TV faulty and out of warranty - any options?

bazwaldo

After seeing someone mention something about rights for 6 years for a similar situation of mine, I did a bit of searching and found this on askaboutmoney.

When you buy electrical goods they often come with a manufacturer's warranty. Warranties can be very useful as an extra protection or if the retailer goes out of business, for example. But this is in addition to your statutory rights, not instead of them.
So if your washing machine breaks down and you go back to the shop where you bought it, they might tell you to contact the manufacturer and use your warranty.
But let's say your warranty is only for one year and it's now 18 months since you bought the machine, the manufacturer may still be happy to repair it but will probably charge you a fee. Forget it.
The retailer and not the manufacturer is still legally obliged to remedy the situation for you, and so the retailer should provide a repair, replacement or refund at no cost to you.
And for how long can you sing this song? Well, probably longer than you think, although you have to be reasonable and take into account the intended lifespan of the product in question.
Thanks to European legislation (Directive 99/44/EC) you can be sure that wherever you shop in Europe you have at least two years' protection. Bear in mind that this is not a guarantee period but rather the length of time in which you can enforce your rights.
While many member states have adopted this two-year complaint period, it is a minimum standard and so countries are free to have a longer period. In Ireland, under the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980, no limitation period is mentioned at all.
However, as per the Irish Statute of Limitations 1957, you have six years in which to make a complaint, and we can rely on this as the European legislation is in addition to and not instead of our existing legislation.

Of course this is just someones text rather than anything official so I don't know how true it is and what are the limits if it is.

My case:
I bought a TV from Tesco around May 2008. It developed a fault on screen about 2 months ago and is slowly getting worse. Basically there some very dark patches running down the screen at some points. Most times its very visible. I rang Philips and they said it was out of warranty (which was for 1 year) so I forgot about it till now.

If I go to customer services in Tesco I have a feeling I'll be told where to go. And if so I'd like to know my rights and what Tesco should be doing for me. i.e. Repair the TV

Any help appreciated.

slimjimmc

The text is correct but it fails to mention other things such as the expected life of the product can affect the outcome. For example if the item is only reasonably expected to last 3 years then thats the cover you get not 6 years.

As far as a your TV is concerned 2-3 years is not old so I'd be looking for Tesco to sort it out. They'll most likely offer to repair it and they might need to have it inspected it to determine the cause.

_Whimsical_

Under the sale of Goods and services Act 1980 anything you buy should be
a. as described
b. fit for it's purpose
c. be of merchantable quality.

A TV that only lasts for 3 years is not really fit for purpose. You bought a respected brand TV at presumably a price that reflected that. Any reasonable person would expect it to work properly for longer than 3 years. Reasonable expectation is the criteria the small claims court use to assess claims. Your entitlement under your statutory rights is to have any item that does not conform repaired, replaced or refunded. The retailer choses so you will probably be offered a repair.

Unfortunately this all hinges on one thing. Do you have proof of purchase ?
That can be a till receipt, a credit card/laser card statement or a cheque stub that indicates you bought the TV in Tesco. You could check with your back or cc provider to see if they can trace the purchase in the year you bought it if you have non of those to hand. If you have no receipt and no proof that you bought it in Tesco I'm afraid that you are sunk and can't expect any remedy .

EDIT:
It seems almost the same story cropped up on RTE's The Afternoon Show last week. In that case a lady had bought a Philips TV 4 years ago and the screen had recently developed a fault. She bought it in Arnotts in Dublin. When they weren't initially helpful to her she got the consumer advice association involved who pointed out her statutory right under the Sale of Goods Act and the result was that her TV was repaired for her. The various steps she took to find a solution are very clearly laid out here

I wonder if it's the same fault that your TV has developed.Hmm...

Good luck with it. I really REALLY hope you have proof of purchase of some kind.

bazwaldo

This is GREAT!!! I think I have the receipt as I do try keep them for bigger purchases, please God I do. I'll review that Afternoon Show case and find the receipt and report back.

Thanks a million for the replies

EDIT: Found the receipt which is dated 23/03/2008 so the TV is 22 months. Way less than 4 years as in the Afternoon show case so I should be entitled to a repair. When I get to Tesco over the next few days I'll post their response.

wmpdd3

I completely agree with the findings you have made about your rights in relation to the fault with your television.

I can say that there is no system in place for out of warranty replacements or repairs, though I agree there should be. If the television is taken back for repair there is no system in place for the store to pay for the repair (invoice system, credit card etc). If the television is taken back for a refund then the store is at a total loss for the set.

I know this is of no relevance to your claim but it may explain the reaction you get in store. My advice would be to have the fault confirmed in store then write a registered letter to the store detailing how you want the fault rectified under the act above and then when you are told that this is not possible, go down the small claims court route. It is very easy and will be your direct route to a working television.

I think if more customers do evoke this act, which they are more than entitled to and if manufactures don't offer any support after a year, electrical retail will solely return to dedicated electrical stores as apposed to supermarkets as it will be to costly to provide the correct aftercare.

Del2005

wmpdd3 wrote: »

I completely agree with the findings you have made about your rights in relation to the fault with your television.

I can say that there is no system in place for out of warranty replacements or repairs, though I agree there should be. If the television is taken back for repair there is no system in place for the store to pay for the repair (invoice system, credit card etc). If the television is taken back for a refund then the store is at a total loss for the set.

I know this is of no relevance to your claim but it may explain the reaction you get in store. My advice would be to have the fault confirmed in store then write a registered letter to the store detailing how you want the fault rectified under the act above and then when you are told that this is not possible, go down the small claims court route. It is very easy and will be your direct route to a working television.

I think if more customers do evoke this act, which they are more than entitled to and if manufactures don't offer any support after a year, electrical retail will solely return to dedicated electrical stores as apposed to supermarkets as it will be to costly to provide the correct aftercare.

The fact that there is no return process is of no concern to the OP. They have a contact with Tesco and Tesco alone. What Tesco do to sort out the OP's TV is Tesco's problem not the OP's.

All the OP has to do is bring the TV back to Tesco with their receipt. Then calmly explain the problem and their rights under the Sale of goods act. If they start getting the run around then start writing registered letters leading to the Small claims court.

bazwaldo

I called Tesco to see whether I should to go to the store and bring the TV. Firstly she said I should contact Philips. Which I had and was told to contact the repair company and its up to me to pay for it. Then the CS agent started talking about "The Small Claims Court" to which I responded by saying I should not have to go that route as the law in Ireland is blah blah blah so the responsibility is with the retailer sort it out. So now she took my details and is to call the store and get back to me.

I reckon she either won't get back or try to wash their hands. If that happens I'll go into the store. If all fails, I'll go the registered letter and small claims route.

Thanks for all the info.

ch750536

Sorry Bazwaldo, didn't see your request for more info on the other thread.

Lets forget about the law for a minute.

If you buy a TV for €1000 and 4 years later it breaks down & you believe this is due to manufacturing defect.

If you were to approach the people who made the TV and they declined to fix this then you are looking to go to court.

When you are in court what questions are likely to be asked? Certainly one of them is 'how long should your product last for?'

Can you see philips admitting in court that their TV's only have a life of 3 years? The competition would have fun adverts the day after.

This is why warranties were introduced, to fool people into believing there is nothing they can do once the warranty expires. The SOG act simply tells us what we have anyway, the right to expect things we buy to have a reasonable life. The only difference is that the contract is with the supplier rather than the manufacturer.

A few years back I had a TV replaced as I was one of the few people who decided to take this approach with a 3 year old TV (in UK). Playing the %age game, the manufacturers save a lot as 70% wouldn't bother once warranty expired, 20% wouldn't bother to write a letter after a phone call and 5% wouldn't bother with the small claims court. So the 5% who bother to chase this they are happy to give a new TV to, in essence they are saving 95%.

bazwaldo

I think you are spot on with your theory. I'm amazed I have never heard about this "cover" in the SOG act. I've listened to Andrew McCann many times on Newstalk I think it is and never remember hearing anything about this. I'm sure way more people would follow up on their rights if they knew they had some in this regard.

foggy_lad

bazwaldo wrote: »

I think you are spot on with your theory. I'm amazed I have never heard about this "cover" in the SOG act. I've listened to Andrew McCann many times on Newstalk I think it is and never remember hearing anything about this. I'm sure way more people would follow up on their rights if they knew they had some in this regard.

people get bogged down and bamboozled by stores into contacting the manufacturers when things stop working but the manufacturers are not obliged to even answer the phone to you as they have no dealings with you,

as said before the only people legally obliged to do anything for you are the retailer/store where you purchased the item whether it is a €2000 tv a washing machine or a box of matches! apple and many others are great for insisting people contact them but they only offer a one year warrenty on most items where the sale of goods act covers you for the reasonable life of the item. but companies like apple are making too much from out of warrenty repairs to stop this practice.

Elessar

Keep us updated on the case bazwaldo, it's always good to hear how people get on when they try to enforce their rights.

The more we hear about it, the easier it is to help others in the same situation.

If you go into Tesco, be prepared for them to think you are

A) Chancing your arm
Having a laugh
c) Off your trolley

It is unlikely you will get anywhere in person at Tesco because most people are oblivious to consumer law. Despite it being Junior Certificate level education.

I have a feeling it will be registered letter/small claims case for you. But you will get what's due in the end.

sweetie

also if you have lost receipt your credit card or laser details should suffice or
possibly for tescos clubcard might do to prove you purchased it there.

_Whimsical_

Remember also that if Tesco are their usual intransigent unhelpful selves that taking a small claims case is incredibly easy now. You can file the claim online now at www.courts.ie and it will cost you no more than €15. You will have no arguing or fighting or trying to make a big case for yourself either .In your circumstances the facts speak for themselves anyway and I think you'd be assured of a successful outcome.

bazwaldo

Tesco got back to me and have asked I go into the store on Monday when the right people are in. Till then.....

ch750536

Yeah, the hired goons should sort you out.

bazwaldo

ch750536 wrote: »

Yeah, the hired goons should sort you out.

Do they fix TVs?

wmpdd3

Elessar wrote: »

Keep us updated on the case bazwaldo, it's always good to hear how people get on when they try to enforce their rights.

The more we hear about it, the easier it is to help others in the same situation.

If you go into Tesco, be prepared for them to think you are

A) Chancing your arm
Having a laugh
c) Off your trolley

It is unlikely you will get anywhere in person at Tesco because most people are oblivious to consumer law. Despite it being Junior Certificate level education.

I have a feeling it will be registered letter/small claims case for you. But you will get what's due in the end.

Am.... thanks!

axer

foggy_lad wrote: »

but the manufacturers are not obliged to even answer the phone to you as they have no dealings with you,

Except that most of the manufacturers offer warranties anyway that are legally binding thus they do have to deal with you if you choose to deal with them but I get your point that people are fobbed off and told to go to the manufacturer instead way too often.

bazwaldo

Well knock me down with a feather!

Went to Tesco this morning and explained the fault and that I had contacted Philips. And now I'm contacting Tesco as the retailer to repair the TV.

The manager said bring the TV up and they'll send it Philips for repair. And I'll get it back after a week thereabouts. :eek::D

Hopefully it all goes to plan after I drop the TV up. I'll report back again when more happens.

bazwaldo

Dropped up to Tesco during the week to get the latest as I hadn't been called and calling them got nowhere.

They said I had to be refunded so without any delay I accepted that and ran like the hammers before they changed their mind. I'm still in shock.

What I don't understand is why places can sell longer warranties for a premium when you can go back to the retailer for the same warranty or even more. I assume its because they don't know (like I didn't). Or don't want the hassle. Either way I don't understand it. Maybe I just got lucky with Tesco and usually its down the small claims court route.

Anyway I'm delighted and have the enviable task of deciding which BFO tv to buy now

steph1

Great outcome

Thoie

bazwaldo wrote: »

What I don't understand is why places can sell longer warranties for a premium when you can go back to the retailer for the same warranty or even more. I assume its because they don't know (like I didn't). Or don't want the hassle.

Glad it all worked out well.

To answer your question about extended warranties/insurance, etc. the simple answer is "To make money". Companies prey on your risk aversion ("ZOMG, I've just paid a grand for this, I couldn't afford to pay that again if it breaks"), and bank on the fact that you won't do the maths.

Mobile phone insurance is a prime example of this - at a fiver a month you would be better off putting 60 quid a year aside as a contingency in case something happened your phone. Given how many things are not covered under extended warranties and insurances, you're essentially placing a bet with the company that one of a few specified things will happen in a certain period of time.

Income protection is a little bit the same. Everyone worries about losing their job and not being able to pay the mortgage. I start out by talking to you about those fears - what would you do if you lost your job tomorrow and couldn't pay the mortgage? Wouldn't it be great if there was some way you could PROTECT your family, your CHILDREN against LOSING their home. I might remind you that the dole is only €197 a week (but I won't mention other social welfare or healthboard payments you might be eligible for). From just €10 per month!!! (per 100 euro of your monthly mortgage payment) I'll cover your mortgage if you lose your job (once you've been out of work for more than 3 months). If you have a mortgage of €1,000 per month, imagine what an ease that would be to you!

Economists and the UK consumer affairs office are pretty much agreed that extended warranties aren't worth it.

Elessar

Thoie wrote: »

Glad it all worked out well.

To answer your question about extended warranties/insurance, etc. the simple answer is "To make money". Companies prey on your risk aversion ("ZOMG, I've just paid a grand for this, I couldn't afford to pay that again if it breaks"), and bank on the fact that you won't do the maths.

Mobile phone insurance is a prime example of this - at a fiver a month you would be better off putting 60 quid a year aside as a contingency in case something happened your phone. Given how many things are not covered under extended warranties and insurances, you're essentially placing a bet with the company that one of a few specified things will happen in a certain period of time.

Income protection is a little bit the same. Everyone worries about losing their job and not being able to pay the mortgage. I start out by talking to you about those fears - what would you do if you lost your job tomorrow and couldn't pay the mortgage? Wouldn't it be great if there was some way you could PROTECT your family, your CHILDREN against LOSING their home. I might remind you that the dole is only €197 a week (but I won't mention other social welfare or healthboard payments you might be eligible for). From just €10 per month!!! (per 100 euro of your monthly mortgage payment) I'll cover your mortgage if you lose your job (once you've been out of work for more than 3 months). If you have a mortgage of €1,000 per month, imagine what an ease that would be to you!

Economists and the UK consumer affairs office are pretty much agreed that extended warranties aren't worth it.

Not to mention extended warranties that don't include accidental damage (most of them) are completely unnecessary. In practically every case, you are protected anyway under the sale of goods act.

Retailers bank on you not knowing this. And to be honest, a large amount of people don't.

ch750536

Fantastic, thanks for coming back to let us know.

irishpaddy

bazwaldo wrote: »

Dropped up to Tesco during the week to get the latest as I hadn't been called and calling them got nowhere.

They said I had to be refunded so without any delay I accepted that and ran like the hammers before they changed their mind. I'm still in shock.

What I don't understand is why places can sell longer warranties for a premium when you can go back to the retailer for the same warranty or even more. I assume its because they don't know (like I didn't). Or don't want the hassle. Either way I don't understand it. Maybe I just got lucky with Tesco and usually its down the small claims court route.

Anyway I'm delighted and have the enviable task of deciding which BFO tv to buy now

i got onto the people who deal with goods that go faulty after the warranty has run out and they tell me that if i dont get satisfaction from the place i bought the item i can go to the small courts and the judge will decide if you are right or not to get a refund or replacement. ie. if you bought a toaster for €20 and it broke after 3 years he would think you had your moneys worth, but if you bought a tv for €400 and it was knackered after 6 years he may say it should have lasted longer then that. the store will know this and are more then likely to do something if you know it also.

dudara

bazwaldo

Great to hear back from you about your outcome. Well done.

dudara

whiterebel

Well done, OP. Good result

Cabaal

Nice to hear a good outcome, thumbs up to Tesco

donglen

Wish I had known this a few years back. I gave up on a 37inch LG which had practically blown up after 2 years of life (warranty 1 year). Went through the retailer and manufacturer and they both basically told me tough sh*t!
At the time I felt like I was being robbed but gave up as I thought "shur what can you do.........."
I know, I'm an idiot.