have established players playing every single game, we are told its because we have to compete in 1 A yet in two of three seasons we could have put out the camogie team and ended up playing the relegation match anyway.
lads have become frustrated
now on a final note of optimism.
These are very good players.
There have been one or two indications that a relaxation has come
the manager has not behaved poorly on the sideline to date.
If this indicates that lessons have been learned then we have a chance.

Very informative,very honest account in your opinion. I am not by any means trying to resurrect the debacle but through my work I have spoken to genuine Clare supporters and they could reiterate what you are saying. I feel sad for O Halloran and O Connell as it looks like they've been hung out to dry.

LuckyGent88

LuckyGent88 wrote: »

Off to the u21 hurling final now. Hopefully a good game and the wind doesn't ruin the game.
Hon the townies

Disappointing result. Kilmaley by far the better team. Much better hurlers.

windy shepard henderson

shocking scoreline in the end 3-17 to 2-05 , i actually taught eire og were going to win comfortably today , espicaly with the inside forward line they have , kilmaley along with lissyceasy have a huge pick they now are almost partner clubs and have dominated minor level in the last few years in both codes ,not sure how many from lissycasey on that team today but they do make up a percentage of players in all codes for them , also alot of lads from the miltown malbay area try out for them as well underage , so in truth kilmaley have a huge area to pick from taking in there neighbors aswell , eire og has developed a descent record in terms of football under age (and senior ) i honestly taught that this group of players would would change that in terms of under achiveing in hurling , i will be very interested as to see how they perform over the summer in the championship expected more form them especially the second half performance sounds like it was very bad

letowski

Surprised to hear about the margin of the win alright. Infairness to Kilmaley though they have had a good few Clare minors and u21s in the last 3/4 years. They have won the most titles in that age group up along too.

How did Aidan Kennedy play? Im looking forward in seeing him play for the Clare minors this year.

Figerty

letowski wrote: »

Surprised to hear about the margin of the win alright. Infairness to Kilmaley though they have bad a good few Clare minors and u21s in the last 3/4 years. They have won the most titles in that age group up along too.

How did Aidan Kennedy play? Im looking forward in seeing him play for the Clare minors this year.

Aidan Kennedy is the next Shane O'Donnell.. that's how well he played. Outstanding.

caddy16

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

shocking scoreline in the end 3-17 to 2-05 , i actually taught eire og were going to win comfortably today , espicaly with the inside forward line they have , kilmaley along with lissyceasy have a huge pick they now are almost partner clubs and have dominated minor level in the last few years in both codes ,not sure how many from lissycasey on that team today but they do make up a percentage of players in all codes for them , also alot of lads from the miltown malbay area try out for them as well underage , so in truth kilmaley have a huge area to pick from taking in there neighbors aswell , eire og has developed a descent record in terms of football under age (and senior ) i honestly taught that this group of players would would change that in terms of under achiveing in hurling , i will be very interested as to see how they perform over the summer in the championship expected more form them especially the second half performance sounds like it was very bad

With the greatest respect your not clued into the club scene if you thought that , Kilmaley came through the far harder side of the draw. Also kilmaley and lisseycasey have arrangement for years again a town team with huge pick.

windy shepard henderson

caddy16 wrote: »

With the greatest respect your not clued into the club scene if you thought that , Kilmaley came through the far harder side of the draw. Also kilmaley and lisseycasey have arrangement for years again a town team with huge pick.

ah now come on the size of kilmaley is huge on its own , yes i know kilmaley and lissycasey are pretty much all the one going back to the mid to late 90's and as i said before places like kilmihil cooreeclare and miltown have been providing players to kilmaley for a while , and in truth while they might have came through the harder draw eire og did have the more inter county players plus a large number of last years senior b wining team were still under 21 this year

and for what its worth both teams have the same number of participating teams up along and at adult level from junior b junior a inter and senior

Kristopherus

Well done to Tulla for picking up the U-21B title.

Figerty

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

ah now come on the size of kilmaley is huge on its own , yes i know kilmaley and lissycasey are pretty much all the one going back to the mid to late 90's and as i said before places like kilmihil cooreeclare and miltown have been providing players to kilmaley for a while , and in truth while they might have came through the harder draw eire og did have the more inter county players plus a large number of last years senior b wining team were still under 21 this year

and for what its worth both teams have the same number of participating teams up along and at adult level from junior b junior a inter and senior

Kilmaley has a population of around 1800, Big parish but sparsely populated once you go past Kilmaley. No more than Ballyea, Inagh etc. the isolated players do make up some numbers but those guys are hurling since they were 8 or 9.
Eire Og have a big population but never seem to harness it. I wonder should they be getting time to hold sessions in Cusack park at the centre of the town?
I see Cathal Malone has left Ennisytmon to join Sixmilebridge also.