UPC ...Now You Cant Even Go On Hold!?

ytareh

Tried to call UPC.Im a 20meg customer and expect to be upgraded to 30meg seeing as its the same price (assume I may have to extend contract ect ).Also wish to complain about constant mini drops in service -a disaster for gaming .Well now you cant even go on hold ,it just says call back at another time ...!What a disaster of a service !

probe

ytareh wrote: »

Tried to call UPC.Im a 20meg customer and expect to be upgraded to 30meg seeing as its the same price (assume I may have to extend contract ect ).Also wish to complain about constant mini drops in service -a disaster for gaming .Well now you cant even go on hold ,it just says call back at another time ...!What a disaster of a service !

UPC has a monopoly in Ireland. There is no reason why they should answer customer calls from annoying creeps like you - they will just take your money every month, and you can get stuffed!

Arrogant and above the law.

The cable network needs to be unbundled to open it up to other service providers - ISP, TV/Video, voice, alarm/security services, etc.

And it needs to be replaced with fibre to the home. Open to all players in the telecommunications/entertainment industry. Offering 100 Mbits/sec bothways.... engineered to increase to 1 GBits/sec as services and needs develop.

And with no port blocking and anti-VPN blackmail in the terms of service. What anyone does on the internet is their private business. Nothing to do with UPC.

And if they don't want to play ball, time gov.ie sent this nasty American company packing.

Paddy@CIRL

If you want to get the 'free update' to your line speed, go to

http://www.upc.ie/about_us/Price_Changes/Speed_Changes

I had to fill it out a couple of weeks ago to go from 10MB to 15MB

jor el

Paddy@CIRL wrote: »

If you want to get the 'free update' to your line speed, go to

http://www.upc.ie/about_us/Price_Changes/Speed_Changes

I had to fill it out a couple of weeks ago to go from 10MB to 15MB

And it extends your contract for another 12 months.

Also, look at the thread at the top of the forum, upgrading to 30Mbps might not be such a good idea. I'm sticking with 20Mbps on mine, it works, and you really don't need 30Mbps anyway.

com7

How do you make out upc have a monopoly ? last time i heard eircom vodafone o2 meteor irish broadband need i go on supply broadband if your not happy take your buisness elsewhere

dub45

com7 wrote: »

How do you make out upc have a monopoly ? last time i heard eircom vodafone o2 meteor irish broadband need i go on supply broadband if your not happy take your buisness elsewhere

In the cities they are rapidly accumulating power as phone lines become old technology and will only continue to do so. Many people for one reason or another do not want a satellite dish on their home or cannot have one. Their three in one product entices people in - you then have all your eggs in one basket and it is increasingly difficult to go elsewhere. Mobile bb is just a form of glorified dial up and is not a full competitor for dsl or cable bb

Their ongoing attitude to customers, their contempt for Terms and Conditions, demonstrated this month with their failure to comply with a basic requirement of notification of price increases of 20 and 33 per cent respectively in a time of deflation. Their abuse (my interpretation of their actions) of the dd system to accumulate huge amounts of money every billing period for nothing is proof of a company with fascist tendencies to put it kindly.

It is wrong that the cable system going to people's homes should be the property of one company particularly one like UPC.

As Probe states there should be access for all companies to such a network and let the customer choose which services they want.


And can I remind people yet again that UPC contract themselves out of any obligation to their customer and yet expect the customer to keep paying irrespective.

2.2 In supplying the Services we will always use our reasonable skill and care but are
unable to guarantee fault free performance. The Services are provided on a best efforts
basis and we do not warrant that any connection to, transmission over, or results of the
Equipment or the Services will meet your requirements or will provide uninterrupted use
or will operate as required or at any minimum speed, or error free. We can not
guarantee minimum bandwidth delivered to you and we can not guarantee that all data
traffic can be transported complete and without delay. If a fault occurs you should notify
us by contacting our customer management centre. If you are unable to access the
Services, you remain liable to pay all Charges that would otherwise apply.

paulm17781

dub45 wrote: »

In the cities they are rapidly accumulating power as phone lines become old technology and will only continue to do so.

While I agree with most of what you say. I find fault in this. They are a company willing to invest. If they offer the best product (on paper anyway), people will go to them. If other companies were willing to spend the same amount of money, they would not be "rapidly accumulating power".

matrim

dub45 wrote: »

In the cities they are rapidly accumulating power as phone lines become old technology and will only continue to do so. Many people for one reason or another do not want a satellite dish on their home or cannot have one. Their three in one product entices people in - you then have all your eggs in one basket and it is increasingly difficult to go elsewhere. Mobile bb is just a form of glorified dial up and is not a full competitor for dsl or cable bb

Their ongoing attitude to customers, their contempt for Terms and Conditions, demonstrated this month with their failure to comply with a basic requirement of notification of price increases of 20 and 33 per cent respectively in a time of deflation. Their abuse (my interpretation of their actions) of the dd system to accumulate huge amounts of money every billing period for nothing is proof of a company with fascist tendencies to put it kindly.

It is wrong that the cable system going to people's homes should be the property of one company particularly one like UPC.

As Probe states there should be access for all companies to such a network and let the customer choose which services they want.


And can I remind people yet again that UPC contract themselves out of any obligation to their customer and yet expect the customer to keep paying irrespective.

Most BB terms and conditions that I've read include a similar term. And from my experience if you have a fault and report it to them they will deduct the amount of time for the fault from your bill.

dub45

matrim wrote: »

Most BB terms and conditions that I've read include a similar term. And from my experience if you have a fault and report it to them they will deduct the amount of time for the fault from your bill.

Again it is wrong to justify a 'wrong' because other people do it. Others doing a thing does not make it right.

And as people are now finding out who are with Smart irrespective of ongoing practise its what's in the Terms and Conditions that counts. DSL providers have to provide at least a minimum as far as I know UPC contract themselves to supply nothing - yes nothing if you read those terms and still expect you to pay up.

Again I am amazed at how passive people are in not objecting to companies behaving as the the likes of UPC do - it is this passivity that allows them to laugh all the way to the bank while their customers are on hold for hours!:rolleyes:

dub45

paulm17781 wrote: »

While I agree with most of what you say. I find fault in this. They are a company willing to invest. If they offer the best product (on paper anyway), people will go to them. If other companies were willing to spend the same amount of money, they would not be "rapidly accumulating power".

Yes but someone has to stand back and look at the broader picture. UPC have the technology to offer new and exciting products as they would say and others don't for various reasons. I am sure Eircom would love to invest huge amounts of money but for various historical reasons this particular incarnation of Eircom cannot. UPC find themselves in a virtually competitor free area for the speeds they can offer with the technology available to them. They are not investing for their customers benefits they are investing to make more money - which is fine and is the way the capitalist system works. However they are heading towards a monopoly and that is not in the consumer interest even if they were the most benign company in the world.

And their priorities in their investment don't include customer service as you see here all the time.

com7

its ridculous to suggest they are heading for a monopoly , if the owners of eircom had invested the money that they kept taking out and giving to themselves and the staff , they might have a better network now , this is what the previous owners of chours and ntl did they also bled it dry and invested nothing, at least when liberty bought them they put their money where their mouth was ,they still have a lot to do but they re getting there , and outside of the major cities in this country you can nt get their cable service so where s the monopoly ????

dub45

com7 wrote: »

its ridculous to suggest they are heading for a monopoly , if the owners of eircom had invested the money that they kept taking out and giving to themselves and the staff , they might have a better network now , this is what the previous owners of chours and ntl did they also bled it dry and invested nothing, at least when liberty bought them they put their money where their mouth was ,they still have a lot to do but they re getting there , and outside of the major cities in this country you can nt get their cable service so where s the monopoly ????

In the cities of course. UPC will not be interested in other locations. And it is far from ridiculous to suggest that we are heading for a monopoly. Just think a little that's all.

The Eircom case is far too complex to analyse here other than to say that as a country we are suffering the results of appalling Government decisions in respect of Eircom and the glories of the capitalist system which effectively allowed people to come in and destroy Eircom by loading it with debt.

IrishTonyO

dub45 wrote: »

In the cities of course. UPC will not be interested in other locations. And is far from ridiculous to suggest that we are heading for a monopoly. Just think a little that's all.

The Eircom case is far too complex to analyse here other than to say that as a country we are suffering the results of appalling Government decisions in respect of Eircom and the glories of the capitalist system which effectively allowed people to come in and destroy Eircom by loading it with debt.

It is a bit stupid mentioning monopoly, there is nothing stopping other companies building their own fibre networks. UPC is a private company and is not obliged to provide services for the whole country, they spent the money building the network. Also there is nothing stopping the government doing likewise, well except maybe money these days.

dub45

IrishTonyO wrote: »

It is a bit stupid mentioning monopoly, there is nothing stopping other companies building their own fibre networks. UPC is a private company and is not obliged to provide services for the whole country, they spent the money building the network. Also there is nothing stopping the government doing likewise, well except maybe money these days.

The stupidity if there is any, is not realising what is going on. We are going to end up with one company owning the major ''entertainment'' communications network in our cities and that cannot be healthy.

I never claimed that UPC were obliged to deliver services for the whole country. I pointed out that their interest will be in the cities where money is to be made.
The situation at the moment is wonderful for UPC - there is no company offering competition in the cities for the three in one product and with UPC having the only access to people's home for that combination no one will be able to offer competition.

The barrier to entry for any other company coming into a city in the currently climate is huge and I doubt very much if it is going to happen.

How can people not see the monopoly that is developing? Think ahead five years and barring a major surprise who do you think is going to be supplying broadband, tv (and whatever other services tv will be getting used for by that time) and phone services to most people in cities?

People don't want the expense of a telephone line from Eircom particularly when mobiles are so pervasive.

And UPC's recent behaviour shows that we have lots to worry about. Ignoring basic terms and conditions and raising prices for some products by huge percentage amounts. Not to mention the clause in their Terms and Conditions which allows them to raise charges by up to 15% and you cannot break your contract with them.

paulm17781

It's still not now nor ever will be a monopoly. They have fierce competition from Sky when it comes to TV.

If any company wants to roll out a network, they are more than welcome to do so. However, no one else is.

I see where you're going but it is supply and demand. They are supplying the best product and there is demand for it. People have alternatives. No, it is by no means for the customer. It is to make money, that's how companies work. This does not make them a monopoly and as long as there are other companies competing (which there are) they are not a monopoly.

Monopoly:
* (economics) a market in which there are many buyers but only one seller; "a monopoly on silver"; "when you have a monopoly you can ask any price ...
* exclusive control or possession of something; "They have no monopoly on intelligence"
* a board game in which players try to gain a monopoly on real estate as pieces advance around the board according to the throw of a die

</pedant>

dub45

paulm17781 wrote: »

It's still not now nor ever will be a monopoly. They have fierce competition from Sky when it comes to TV.

If any company wants to roll out a network, they are more than welcome to do so. However, no one else is.

I see where you're going but it is supply and demand. They are supplying the best product and there is demand for it. People have alternatives. No, it is by no means for the customer. It is to make money, that's how companies work. This does not make them a monopoly and as long as there are other companies competing (which there are) they are not a monopoly.

Monopoly:
* (economics) a market in which there are many buyers but only one seller; "a monopoly on silver"; "when you have a monopoly you can ask any price ...
* exclusive control or possession of something; "They have no monopoly on intelligence"
* a board game in which players try to gain a monopoly on real estate as pieces advance around the board according to the throw of a die

</pedant>

But only for TV - they have no competition for a 'future looking' two way network (in and out of the home). They effectively have a monopoly on the three in one product.

It is not about supply and demand because the barriers to entry are so high it prohibits competition. So there is most unlikely to be any competition to UPC anytime soon. That is not healthy for the consumer as we see on daily basis with UPC's behaviour. They really have no incentive to provide good customer service because so many people dont have anywhere else to go.

paulm17781

dub45 wrote: »

It is not about supply and demand because the barriers to entry are so high it prohibits competition. .

They have competition. Not a monopoly.

vibe666

probe wrote: »

And with no port blocking and anti-VPN blackmail in the terms of service. What anyone does on the internet is their private business.

afaik, all it says is that "they don't support VPN" (i.e. can't help you with it if it's not working) not that you can't use it. a couple of weeks ago both i and my o/h were happily using two different types of vpn to work from home at the same time without any issues. (a native windows vpn connection for her and nortel client for me in case you're interested). also i've been working from home at least one day every week since i got my upc broadband (and before that with BT) and as long as the connection is up and running it always works fine.

as for port blocking, I only have 1.5gb of data to go before i hit 250gb transferred for this month (on on 30mbps) and am currently torrenting a couple pf public tracker torrents at 2mbps, but managed almost 15mbps on one private torrent yesterday.

in highly contended areas where everyone is heavily torrenting i doubt they have much choice but to throttle them at peak times so that everyone else can use the net, but personally, i have no problem with that at all, i usually download at off peak times anyway.

actually, just checked those torrents again and it's peaking around 4-5mbps now.

and i'm pretty sure that what people do on THEIR network is their business and compared to a lot of ISP's they're actually doing pretty well imho.

weisses

vibe666 wrote: »

in highly contended areas where everyone is heavily torrenting i doubt they have much choice but to throttle them at peak times so that everyone else can use the net, but personally, i have no problem with that at all, i usually download at off peak times anyway.

The flaw in this is that a lot of users (specially on fast connections) are using perfectly legal methods to download large files these days ..mainly in peak times because people get home from work ... problem is that UPC can't even cope now ... what will happen when they release their 120mbps package ??

Its handy for upc to use the torrent mantra over and over to justify throttling but there is more large online content then torrents this day and age

in regards to the monopoly In Holland the main (only) cable operator @ that time was forced by the dutch regulator (OPTA)to open its network for other companies to enter... same happened to the dsl market

probe

dub45 wrote: »

I
As Probe states there should be access for all companies to such a network and let the customer choose which services they want.

Perhaps UPC already see the writing on the wall, and expect to be kicked out of Ireland? Mike Fries*, their President and CEO was at Davos this week, and interviewed on CNBC on Friday.

During the interview he was blowing about the scale of their operations in Europe, and their acquisition of Unitymedia in Germany, etc.

He was preaching the "global domination" we have it all sewn up monopoly message. Buy our shares.... Whether they want internet, videos, TV, phone whatever they have to knock on our door.

He listed every country where they have operations in Europe - except Ireland.

Cable is OK for broadband, when "nobody" is using it. But when subscriber density increases, service sucks.

Ditto for wireless.

While DSL can handle any level of increase in subscriber penetration - providing there is competition in contention ratios (which there isn't in Ireland - eircom still controls over 90% of DSL market and the contention ratios (ie quality of service) because eircom forces its "competitors" to re-sell eircom's bitstream product and has done everything possible to stop unbundling, its speed performance is limited for anyone who doesn't live within a few 100 metres of the network termination point and has a VDSL connection. Eircom has turned "competitors" into the equivalent of the guy selling newspapers at traffic lights. None of these street vendors are competing with the Irish Times, or Indo or anything else - they are just re-sellers.

There is no escaping the requirement for fibre to the premises. It has a long shelf life, is scallable, fast and is low maintenance. It has no line length limits in rural areas.

The expense of installing fibre is greatly overstated by journalists who are working from material written a decade ago.

Numericable in France have 100 Mbits/sec internet + phone on offer for €19.90 per month. Unlimited calls to 53 countries.

Of course they try and up-sell you to subscribe to their 220 TV channels, and 10,000 movies on demand and before you know it you bill goes up to €30.00 or more if you are a movie addict.

But if you stick to internet and phone fibre in France is cheap.

Because the entry point is cheap, virtually everybody signs up in every area served by fibre, and they get economies of scale.

The power of fibre!

http://www.puissancefibre.fr

France FTTH availability map: http://fibreoptique.numericable.fr/

While France has a totally open and competitive telecommunications market, Andorra has a state telecommunications monopoly.

They will have 100% coverage of fibre to all premises in the country by the end of this year. 60% already. They have to run fibre up the mountains to houses at almost 3,000 metres altitude. Their fibre is more expensive compared with France - but still a good deal and 100 Mbits/sec internet.

http://www.sta.ad/ftth/index.html

Sweden has large numbers of FTTx installations in both urban and rural areas - rural in Sweden is often far more remote than Ireland.

In tiny Slovenia, T-2 offer FTTx at speeds of up to 1 Gbits/sec!
http://www.t-2.net/?ctxID=000565&funcID=1

(Google language tools translates Slovenian)

Portugal is being fibred up by http://www.zonfibra.pt

.........

Ireland is stuck with a french? fries monopoly!

* http://www.lgi.com/bio_fries.html

High time Ireland showed UPC/Chorus/NTL the door - and arrange a job for Mr Fries - a job at a McDonalds drive thru.

PS one suspects that the comreg lot might be regretting giving a 999 year lease on the cable TV monopoly in Ireland to the french fries UPC gang a few years ago - however UPC doesn't have a fibre monopoly, and anyone putting in fibre and offering French style numericable.fr pricing plans and speed would make the UPC monopoly license worthless. These *astards deserve to be hanged.

And the useless EU competition and telecom regulators need to look into the entire group - justify their salaries and limos to Brussels airport every Friday afternoon......

probe

If you check out the http://www.puissancefibre.fr website, be sure to click on each of the mini-videos - to listen to the separate stories from the son and daughter, mother and father.

A compelling case for fibre and competition....

Fat_Fingers

probe wrote: »

Perhaps UPC already see the writing on the wall, and expect to be kicked out of Ireland? Mike Fries*, their President and CEO was at Davos this week, and interviewed on CNBC on Friday.

During the interview he was blowing about the scale of their operations in Europe, and their acquisition of Unitymedia in Germany, etc.

He was preaching the "global domination" we have it all sewn up monopoly message. Buy our shares.... Whether they want internet, videos, TV, phone whatever they have to knock on our door.

He listed every country where they have operations in Europe - except Ireland.

Cable is OK for broadband, when "nobody" is using it. But when subscriber density increases, service sucks.

Ditto for wireless.

While DSL can handle any level of increase in subscriber penetration - providing there is competition in contention ratios (which there isn't in Ireland - eircom still controls over 90% of DSL market and the contention ratios (ie quality of service) because eircom forces its "competitors" to re-sell eircom's bitstream product and has done everything possible to stop unbundling, its speed performance is limited for anyone who doesn't live within a few 100 metres of the network termination point and has a VDSL connection. Eircom has turned "competitors" into the equivalent of the guy selling newspapers at traffic lights. None of these street vendors are competing with the Irish Times, or Indo or anything else - they are just re-sellers.

There is no escaping the requirement for fibre to the premises. It has a long shelf life, is scallable, fast and is low maintenance. It has no line length limits in rural areas.

The expense of installing fibre is greatly overstated by journalists who are working from material written a decade ago.

Numericable in France have 100 Mbits/sec internet + phone on offer for €19.90 per month. Unlimited calls to 53 countries.

Of course they try and up-sell you to subscribe to their 220 TV channels, and 10,000 movies on demand and before you know it you bill goes up to €30.00 or more if you are a movie addict.

But if you stick to internet and phone fibre in France is cheap.

Because the entry point is cheap, virtually everybody signs up in every area served by fibre, and they get economies of scale.

The power of fibre!

http://www.puissancefibre.fr

France FTTH availability map: http://fibreoptique.numericable.fr/

While France has a totally open and competitive telecommunications market, Andorra has a state telecommunications monopoly.

They will have 100% coverage of fibre to all premises in the country by the end of this year. 60% already. They have to run fibre up the mountains to houses at almost 3,000 metres altitude. Their fibre is more expensive compared with France - but still a good deal and 100 Mbits/sec internet.

http://www.sta.ad/ftth/index.html

Sweden has large numbers of FTTx installations in both urban and rural areas - rural in Sweden is often far more remote than Ireland.

In tiny Slovenia, T-2 offer FTTx at speeds of up to 1 Gbits/sec!
http://www.t-2.net/?ctxID=000565&funcID=1

(Google language tools translates Slovenian)

Portugal is being fibred up by http://www.zonfibra.pt

.........

Ireland is stuck with a french? fries monopoly!

* http://www.lgi.com/bio_fries.html

High time Ireland showed UPC/Chorus/NTL the door - and arrange a job for Mr Fries - a job at a McDonalds drive thru.

PS one suspects that the comreg lot might be regretting giving a 999 year lease on the cable TV monopoly in Ireland to the french fries UPC gang a few years ago - however UPC doesn't have a fibre monopoly, and anyone putting in fibre and offering French style numericable.fr pricing plans and speed would make the UPC monopoly license worthless. These *astards deserve to be hanged.

And the useless EU competition and telecom regulators need to look into the entire group - justify their salaries and limos to Brussels airport every Friday afternoon......

Very well written. I don’t know if people realize how bad things are here in “knowledge economy”. This goes long way towards showing where we are. Should be sticky.

probe

UPC is now pimping "Fibre Power Broadband" on its website....

http://www.upc.ie/broadband/thirty/

Copycat of http://www.puissancefibre.fr/ in the use of the fibre word, but nothing else.

UPC's suspicious fibre maxes out at 30 Mbits/sec. Methinks they are still using overworked antiquated coax.

Almost as slow as a good ADSL2+ connection.

Has anyone got a fibre connection to their set top box on UPC?

Methinks the FrenchFries gang are waffling rather than providing a proper service.

Their treatment of customers trying to call the company, their quality of service (broadband contention ratios, bit rates, TV picture quality, TV sound quality, etc etc) is appalling.

Time ComReg started to open the market to fibre - unbundled fibre to provide a competitive, fast pipe into every home and business in the country. Let UPC compete or pull out of the market. Stop conning Ireland. Life is too short to expect people to put up with rubbish service.

Tyrant^

Paddy@CIRL wrote: »

If you want to get the 'free update' to your line speed, go to

http://www.upc.ie/about_us/Price_Changes/Speed_Changes

I had to fill it out a couple of weeks ago to go from 10MB to 15MB

Did you already have a fibre optic router ?

Im on 3mb atm with standard coaxial cable... wondering if I will have to buy the router for €50 extra before I can upgrade

dunworth1

Tyrant^ wrote: »

Did you already have a fibre optic router ?

Im on 3mb atm with standard coaxial cable... wondering if I will have to buy the router for €50 extra before I can upgrade

no you wont have to buy a new modem/router before you can upgrade.


its coaxial to your house.and fibre to the node i think

Fat_Fingers

I love the way UPC calls it "Fibre Power Broadband" . Why not also call it "Gigabit SuperDuper Power" coz i'm sure in their data center they are using gigabit switches.

probe

Who knows, FrenchFries http://www.lgi.com/bio_fries.html might even invest a few thousand dollars in a terabit switch - at the hub of his monopoly network.

Fat lot of good (if one may use the word Mr Fat_Fingers) if he continues to use string, bean cans, and other contraptions working at morse code speeds to provide extortionately expensive internet non-service to his victims.

He could call it FriesTeraNet.

And save money for UPC by limiting victim subscribers to watching the main free to air propaganda rubbish TV channels - Fox News, Sky News and CNN. He'd probably get away with it too.

Anyway it is time this backstreet cable TV service had some competition from FTTx. Time the useless EU competition people did the work they are paid to do. Or find another job.