New DCC (Dublin City Centre) 30kph limit

Victor

BostonB wrote: »

I know it exists. I just don't know which roads. Its seems to be on one side of Stephens green but not the other. Who know what other madness they've decided on where it starts stops. Will the publicity help a tourist next week? next month, next year.

http://www.dublincity.ie/Pages/Homepage.aspx

New Speed Limit Bye-Laws for Dublin City.

New speed limits recently approved by the City Council will come into operation on 31st January 2010. The main feature of the new speed limits is the expansion of the city centre 30kph special speed limit zone.

* Please click here for full details on the new limits
* The extent of the 30 kph special speed limit zone is shown on the attached map

BostonB

Since when did a map on the internet replace the need for road signs?

Patser

Victor wrote: »

http://www.dublincity.ie/Pages/Homepage.aspx

Lovely. I'll remember to check the internet as I'm driving through Dublin later. Is this the model for the future I wonder, caught for speeding somewhere - 'Ah sure did you not check the Net before you left the house in case things changed, since we couldn't be bothered putting up proper signage, or handing out fliers to commuters last week. Nope we just announced it Thursday evening, put it on the Net and hoped you were paying attention'. Isn't that very like how the Earth is detroyed by the Vogons in 'Hitch-hikers Guide to the Galaxy'

And everyone will have to admit, placing a Gatso Van on the Quays first thing this morning, and also a manned speed check on another part of the Quays (reported elsewhere) is wrong on so many levels. It gives off the image of revenue generation, shooting fish in a barrel. It makes a mockery of Council Chariman's comments on Matt Cooper last Thursday that this would be self-policing after being deirectly asked by Matt will this tie up garda resources.

ian_m wrote: »

GATSO parked on Essex Quay at 7am this morning.

Crazy idea this. All these resources could be better spent elsewhere if you ask me.

Plenty of other things in this city need sorting!

stop

Victor wrote: »

http://www.dublincity.ie/Pages/Homepage.aspx

New Speed Limit Bye-Laws for Dublin City.

New speed limits recently approved by the City Council will come into operation on 31st January 2010. The main feature of the new speed limits is the expansion of the city centre 30kph special speed limit zone.

* Please click here for full details on the new limits
* The extent of the 30 kph special speed limit zone is shown on the attached map

That map is from the early 1990s at the latest!

sideshowbob23

If ye all just drove with consideration for other road users and worked out your route in advance none of this would matter. quit moanin

RobbieTheRobber

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

This is simply another Oirish solution to an Oirsh problem - ie: it's easier to be seen to be doing something about a problem, than ACTUALLY doing something about a problem, so instead of doing things like cleaning up and removing unnecessary signage, sorting out road markings (why for example does a lane vanish unnecessarily as you come down from Hueston station, only to reappear 50 yards later before the lights), and the Gardai doing something constructive about driver behavior (cutting in and out of lanes without warning - although cyclists are the worst for this ironically, driving around at night with no/minimal lights, taxi's stopping wherever they fancy etc).

It isn't an Irish solution this has been piloted in many places around the world and has been proven to work and proven to reduce the number of deaths as a result of car accidents in these areas.

A simple google search will show you how many places in differeing countries all over the world have already tried this and then those changes will be backed up with stats that prove this is an effective and worthwile change.

Patser

sideshowbob23 wrote: »

If ye all just drove with consideration for other road users

I've been driving with consideration for ither road users for years, both for work driving a bus and for pleasure in my car, and I've been driving with consideration at 50kmh, 100kmh and 120kmh of main roads and briefly at 250kmh on a German Autobahn. Speed does not affect consideration to other road users. Having to continually check my speedo might.

sideshowbob23 wrote: »

and worked out your route in advance none of this would matter. quit moanin

I bet going shopping with you is a joy for your family. 'We're heading for Tesco, pass me the map and compass! Quick check the internet to see if the speed limits have changed since yesterday!'

sideshowbob23

wow you just dont get navigation do you!

_Kaiser_

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

It isn't an Irish solution this has been piloted in many places around the world and has been proven to work and proven to reduce the number of deaths as a result of car accidents in these areas.

A simple google search will show you how many places in differeing countries all over the world have already tried this and then those changes will be backed up with stats that prove this is an effective and worthwile change.

I take it you're not a motorist, no?

By the logic above sure why don't we all just walk to work.. that way there'll be no risk at all. Or hang on, someone might mug me, maybe I can work from home? :rolleyes:

Where does it end? Personally I see it as the latest example of the interfering PC tree-hugging nanny-state mentality that has been such a big influence in Irish/UK politics over the last decade or so.

The reality is that this is a quick-fix solution to something that wasn't a problem in the first place. Unless I'm missing something, people aren't being "mowed down" daily by "rampaging 50 km/h motorists" are they??

But it DOES have the effect of being SEEN to tackling traffic management in the city - make no mistake, this is a political and revenue-generating exercise for DCC and the Gardai, nothing more.

monument

Signs are at the start of the zone. The limit does not change anywhere within zone.

Maybe repeaters are needed after the signs on the main routes?

RobbieTheRobber

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

I take it you're not a motorist, no?

By the logic above sure why don't we all just walk to work.. that way there'll be no risk at all. Or hang on, someone might mug me, maybe I can work from home? :rolleyes:

What a crock of ****, just because I dont feel the need to race through a few streets in the centre of the city I dont have a car :rolleyes: and I have suddenly started to try and make everyone stay at home.

Be reasonable and argue the issue not some deluded idea you have of me!

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Where does it end? Personally I see it as the latest example of the interfering PC tree-hugging nanny-state mentality that has been such a big influence in Irish/UK politics over the last decade or so.

Give over this is something that is recognised the world over as being an effective means of reducing deaths which result from impacts with cars in built up or heavily populated areas. Not part of some nanny state but something that is accepted as effectively minimising the number of deaths that result form the impacts with cars

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

The reality is that this is a quick-fix solution to something that wasn't a problem in the first place. Unless I'm missing something, people aren't being "mowed down" daily by "rampaging 50 km/h motorists" are they??

But it DOES have the effect of being SEEN to tackling traffic management in the city - make no mistake, this is a political and revenue-generating exercise for DCC and the Gardai, nothing more.

The reality is this wont affect most people in any real way in getting through he city centre.

popebenny16

this is only the city centre, inst it? As someone who does drive in the city centre a lot i would never imagine going anything like 50kph because of people jay walking and cycling in seemingly ramdon directions. Before any offended pedestrians and cyclists start getting offended I readily admit to doing it too.

It not as if the city centre zone is so massive that going at 30kph between all the red lights and the congestion and stuff will hold you up too long anyway.

_Kaiser_

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

What a crock of ****, just because I dont feel the need to race through a few streets in the centre of the city I dont have a car :rolleyes: and I have suddenly started to try and make everyone stay at home.

Be reasonable and argue the issue not some deluded idea you have of me!

I'm not sure if this means you do or don't drive, but I'm going to assume not (correct me if I'm wrong) if you think that doing 50 km/h down the quays is "racing".. as a test though go out tonight and do this trip at 30 km/h. I think you'll find it artifically slow for the road width/surface, and that you'll spend more time watching the speedometer than the road ahead - which definitely isn't good for road safety.

Give over this is something that is recognised the world over as being an effective means of reducing deaths which result from impacts with cars in built up or heavily populated areas. Not part of some nanny state but something that is accepted as effectively minimising the number of deaths that result form the impacts with cars

Look, as tragic as every death is, the facts are that there are always going to be deaths on the roads - always! And though this government, the RSA and the local authorities would like you to believe that it's "speeding motorists" that are to blame, from my own experience (and I do a LOT of driving), traffic on the quays works quite well most of the time - it's pedestrians darting between cars and totally ignoring traffic lights, and cyclists zooming between them that's the bigger problem in the city centre. All this will likely encourage is pedestrians and cyclists to take MORE of these stupid risks.

I will grant you that Irish motorists have a lot to learn when it comes to things like lane discipline, signalling and courtesy but these measures do nothing to address that, nor will they magically solve incidents where cyclists are run over by trucks turning at junctions.

The reality is this wont affect most people in any real way in getting through the city centre.

I think you're wrong, and by the reaction from people today here and on the radio etc, it seems that most people agree with me. Those that have to travel through the city will ignore it, and those that don't (shoppers, party/pub/cinema-goers) will simply take their business to the suburbs.

Out of curiosity were there any other announcements from DCC today, as I've learned that our government is great at this misdirection (eg: announcing that learner drivers would be taken off the roads overnight while giving themselves a nice raise on the same day).

Spiritoftheseventies

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

I'm not sure if this means you do or don't drive, but I'm going to assume not (correct me if I'm wrong) if you think that doing 50 km/h down the quays is "racing".. as a test though go out tonight and do this trip at 30 km/h. I think you'll find it artifically slow for the road width/surface, and that you'll spend more time watching the speedometer than the road ahead - which definitely isn't good for road safety.


Look, as tragic as every death is, the facts are that there are always going to be deaths on the roads - always! And though this government, the RSA and the local authorities would like you to believe that it's "speeding motorists" that are to blame, from my own experience (and I do a LOT of driving), traffic on the quays works quite well most of the time - it's pedestrians darting between cars and totally ignoring traffic lights, and cyclists zooming between them that's the bigger problem in the city centre. All this will likely encourage is pedestrians and cyclists to take MORE of these stupid risks.

I will grant you that Irish motorists have a lot to learn when it comes to things like lane discipline, signalling and courtesy but these measures do nothing to address that, nor will they magically solve incidents where cyclists are run over by trucks turning at junctions.


I think you're wrong, and by the reaction from people today here and on the radio etc, it seems that most people agree with me. Those that have to travel through the city will ignore it, and those that don't (shoppers, party/pub/cinema-goers) will simply take their business to the suburbs.

Out of curiosity were there any other announcements from DCC today, as I've learned that our government is great at this misdirection (eg: announcing that learner drivers would be taken off the roads overnight while giving themselves a nice raise on the same day).

first day using new system and the lack of signage is very bad. And along quays today a vehicle with dublncity..ie on it ha over taken me on outside lane was already five hundred metres ahead of me by time i turned. Clearly not observing the limit. Left lane of quays basically your slow lane now.

BostonB

Some of these roads are little side streets with cobbles stones.

Others are major transport routes through the city with 2 or 3 lanes either side.

philspector

the reason cited by DCC for the new limits is to address pedestrian behaviour between 10pm and 3am in teh temple bard/dame st area at weekends. They rightly point out that drunken pedestrians wander out through temple bar/dame st wandering amongst taxis/cars.

The council can;t implement a time-based limit so they made it 24/7.

It is a crazy way to deal with a very specific problem of pedestrian management. Some improved policing, pedestrian barriers, marshalling of temple bar visitors and relocation of taxi ranks would address the issue.

The current 30kph limit will be disastrous, discredit speed limit campaigns by the road safety people and generate massive frustration. The limit is implemented in Dun Laoghaire but not policed and is totally ignored. They have in fact made Dun Laoghaire more dangerous for pedestrians in Dun Laoghaire by removing the pedestrianised shopping area and allowing buses and cars to pass through the narrowest streets in the town.

Traffic management in Dublin is a joke. There are poor alternatives to cars and bus numbers have been cut.

CarolLorraine

I'm finding the new speed limit too painful for a city that already has painful traffic so have just set up:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=294459396008&ref=ts

BostonB

monument wrote: »

Signs are at the start of the zone. The limit does not change anywhere within zone.

Maybe repeaters are needed after the signs on the main routes?

My route takes me into the zone twice on the way in, and once on the way home. Depending on the route I take. Repeaters would be good for those (like me) who have done the same route at the same speeds for many years. Its going to take time to re adjust.

KevR

I don't think the 30kmh limit is too unreasonable from a safety or travel time point of view on most of the streets it has been introduced on.

I don't agree with there being a 30kmh limit on the section of the Quays, it should have remained 50kmh there.

Incidentally, how are pedestrians and cyclists finding the increase in emissions caused by the lower limit? I used to get bad sore throats from cycling across Galway City at rush hour when traffic was moving slowly/stop-start.

KevR

philspector wrote: »

the reason cited by DCC for the new limits is to address pedestrian behaviour between 10pm and 3am in teh temple bard/dame st area at weekends. They rightly point out that drunken pedestrians wander out through temple bar/dame st wandering amongst taxis/cars.

In Galway, traffic in the Eyre Square area is always very slow moving (less than 20kmh). As a result, there is a free-for-all by pedestrians who just walk out in front of cars whenever they please, often without even looking. They know the cars are moving slow enough that they will be able to stop in time without hitting the pedestrian. In other parts of the City Centre where traffic flows at closer to 50kmh, people don't dare walk out in front of traffic as they know the car might not be able to stop in time. The either cross at a pedestrian crossing or wait for a big enough gap in traffic to cross safely.

While the lower limit in Dublin might mean less people get seriously injured or killed, it certainly won't improve pedestrian behaviour. It will probably make it worse. The only difference is that the cars will be able to stop quicker and even if someone does get hit, their injuries won't be as bad at the lower speed.

philspector wrote: »

It is a crazy way to deal with a very specific problem of pedestrian management. Some improved policing, pedestrian barriers, marshalling of temple bar visitors and relocation of taxi ranks would address the issue.

Agree! If effort was made to improve pedestrian behaviour in addition to a 30kmh on certain streets then the authorities would have to be given great credit. But the 30kmh on it's own is hardly a great solution.

thebman

I think it makes driving impossible in the city centre but that you can't avoid having to drive there since public transport is a joke that never gets fixed.

So realistically they want people to drive close to city centre and park and walk/cycle the rest of the way which isn't really practical either IMO.

I think a blanket 30KPH zone doesn't make any sense and I don't see why you could have the zebra crossing idea combined with a 30KPH limit for a few hundred metres either side of the crossing.

And then you know get police to enforce the rules we have rather than coming up with daft ones because we can't be arsed to enforce the ones we have.

Spiritoftheseventies

thebman wrote: »

I think it makes driving impossible in the city centre but that you can't avoid having to drive there since public transport is a joke that never gets fixed.

So realistically they want people to drive close to city centre and park and walk/cycle the rest of the way which isn't really practical either IMO.

I think a blanket 30KPH zone doesn't make any sense and I don't see why you could have the zebra crossing idea combined with a 30KPH limit for a few hundred metres either side of the crossing.

And then you know get police to enforce the rules we have rather than coming up with daft ones because we can't be arsed to enforce the ones we have.

would help if pedestrians crossed at the appointed traffic lights. One individual in dark clothing walked straight across me on terenure Road tonight. And where exactly does 30k zone begin and end. No thought gone into to it at all.

BluePlanet

Originally Posted by philspector
It is a crazy way to deal with a very specific problem of pedestrian management. Some improved policing, pedestrian barriers, marshalling of temple bar visitors and relocation of taxi ranks would address the issue.

tbh you sound like someone that's spending too much time in your car.
We are talking about the city centre of a capital city, where pedestrians outnumber vehicles by about a factor of 10. And you expect to marshal pedestrians by corraling them with barriers like cattle?
The city centre should not be some sort of thorough-fare for motorists.
I encourage you to get out your metal box and have a stroll around. The city centre is an unpleasant place as a pedestrian and it needn't be. Indeed just about anywhere they've pedestrainsed has seen greater foot traffic and a boon for shops.
That should be the goal here, pedestrain safety is just a welcome extra in my book. Anything that inconveniences or bans private motor vehicles from the city centre gets my support.

Spiritoftheseventies

BluePlanet wrote: »

tbh you sound like someone that's spending too much time in your car.
We are talking about the city centre of a capital city, where pedestrians outnumber vehicles by about a factor of 10. And you expect to marshal pedestrians by corraling them with barriers like cattle?
The city centre should not be some sort of thorough-fare for motorists.
I encourage you to get out your metal box and have a stroll around. The city centre is an unpleasant place as a pedestrian and it needn't be. Indeed just about anywhere they've pedestrainsed has seen greater foot traffic and a boon for shops.
That should be the goal here, pedestrain safety is just a welcome extra in my book. Anything that inconveniences or bans private motor vehicles from the city centre gets my support.

again no. Pedestrians endanger their own safety by not making themselves visible as I mentioned above.. 40kph is a proper speed and use for all traffic in cities and residential areas. 30kph is too low.

BostonB

No enforcement this evening when I passed down the quays most traffic was struggling to stay at 40 kph. There was no 30 sign where I turned on to the quays either.

Guell72

Bus gate, ridiculous parking fees, now a 30kph speed limit.
Im not going into the city center anymore now. I'll do all my shopping in Newry. Can get there quicker anyway from the North Side.
Well done Dublin City council.

Carawaystick

Where were these supposed green waves?
I went from Tara Street to Aungier St this morning and was stopped at the lights at the end of Pearse St, at College St., College Green x2 and at Aungier St./JJ.Smyths

This evening I was stopped by the lights at Stephen's st/St Great Georges st; SouthGreat Georges st/Exchequer st; Southgreat georges st/Dame st; DameSt/Trinity st; College Green/Foster Place; College Green; College Green/College Street; Fleet St/d'Olier st; and Townsend st/ Tara St. this was every single light I passed I was stopped at. There was no traffic except on Townsend st, and I don't think I exceeded the limit by much or at all.

Green wave me hole

Just had a look at the map, it's completely out of date. When was there a hospital on Peter Street? I thought that was gone to Tallaght a long while ago.
Also when was there a road beside Coppers? not for a long while.

Run_to_da_hills

BostonB wrote: »

No enforcement this evening.

You will have to wait about two weeks to be sure of that.

BostonB

Too true

Dub13

I see the now mandatory facebook group has been setup....

Remove the New 30km/h Dublin city speed limit,I have a Vote

Patser

Carawaystick wrote: »

Where were these supposed green waves?
I went from Tara Street to Aungier St this morning and was stopped at the lights at the end of Pearse St, at College St., College Green x2 and at Aungier St./JJ.Smyths


Green wave me hole

Dublin Mayor was on Matt Cooper this evening about this issue. Said the lights will be reprogrammed soon, so the 'Green Wave' will follow.

However she was unable to say if the Luas along Abbey St is affected by this new speed limit. Abbey St is a pedestrian heavy area, and the Luas is a 'Motorised Vehicle' and the new bye law made no mention or exemption for it.

Also on the show was the Chairman of the Dublin Cycling Campaign (can't remember his name and their website doesn't mention it). Unsurprisingly he was all for it, saying it will encourage a switch to cycling, and I was thinking about this. Will it?

I mean for the vast majority of commuters there will probably be a slight impact - they'll still be stuck in traffic, so little emphasis to change there. So the alternative reasoning must be that cycling will be better and safer, but again will most cyclists who commute notice a difference with traffic still congested.

And I'd genuinely like to ask Cyclists (ok there are a few cheap jibes in here, but I can't help myself), if they were to rearrange problems that deter people from cycling below, where would the new limit fit.

Badly Parked Cars blocking cycle lanes
Car/Taxis/Buses pulling in and out in front of them
Narrow roads with traffic in close proximity
Other cyclists moving slowly in front
HGVs/Buses turning with poor visibility
Sore arse/ poor saddle
Lack of respect from other road users
Pedestrians stepping out
Lack of changing facilities in work, no showers.
Muppets stealing bike, tyres, saddle
Infertility http://www.livescience.com/health/090710-cyclists-sperm.html
Traffic passing at 50 kmh, only at off peak times, now reduced to 30kmh in a limited area

Posy

Dub13 wrote: »

I see the now mandatory facebook group has been setup....

Remove the New 30km/h Dublin city speed limit,I have a Vote

I wondered how long that'd take!!

pfy2k

Don't worry or get annoyed about your stupid Councils 30km/h City centre speed limit. Just head north to Ulster and spend your cash and save money and forget about shopping in Dublin!:D:D:D

AlekSmart

Quote:
Originally Posted by philspector .
the reason cited by DCC for the new limits is to address pedestrian behaviour between 10pm and 3am in teh temple bard/dame st area at weekends. They rightly point out that drunken pedestrians wander out through temple bar/dame st wandering amongst taxis/cars.

Gosh,just shows DCC`s brass neck as I was under the impression that this "Pedestrian Behaviour" issue had been addressed over 20 years ago,by amonsst other things the introduction of the Nitelink service,and a major overhaul of the Licencing Laws.....guess that was so successful they needed a follier-upper.....:rolleyes:

But it ain`t all bad news,as one can be assured that even now the DCC "Team" will be dusting down the oul flip-chart for a tour of major European Capitals as they reveal the secret of Dublin`s incredible success to the stunned forreners......:P

shotamoose

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

And where exactly does 30k zone begin and end. No thought gone into to it at all.

So you haven't even bothered to look up the map that clearly shows where the zone begins and ends before having a good moan? No thought is right.

thebman wrote: »

I think it makes driving impossible in the city centre

How does a 30km/h speed limit in a small area make driving 'impossible'? It just makes it slightly slower - oh the horror!

Some people really need to get over themselves tbh, the world doesn't exist to guarantee you a nice smooth fast drive everywhere you want to go you know.

Cookie_Monster

shotamouse wrote: »

How does a 30km/h speed limit in a small area make driving 'impossible'? It just makes it slightly slower - oh the horror!

Some people really need to get over themselves tbh, the world doesn't exist to guarantee you a nice smooth fast drive everywhere you want to go you know.

It makes it slower, which makes it more frustrating, which makes it more likely for people to do stupid things, which makes it more dangerous.

BluePlanet

I'm wondering what % of these "outraged" motorists actually have to traverse the 30kph zone?

Compared to the % that just don't like the excruciating pain involved in reducing their speed on route to the bleedin Jervis shopping centre.

JimsAlterEgo

Are cyclists covered by this? Any fit cyclist could easily go over 30K!!

seamus

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

Are cyclists covered by this? Any fit cyclist could easily go over 30K!!

No, speed limits don't apply to cyclists. I very much enjoyed overtaking the traffic on George's St this morning.

RobbieTheRobber

shotamouse wrote: »

So you haven't even bothered to look up the map that clearly shows where the zone begins and ends before having a good moan? No thought is right.

How does a 30km/h speed limit in a small area make driving 'impossible'? It just makes it slightly slower - oh the horror!

Some people really need to get over themselves tbh, the world doesn't exist to guarantee you a nice smooth fast drive everywhere you want to go you know.

It doesn't affect them as the average speed during the day on these routes would rarely exceed 30kph. Still though typical Irish behaviour is to moan about any changes and then later to moan about the fact that nothing ever gets changed, gotta love ireland.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

It makes it slower, which makes it more frustrating, which makes it more likely for people to do stupid things, which makes it more dangerous.

Those sound like the behaviours of bad drivers, drivers cant deal with traffic get upset. :rolleyes:

Wibbler

seamus wrote: »

No, speed limits don't apply to cyclists. I very much enjoyed overtaking the traffic on George's St this morning.

From the evidence that I have seen, most of the other rules of the road don't appear to apply to cyclists either.

BluePlanet

Wibbler wrote: »

From the evidence that I have seen, most of the other rules of the road don't appear to apply to cyclists motorists either.

Fixed that for you.

RobbieTheRobber

Wibbler wrote: »

From the evidence that I have seen, most of the other rules of the road don't appear to apply to cyclists either.

So going on this thread the only people who ever obey the rules of the roads are not pedestrains and are not cyclists so that just leaves car drivers.

I dont really know how these car drivers manage to do everything in their cars without having to get out and become either a cyclist or a pedestrian but fair play to them. Next time I want a newspaper I'll try driving my car right to the counter in the newsagent, becasue that must be what every other car driver is doing. :rolleyes:

RobbieTheRobber

seamus wrote: »

No, speed limits don't apply to cyclists. I very much enjoyed overtaking the traffic on George's St this morning.

I dont doubt you passed the traffic on your bike, but i do doubt this was down to you exceeding 30kph on your bike, I think you'd be mad to try and cycle around the city at that speed.

Cookie_Monster

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Those sound like the behaviours of bad drivers, drivers cant deal with traffic get upset. :rolleyes:

Which would include the majority of people on the road tbh.

Cookie_Monster

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

I dont doubt you passed the traffic on your bike, but i do doubt this was down to you exceeding 30kph on your bike, I think you'd be mad to try and cycle around the city at that speed.

why?

What can you possibly see wrong with that?

seamus

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

I dont doubt you passed the traffic on your bike, but i do doubt this was down to you exceeding 30kph on your bike, I think you'd be mad to try and cycle around the city at that speed.

My speedo says different. George's street is actually very quiet in the mornings because it provides no through route to anywhere so it's mostly taxis, busses and delivery vehicles. So I had plenty of room to overtake two taxis who were crawling along.

MJohnston

This seems to me to be up there with putting extra taxes on alcohol to deal with alcoholism and "sorting out" the drug problem by banning it altogether. Sure it'll probably produce the kind of numbers that look good in the press, but what about dealing with the root causes of those numbers?

Safety education in this country is terrible for pedestrians, cyclists and drivers. I'm nearly always in the city centre on foot, and I've seen countless examples (far too many for it to be written off as 'anecdotal') where people waiting at traffic lights will follow the one person who spots a gap and runs across, without even looking at (a) the approaching traffic or (b) the traffic lights. Inevitably this results in braking traffic, bumped horns and frustration, but I'm sure very occasionally it results in deaths too. Just last week I saw a girl simply walk in front of a Luas on O'Connell street without checking behind her to see if it was coming. She only noticed when the Luas driver beeped the horn a few times, but he couldn't stop and it looked like she got her arm whacked by the side of the tram.

I'm only mentioning these examples of pedestrian stupidity because this thread seems very heavily weighted towards blaming the driver. On the bad driving side, I saw a lady last night driving very quickly in the right hand lane on a two way two lane street, then going the wrong way through a roundabout, again at speed. There are plenty of bad drivers, lots of bad cyclists (even more since Dublin Bikes started), but in terms of population, you'll find a lot more silly pedestrians. Cut the speed limit and you'll slow traffic down, making it easier for drivers to react to the stupidity of others, but you won't correct the core causal behaviour.

Jip

BostonB wrote: »

No enforcement this evening when I passed down the quays most traffic was struggling to stay at 40 kph. There was no 30 sign where I turned on to the quays either.

None that you could see, but there was a garda on the south quays at the DCC offices with a speed gun.

And I got stopped at every traffic light from Pearse Street to where I turned off at the James Joyce Bridge, plus traffic from O'Connell Street onwards seemed to be worse than normal.

MJohnston

Oh yeah, and I happened to be in the city centre on Monday morning, at about 6am, to drop off my girlfriend at the Aircoach bus-stop (conveniently located in the non-traffic friendly city centre) why were none of the VM signs used to indicate this new limit? For someone without a TV, I heard nothing about this new limit until I looked up this forum today to find out why my train was 40 minutes late.